Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #22 8/19/10 - 8/21/10

[Lenie]

Two things;

1).  Anyone else read anywhere with any credibility that Desiree is on a houseboat somewhere?

2).  Anyone believe that when fall comes and school goes back into session there is a teeny tiny chance that someone will discover Kyron's body in a place no one thought to look?

I haven't read that about Desiree but I do think that if Kyron is found it will be a totally by accident thing unfortunately.

[txlisa]

Do you suppose that because Kyron wasn't doing as well as he should have been in school that Terri lost it? James was sent away, and wasn't doing well in school, and maybe Terri wanted better kids? Just throwing this out there.

I don't know but it seems she wanted him punished harsher than Kaine did.  She's the step-parent and Kaine should have had the final say in that matter.

Then why didn't Kaine advocate on behalf of his son ... his son's emotional well-being.

I give Kaine and Desiree credit ... if they believed Kyron's emotion well-being was at risk under the care of Terri ... they would have reacted accordingly.  Anything less would imply parental neglect.  No passes.

Janet

++++++

Kaine Horman: "Terri was a good person when we first met"
Posted on July 16, 2010 at 12:12 PM
Updated today at 1:56 PM

In his response to questions from KGW, Kaine acknowledged that people have commented about 'how could he marry a woman like this' and how could he 'not see this coming.'

In response, he wrote: "Terri was a good person when we first met and for several years (I’d say up until 2008). She was always about children (teaching) and helping them grow and develop. Her attitude was always about those types of things first, her own self not even being a priority close to that. I believe that this is the Terri that everyone else saw and got to know as I did."

"Honestly everyone, including myself, that knew her or knows her did not see this coming. She was not the type of person we are seeing right now," added Kaine Horman.

"There were some signs of emotional distress here and there over the past year and a half but not enough of that directed at any one person to conclude she would be capable of anything even remotely close to events of the severity we have all seen."

http://www.kgw.com/news/Kaine-Horman-Terri-was-a-good-person-when-we-first-met-98620944.html

What I understand from the article, Kaine disagreed with Terri about the punishment meted out Kyron regarding the color cards.

[Justamama]

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

(BBM)

You know, I actually saw a program some time ago that said sending your child to their room/bed as punishment will lead to sleeping disorders in adulthood because of the negative associations with that room.  Made sense to me but I still do it.  There's no place else to send them in our house.

[sebastian]

What agenda does Kaine have besides seeing his son returned safely to him?  Please tell me, I would really like to know!

I dunno.  What do we really know about Kaine?  Only what HE wants us to know about.  While he drags out every dirty deed anyone can think of or twist about Terri, while he remains Mr. Clean.  It's not enough to convince me he does or doesn't have an agenda.  More info about him is needed.

It's like walking into a fistfight between two people in middle school.  Are we gonna believe the first and only thing that comes out of one of their mouths?  No!  We're gonna try to seperate the two fighters, each to their corners, get the FULL story, and try to figure it out from there. 

Would love to have such a lengthy article written about Kaine himself, his attitudes, his experiences in life, who he is as a man/husband/father/friend.  Complete with views from his family/friends/coworkers/neighbors.  Maybe with more info about Kaine as the man he actually is, we might be able to reach an honest unbiased conclusion about both he and Terri.  I might even <gasp> fully AGREE with Kaine regarding Terri. 

But what do we have right now?  ONLY what HE himself is allowing the world to know about him and about Terri.  And that's it in a nutshell.    IMO. 

I totally agree with you Wyks, as usual! By the way, you owe me an email!

[Wyks]

I have got to comment on the mark system from the school and Terri's behavior toward this. My daughter gets the colored dot system and has since kindergarten. She has also been diagnosed ADD with anxiety and Pica disorders. (firm believer this all comes from living with her bio parents). During kindergarten she received several red marks, I kept asking her why, after the 3rd time I called the school to speak with the teacher, no call back. The following day she again received a red mark. Sammi said the same thing "I don't know" Well I went to the room to talk to the teacher. The teacher was very belligerent and asked if I had not talked to Sammi. After pulling the info from her, she had told Sammi to take the pencil out of her mouth, after that every day that she saw Sammi with the pencil in her mouth she gave her a red mark, said that she knew she was not suppose to have the pencil in her mouth she should not have to remind her every day. After I saw the pencils, she was not putting the pencil in her mouth, she was eating them from the erasers down and had eaten 4 pencils. I asked the teacher if she had any idea of what Pica was. At this time I requested that a note accompany any mark other than a green mark. Had to fight with the whole school system over this. During any of Sammi's re-evaluations for ADD and other disorders I have to have very close communications with the teachers. If Terri thought that Kyron was having issues I feel she was doing right by staying up with it on a daily basis.
               During 2nd grade Sammi got into the habit of picking her nose and eating it. I found out about this because she was crying after school one day because none of the other kids would have anything to do with her. I went to the school the next morning and found out that this had been going on for weeks. She did not do it at home because she did not feel the anxiety that she felt at school. But because after several weeks the teacher did not see fit to tell the parent Sammi was shunned by her school mates.

