Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #22 8/19/10 - 8/21/10

[Tracygirl]

I found something else in the article interesting..Terri has or had been collecting unemployment for two years.

DDS was also on unemployment.

They seem to have many things in common.  Could it be that in Feb to March of 2009 they became closer friends?  Since they were not working they would have had more time to get together during the day during the week..pursue commoon interests.

I'm saying this because Kaine didn't seem to know much about DDS, neither did JW seem to know Kaine and Terri.  Yet they have to be very good friends for DDS to stay with Terri after Kaine left and for Terri's parents to ask her to stay with their daughter.  You just wouldn't ask an acquaintance to do that..particularly under theses circumstances.

I still feel that DDS is involved in this somehow..as well as both Sanchez relatives.

You will love this quote from Blink regarding Dede:

I do not usually say this, but in the interest of disclosure I feel I must.

Dede absolutely creeps me out. I mean, everything about her. No malice intended, and I cannot put my finger on it.
B

She says Dede reminds of Kathy Bates character from Misery.

lol thats funny.

[txlisa]

What agenda does Kaine have besides seeing his son returned safely to him?  Please tell me, I would really like to know!

I cannot speak for Kaine Horman.  You would have to ask him this question.

Okay, well I take it that his only agenda is getting his son back. 

Well I think it is fair to say that Kaines opinions right now are a little slanted. He is upset with Terri and blaming her for his son having gone missing. I am not saying he has this right or not, 

And who could blame him for being upset with Terri.  I mean she only tried a hire a landscaper to kill her husband.  I am just not seeing this big conspiracy to railroad Terri.  At the beginning of the Caylee Anthony case there were quite a few people who thought that Casey was being railroaded.  We all saw how that turned out.  The focus is on Terri because she was deceptive with LE from the get-go.

[txlisa]

Sorry, I have to disagree with the discipline thing.  I think what Terri wanted Kaine to do was excessive and not necessary.

Well I disagree with you completely. She was parenting Kyron.

That's cool. 

[Tracygirl]

  I come in peace...(gingerly stepping into the pond),

I just finished reading that whole article and then came on here and I must say it's truly fascinating to have read something and then read the different points of view on the same article.

What some report reading is not how I comprehended it at all.  Who's right?  I think everyone is.

When I read that article I see some truth but mostly I see a slant from ex-people in her life.  The interview with Eker's parents?  Come on...the mother states that Terri 'wanted our son'.  Sounds like some old farmhouse, golden child, bible thumping going on there.  Like, "Ohhhh that evil red headed woman come to da house to steeeel our Jimmy away!!!! She's eveeeel I say, !!"

The part about how Terri 'pushed' their son into adopting James nearly made me ill.   This man KNEW she had a child, THEY knew she had a child.  This was known going into the marriage and if the biological father couldn't support the child and this new family they made together was working I can sure see how the idea would be to adopt the boy, form a new family unit and move on from there.  But to me, to read it from the elder Ekerts you might think their sonny boy was just some hapless DUPE who was sucked in by this red headed siren with a CHILD, (gasp) from a previous relationship...How DARE she wear a WHITE wedding dress?


In the end here I don't think we all will ever agree and I don't know that we should.  I do know that I SINCERELY HOPE with all my might that NOTHING in my life ever happens so that people come to interview all my former 'friends' and neighbors and ex husbands!!  Good grief like that's not a biased view point from the get go.

I don't know I think Eckert's parents had her pegged from the get go.

His mother was conned I think. But bottom line, they were right to question her motives. The woman is manipulator and her actions later showed that she probably did push Ecker into adopting James--mo' money, mo' money, mo' money! I wouldn't surprise me to learn she was also getting unofficial financial support for James from Tarver. In reading that article, I don't see how it's possible to gloss over all the negative and just see the positive in Terri. No matter how positive the press, wouldn't the negative stuff thrown in here and there be like hitting a brick wall and make one question the validity of the positive stuff? I don't think a vice-versa situation has the same impact.

I just can't get over how hard people will try to put a positive spin on this woman!  At worst, Terri disappeared Kyron.  At the very least, she is a self centered narcissistic who does not take account the feelings of others.

I can understand wanting to be unbiased in an assessment of all of the parties involved, but I agree with Tx and Scatty. It seems that there are those who insist on trying to make TH appear to be a saint while vilifying anyone who reports information that refutes this saintly image. It wasn't only ex-husbands and in-laws that reported some disturbing TH behaviors that fall outside the norm, some were reported by those peripheral to the investigation who seem to have no reason to distort the truth. Also, those closest to the investigation shared both positive and negative behaviors that were noticed over time (including Kaine). It's hardly unbiased to cherry pick information and only attend to that which supports your own opinion. I am also growing weary of an attempt to paint Kaine as the devil incarnate and that anything negative that Terri did was most likely because of Kaine. While obviously not perfect, Kaine is not the one who caused this tragedy. To imply that he could have prevented it if he were only more aware or involved in his home life seems overly punitive IMO and is not supported by the entire body of information presented by sources thus far.

