Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #18 8/11/10 - 8/13/10

[Bearlyhere]

Here's an excerpt from this webpage:

The Grand Jury, as it has become known in America, has constitutional underpinnings in the United States. Specifically, the 5th Amendment reads in relevant part,

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger. U.S. Const. Bill of Rigths Am. V.

The Grand Jury is intended to act as an independent body, apart from the courts and prosecution, to scrutinize the evidence against a defendant.  In states that have Grand Juries, each state has its own rules regarding a state-empanelled Grand Jury.

The Grand Jury is a body of laypeople who are summoned to court to review the evidence to determine whether an indictment should be issued against the defendant.

Trial juries generally get to hear both sides of the case:  from the prosecution and the defence. However, in a Grand Jury, there is no judge and only the prosecution is able to present evidence. The Grand Jury is also generally a closed process, in that the jurors are sworn to secrecy, and the proceedings are not open to the public or media, as they generally are in jury trials.

**Link embedded**

Sworn to secrecy!  Aren't we getting a blow by blow from the press?

Not from the Grand Jury - I presume from the witnesses, who are not sworn to secrecy (unless a gag order is issued?). Just because we are getting info on what is going on in there, doesn't mean it's coming from the Grand Jury.

That makes sense then.  Thank you.

[d in texas]

VERY good point, amom2!!  Thank you for reminding us of this.  I get so busy in cases at times, I forget that many in society aren't glued to what I find important.  Life has a way of keeping on, the sun rises, etc.  I still tend to scoot down the bench and look at folks sideways who say they've never even heard of Cindy Anthony, for example.      


And to think I used to wait til that certain hour every night to tune into 'Nancy Grace' to get the latest, breaking news.   How many folks are actually doing that, trusting that to be all the latest news there is? 

We need some monkey intervention groups to go out and save people from themselves and NG.   

IMO, of course. 

Hey, thanks Wyks - I know when I get caught up in something, I'm way too "there" and could use a rescue. My husband threatened to join a forum once, under the username "praying for clean underwear."  It usually works better for me when I find some ground inbetween obsesses and vaguely interested. Find out what's happening without the magnifying glass out every moment. Its just hard when this little guy is out there ... I'll never forget the case (what was her name ... Susan Smith ... and I just knew that if she had done ANYTHING at all, it wouldn't be murder. Couldn't be. But it was. I cried, and cried. Sometimes it doesn't pay to get so caught up in something you can do so little about. But I do.

Funny you mention Susan Smith I read her whole story over again along with others to see if I could find some kind of commen denominator in them and TH and what has happened with Kyron, but I can't. 
I can't even link it with CA either.  This one is beyond anything I can comprehend. 
In my gut I believe Kyron is alive, but I leave the option that he is no longer with us in my head as well.
Like you I believed 100% that CA had not harmed Caylee, she couldn't of, she wouldn't of and was so traumatized that she had it upset me to no end.  So I do understand what you are saying.
One thing that I am starting to fear is TH was involved but didn't actually take Kyron, if we believe the reports in the comment sections of links that she passed certain questions pertaining to Kyron.  So why would someone take Kyron "for her", that is where the fear for Kyron sends chills down me that something very sinister has happened in this case.

[Scandi]

@Scandi - ITA - how many ppl were there @ the science fair???...I don't understand this investigation, why it is going this way.  But I heard tonight on Levi Page's show from a lawyer that in OR they have a "time limit" once you are charged to getting a trial.  So that explains (maybe) why the DA has not charged anyone - b/c the judicial clock would start ticking.  But then charge them with a lessor crime (MFH, whatever) - I feel so bad for the family - this cannot be easy!

Hi again,  I heard that on the news a couple of nights ago that there were about 300 people at the Science Fair.  I made note of it as it seemed like allot to me.  Now thinking about that maybe not.  There are the students and all the school staff besides parents and family who come.  Here parents even take off from work to attend school events like this.  xox

See you all tonight.  Let's hope something positive happens today in finding Kyron.

