Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #22 8/19/10 - 8/21/10

[Scatty]

Another thing that I find hinky is, if Kaine wasn't even around when Terri had James leave, why was Terri compaining "to whomever would listen" at the gym about how mean Kaine was being about James, and Kaine forcing James to leave. It sounds very much like laying the groundwork for something. Maybe to convince someone there how sad her situation was and to find a sucker to help her in her scheme(s) against Kaine. Schemes that could involve Kyron's disappearance. I'm thinking one of those  platinum-blond "village of the damned" people--possibly a guy. Just kidding about the blond types but I think it may have been a male she was trying to influence. Just call it spidey-sense. IMO more info to come from 24Hour Fitness.

[klaasend]

O/T Janet - check your hotmail when you get a chance.  TIA 

[no rose colored glasses]

seahorse I think everyone daydreams, but maybe Kyron wasn't daydreaming and had other issues, just don't know.

NoRose,

You are open minded.  Perhaps, CSI was the reason for staring in outer space. SM took Kyron to CSI on vacation,

(recommended to age 12 years and up) he was only six at the time.  I think Kyron was exposed to adult stuff

and not alway in the best interest of children. 

I don't know, another thing that I believe my husband and I were guilty of. Reading all this today makes me wonder how my kids made it to 25 and 23 years old. Everybody has their own way of dealing with kids and their upbringing. But Kyron also could have had something wrong, just have no idea.

[Scatty]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

There is nothing wrong with teaching a child consequences.  It's just that over doing the punishment does not always have the desired effect.

A parent need to have a balance. The article never said there was not a balance, it said she wanted kyron to be punished, or held accountable for his loosing the green. I think it said he was to be put on a time out or loose something? That is not overboard in my opinion.

Ya but to constantly expect that on a daily basis is unreasonable.  They are kids FFS!  Not programmable robots!

What is FFS?

What it DOESN'T mean is "For Feaven's Sake" 

[txlisa]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

There is nothing wrong with teaching a child consequences.  It's just that over doing the punishment does not always have the desired effect.

A parent need to have a balance. The article never said there was not a balance, it said she wanted kyron to be punished, or held accountable for his loosing the green. I think it said he was to be put on a time out or loose something? That is not overboard in my opinion.

Ya but to constantly expect that on a daily basis is unreasonable.  They are kids FFS!  Not programmable robots!

That was supposed FGS=for God sake.

[Wyks]

I have a son the same age as Kyron and constantly disciplining him for every little thing he might do wrong would have the opposite effect.  I just don't see it as necessary.  I talk with my son and discuss his day at school and go over things he could have done differently.  Punishments are saved for things that are really bad.

Never said there is not a positive reward if good behavior is present. Just said holding a child or person responsible for bad behavior is not a sign of abuse.

That's fine, but that's not what TH was doing. There were several color codes ranging from green to whatever. If Kyron got anything but a green, she wanted him disciplined. Every kid has bad days and non productive days. The color coding was probably to be used as a general measurement, not a daily measurement like Terri insisted on. That's just plain weird.

*Tiptoes in*  Just to point out, all we have is a one-sided 'report' from Kaine, that this is what Terri did.  How do you know for sure what the heck Terri was doing, and why?  Just saying........   

Would you want to be judged with the same yardstick you are judging Terri with?  Really?? 

[wildmala]

2).  Anyone believe that when fall comes and school goes back into session there is a teeny tiny chance that someone will discover Kyron's body in a place no one thought to look?

YES - I have a very strong feeling that this will be the case.

[Puzzler]

Eckert's parents either had Terri pegged, or no woman would have been good enough for their son. Many parents have conflicts with who their child marries. I know that I have kept quiet so not to rock the boat with one of my daughter's choices, don't want to say anything because I dearly don't want to lose her. So it could be looked at both ways.

But hindsight is 20/20 and in hindsight, Terri did some peculiar stuff to Eckert concerning child support and calling the Sheriff's Office on him after pretending to be all understanding when he questioned the child support increase. And he's still paying support, but James is living with Tarver, his bio dad! That is so unfair.

Not only unfair doesn't make sense to me, but he did adopt James, don't really know the legal workings on how this all goes. 

I used to work in the Family Support division of the DA's office, and every now and then saw situations like this. I had no respect for those women that saw these men as just meal tickets. Ecker needs to go back to court and try again. But I think he's just too decent to do that to James. He needs to realize that James already has 2 other fathers, and the only one he has no contact with shouldn't be the one to pay. He may not win though. It's a crapshoot, depending on the state.

Tarver signed away his rights to his son and then Ecker who was married to Terri at the time adopted him. James then became Ecker's responsibility to financially support him until he is 18. I would think if James is going to continue living with his bio-dad that he (Tarver) should support him....but who knows maybe the adoptive father wants to continue supporting him.