That said, the only thing I know for certain is that a beautiful child did not get what he deserved. Where is Kyron???

I don't think anyone here is making her out to be a saint, but perhaps not wanting to hang her for everything that comes out against her.

[seahorse]

I have to say that again reading that article, there isn't anyone that said she wasn't good with kids or her kids  So what all happened along the way.....

Hi NoRose & Monkey's,

Ted Bundy was a good son. 

And good looking as well, but there were signs, troubling signs with Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer growing up. I just don't see no comparison to Terri.

NoRose,

We don't know if there were signs for SM?  My aunt adopted two children, one was a rotten egg, the other child turned out good. I really believe it is in the genetic, I really, really, do.   Someone will look up SM natural parents, I don't think it is that
difficult, eventhough it was a closed adoption. I can almost find them, because, her Bio-Mums, surname, "Kisiel" is so rare.
I can't do Genealogy right now because I have obligations, I am sure an investigative report could locate both parents.

And even when a couple has several of their own children, two can turn out good, and the third one is the rotten egg, though they were all raised the same, I just don't know. It sure sounds like since Terri was the only child she was spoiled, well so was I the only child, and I think that my parents spoiled me also.

No Rose, you were probably spoiled, but not spoiled rotten.

NoRose,

 Suzy is talking Pittsburghese. 

[Gypsy DD]

http://www.bop.gov/iloc2/InmateFinderServlet?Transaction=NameSearch&needingMoreList=false&FirstName=anselmo&Middle=&LastName=sanchez-sanchez&Race=U&Sex=M&Age=28&x=61&y=15

per the link above Anselmo is still at the Federal facility in Sheridan..for an unspecified length of time.  He has not been transferred from there.

[no rose colored glasses]

Tracygirl's post   
I don't think anyone here is making her out to be a saint, but perhaps not wanting to hang her for everything that comes out against her.
That is what I'm doing.

[melisb]

I have to say that again reading that article, there isn't anyone that said she wasn't good with kids or her kids  So what all happened along the way.....

Hi NoRose & Monkey's,

Ted Bundy was a good son. 

And good looking as well, but there were signs, troubling signs with Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer growing up. I just don't see no comparison to Terri.

NoRose,

We don't know if there were signs for SM?  My aunt adopted two children, one was a rotten egg, the other child turned out good. I really believe it is in the genetic, I really, really, do.   Someone will look up SM natural parents, I don't think it is that
difficult, eventhough it was a closed adoption. I can almost find them, because, her Bio-Mums, surname, "Kisiel" is so rare.
I can't do Genealogy right now because I have obligations, I am sure an investigative report could locate both parents.

And even when a couple has several of their own children, two can turn out good, and the third one is the rotten egg, though they were all raised the same, I just don't know. It sure sounds like since Terri was the only child she was spoiled, well so was I the only child, and I think that my parents spoiled me also.

No Rose, you were probably spoiled, but not spoiled rotten.

I wasn't spoiled rotten, and did have to pay for my consequences if I did something wrong. Was spoiled by parents and two sets of grandparents, but not just with personal items, a lot of love also.  Which makes me wonder how exactly Terri was raised, we really don't know a lot about her parents.

Not knowing the situation in which TH was adopted out of we can only guess her adoptive parents did what was normal for a child of 7...they loved her lots and spoiled her is all I can imagine.  But as usual we don't know anything.   It happens all the time and they are prolly really nice people who gave her everything she wanted.  Apparently they contine to do so.  Blink saying that the Horman's lifestyle choices have something to do with Kyron's disappearance makes me think harder now.  How do all these people get so close for so long yet the man you are married to knows absolutely squat about his wife???  Too damn weird for me.  Did they live together but completely seperate?  They obviously had sex...well for sure once in the last 2 years.  Did they agree to stay together for the children and their marriage was kaput?  There is something super weird about that relationship and did it have an effect on what happened to Ky?  That is the most important question.  The more we learn about the supposed playes in this the more it sends us back into the home asking questions.

[Tamikosmom]

I am trying to be objective. I think there is still a possibility that Terri is a completely horrible person but didn't do anything to Kyron.

