Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #22 8/19/10 - 8/21/10

[Itaryl Moosee]

PORTLAND -- For weeks, a parade of witnesses came and went from the Multnomah County Courthouse.

Kyron Horman's parents testified before a grand jury along with others surrounding the seven year old's disappearance.

Since then, there's been little news from this secret panel.

In addition, a judge's order restricting any photography of witnesses coming and going from the grand jury room has expired.

So does this mean the Grand jury is done? Probably not, said former Multnomah County prosecutor Jim McIntyre.

He said grand jury term can be extended for weeks, months or even years. Jurors are essentially on stand-by as the investigation moves forward.

http://www.kgw.com/news/Grand-jury-still-hearing-Kyron-Horman-case-101124089.html

[Puzzler]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

Terri Moulton Horman: Kyron Horman's stepmother is a profile in contradictions

Some very nice pictures go along with this article, too.

Thank you.

A very nice summary of things. It was great to hear from James, and other people.

Itaryl Moosee - I left you this reply on Jason's thread, page 17, and then he posted and confirmed 2 1/2 months:

This is what I've gotten out of everything so far:

Met her in class
She invited him to go with her to her company's Christmas function
In March he lost respect for her
From March to August he only talked to her 5 or 6 times

IMO dating was from Christmas to March (approx. 2 - 2 1/2 months)

[Claycat]

Hi Puzzler!  He said they dated for 10 months, but more intensely for the last 2 - 2 1/2 months.

[can]

Good Friday Morning all... I hope this day finds you all well and Happy.  After reading that article the first thing that popped in my head was Borderline Personality Disorder.
I am not a psychiatrist but from past work experience in a field working with adults with challenges Terri seems to have a lot of the classic symptoms of this disorder. She seems to switch from idealizing the people she knows to devaluing them. She also had fluctuations in her self image as well as impulse issues.  Alot of people can live with this disorder and I believe it starts to wane as they get older. I can see Terri reaching a snapping point, kind of like Casey who was in the height of her disorder. This is all just my opinion and I don't even know if the article is accurate. But it certainly could explain Terri's personality and why we all have a hard time trying to understand why she is acting the way she is with Kyron missing. Although her lawyer may tell her to not speak to anyone, Terri also needs something to control right now in her life. By being silent she is in control.
The question we all ask here is did she do something with Kyron? LE seems to think so, Why? Why did the judge also believe the MFH plot and give sole custody to Kaine? Did Terri Fail the lie detector tests because of her personality disorder? Le says Terri is not a POI yet they hand out a flier with her pic on it as well as her friend Dede's, WHY??  Which one of these questions is it?
1. Is Le Grasping at straws?
2. Does Le know more and they are trying to break Terri?
I am sorry Kyron that you like many others are out there somewhere and someone knows where, yet they are either too sick or selfish to say where. I wish there was a cure for the bad in this world.
Have a good day all.

Good morning to you too newfie!
When you say Terri seems to switch from idealizing people to devaluing them I think you're right on!

Interesting too that she would complain to Kaine about her appearance and he repeatedly reassured her that he cares about who she is, not her appearance...until he finally got tired of reassuring her.  She must have a constant need for attention and approval. 

Poor Kyron.  Sweet boy, where are you? 

[cw618]

Good Friday Morning all... I hope this day finds you all well and Happy.  After reading that article the first thing that popped in my head was Borderline Personality Disorder.
I am not a psychiatrist but from past work experience in a field working with adults with challenges Terri seems to have a lot of the classic symptoms of this disorder. She seems to switch from idealizing the people she knows to devaluing them. She also had fluctuations in her self image as well as impulse issues.  Alot of people can live with this disorder and I believe it starts to wane as they get older. I can see Terri reaching a snapping point, kind of like Casey who was in the height of her disorder. This is all just my opinion and I don't even know if the article is accurate. But it certainly could explain Terri's personality and why we all have a hard time trying to understand why she is acting the way she is with Kyron missing. Although her lawyer may tell her to not speak to anyone, Terri also needs something to control right now in her life. By being silent she is in control.
The question we all ask here is did she do something with Kyron? LE seems to think so, Why? Why did the judge also believe the MFH plot and give sole custody to Kaine? Did Terri Fail the lie detector tests because of her personality disorder? Le says Terri is not a POI yet they hand out a flier with her pic on it as well as her friend Dede's, WHY??  Which one of these questions is it?
1. Is Le Grasping at straws?
2. Does Le know more and they are trying to break Terri?
I am sorry Kyron that you like many others are out there somewhere and someone knows where, yet they are either too sick or selfish to say where. I wish there was a cure for the bad in this world.
Have a good day all.