One other thing I wanted to hit on, in the story about Terri I wonder if the whole pregnancy was a bad emotional deal. Kaine said in the article that the pregnancy was a shock to him as he thought they were NOT going to have children.

Not defending what she may have done to Kyron on June 4th. Only defending her right to question the teacher on the behavioral issues.

YES!!!!!  And then there's this aspect......... The teacher and their reasoning for whatever treatment of the student.  It's not ALL about the student misbehaving, it really *could* involve the teacher's expectations of "good behavior", etc. 

Back in the day (and I know, things they have a'changed)... I was receiving bad mark after bad mark.  Finally, parents went in and talked with teacher.  I was left-handed.  "Was" being the operative word.  Back in a day when being left-handed must have just been viewed as evil.  My bad marks for the day had nothing to do with 'bad behavior' on my part, and everyyyyyyyything to do with the fact that I couldn't/wouldn't pick up that pencil with my right hand.  Sigh.

The "whole" story really needs to be found out, no matter who is telling what, in ANY situation.  IMO. 

[seahorse]

Sorry, I have to disagree with the discipline thing.  I think what Terri wanted Kaine to do was excessive and not necessary.

Well I disagree with you completely. She was parenting Kyron.

Do you feel it is reasonable to expect perfect behavior in the classroom every day? There are 4 colors of cards. If my (or any other child) had perfect behavior every single day in the classroom, I would find that to be a little strange. We all want our children to be perfect, but if a child gets 29 greens and one card that is the step lower than a green, do we ground them for that (if so, then for how long)? My point is we all have varying parenting styles. There is usually more than one way to get from point A to point B; however, expecting perfection from a child can set up just as many issues as allowing chaos to rule IMO. I have no idea if Terri was too punitive or expected perfection from Kyron. If she wanted excessive consequences for any behavior that was one iota less than perfect, that could be an indicator of other issues. All I can reasonably discern from the article is that Kaine and Terri did not agree on the management of these cards nor on the potential consequences.

To punish a child on a daily basis based on a color card can be detrimental to a childs self-esteem.  After a while the poor kid will question if they can ever do anything right.  

She was in the process (step by step) of getting rid of Kyron one way or another.  The purpose of these steps would lead
to commit Kyron to an institutional facility for Autism.  I would bet my stuffed animals she had that up her sleeve. IMO.

oh my...

  Tracygirl, my theory may sound a bit imaginative, but look at SM, she is cunning.  She had plans for the child. IMO

Well they just don't institutionalize children with autism now a days. It just took me by surprise thats all.   

Tracygirl,

She said (supposedly) that Kyron was "shaking and staring in outer space"    She wanted a Doctor to check him, for what?

What would SM intentions would have been?  He was shaking because of her, most likely, and staring in outer space?  All kids
stare in outer space or Daydream.

What was she up to? 

[no rose colored glasses]

Two things;

1).  Anyone else read anywhere with any credibility that Desiree is on a houseboat somewhere?

2).  Anyone believe that when fall comes and school goes back into session there is a teeny tiny chance that someone will discover Kyron's body in a place no one thought to look?

I thought that I read somewhere that Desiree and family rented a houseboat for August, but have no idea if they went.  Yes, I certainly did think that come school time little Kyron would be found in a place no one thought to look.

[seahorse]

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

(BBM)

You know, I actually saw a program some time ago that said sending your child to their room/bed as punishment will lead to sleeping disorders in adulthood because of the negative associations with that room.  Made sense to me but I still do it.  There's no place else to send them in our house.

Justamama 

I was never sent to my room, I was made to clean for punishment.  I think it was a good idea, it kept me busy and I accomplished
something at the same time.  Parents should give a dust cloth to children to keep them busy. 

[no rose colored glasses]

seahorse I think everyone daydreams, but maybe Kyron wasn't daydreaming and had other issues, just don't know.

[txlisa]

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

(BBM)

You know, I actually saw a program some time ago that said sending your child to their room/bed as punishment will lead to sleeping disorders in adulthood because of the negative associations with that room.  Made sense to me but I still do it.  There's no place else to send them in our house.

Justamama 

I was never sent to my room, I was made to clean for punishment.  I think it was a good idea, it kept me busy and I accomplished
something at the same time.  Parents should give a dust cloth to children to keep them busy. 