Tracygirl

My suspicion gleaned from the words of Desiree Young, Kaine Horman, Ron Tarver and Richard Ecker as well as media unnamed "credible sources" is that Terri was a good and loving mother up until the birth of Kiara ... a good and loving mother who DID do something that resulted in the disappearance of Kyron.

Janet

+++++++

Kaine Horman: "Terri was a good person when we first met"
Posted on July 16, 2010 at 12:12 PM
Updated today at 1:56 PM

In his response to questions from KGW, Kaine acknowledged that people have commented about 'how could he marry a woman like this' and how could he 'not see this coming.'

In response, he wrote: "Terri was a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did."

"Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now," added Kaine Horman.

"There were some signs of emotional distress here and there over the past year and a half but not enough of that directed at any one person to conclude she would be capable of anything even remotely close to events of the severity we have all seen."

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-was-a-good-person-when-we-first-met-98620944.html


Kyron Horman's blended family: Friends describe a close, supportive group
Published: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 5:36 PM
Updated: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 6:46 PM

According to friends and family, the Hormans are a tight-knit, loving family that enjoys doing things together.

They play board games, go bowling with friends and take trips. In 2009, they visited Walt Disney World in Orlando, Fla. Late last year they went to the Roloff Farm in Helvetia where the reality TV show "Little People, Big World" is filmed. And recently, they peered at the animals at the Oregon Zoo.

Terri volunteered at Skyline School, where Kyron was in second grade, and she took him to swimming lessons with James and with Kiara.

"They're very nice people," said Adam Farber, who runs a swimming school and taught Kyron to swim and worked on strokes with James. Farber had no idea until he went missing that Kyron was Terri's stepchild. "They all fit in really well." ....

Family and friends say she is a focused mom.

"She's a pretty attentive mom," said Tarver, her first husband.

Her second spouse, Richard Ecker, has kind words to say about her as well: "She was always a gifted teacher. She did as much for the school and the kids as she could."

He couldn't imagine his ex-wife doing anything to harm a child.

"She would never hurt a child," he said. "She's not wired that way."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

[txlisa]

I have a son the same age as Kyron and constantly disciplining him for every little thing he might do wrong would have the opposite effect.  I just don't see it as necessary.  I talk with my son and discuss his day at school and go over things he could have done differently.  Punishments are saved for things that are really bad.

[seahorse]

I found something else in the article interesting..Terri has or had been collecting unemployment for two years.

DDS was also on unemployment.

They seem to have many things in common.  Could it be that in Feb to March of 2009 they became closer friends?  Since they were not working they would have had more time to get together during the day during the week..pursue commoon interests.

I'm saying this because Kaine didn't seem to know much about DDS, neither did JW seem to know Kaine and Terri.  Yet they have to be very good friends for DDS to stay with Terri after Kaine left and for Terri's parents to ask her to stay with their daughter.  You just wouldn't ask an acquaintance to do that..particularly under theses circumstances.

I still feel that DDS is involved in this somehow..as well as both Sanchez relatives.

You will love this quote from Blink regarding Dede:

I do not usually say this, but in the interest of disclosure I feel I must.

Dede absolutely creeps me out. I mean, everything about her. No malice intended, and I cannot put my finger on it.
B

She says Dede reminds of Kathy Bates character from Misery.

lol thats funny.

  DDS "bug eyes" I find creepy. 

[nicubird]

Sorry, I have to disagree with the discipline thing.  I think what Terri wanted Kaine to do was excessive and not necessary.

Well I disagree with you completely. She was parenting Kyron.

Do you feel it is reasonable to expect perfect behavior in the classroom every day? There are 4 colors of cards. If my (or any other child) had perfect behavior every single day in the classroom, I would find that to be a little strange. We all want our children to be perfect, but if a child gets 29 greens and one card that is the step lower than a green, do we ground them for that (if so, then for how long)? My point is we all have varying parenting styles. There is usually more than one way to get from point A to point B; however, expecting perfection from a child can set up just as many issues as allowing chaos to rule IMO. I have no idea if Terri was too punitive or expected perfection from Kyron. If she wanted excessive consequences for any behavior that was one iota less than perfect, that could be an indicator of other issues. All I can reasonably discern from the article is that Kaine and Terri did not agree on the management of these cards nor on the potential consequences.

[Tracygirl]

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!  I have read comments about where are Kaine and Desiree and why aren't they talking.  Could it be because people are accusing them of trying to railroad Terri and control information about this case?  Damned if they do, damned if they don't!

I was thinking about why they have not come out to talk and I remembered that Desiree was dreading August to come around without Kyron being found because she had plans for them to go on vacation. We have seen Kaine, but not desiree and I really do feel she is just in so much pain she can't put two words together. My prayers go out to her, everyday I pray that God will wrap his arms around her and protect her heart.