james
I've never seen Kaine cry until Kyron went missing," James said, adding that his mother was hysterical.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

james may be on to something, he used the word hysterical, james reads avidly
so he may really understand the meaning of the word hysterical, and he knows his
mother well, odd choice of word for a 16yr old

newfie i think this is closer for the idea of a personality disorder
Histrionic personality disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

Hysteria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteria

a lot of food for thought thanks for the posting
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

[Puzzler]

Hi Puzzler!  He said they dated for 10 months, but more intensely for the last 2 - 2 1/2 months.

IMO - March to August -  5 months - you see/talk to each other approx. 1x a month AFTER he already lost respect for her after the beginning of the year and then lost more respect for her in March really doesn't add up to "dating" from March on.  Like I said: IMO.

[Puzzler]

Good Friday Morning all... I hope this day finds you all well and Happy.  After reading that article the first thing that popped in my head was Borderline Personality Disorder.
I am not a psychiatrist but from past work experience in a field working with adults with challenges Terri seems to have a lot of the classic symptoms of this disorder. She seems to switch from idealizing the people she knows to devaluing them. She also had fluctuations in her self image as well as impulse issues.  Alot of people can live with this disorder and I believe it starts to wane as they get older. I can see Terri reaching a snapping point, kind of like Casey who was in the height of her disorder. This is all just my opinion and I don't even know if the article is accurate. But it certainly could explain Terri's personality and why we all have a hard time trying to understand why she is acting the way she is with Kyron missing. Although her lawyer may tell her to not speak to anyone, Terri also needs something to control right now in her life. By being silent she is in control.
The question we all ask here is did she do something with Kyron? LE seems to think so, Why? Why did the judge also believe the MFH plot and give sole custody to Kaine? Did Terri Fail the lie detector tests because of her personality disorder? Le says Terri is not a POI yet they hand out a flier with her pic on it as well as her friend Dede's, WHY??  Which one of these questions is it?
1. Is Le Grasping at straws?
2. Does Le know more and they are trying to break Terri?
I am sorry Kyron that you like many others are out there somewhere and someone knows where, yet they are either too sick or selfish to say where. I wish there was a cure for the bad in this world.
Have a good day all.

james
I've never seen Kaine cry until Kyron went missing," James said, adding that his mother was hysterical.
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

james may be on to something, he used the word hysterical, james reads avidly
so he may really understand the meaning of the word hysterical, and he knows his
mother well, odd choice of word for a 16yr old

newfie i think this is closer for the idea of a personality disorder
Histrionic personality disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder

Hysteria
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteria

a lot of food for thought thanks for the posting
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

IMO...I'm a little leery to go too far one way or the other with parts of this article, because I didn't get a comfort level about these intereviews, with "quotes", if those were the writer's thoughts/interrputations about what the person being interviewed said or whether the person actually said those direct words.  I know I'm being a little nit-picky, but I've not been impressed with the press with respect to writing about Kyron's case.

[no rose colored glasses]

Thank-you very interesting article.

[Itaryl Moosee]

Itaryl Moosee - I left you this reply on Jason's thread, page 17, and then he posted and confirmed 2 1/2 months:

This is what I've gotten out of everything so far:

Met her in class
She invited him to go with her to her company's Christmas function
In March he lost respect for her
From March to August he only talked to her 5 or 6 times

IMO dating was from Christmas to March (approx. 2 - 2 1/2 months)

Okies, yah I had seen it. Thanks.

To me... 2 1/2 months... not enough time to judge a person and claim to know her so well.

I was married for 9 years, lived through extreme goods and bads, had three kids.

