Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #22 8/19/10 - 8/21/10

[Gypsy DD]

I remember getting little gold stars when we did well and that was it  But find it very interesting this system.  Wyks with the info you just gave with this card system, is it just for kids with learning problems, or the entire class?  I remember getting in trouble with bad grades in math.

It can be used either way, Rosie.  Some teachers don't want to single a child out using this card system, because for some kids, that would perhaps give the wrong kind of attention.  Those teachers might use the card program with the whole class, and with a positive reward approach.  It kind of works similiar to what you said about the gold stars (same as what was used back in my day too).  In fact, a parent can use gold stars, or something similiar, at home with a child who kept/earned back a green card for the day. 

There are so many great ways to use these color cards, both at school and at home.  All to help a child in whatever his/her goals are. 

Absolutely Wyks!

This is a great system when used in a school or home setting in a postive manner.  The thing is to reward the positive behavior.  Usually that is why a teacher would use this as a weekly review with the parent..not daily.  You want to look at a block of time..not one day out of the block.  You want to see that there has been improvement and reward that..not punish the days it wasn't there.  A child might go from one week with 3 greens and two yellows..to the next week 4 greens and 1 yellow...etc.  If a parent were to make too much todo about one off day..and children do have off days just the rest of us...then this would defeat the purpose of looking at the big picture.  And it appears somehow Terri herself may have slept through the behavior mode class in college. 

WHERE IS KYRON?

[Justamama]

After reading about this color coding system I have some serious doubts about my own parenting ability.  WOW, I'm LAZY.

I think that expecting perfect behavior out of a second grader every single day of the week is completely unrealistic.

Maybe I shouldn't be so laid back.  BREAD AND WATER TONIGHT! 

Justamama it really isn't as bad as it sounds. The teachers do not require perfect behavior. To me it seems more like the counting thing I did with my older kids when they were growing up. If I got to 3 they new they were getting punished. Red here is for a very bad day, kinda like the kid completely ignored the teacher SEVERAL times. That is why I could not understand about Sammi getting a red, she is growing up with 2 old people and very respectful.

Hey I STILL count!  I swear even the dogs know when I'm getting to "3"!! 

When I first read about this system I thought it was actually a pretty good idea.  I wouldn't want to be a teacher for anything.  But that's for another thread.

 

With my dogs, I carry pieces of kibble in my left pocket.  They know it's there, no matter what we are doing.  Always to my left, they follow me.  To the kitchen, to the bathroom, outside to move the sprinkler.  Noses to my left pocket.  And when they have been good, and sometimes for no reason at all, 'unexpected', I give them each a kibble.  Did they get anything special?  Nope.  They did however, get rewarded for good behavior, and just for being the precious beings they are.  They like it, they expect it, and they strive to do what it takes to get a kibble. 

Humans are no different.  Altho a smile, word of praise, 'atta boy/girl', hug, or 'job well done', might work better than kibble. 

I have always thought that if I could really LOVE someone else in the unconditional, loyal, totally giving way my dogs love me then I would truly have finally become a 'good' person.

But I'm not that good.  I'm more self-centered than my dogs.  Bless their hearts.

[Tracygirl]

What agenda does Kaine have besides seeing his son returned safely to him?  Please tell me, I would really like to know!

I cannot speak for Kaine Horman.  You would have to ask him this question.

Okay, well I take it that his only agenda is getting his son back. 

Well I think it is fair to say that Kaines opinions right now are a little slanted. He is upset with Terri and blaming her for his son having gone missing. I am not saying he has this right or not, 

I too might be slightly suspicious of someone who tried to have me killed. Stranger abduction, or the psycho from home. Tough decision--not.

Scatty why do you attact my post? Is it because I am in the middle? Nothing upsets more people then someone on middle ground. It is only logical to think he would be slanted so then what he says be taken with that into consideration. Whether or not that is warrented has nothing to do with it and that is what I said

[txlisa]

Respectfully Tamikosmom, this is what you asked and I answered for you:

txlisa

Where are the "facts" to back up your accusations against Terri and DeDe.

[Wyks]

What agenda does Kaine have besides seeing his son returned safely to him?  Please tell me, I would really like to know!

I dunno.  What do we really know about Kaine?  Only what HE wants us to know about.  While he drags out every dirty deed anyone can think of or twist about Terri, while he remains Mr. Clean.  It's not enough to convince me he does or doesn't have an agenda.  More info about him is needed.