[nana0567]

Eckert's parents either had Terri pegged, or no woman would have been good enough for their son. Many parents have conflicts with who their child marries. I know that I have kept quiet so not to rock the boat with one of my daughter's choices, don't want to say anything because I dearly don't want to lose her. So it could be looked at both ways.

But hindsight is 20/20 and in hindsight, Terri did some peculiar stuff to Eckert concerning child support and calling the Sheriff's Office on him after pretending to be all understanding when he questioned the child support increase. And he's still paying support, but James is living with Tarver, his bio dad! That is so unfair.

Not only unfair doesn't make sense to me, but he did adopt James, don't really know the legal workings on how this all goes. 

I used to work in the Family Support division of the DA's office, and every now and then saw situations like this. I had no respect for those women that saw these men as just meal tickets. Ecker needs to go back to court and try again. But I think he's just too decent to do that to James. He needs to realize that James already has 2 other fathers, and the only one he has no contact with shouldn't be the one to pay. He may not win though. It's a crapshoot, depending on the state.

Tarver signed away his rights to his son and then Ecker who was married to Terri at the time adopted him. James then became Ecker's responsibility to financially support him until he is 18. I would think if James is going to continue living with his bio-dad that he (Tarver) should support him....but who knows maybe the adoptive father wants to continue supporting him.

[Tracygirl]

What agenda does Kaine have besides seeing his son returned safely to him?  Please tell me, I would really like to know!

I cannot speak for Kaine Horman.  You would have to ask him this question.

Okay, well I take it that his only agenda is getting his son back. 

Well I think it is fair to say that Kaines opinions right now are a little slanted. He is upset with Terri and blaming her for his son having gone missing. I am not saying he has this right or not, 

And who could blame him for being upset with Terri.  I mean she only tried a hire a landscaper to kill her husband.  I am just not seeing this big conspiracy to railroad Terri.  At the beginning of the Caylee Anthony case there were quite a few people who thought that Casey was being railroaded.  We all saw how that turned out.  The focus is on Terri because she was deceptive with LE from the get-go.

I think they honestly believe Terri is responsible. If that is true or not that is another story, but from their hearts, they believe this.

[txlisa]

Sorry, I have to disagree with the discipline thing.  I think what Terri wanted Kaine to do was excessive and not necessary.

Well I disagree with you completely. She was parenting Kyron.

Do you feel it is reasonable to expect perfect behavior in the classroom every day? There are 4 colors of cards. If my (or any other child) had perfect behavior every single day in the classroom, I would find that to be a little strange. We all want our children to be perfect, but if a child gets 29 greens and one card that is the step lower than a green, do we ground them for that (if so, then for how long)? My point is we all have varying parenting styles. There is usually more than one way to get from point A to point B; however, expecting perfection from a child can set up just as many issues as allowing chaos to rule IMO. I have no idea if Terri was too punitive or expected perfection from Kyron. If she wanted excessive consequences for any behavior that was one iota less than perfect, that could be an indicator of other issues. All I can reasonably discern from the article is that Kaine and Terri did not agree on the management of these cards nor on the potential consequences.

To punish a child on a daily basis based on a color card can be detrimental to a childs self-esteem.  After a while the poor kid will question if they can ever do anything right.  

[seahorse]

  I come in peace...(gingerly stepping into the pond),

I just finished reading that whole article and then came on here and I must say it's truly fascinating to have read something and then read the different points of view on the same article.

What some report reading is not how I comprehended it at all.  Who's right?  I think everyone is.

When I read that article I see some truth but mostly I see a slant from ex-people in her life.  The interview with Eker's parents?  Come on...the mother states that Terri 'wanted our son'.  Sounds like some old farmhouse, golden child, bible thumping going on there.  Like, "Ohhhh that evil red headed woman come to da house to steeeel our Jimmy away!!!! She's eveeeel I say, !!"

The part about how Terri 'pushed' their son into adopting James nearly made me ill.   This man KNEW she had a child, THEY knew she had a child.  This was known going into the marriage and if the biological father couldn't support the child and this new family they made together was working I can sure see how the idea would be to adopt the boy, form a new family unit and move on from there.  But to me, to read it from the elder Ekerts you might think their sonny boy was just some hapless DUPE who was sucked in by this red headed siren with a CHILD, (gasp) from a previous relationship...How DARE she wear a WHITE wedding dress?