But, I can't say that I know my ex 100%.

I couldn't say if my ex is capable of murder, or of abusing a child, or what.

I mean, there are things that people keep so hidden from others, and with the stories coming out in newspapers all over the world, one never knows who is sleeping next to them at night.

Not that I want to freak people up.

But... we just can't say we know people 100%... specially if we only know them for 2 months. Or, 2 1/2 months.

At least he's sharing with others. Maybe out of the fear (as someone said above) of being thought of involved in the case?

IMO

[Puzzler]

Itaryl Moosee - I left you this reply on Jason's thread, page 17, and then he posted and confirmed 2 1/2 months:

This is what I've gotten out of everything so far:

Met her in class
She invited him to go with her to her company's Christmas function
In March he lost respect for her
From March to August he only talked to her 5 or 6 times

IMO dating was from Christmas to March (approx. 2 - 2 1/2 months)

Okies, yah I had seen it. Thanks.

To me... 2 1/2 months... not enough time to judge a person and claim to know her so well.

I was married for 9 years, lived through extreme goods and bads, had three kids.

But, I can't say that I know my ex 100%.

I couldn't say if my ex is capable of murder, or of abusing a child, or what.

I mean, there are things that people keep so hidden from others, and with the stories coming out in newspapers all over the world, one never knows who is sleeping next to them at night.

Not that I want to freak people up.

But... we just can't say we know people 100%... specially if we only know them for 2 months. Or, 2 1/2 months.

At least he's sharing with others. Maybe out of the fear (as someone said above) of being thought of involved in the case?

IMO

Maybe he came forth because he didn't want to get caught up in this and it hurt his business.  Seems like it wouldn't take much to put him out of business in this economy.

[Grey]

IMO...I'm a little leery to go too far one way or the other with parts of this article, because I didn't get a comfort level about these intereviews, with "quotes", if those were the writer's thoughts/interrputations about what the person being interviewed said or whether the person actually said those direct words.  I know I'm being a little nit-picky, but I've not been impressed with the press with respect to writing about Kyron's case.

I always take news articles and broadcasts with a grain of salt. My favorite over the years has been newscasters who state after someone has answered their question, "what you really mean to say is ...."

Nit-pick all you want. It's the right thing to do.

[no rose colored glasses]

Itaryl Moosee - I left you this reply on Jason's thread, page 17, and then he posted and confirmed 2 1/2 months:

This is what I've gotten out of everything so far:

Met her in class
She invited him to go with her to her company's Christmas function
In March he lost respect for her
From March to August he only talked to her 5 or 6 times

IMO dating was from Christmas to March (approx. 2 - 2 1/2 months)

Okies, yah I had seen it. Thanks.

To me... 2 1/2 months... not enough time to judge a person and claim to know her so well.

I was married for 9 years, lived through extreme goods and bads, had three kids.

But, I can't say that I know my ex 100%.

I couldn't say if my ex is capable of murder, or of abusing a child, or what.

I mean, there are things that people keep so hidden from others, and with the stories coming out in newspapers all over the world, one never knows who is sleeping next to them at night.

Not that I want to freak people up.

But... we just can't say we know people 100%... specially if we only know them for 2 months. Or, 2 1/2 months.

At least he's sharing with others. Maybe out of the fear (as someone said above) of being thought of involved in the case?

IMO

I could not agree more with you. That was a very good article, not sure what to think exactly, Terri has some good qualities and some not so good, like everybody. That obsession with Kyron and the colored stars, seems extreme, but maybe she didn't want him to fail and to be a good student. But then at the same time, James wasn't doing well in school. I need to read it again, just skimmed the first time, she certainly is a woman who wants to be in control.  I will say that picture of her and her husband when James was little, she looked very pretty in that picture. James sure seems like a well rounded and good kid.