It's like walking into a fistfight between two people in middle school.  Are we gonna believe the first and only thing that comes out of one of their mouths?  No!  We're gonna try to seperate the two fighters, each to their corners, get the FULL story, and try to figure it out from there. 

Would love to have such a lengthy article written about Kaine himself, his attitudes, his experiences in life, who he is as a man/husband/father/friend.  Complete with views from his family/friends/coworkers/neighbors.  Maybe with more info about Kaine as the man he actually is, we might be able to reach an honest unbiased conclusion about both he and Terri.  I might even <gasp> fully AGREE with Kaine regarding Terri. 

But what do we have right now?  ONLY what HE himself is allowing the world to know about him and about Terri.  And that's it in a nutshell.    IMO. 

I totally agree with you Wyks, as usual! By the way, you owe me an email!

 

[Lenie]

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

Well I suppose we will see how this all turns out in about 10 years. Everyone has a different approach. I am a bit old fashion in my parenting style. My children are praised for positive behavior and help accountable for negative behavior. I do not hit, never have raised a hand to my children, they just get the look and they know what that means.

I can see this whole generation of children with their children. "do you want a red mark young man?"

lol...if only all classroom would do something like Kyrons teacher had. If you have been into a classroom lately it is entirely different then when we were in school. There is actual chatter and a constant buzzing of children talking.

Our school isn't like that. Last year I had to wait 20 minutes after dismissal for Sammi, when they came out finally I found out it was because some in the class would not quit talking. Wow were the bus drivers mad.

Sammi gets a daily planner every year and that is where her "colors" are put so as not to embarrass each individual.

[Scatty]

I have a son the same age as Kyron and constantly disciplining him for every little thing he might do wrong would have the opposite effect.  I just don't see it as necessary.  I talk with my son and discuss his day at school and go over things he could have done differently.  Punishments are saved for things that are really bad.

I never could figure out parents that punished their kids for getting B's. Yeah, yeah, I know the "you can do better" spiel, but like Kaine said, Kyron was just in 2nd grade. When I was in 2nd grade, my teacher thought I was "slow", but I just naturally perked up in 3rd grade and by 4th grade was the utterly brilliant ( ) person I am today.

[txlisa]

I have a son the same age as Kyron and constantly disciplining him for every little thing he might do wrong would have the opposite effect.  I just don't see it as necessary.  I talk with my son and discuss his day at school and go over things he could have done differently.  Punishments are saved for things that are really bad.

I never could figure out parents that punished their kids for getting B's. Yeah, yeah, I know the "you can do better" spiel, but like Kaine said, Kyron was just in 2nd grade. When I was in 2nd grade, my teacher thought I was "slow", but I just naturally perked up in 3rd grade and by 4th grade was the utterly brilliant ( ) person I am today.

I like this scene from Uncle Buck.  I so loved John Candy!  His movies always made me laugh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cUNA_0AOb8

[seahorse]

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

(BBM)

You know, I actually saw a program some time ago that said sending your child to their room/bed as punishment will lead to sleeping disorders in adulthood because of the negative associations with that room.  Made sense to me but I still do it.  There's no place else to send them in our house.

Justamama 

I was never sent to my room, I was made to clean for punishment.  I think it was a good idea, it kept me busy and I accomplished
something at the same time.  Parents should give a dust cloth to children to keep them busy. 

Lol Seahorse! We tried that once. We sent the kids out to pull weeds when they were in trouble and they just sat there arguing while not doing much of anything. That punishment did not last, lol. I have always read that if you put a child in timeout it should be relative to their age. For example, if you child is 5, a 5 minute time out is appropriate. When the kids got older, taking the computer and or phone away was the best punishment.

I never had "time out"! I was so scared of disobeying.  I was told "I will break your legs" 
Never would I want to find out!  Yes, I pulled weeds, too!    Today, Kids, intimidate parents and grandparents,
instead of the other way around. 

[Tracygirl]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

[Scatty]

I have a son the same age as Kyron and constantly disciplining him for every little thing he might do wrong would have the opposite effect.  I just don't see it as necessary.  I talk with my son and discuss his day at school and go over things he could have done differently.  Punishments are saved for things that are really bad.

Never said there is not a positive reward if good behavior is present. Just said holding a child or person responsible for bad behavior is not a sign of abuse.