[Bearlyhere]

THE GYM

Could it be that Terri "hitting" the gym on the morning of June 4, 2010 ... one hour prior to heading home ... was all about a meeting consisting of some participants of the conspiracy?  Was there a discussion regarding the transpired event of the past three hours as well as damage control when the anticipated H--- all broke loose when it was revealed that Kyron was missing ... had not attended school that day?

Janet

She may also have had a lot of excess energy she had to deal with so she did not appear too excited when she "found out" Kyron was missing.

[Puzzler]

Could someone remind me how LE found out about the MFH? Was it through cell phone texts?

Seems it may have been, amom2.  It also seems to have been discovered about the same time that first round of questionaires (from school staff/parents/volunteers) were returned and LE had been doing further interviews with those folks.  We were wondering at some point if the LS guy had ever worked at the school, cuz they were doing some landscaping/planning etc.  With all that seemingly going on around the same time, without LE saying exactly what they got from where and when, we get to try and piece together this stuff. 
   

And...the LS guy has a white truck, too.

[Wyks]

http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010/08/my-alternate-theory-about-kyron-horman.html

I thought this was funny.  Even though a possibility in all this mess.  I has been brought up before that KH might have had a bf.  I know...been down that road, done and discussed but this supposed poster named Nancy supposedly 'worked with Kaine' somewhere, sometime.  No specifics just her ramblings.  Apologize if you read this before I posted.  I jumped ahead and posted before looking! 

Question...what is a sheeple?  TIA

Am guessing the safest thing I can say is that until proven true or not, this remains a rumor, a possibility.  As do any hints/rumors of anything else in this case, re anyone else.  We just don't know.  We don't know any of these folks, have no clue what 'could be' the truth.  Only what our own gut feelings on it might be.  Wish we had as many 'facts' in this case as we have 'rumors' stacking up.  lol 

Thanks for the link. 
 

[sebastian]

http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010/08/my-alternate-theory-about-kyron-horman.html

I thought this was funny.  Even though a possibility in all this mess.  I has been brought up before that KH might have had a bf.  I know...been down that road, done and discussed but this supposed poster named Nancy supposedly 'worked with Kaine' somewhere, sometime.  No specifics just her ramblings.  Apologize if you read this before I posted.  I jumped ahead and posted before looking! 

Question...what is a sheeple?  TIA

WOW! Just WOW! I would love to know who started this blog! Does anyone know how you can track that sort of thing down?

[Deenie]

Speaking of Susan Smith - TruTv has had on lately all different shows ..One that I recall of late. (( I am praying that Kyron is Alive))
Women who kill - even those who kill their own children
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/women/women1/1.html
They offer a synopsis of behaviors documented of Women over Men who kill
snip: Even so, it's clear that the motives for women show a range as diverse as that of males:

    * monetary gain
    * ridding themselves of a burden
    * revenge
    * dislike
    * pressure from a gang
    * seeking power
    * following orders
    * delusions
    * pleasure
    * self-defense
    * acting out from a history of abuse
    * sexual compulsion
    * team chemistry
    * psychopathy
    * misplaced mercy
    * depravity
    * rivalry
While people are appalled by women who kill their own children, it's more common than we think. Maternal instinct is sometimes no match for deadened emotions or personal ambition. Similarly, people are shocked when a woman who has professed love for her husband poisons his food or hires someone to kill him, but a woman is just as capable as a man of these crimes. Perhaps we don't recognize them as quickly, allowing women to get away with serial crimes for longer periods, because we don't want to. Yet Hickey's analysis showed that women were involved in serial crimes in some way 38 percent of the time.

[txlisa]

http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010/08/my-alternate-theory-about-kyron-horman.html

I thought this was funny.  Even though a possibility in all this mess.  I has been brought up before that KH might have had a bf.  I know...been down that road, done and discussed but this supposed poster named Nancy supposedly 'worked with Kaine' somewhere, sometime.  No specifics just her ramblings.  Apologize if you read this before I posted.  I jumped ahead and posted before looking! 