Heh.  Good idea!

[Tracygirl]

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

Well I suppose we will see how this all turns out in about 10 years. Everyone has a different approach. I am a bit old fashion in my parenting style. My children are praised for positive behavior and help accountable for negative behavior. I do not hit, never have raised a hand to my children, they just get the look and they know what that means.

[sebastian]

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

(BBM)

You know, I actually saw a program some time ago that said sending your child to their room/bed as punishment will lead to sleeping disorders in adulthood because of the negative associations with that room.  Made sense to me but I still do it.  There's no place else to send them in our house.

Justamama 

I was never sent to my room, I was made to clean for punishment.  I think it was a good idea, it kept me busy and I accomplished
something at the same time.  Parents should give a dust cloth to children to keep them busy. 

Lol Seahorse! We tried that once. We sent the kids out to pull weeds when they were in trouble and they just sat there arguing while not doing much of anything. That punishment did not last, lol. I have always read that if you put a child in timeout it should be relative to their age. For example, if you child is 5, a 5 minute time out is appropriate. When the kids got older, taking the computer and or phone away was the best punishment.

[Tamikosmom]

Exactly!  I don't know why the hostility towards Kaine, but there were those on the 'net **cough**42ndState**cough** spreading rumors about him without any facts to back it up.

txlisa

Where are the "facts" to back up your accusations against Terri and DeDe.

The handling of this case by LE in regards to PR has allowed "feelings" regarding the major players to rule.

Janet

The facts as presented when put together!  The landscaper, MFH plot, deceptive answers on polygraph, the throw away phones, and the timeline for June 4th.  And no, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young are not in collusion with the MCSO to railroad Terri Horman and Dede Spicher.

txlisa

I am referring to "facts" regarding your implications encompassing the Kyron and Terri's relationship.

Janet

++++

Damn!  No wonder the kid was shy and timid!  He probably had to walk on eggshells around her!

I shudder to think what she did to that poor child when no one else was around!

I think Kyron was Terri's "whipping boy."  The easiest target of her growing frustrations.  I don't think any discipline she did to that child was out of love. MOO!

I think Kyron was Terri's "whipping boy."  The easiest target of her growing frustrations.  I don't think any discipline she did to that child was out of love. MOO!

[Lenie]

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

Well I suppose we will see how this all turns out in about 10 years. Everyone has a different approach. I am a bit old fashion in my parenting style. My children are praised for positive behavior and help accountable for negative behavior. I do not hit, never have raised a hand to my children, they just get the look and they know what that means.

I can see this whole generation of children with their children. "do you want a red mark young man?"

[Wyks]

After reading about this color coding system I have some serious doubts about my own parenting ability.  WOW, I'm LAZY.

I think that expecting perfect behavior out of a second grader every single day of the week is completely unrealistic.

Maybe I shouldn't be so laid back.  BREAD AND WATER TONIGHT! 

Justamama it really isn't as bad as it sounds. The teachers do not require perfect behavior. To me it seems more like the counting thing I did with my older kids when they were growing up. If I got to 3 they new they were getting punished. Red here is for a very bad day, kinda like the kid completely ignored the teacher SEVERAL times. That is why I could not understand about Sammi getting a red, she is growing up with 2 old people and very respectful.

Hey I STILL count!  I swear even the dogs know when I'm getting to "3"!! 

When I first read about this system I thought it was actually a pretty good idea.  I wouldn't want to be a teacher for anything.  But that's for another thread.

 

With my dogs, I carry pieces of kibble in my left pocket.  They know it's there, no matter what we are doing.  Always to my left, they follow me.  To the kitchen, to the bathroom, outside to move the sprinkler.  Noses to my left pocket.  And when they have been good, and sometimes for no reason at all, 'unexpected', I give them each a kibble.  Did they get anything special?  Nope.  They did however, get rewarded for good behavior, and just for being the precious beings they are.  They like it, they expect it, and they strive to do what it takes to get a kibble. 

Humans are no different.  Altho a smile, word of praise, 'atta boy/girl', hug, or 'job well done', might work better than kibble. 

[Justamama]

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

(BBM)

You know, I actually saw a program some time ago that said sending your child to their room/bed as punishment will lead to sleeping disorders in adulthood because of the negative associations with that room.  Made sense to me but I still do it.  There's no place else to send them in our house.

Justamama 

I was never sent to my room, I was made to clean for punishment.  I think it was a good idea, it kept me busy and I accomplished
something at the same time.  Parents should give a dust cloth to children to keep them busy. 