That's fine, but that's not what TH was doing. There were several color codes ranging from green to whatever. If Kyron got anything but a green, she wanted him disciplined. Every kid has bad days and non productive days. The color coding was probably to be used as a general measurement, not a daily measurement like Terri insisted on. That's just plain weird.

[txlisa]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

There is nothing wrong with teaching a child consequences.  It's just that over doing the punishment does not always have the desired effect.

[no rose colored glasses]

I just find it interesting that James said he only heard his mom and Kaine fight once in eight years, and the couple fought in private.  I have never heard of that before, good way of doing it though. Would love to know how often they fought in private.

[Tamikosmom]

Exactly!  I don't know why the hostility towards Kaine, but there were those on the 'net **cough**42ndState**cough** spreading rumors about him without any facts to back it up.

txlisa

Where are the "facts" to back up your accusations against Terri and DeDe.

The handling of this case by LE in regards to PR has allowed "feelings" regarding the major players to rule.

Janet

The facts as presented when put together!  The landscaper, MFH plot, deceptive answers on polygraph, the throw away phones, and the timeline for June 4th.  And no, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young are not in collusion with the MCSO to railroad Terri Horman and Dede Spicher.

txlisa

I am referring to "facts" regarding your implications encompassing the Kyron and Terri's relationship.

Janet

++++

Damn!  No wonder the kid was shy and timid!  He probably had to walk on eggshells around her!

I shudder to think what she did to that poor child when no one else was around!

I think Kyron was Terri's "whipping boy."  The easiest target of her growing frustrations.  I don't think any discipline she did to that child was out of love. MOO!

I think Kyron was Terri's "whipping boy."  The easiest target of her growing frustrations.  I don't think any discipline she did to that child was out of love. MOO!

The crying about not wanting to leave Desiree.  Staying in his room until being told he could leave.  The comments Terri made on Facebook about Kyron.  Those little things added up send up red flags for me. 

txlisa ... you redflags may have merit but ... on the other hand ... maybe not.

1.  Most children consider visitation with the non-costodial parent as a mini-vacation .  Hey ... up until Kyron's age ... following an overnighter at Mama and Papa's  ... my grandkids cried when they heard Mom and Dad's vehicle coming up the driveway.  Those four kids (7-12) still are aware where the bar of expectation is lowered.

2.  My girlfriend's 5 year old grandson ... plays quietly with his toys and reads in his room each morning until one of his parents makes an appearance.  His more aggressive 6 year old sister ... on the other hand ... is like an alarm clock.  If she is awake the household is awake.

3.  I never read Terri's facebook but ... the countless revealed photos imply Kyron was one fortunate kid who was surrounded by the love of a doting father and stepmother.

Janet 

[txlisa]

I have a son the same age as Kyron and constantly disciplining him for every little thing he might do wrong would have the opposite effect.  I just don't see it as necessary.  I talk with my son and discuss his day at school and go over things he could have done differently.  Punishments are saved for things that are really bad.

Never said there is not a positive reward if good behavior is present. Just said holding a child or person responsible for bad behavior is not a sign of abuse.

That's fine, but that's not what TH was doing. There were several color codes ranging from green to whatever. If Kyron got anything but a green, she wanted him disciplined. Every kid has bad days and non productive days. The color coding was probably to be used as a general measurement, not a daily measurement like Terri insisted on. That's just plain weird.

Seriously, not getting a green card everyday from the teacher is hardly a sign of bad behavior!   Especially in a second grader!  Again, I defer to Uncle Buck's speech on the matter:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cUNA_0AOb8

[Justamama]

Here's something to consider about the MFH;

 

I know of a case in 'real' life and the wife was seeing someone on the side.  Her husband by anyone's admission is a complete and total  .  There was an altercation at their home with an 'intruder' and the husband was seriously injured.  Police are currently investigating all angles including the possibility that the wife's lover decided to take matters into his own hands.

There EXISTS a POSSIBILITY that the landscaper and Terri H. were having a passionate 'love' affair and during their pillow talk she poured her heart out to him about how mean Kaine is, how controlling he is, how verbally and emotionally abusive he is, how cruel, what a rotten husband...(and on and on)...

The landscaper, listening to all of this gets his love and testosterone all worked up into a froth and tells her; "I'll take care of it", they talk further...he even goes into some detail about how he would plan and carry it out.  HIS IDEA.