Question...what is a sheeple?  TIA

WOW! Just WOW! I would love to know who started this blog! Does anyone know how you can track that sort of thing down?

Someone here said that it was started by 42ndState (OregonLive poster).  Someone with a definite agenda.

[Wyks]

Deene,

Here are the Transcripts from her show. 

http://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1008/11/ijvm.01.html

ttp://archives.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/2010.08.11.html

Thanks seahorse!   

Reading transcripts from these shows are the best insurance policy for my son's widescreen tv.   

[mediamama]

Landscaper Terri allegedly tried to hire to kill Kaine appears before grand jury

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Landscaper-Terri-allegedly-tried-to-hire-to-kill/DsZPsC9z3UujvXc6ZrUh-Q.cspx

link added

What wrongdoing would the landscaper be granted immunity from.  Obviously ... he never went along with any MFH plot.

Janet

That is a good point, but if he is an illegal, wondered if he can get immunity for that?

That's a VERY good question.  IF he can get immunity from being illegal...then I would be concerned he would say anything to get to be here legally.  Could you even trust what he says?  This is a person who has no qualms with breaking the law.

That really bothers me. I'm not even sure if this person is illegal, don't think there is anything but rumor on this, but I could be wrong. But I wouldn't trust what he has to say if true.

I may be going blind, but I couldn't find anywhere in that article that said he's getting immunity for anything. IMO his testimony is going to be just as credible, maybe more so, than anything DeDe might have to say. He has cooperated with LE before being dragged before the GJ. So I don't understand why his testimony should be more suspect than the TerriTubbies'.
And why are people assuming that he's an illegal immigrant?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm thinking that the post that was made about the arrest (with picture of Sanchez and arrested by the U.S. Marshall) said something about being "illegal".

Does any other monkey recall?

Here at Blink's... http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/14/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-landscaper-rudy-sanchez-knew-kyron/#more-4266

Several of us had speculated over there that because the booking doc noted it being a USM hold (US Marshalls), illegal immigration charges were involved. As far as anything beyond speculation, I've seen nothing.

[Grey]

Just for the sake of asking ..

Does anyone know if Terri adopted Kyron? legally ?  Or was Desiree paying child support for Kyron? to Kaine ?  I don't know how that works? Like say if Kyron needed Medical attention would Desiree override Terri? in the case of an emergency ? Was it not Desiree that was called when Kyron was missing/ call placed from the school. I'm confused. What would Terri be able to do without Desiree's approval ? Would not all " important" issues " Of Kyron"  have to be presented for Desiree's approval ..first? 
Hypothetical
Like if Terri wanted to take Kyron, out of state, for instance on a trip? Say with James.
( before Kiara was born) Wouldn't she have to have Desiree's approval ?  Or would it be enough that she had Kaine's approval ?

Though Kaine has primary custody of Kyron, decisions would be shared, but the types of independent decisions would depend on their custody agreement.

Desiree is Kyron's mother. Only Desiree and Kaine have parental responsibility over Kyron.

Grey, forgive me, but SM was the custodial Mum, would that change things in decision making?

Terri is the stepmother with no rights. Desiree is the mother.

Working with Kaine, Terri would have everyday decision-making (what's for dinner), but nothing major. I don't know how Kaine and Terri worked together, but theoretically she would carry out Kaine's decisions.

I neglected your question about Terri adopting Kyron. She could only do so if Desiree agreed and signed away her rights to Kyron. We know that has not happened since Desiree was still having weekend and holiday custody of Kyron. I doubt Desiree would have ever considered signing away her rights to Kyron.

People have questioned why Desiree did not try to regain primary custody of Kyron. When she returned to Oregon, she was deeply in debt and probably recuperating. Once she got on her feet, the decision might have been made to leave things as they were at the time rather than disrupt Kyron's life. He's still a little boy, and she frequently had him with her. Last year she had him for half the summer vacation, and the same was planned for this year (Dateline interview?)

[amom2]

Could someone remind me how LE found out about the MFH? Was it through cell phone texts?