This is an excellent idea and one I intend to implement in this household.  Now, the BIGGER question is, as an adult how clean and tidy are you?  Do you clean when you are mad and upset?  This is interesting.

[Tracygirl]

Sorry, I have to disagree with the discipline thing.  I think what Terri wanted Kaine to do was excessive and not necessary.

Well I disagree with you completely. She was parenting Kyron.

Do you feel it is reasonable to expect perfect behavior in the classroom every day? There are 4 colors of cards. If my (or any other child) had perfect behavior every single day in the classroom, I would find that to be a little strange. We all want our children to be perfect, but if a child gets 29 greens and one card that is the step lower than a green, do we ground them for that (if so, then for how long)? My point is we all have varying parenting styles. There is usually more than one way to get from point A to point B; however, expecting perfection from a child can set up just as many issues as allowing chaos to rule IMO. I have no idea if Terri was too punitive or expected perfection from Kyron. If she wanted excessive consequences for any behavior that was one iota less than perfect, that could be an indicator of other issues. All I can reasonably discern from the article is that Kaine and Terri did not agree on the management of these cards nor on the potential consequences.

To punish a child on a daily basis based on a color card can be detrimental to a childs self-esteem.  After a while the poor kid will question if they can ever do anything right.  

She was in the process (step by step) of getting rid of Kyron one way or another.  The purpose of these steps would lead
to commit Kyron to an institutional facility for Autism.  I would bet my stuffed animals she had that up her sleeve. IMO.

oh my...

  Tracygirl, my theory may sound a bit imaginative, but look at SM, she is cunning.  She had plans for the child. IMO

Well they just don't institutionalize children with autism now a days. It just took me by surprise thats all.   

Tracygirl,

She said (supposedly) that Kyron was "shaking and staring in outer space"    She wanted a Doctor to check him, for what?

What would SM intentions would have been?  He was shaking because of her, most likely, and staring in outer space?  All kids
stare in outer space or Daydream.

What was she up to? 

Well according to james she was the one that found he needed glasses so perhaps she was just wanting to find out why he was staring or spacing out. Maybe he did have issues? We don't really know.

[Scatty]

What agenda does Kaine have besides seeing his son returned safely to him?  Please tell me, I would really like to know!

I cannot speak for Kaine Horman.  You would have to ask him this question.

Okay, well I take it that his only agenda is getting his son back. 

Well I think it is fair to say that Kaines opinions right now are a little slanted. He is upset with Terri and blaming her for his son having gone missing. I am not saying he has this right or not, 

I too might be slightly suspicious of someone who tried to have me killed. Stranger abduction, or the psycho from home. Tough decision--not.

[Tracygirl]

My son has a folder and his teacher writes his positives and negatives.  If he has more negatives than positives, we sit down and discuss why and what he should do to improve.  I just think making a child go to his room on a nearly daily basis doesn't teach the child anything.

Well I suppose we will see how this all turns out in about 10 years. Everyone has a different approach. I am a bit old fashion in my parenting style. My children are praised for positive behavior and help accountable for negative behavior. I do not hit, never have raised a hand to my children, they just get the look and they know what that means.

I can see this whole generation of children with their children. "do you want a red mark young man?"

lol...if only all classroom would do something like Kyrons teacher had. If you have been into a classroom lately it is entirely different then when we were in school. There is actual chatter and a constant buzzing of children talking.

[txlisa]

Exactly!  I don't know why the hostility towards Kaine, but there were those on the 'net **cough**42ndState**cough** spreading rumors about him without any facts to back it up.

txlisa

Where are the "facts" to back up your accusations against Terri and DeDe.

The handling of this case by LE in regards to PR has allowed "feelings" regarding the major players to rule.

Janet

The facts as presented when put together!  The landscaper, MFH plot, deceptive answers on polygraph, the throw away phones, and the timeline for June 4th.  And no, Kaine Horman and Desiree Young are not in collusion with the MCSO to railroad Terri Horman and Dede Spicher.

txlisa

I am referring to "facts" regarding your implications encompassing the Kyron and Terri's relationship.

Janet

++++

Damn!  No wonder the kid was shy and timid!  He probably had to walk on eggshells around her!

I shudder to think what she did to that poor child when no one else was around!

I think Kyron was Terri's "whipping boy."  The easiest target of her growing frustrations.  I don't think any discipline she did to that child was out of love. MOO!

I think Kyron was Terri's "whipping boy."  The easiest target of her growing frustrations.  I don't think any discipline she did to that child was out of love. MOO!

The crying about not wanting to leave Desiree.  Staying in his room until being told he could leave.  The comments Terri made on Facebook about Kyron.  Those little things added up send up red flags for me.