[Lazydog1]

I thought I would bring this over here to assist those who are still interested in the family ties of Jason Name Redacted/Name Redacted2.  This was posted at Blink as they are now researching him also and his ties to the Elder Name Redacted2.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/26/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-grand-jury-meets-indictment-imminent/comment-page-56/#comment-1614319

#
Dee says:
August 19, 2010 at 10:51 pm

http://www.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/citizenreview/CRBNetworkNews0706final.pdf?ga=t

Above is the link to the Oregon Citizen Review Board Newsletter. On page 5, 2nd para. you will see Jason Name Redacted2. This is how he has been known to the CRP for the many years that he has been with them. Beejay, considering that intensive screening form you showed that they make their volunteers fill out and the criminal background check, it’s doubtful that they would have gotten his name wrong. It appears that Jason Name Redacted and Jason Name Redacted2 are, in fact, one and the same.
 
 

[no rose colored glasses]

Thank-you Lazydog1, I am not sure exactly how I feel about Jason, can't pinpoint it.  One thing from reading that article and that James talks to his mother on the phone a lot. I have tried to place myself and think what would I feel and do if my mother could be responsible for what has happened to my step brother. One side of me would do what he is doing and talking to her, and then the other side of me, I don't think I would want anything to do with her. This poor kid is in a terrible situation with all this 

[Puzzler]

I thought I would bring this over here to assist those who are still interested in the family ties of Jason Name Redacted/Name Redacted2.  This was posted at Blink as they are now researching him also and his ties to the Elder Name Redacted2.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/07/26/kyron-horman-missing-and-endangered-grand-jury-meets-indictment-imminent/comment-page-56/#comment-1614319

#
Dee says:
August 19, 2010 at 10:51 pm

http://www.oregon.gov/OJD/docs/OSCA/cpsd/citizenreview/CRBNetworkNews0706final.pdf?ga=t

Above is the link to the Oregon Citizen Review Board Newsletter. On page 5, 2nd para. you will see Jason Name Redacted2. This is how he has been known to the CRP for the many years that he has been with them. Beejay, considering that intensive screening form you showed that they make their volunteers fill out and the criminal background check, it’s doubtful that they would have gotten his name wrong. It appears that Jason Name Redacted and Jason Name Redacted2 are, in fact, one and the same.
 
 

But...but...but...Jason told us his name had always been Name Redacted.   

[Itaryl Moosee]

I could not agree more with you. That was a very good article, not sure what to think exactly, Terri has some good qualities and some not so good, like everybody. That obsession with Kyron and the colored stars, seems extreme, but maybe she didn't want him to fail and to be a good student. But then at the same time, James wasn't doing well in school. I need to read it again, just skimmed the first time, she certainly is a woman who wants to be in control.  I will say that picture of her and her husband when James was little, she looked very pretty in that picture. James sure seems like a well rounded and good kid.
[/quote]

Kids blossom in certain environments and wither and die in others.

Me thinks the Horman/Moulton home wasn't such a good environment for James, maybe not for Kyron, either.

And... we read what Kaine said when asked how Kiara is doing. He said that she is a  "new child"... or something like that. Meaning that she is thriving.

I don't want to trash Terri, but me thinks that by being a perfectionist she was not being a dotting "mom."

I'll get off my high horse now.

[no rose colored glasses]

I could not agree more with you. That was a very good article, not sure what to think exactly, Terri has some good qualities and some not so good, like everybody. That obsession with Kyron and the colored stars, seems extreme, but maybe she didn't want him to fail and to be a good student. But then at the same time, James wasn't doing well in school. I need to read it again, just skimmed the first time, she certainly is a woman who wants to be in control.  I will say that picture of her and her husband when James was little, she looked very pretty in that picture. James sure seems like a well rounded and good kid.

Kids blossom in certain environments and wither and die in others.

Me thinks the Horman/Moulton home wasn't such a good environment for James, maybe not for Kyron, either.

And... we read what Kaine said when asked how Kiara is doing. He said that she is a  "new child"... or something like that. Meaning that she is thriving.

I don't want to trash Terri, but me thinks that by being a perfectionist she was not being a dotting "mom."

I'll get off my high horse now.