Seems it may have been, amom2.  It also seems to have been discovered about the same time that first round of questionaires (from school staff/parents/volunteers) were returned and LE had been doing further interviews with those folks.  We were wondering at some point if the LS guy had ever worked at the school, cuz they were doing some landscaping/planning etc.  With all that seemingly going on around the same time, without LE saying exactly what they got from where and when, we get to try and piece together this stuff. 

And...the LS guy has a white truck, too.

Thx Wyks - and Puzzler - Interesting tidbit that the LS had a white truck. Probably an alibi too, or I imagine LE would be all over that, with him as an accomplice like they're doing with DeDe.

[klaasend]

http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/DeDe-Spicher-99077874.html

DeDe, Terri unaccounted for at same time on June 4

by Frank Mungeam and Colin Miner, KGW.com Staff
Posted on August 12, 2010 at 12:07 PM
Updated today at 12:41 PM


PORTLAND, Ore. -- DeDe Spicher and Terri Moulton-Horman were both unaccounted for during the same period of time the day Kyron Horman disappeared, based on information revealed by investigators and on information from KGW sources.

Sources tell KGW that DeDe Spicher, a close friend of Terri's, was doing gardening work not far from the Horman family home on the day Kyron disappeared, but was unaccounted for during a three-hour period from 10 a.m. to 1 p.m. She could not be reached by cell phone during this time either, according to sources.

Sources also tell KGW that, during the period of time DeDe was unaccounted for, her car remained at the property where she had been gardening. According to sources, that detail is significant because, if DeDe left the property as investigators believe, she would have had to leave in another vehicle.

 

[Nana29]

http://alternate-theories.blogspot.com/2010/08/my-alternate-theory-about-kyron-horman.html

I thought this was funny.  Even though a possibility in all this mess.  I has been brought up before that KH might have had a bf.  I know...been down that road, done and discussed but this supposed poster named Nancy supposedly 'worked with Kaine' somewhere, sometime.  No specifics just her ramblings.  Apologize if you read this before I posted.  I jumped ahead and posted before looking! 

Question...what is a sheeple?  TIA

Am guessing the safest thing I can say is that until proven true or not, this remains a rumor, a possibility.  As do any hints/rumors of anything else in this case, re anyone else.  We just don't know.  We don't know any of these folks, have no clue what 'could be' the truth.  Only what our own gut feelings on it might be.  Wish we had as many 'facts' in this case as we have 'rumors' stacking up.  lol 

Thanks for the link. 
 

Sheeple= sheep+people...as in blindly following without using your own noggin...etc

[Tamikosmom]

So many aspects of Terri Horman's character reflects that of Casey Anthony.

Thanks Deenie.  I have been looking for the following quote for some time now.

Janet


++++++++

Kyron’s Parents Describe Web of Deception from Stepmom (With Audio)Saturday, July 10th, 2010

Young says Terri Horman was a frequent liar about matters large and small.

“She can’t even tell the truth about her divorce or, you know, how she met Kaine, any of that,” Young says. “Silly little things. Stories about Kyron getting stung by a bee she can’t even tell the truth about.”

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/2010/07/10/kyrons-parents-describe-web-of-deception-from-stepmom/

[Patricia Mocha Latte]

http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/news/topstories/story/Landscaper-Terri-allegedly-tried-to-hire-to-kill/DsZPsC9z3UujvXc6ZrUh-Q.cspx

LINK

You know, I have just a many thoughts of Terri being involved in Kyron going missing as most everyone else.  But, still, I have a problem with the LE/press in painting a picture for us that is so anti-Terri.

Words make a difference.  Simple example: open this link and the message from the press - According to retired Portland Police Capt. C.W. Jensen, the grand jury is looking at this “because it paints them a picture of Terri's character’.

Sounds like this GJ was formed to “only” look at Terri’s character.

Then the press makes a quote of what was actually said:  "What you are doing in a grand jury - in an investigative grand jury - is you are painting a picture of everyone and you want to have all four corners of the page and so that’s what you’re doing here," Jensen said.