In the end here I don't think we all will ever agree and I don't know that we should.  I do know that I SINCERELY HOPE with all my might that NOTHING in my life ever happens so that people come to interview all my former 'friends' and neighbors and ex husbands!!  Good grief like that's not a biased view point from the get go.

I don't know I think Eckert's parents had her pegged from the get go.

His mother was conned I think. But bottom line, they were right to question her motives. The woman is manipulator and her actions later showed that she probably did push Ecker into adopting James--mo' money, mo' money, mo' money! I wouldn't surprise me to learn she was also getting unofficial financial support for James from Tarver. In reading that article, I don't see how it's possible to gloss over all the negative and just see the positive in Terri. No matter how positive the press, wouldn't the negative stuff thrown in here and there be like hitting a brick wall and make one question the validity of the positive stuff? I don't think a vice-versa situation has the same impact.

I just can't get over how hard people will try to put a positive spin on this woman!  At worst, Terri disappeared Kyron.  At the very least, she is a self centered narcissistic who does not take account the feelings of others.

I can understand wanting to be unbiased in an assessment of all of the parties involved, but I agree with Tx and Scatty. It seems that there are those who insist on trying to make TH appear to be a saint while vilifying anyone who reports information that refutes this saintly image. It wasn't only ex-husbands and in-laws that reported some disturbing TH behaviors that fall outside the norm, some were reported by those peripheral to the investigation who seem to have no reason to distort the truth. Also, those closest to the investigation shared both positive and negative behaviors that were noticed over time (including Kaine). It's hardly unbiased to cherry pick information and only attend to that which supports your own opinion. I am also growing weary of an attempt to paint Kaine as the devil incarnate and that anything negative that Terri did was most likely because of Kaine. While obviously not perfect, Kaine is not the one who caused this tragedy. To imply that he could have prevented it if he were only more aware or involved in his home life seems overly punitive IMO and is not supported by the entire body of information presented by sources thus far.

That said, the only thing I know for certain is that a beautiful child did not get what he deserved. Where is Kyron???

Exactly!  I don't know why the hostility towards Kaine, but there were those on the 'net **cough**42ndState**cough** spreading rumors about him without any facts to back it up.

txlisa

Where are the "facts" to back up your accusations against Terri and DeDe.

The handling of this case by LE in regards to PR has allowed "feelings" regarding the major players to rule.

Janet

The facts as presented when put together!  The landscaper, MFH plot, deceptive answers on polygraph, the throw away phones, and the timeline for June 4th.  And no, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young are not in collusion with the MCSO to railroad Terri Horman and Dede Spicher.

Clear as a Bell.  You simplify everything in a few sentences.

[seahorse]

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph!  I have read comments about where are Kaine and Desiree and why aren't they talking.  Could it be because people are accusing them of trying to railroad Terri and control information about this case?  Damned if they do, damned if they don't!

I was thinking about why they have not come out to talk and I remembered that Desiree was dreading August to come around without Kyron being found because she had plans for them to go on vacation. We have seen Kaine, but not desiree and I really do feel she is just in so much pain she can't put two words together. My prayers go out to her, everyday I pray that God will wrap his arms around her and protect her heart.

I believe LE told them "to hold the phone"!

[nicubird]

Sorry, I have to disagree with the discipline thing.  I think what Terri wanted Kaine to do was excessive and not necessary.

Well I disagree with you completely. She was parenting Kyron.

Do you feel it is reasonable to expect perfect behavior in the classroom every day? There are 4 colors of cards. If my (or any other child) had perfect behavior every single day in the classroom, I would find that to be a little strange. We all want our children to be perfect, but if a child gets 29 greens and one card that is the step lower than a green, do we ground them for that (if so, then for how long)? My point is we all have varying parenting styles. There is usually more than one way to get from point A to point B; however, expecting perfection from a child can set up just as many issues as allowing chaos to rule IMO. I have no idea if Terri was too punitive or expected perfection from Kyron. If she wanted excessive consequences for any behavior that was one iota less than perfect, that could be an indicator of other issues. All I can reasonably discern from the article is that Kaine and Terri did not agree on the management of these cards nor on the potential consequences.

To punish a child on a daily basis based on a color card can be detrimental to a childs self-esteem.  After a while the poor kid will question if they can ever do anything right.  

I agree with you.

[Tracygirl]

I have a son the same age as Kyron and constantly disciplining him for every little thing he might do wrong would have the opposite effect.  I just don't see it as necessary.  I talk with my son and discuss his day at school and go over things he could have done differently.  Punishments are saved for things that are really bad.

Never said there is not a positive reward if good behavior is present. Just said holding a child or person responsible for bad behavior is not a sign of abuse.