[/quote]Unfortunately their are parents that are perfectionists pushing kids to do this and that, like the parent is living their life through the child, and forcing them to do what they perhaps wanted to do as a child. I don't know what to say, because unfortunately I feel that I might have been guilty myself of trying to have things perfect, and it is impossible for that to happen 

[Puzzler]

I could not agree more with you. That was a very good article, not sure what to think exactly, Terri has some good qualities and some not so good, like everybody. That obsession with Kyron and the colored stars, seems extreme, but maybe she didn't want him to fail and to be a good student. But then at the same time, James wasn't doing well in school. I need to read it again, just skimmed the first time, she certainly is a woman who wants to be in control.  I will say that picture of her and her husband when James was little, she looked very pretty in that picture. James sure seems like a well rounded and good kid.

Kids blossom in certain environments and wither and die in others.

Me thinks the Horman/Moulton home wasn't such a good environment for James, maybe not for Kyron, either.

And... we read what Kaine said when asked how Kiara is doing. He said that she is a  "new child"... or something like that. Meaning that she is thriving.

I don't want to trash Terri, but me thinks that by being a perfectionist she was not being a dotting "mom."

I'll get off my high horse now.

Unfortunately their are parents that are perfectionists pushing kids to do this and that, like the parent is living their life through the child, and forcing them to do what they perhaps wanted to do as a child. I don't know what to say, because unfortunately I feel that I might have been guilty myself of trying to have things perfect, and it is impossible for that to happen 
[/quote]

The article was interesting and I got from it highlights of good qualities, bad qualities and even quirky qualities...you know...like most of us.  A few times I felt very pointed negatives.  They may well be true.  They also may be a little jaded due to concerns that Terri is directly involved in Kyron's going missing.  I don't know which is true.

[Lazydog1]

Living in a home with an angry parent must have been very upsetting for all these children.
Especially when they can't possibly understand why this person is so angry. 

Yes one would be walking on egg shells.  I grew up in a home such as this and you just don't know when you wake up in the morning if it will be a good day or a terrible day.

From everything I have read so far I am glad Kaine made such a quick move and removed that sweet little girl from this situation.  I do believe she is much happier in her new environment. Now if she could just have that sweet loving brother of hers back home.  She will need to have contact with her big brother also.

Oh what a sad world we live in today. 

[MonkeyFlower]

Good Friday Morning all... I hope this day finds you all well and Happy.  After reading that article the first thing that popped in my head was Borderline Personality Disorder.
I am not a psychiatrist but from past work experience in a field working with adults with challenges Terri seems to have a lot of the classic symptoms of this disorder. She seems to switch from idealizing the people she knows to devaluing them. She also had fluctuations in her self image as well as impulse issues.  Alot of people can live with this disorder and I believe it starts to wane as they get older. I can see Terri reaching a snapping point, kind of like Casey who was in the height of her disorder. This is all just my opinion and I don't even know if the article is accurate. But it certainly could explain Terri's personality and why we all have a hard time trying to understand why she is acting the way she is with Kyron missing. Although her lawyer may tell her to not speak to anyone, Terri also needs something to control right now in her life. By being silent she is in control.
The question we all ask here is did she do something with Kyron? LE seems to think so, Why? Why did the judge also believe the MFH plot and give sole custody to Kaine? Did Terri Fail the lie detector tests because of her personality disorder? Le says Terri is not a POI yet they hand out a flier with her pic on it as well as her friend Dede's, WHY??  Which one of these questions is it?
1. Is Le Grasping at straws?
2. Does Le know more and they are trying to break Terri?
I am sorry Kyron that you like many others are out there somewhere and someone knows where, yet they are either too sick or selfish to say where. I wish there was a cure for the bad in this world.
Have a good day all.

TH has a lot of problems, no doubt. Frequently people have multiple diagnoses (OK I do  diagnose people). Only a thorough exam by a qualified person could say what she "had," not that everyone always agrees on these things either. This involves giving people extensive questionnaires with subscales to test for deception, trying to impress, etc. as well as interviewing people around this person and getting their medical and mental health records. So I am not necessarily disputing that she would get the above diagnosis, but there are other things going on as well. One has to look at the substance abuse also which is there. This also causes a lot of "mood swinging" as people are on, then off their substances or mixing them. Some of these are legal even or at least not illegal yet and some make people absolutely "wacko".
I do think substances are involved here and probably more than just ingesting them.
I hope I am doing the posting OK, someone correct me if not.