Now, THAT makes much more sense of why a GJ is formed.  Not just to paint a picture of Terri, but to investigate everyone involved and have all for corners of the page (a well-rounded picture of what happened).  A well-rounded picture is the way to make appropriate conclusions.

Too late, most readers have already read that the GJ was formed to paint a picture of Terri and that’s what’s remembered.

I, too, think Terri is guilty of something…but I could be wrong. 

Whatever…Kyron is missing and I’m getting really concerned that some avenues could be overlooked when the public is being fed what they’re to believe.

EXACTLY, Puzzler!  Well said.  This is what I've tried saying before, didn't have the example of the GJ tho.  Some folks have seemed to overlook the sentence I've included, something to the effect that I do believe Terri had some involvement, to what degree I dunno.  Overlooking the mention of that, or negating that entirely with the rest of what I and others have posted, some to the point of calling me and other 'Terri supporters' and/or 'Kaine haters'.  And am like WTF???????????  Am the farthest thing from either!!!!!   

I do believe that we the public are being spoon-fed ad nauseum what LE/media/others WANT us to believe.  Sometimes it has been subtle, at other times not so subtle.  Am very glad that some are beginning to see this as well.  It just has me (not only still thinking that Terri has some degree of involvement).. but also looking at wth else seems to be going on in this case.   That's all I've ever tried doing.  And feel like I've been dragged thru the wringer, blamed, shamed, ridiculed for having done so.  No matter.  I still feel the same way.  And am glad that others are beginning to see some of it. 

   

Well said Wyks. I have had to distance myself from this case for the very same reasons. It's unacceptable to me not to look at all possibilities, after all a little boy it still missing and needs to be found. Period.
I love the quote Klaas has on her siggy line of Darla IIRC saying something to the effect of, I am not here to stroke someones ego, I am here for the Children.
That pretty much sums it up quite nicely for me as well.

...Back to lurking now. 

[Deenie]

More from Trutv: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/women/women1/5.html

Interesting

Female Psychopathy
Book: Savage Spawn

In Savage Spawn, Jonathan Kellerman states that male psychopaths outnumber females eight to one. Yet the voluminous literature on psychopathy focuses primarily on males, so little can really be said on the subject until assessment levels are more comparable. Childhood psychopaths (males) get far more attention than female psychopaths.

Basically, psychopaths exhibit callousness, impulsivity, shallow emotions, superficial charm, and no remorse for what they do. They're narcissistic and manipulative, and tend to seek stimulating activities like crime. They fail to learn from punishment, so they're well-represented among repeat offenders. When intelligent, they're generally persuasive and charismatic, and they can get people do to almost anything. They have no regard for truth, although they can evince complete sincerity, and they're looking out only for themselves. They generally form no long-range plans and fail to take responsibility for their deeds. Robert D. Hare's Without Conscience offers a comprehensive description of his work among male psychopaths in prisons.

The authors claim that recent estimates indicate that "severe" psychopathy among women is rare, about one-third of the estimated prevalence for men. Relying on the social history and personality profile of 30-year-old "Ms. X," the authors found among her symptoms an early onset of antisocial behavior, evidence of sexual aggression, multiple substance abuse, and sexual perversion. She also showed fluctuating levels of reality testing when emotional, but no problem with impulsivity—considered a central trait of psychopathy.

No wonder people assume that what drives women to kill is a mystery—in particular, those women who assume the role of caretakers of the most vulnerable among us. It's striking that among nurses and midwives, there have been so many killers, but even more striking are those who have motives other than mercy for their deeds.

 

[Blonde]

TODAY show

video

Cops Still Searching For Witness In Kyron Horman Case

DeDe Spicher's Ex-boyfriend


http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/261848...73392#38673392

[Patricia Mocha Latte]

TODAY show

video

Cops Still Searching For Witness In Kyron Horman Case

DeDe Spicher's Ex-boyfriend


http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/261848...73392#38673392

Blonde the link doesn't work. Did you happen to get the name of Dede's ex-boyfriend?
tia