It sounds like Ecker is legally responsible to continue the support, until and unless, "someone" were to go to court to have that responsibility altered.

[no rose colored glasses]

I didn't do that right...sorry.

Lucky for me I wasn't there the morning he didn't have anything for show and tell so he stood up and told the entire class, "My mom passes gas and blames it on the cat!!!".     Now that is funny, and I'm glad to see that I am not the only one with a kid that would say things like that.

[Justamama]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

There is nothing wrong with teaching a child consequences.  It's just that over doing the punishment does not always have the desired effect.

A parent need to have a balance. The article never said there was not a balance, it said she wanted kyron to be punished, or held accountable for his loosing the green. I think it said he was to be put on a time out or loose something? That is not overboard in my opinion.

Ya but to constantly expect that on a daily basis is unreasonable.  They are kids FFS!  Not programmable robots!

What is FFS?

I checked my cookbook and it stands for "Fast Frosted Snickerdoodles".

[Gypsy DD]

I just find it interesting that James said he only heard his mom and Kaine fight once in eight years, and the couple fought in private.  I have never heard of that before, good way of doing it though. Would love to know how often they fought in private.

I would love to know when that fight took place.  Recently on a weekend visit when James was home, before James was sent away, before the MFH?

[Tracygirl]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

Tracy I certainly agree that children do need to learn accountability.  The best way to get more of a behavior is to compliment and reward that behavior..rather then punish the few off days.  I think that perhaps rather then look at things from a weekly stand point of Kyron has improved this week..she was like lets look at each and everyday....she then get lost in the detail and missed the whole point of the system the class was using.  This would infact undermine the whole purpose of the weekly updates to parents vs daily and undermine the whole system the teacher was trying to use..to both gain self esteem and improvement in her students.

And I imagine the teacher tried to explain that to Terri..because Desiree said in the recent article that Terri would email her complaining about the teacher, about Kyron about Kaine.  Terri didn't seem happy with the three of them.  Perhaps her answer was the disappearance of Kyron..hurting Kaine, hurting the teaching..and hurting Kyron. 

IDK.   

I don't think you understand just how much I do understand the behavioral modification methods used and why. I use them with my disabled child and know that they are needed to teach him because he doesn't have the ability to understand as a non disabled child does. I don't happen to believe a child who is not disabled needs to have these tools to be honest with you. I expect children to listen, to follow the rules and to be good students and citizens.
As I have said over and over again until my face is blue, if Terri locked Kyron up, hit him and I will include, verbally attacked him, then that is wrong, wrong, wrong and she would be in my eyes a monster. However the article said she held him accountable by wanting him to go on a time out or have a toy taken away. That is not abusive.

[Scatty]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

There is nothing wrong with teaching a child consequences.  It's just that over doing the punishment does not always have the desired effect.

A parent need to have a balance. The article never said there was not a balance, it said she wanted kyron to be punished, or held accountable for his loosing the green. I think it said he was to be put on a time out or loose something? That is not overboard in my opinion.

Ya but to constantly expect that on a daily basis is unreasonable.  They are kids FFS!  Not programmable robots!

That was supposed FGS=for God sake.

Yeah. Sure. Pull the other one.

[txlisa]

We shouldn't judge Terri, but at the same time we should be very suspect of Kaine and Desiree says?

[no rose colored glasses]

I just find it interesting that James said he only heard his mom and Kaine fight once in eight years, and the couple fought in private.  I have never heard of that before, good way of doing it though. Would love to know how often they fought in private.

I would love to know when that fight took place.  Recently on a weekend visit when James was home, before James was sent away, before the MFH?

Me too

[txlisa]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

There is nothing wrong with teaching a child consequences.  It's just that over doing the punishment does not always have the desired effect.

A parent need to have a balance. The article never said there was not a balance, it said she wanted kyron to be punished, or held accountable for his loosing the green. I think it said he was to be put on a time out or loose something? That is not overboard in my opinion.

Ya but to constantly expect that on a daily basis is unreasonable.  They are kids FFS!  Not programmable robots!

That was supposed FGS=for God sake.

Yeah. Sure. Pull the other one.

 

[Gypsy DD]

Here's something to consider about the MFH;

 

I know of a case in 'real' life and the wife was seeing someone on the side.  Her husband by anyone's admission is a complete and total  .  There was an altercation at their home with an 'intruder' and the husband was seriously injured.  Police are currently investigating all angles including the possibility that the wife's lover decided to take matters into his own hands.

There EXISTS a POSSIBILITY that the landscaper and Terri H. were having a passionate 'love' affair and during their pillow talk she poured her heart out to him about how mean Kaine is, how controlling he is, how verbally and emotionally abusive he is, how cruel, what a rotten husband...(and on and on)...