THEN...time passes and he suddenly sees her on the news in connection with this situation with Kyron.  HE PANICS thinking that in her duress she is going to spill the beans about their pillow talk and doing Kaine in...

So he decides it's better to spill the beans FIRST and make it look like it was all HER idea.


It could have happened.

[txlisa]

Exactly!  I don't know why the hostility towards Kaine, but there were those on the 'net **cough**42ndState**cough** spreading rumors about him without any facts to back it up.

txlisa

Where are the "facts" to back up your accusations against Terri and DeDe.

The handling of this case by LE in regards to PR has allowed "feelings" regarding the major players to rule.

Janet

The facts as presented when put together!  The landscaper, MFH plot, deceptive answers on polygraph, the throw away phones, and the timeline for June 4th.  And no, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young are not in collusion with the MCSO to railroad Terri Horman and Dede Spicher.

txlisa

I am referring to "facts" regarding your implications encompassing the Kyron and Terri's relationship.

Janet

++++

Damn!  No wonder the kid was shy and timid!  He probably had to walk on eggshells around her!

I shudder to think what she did to that poor child when no one else was around!

I think Kyron was Terri's "whipping boy."  The easiest target of her growing frustrations.  I don't think any discipline she did to that child was out of love. MOO!

I think Kyron was Terri's "whipping boy."  The easiest target of her growing frustrations.  I don't think any discipline she did to that child was out of love. MOO!

The crying about not wanting to leave Desiree.  Staying in his room until being told he could leave.  The comments Terri made on Facebook about Kyron.  Those little things added up send up red flags for me. 

txlisa ... you redflags may have merit but ... on the other hand ... maybe not.

1.  Most children consider visitation with the non-costodial parent as a mini-vacation .  Hey ... up until Kyron's age ... following an overnighter at Mama and Papa's  ... my grandkids cried when they heard Mom and Dad's vehicle coming up the driveway.  Those four kids (7-12) still are aware where the bar of expectation is lowered.

2.  My girlfriend's 5 year old grandson ... plays quietly with his toys and reads in his room each morning until one of his parents makes an appearance.  His more aggressive 6 year old sister ... on the other hand ... is like an alarm clock.  If she is awake the household is awake.

3.  I never read Terri's facebook but ... the countless revealed photos imply Kyron was one fortunate kid who was surrounded by the love of a doting father and stepmother.

Janet 

Okay, fine whatevs.  It really doesn't matter since your question pertained to Terri and Dede anyways.

[Tamikosmom]

I just find it interesting that James said he only heard his mom and Kaine fight once in eight years, and the couple fought in private.  I have never heard of that before, good way of doing it though. Would love to know how often they fought in private.

no rose

Do you have a link/source where James remarked on Terri and Kaine's relationship.

Thanks

Janet

[Scatty]

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

(BBM)

You know, I actually saw a program some time ago that said sending your child to their room/bed as punishment will lead to sleeping disorders in adulthood because of the negative associations with that room.  Made sense to me but I still do it.  There's no place else to send them in our house.

Like Dennis the Menace, I had my own little chair in a corner of the room.

[Puzzler]

What agenda does Kaine have besides seeing his son returned safely to him?  Please tell me, I would really like to know!

I cannot speak for Kaine Horman.  You would have to ask him this question.

Okay, well I take it that his only agenda is getting his son back. 

I see that Kaine and Desiree both very much want their son back 

no rose

I am not doubting that but ... on the other hand ... there is something terrible wrong when these two are the ONLY source of information on this case other than unnamed "credible sources".

Janet

When you consider that Kaine and Terri's lives have crossed many, many people and those people are not talking; Kaine has many co-workers and those people aren't talking; that LE is sending most of it's information through the parents to the public, and then in instances after the parents have spoken to point out that it was not information released to the public via the LE; it's all just too tight-lipped for a young boy having gone missing. 

It's uncomfortable...many, many people have pointed this out on this forum and in other forums.  You don't normally hear about this degree of press/public information control in cases of missing children.  We don't normally hear so many voices expressing concern that there's so much control.  You don't normally hear a parent want to ban the two largest news medias in a missing child's area from any information about the case because they're not planning as a team member in the parent's opinion.  IMO that's why it stands out in this case.  If my child were missing, I'd want every iota of press coverage and by every single reporter, TV station, radio station, print press, etc., to cover the fact that my child was missing. 

It's not understandable.  It's uncomfortable to watch.  And...it makes people question it!