The landscaper, listening to all of this gets his love and testosterone all worked up into a froth and tells her; "I'll take care of it", they talk further...he even goes into some detail about how he would plan and carry it out.  HIS IDEA.

THEN...time passes and he suddenly sees her on the news in connection with this situation with Kyron.  HE PANICS thinking that in her duress she is going to spill the beans about their pillow talk and doing Kaine in...

So he decides it's better to spill the beans FIRST and make it look like it was all HER idea.


It could have happened.

It could have..but it didn't happen that way.

The LS did not go to the LE to spill the beans.  They came to him because the beans were already spilled through texts , email, phone messages, etc. 

LE found the LS and went to him..not the other way around.

[txlisa]

Here's something to consider about the MFH;

 

I know of a case in 'real' life and the wife was seeing someone on the side.  Her husband by anyone's admission is a complete and total  .  There was an altercation at their home with an 'intruder' and the husband was seriously injured.  Police are currently investigating all angles including the possibility that the wife's lover decided to take matters into his own hands.

There EXISTS a POSSIBILITY that the landscaper and Terri H. were having a passionate 'love' affair and during their pillow talk she poured her heart out to him about how mean Kaine is, how controlling he is, how verbally and emotionally abusive he is, how cruel, what a rotten husband...(and on and on)...

The landscaper, listening to all of this gets his love and testosterone all worked up into a froth and tells her; "I'll take care of it", they talk further...he even goes into some detail about how he would plan and carry it out.  HIS IDEA.

THEN...time passes and he suddenly sees her on the news in connection with this situation with Kyron.  HE PANICS thinking that in her duress she is going to spill the beans about their pillow talk and doing Kaine in...

So he decides it's better to spill the beans FIRST and make it look like it was all HER idea.


It could have happened.

It could have..but it didn't happen that way.

The LS did not go to the LE to spill the beans.  They came to him because the beans were already spilled through texts , email, phone messages, etc. 

LE found the LS and went to him..not the other way around.

And wasn't Terri doing the sexting thing with him, as well?

[Tracygirl]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

I agree, TG.  Which is why, by the time I got to the raising of my third son, I was ready for something different.  Something that actually worked well, in positive ways.  Enter the S.T.E.P. program.  (Systematic Training For Effective Parenting).  Started this with my then 3 yr old.  Gave him *choices*, which had consequences.  And the result?  Had a 3 yr old learning to make his own good choices, cuz he didn't like the consequences of the wrong choices!  My youngest now, at age of 25, has since age 3, been BY FAR the most responsible of all my three sons.  How I wish I had started this program with my oldest when he was 3 yrs old.  Sigh.  Hindsight and all.  This program is now my fav present to give a new parent at the birth of their lil darlings.

 

Balance, that is the key. Can give praise and ignore or make excused for bad behavior. Can't be too strick and make the kid feel like crap. What I want to know did Terri praise Kyron for having green cards? If so, then I don't see anythng wrong with her wanting to take away a toy or put him on a time out. If she ignored the green cards then that is a whole other ball game. There is a just a fact not being said, that is all!

[Gypsy DD]

I can't understand why a parent would not want to teach a child there are consequences for bad behavior and hold them accountable for choices that are not wanted within age guidelines that is.
 

Tracy I certainly agree that children do need to learn accountability.  The best way to get more of a behavior is to compliment and reward that behavior..rather then punish the few off days.  I think that perhaps rather then look at things from a weekly stand point of Kyron has improved this week..she was like lets look at each and everyday....she then get lost in the detail and missed the whole point of the system the class was using.  This would infact undermine the whole purpose of the weekly updates to parents vs daily and undermine the whole system the teacher was trying to use..to both gain self esteem and improvement in her students.

And I imagine the teacher tried to explain that to Terri..because Desiree said in the recent article that Terri would email her complaining about the teacher, about Kyron about Kaine.  Terri didn't seem happy with the three of them.  Perhaps her answer was the disappearance of Kyron..hurting Kaine, hurting the teaching..and hurting Kyron. 

IDK.   

I don't think you understand just how much I do understand the behavioral modification methods used and why. I use them with my disabled child and know that they are needed to teach him because he doesn't have the ability to understand as a non disabled child does. I don't happen to believe a child who is not disabled needs to have these tools to be honest with you. I expect children to listen, to follow the rules and to be good students and citizens.
As I have said over and over again until my face is blue, if Terri locked Kyron up, hit him and I will include, verbally attacked him, then that is wrong, wrong, wrong and she would be in my eyes a monster. However the article said she held him accountable by wanting him to go on a time out or have a toy taken away. That is not abusive.

Tracy I was not trying to offend you.  Infact I thought I was supporting you in the position about the need to see all sides in this....and that children need to be held accountable for their behavior.   Please accept my apology if I offended you.