Harry Oakes - Search Dogs

[Kokos Cat]

so do you think he will be allowed to search?

the question was has the lead been followed up, and have you been allowed to search, was that no to both?

Oh, sorry, I believe that is correct.  "No" to both.   

[Kokos Cat]

I should clarify:  The FBI will probably eventually respond, under pressure from the public and/or media.  But in the past, it's probably been a turf war between them (local LE vs. FBI)

Now.... maybe this will change, though!  If what was said in the press conference is true... they may be more open to help.

Undoubtedly LE's search dogs have been on the property.  However, they were at Ward Weaver's 7 times, according to Oakes, and found nothing.    We have a big problem with SAR in Oregon.

Oakes blames he handlers, not the dogs, for this situation, by the way.  He says that even an untrained dog will alert to a cadaver.  According to Oakes, the handlers are not responding to the dogs!

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THE ONLY WAY THAT HARRY OAKES WILL GAIN ACCESS TO THAT PROPERTY IS IF KAINE HORMAN AGREES TO IT.   

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[sackyattack]

so do you think he will be allowed to search?

Sacky,

Sadly, no.  I do not.  Not if LE has anything to say about it.  Not unless their relationship with Oakes drastically changes.  But it hasn't, even recently.  Everything that he reports is ignored by LE. And, this includes the FBI.  Oakes found the bodies of Miranda Gaddis and Ashley Pond but LE ignored the reports for 5 months, until Ward Weaver struck again.  His last victim escaped.  Still, he was not considered a suspect in the case.  If the public had not hosted a vigil, it is unlikely those girls in Oregon City would have ever been found.  Here's the story per MSNBC:  http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/


According to Oakes, this is the reason he will never work for LE in Oregon: http://k9sardog.blogspot.com/2009/07/facebook-harry-oakes.html

"I wasn’t welcome within search camps within his own state of Oregon" only after I testified against the Oregon State Sheriff’s Association on House Bill 3093, where I testified on the mismanagement of SAR in Oregon that have cost lives. I was told by Lt Neil James that," if I testified against the OSSA at the HB hearing, I would never be used by the O.S.S.A. again".
I testified and told the truth. The Oregon State Police, The Oregon Mountain Rescue Council, the Oregon Fire Fighters Association all supported me in my efforts on HB 3093. Trying to update SAR laws in the state of Oregon which hadn’t been updated since 1974. Because of my testimony, the O.S.S.A. refuses to use my services because I made them look bad in the OREGON SENATE.

if kyron is alive and could have been helped by this that is terrible.
if kyron is not alive and harry oaks could have found his body long ago, then we would not have dragged all the le and concerned community through this for 15 weeks and over a million dollars. how much pride costs. not to mention that if kyron is deceased and was found sooner, then the parents wouldnt have had to go through this never ending nightmare
perhaps though with all the other investigations coming from this one, (I hope thats true) perhaps another childs life will be spared from a similar fate.

[melisb]

I'm wondering if maybe (I AM a HO supporter by the way) LE really knows, in a way, what happened to Ky and that he is far, far , away from anywhere HO would want to search?  I mean Ky is, was probably not in his home or school area since the first moment he was snatched.  I think that after watching the PC we are going to find what happened to be so sinister and sickening that it will be unthinkable.  I just don't believe HO could be any help and I was all for him being there from the get go.  Yes, it couldn't hurt for him to try, I just think Ky was taken far away in an instant.  I think he should have been allowed to start from the school with a scent.  Not chasing nondescript scents.

[sassifrass]

Hi Monkeys!

I sincerely feel your frustrations about Harry.    This is not over until the fat red haired lady sings! (sorry, had to put that in there referencing TH) 

IMO after the move of LE not informing DY and KH of the update of changes in staffing in this case, I think the possibility of them being more open to outside help grows stronger.

Do I believe that Harry will be able to search KH's residence? Sadly, no.

Do I believe that Harry will be given a scent article of Kyrons? Yes. 

[sassifrass]

I wanted to add one more thing.

The family is very sensitive right now. More than you could imagine. When most people think of SAR, they associate it with death scents, when in fact that is not true. So this is a very delicate situation that must be handled delicately.

I think we can agree that all of us want Kyron home yesterday, and that we wish things would be checked out quickly, because that is how WE think WE would do it, but we're not in their shoes. Right now, everyone is feeling frustration and I've come to realize in the past week, that I'm not helping in the search for Kyron, if I'm frustrated. I've chose to walk away from certain areas because I was feeling frustrated.

So with regards to Harry, just hang in there. Things will move at the pace that they should move at. 

[Kokos Cat]

Sassi,

Thanks for all the hard work on Kyron's case. 

[sassifrass]

Thank you Kokos cat, and to all of the Monkeys supporting Harry's willingness to help! 

There are a few things bothering me about both the THSP and the NOW Dede support page. There is one person, Karen Anne Newton, who is on both support pages. Karen Anne Newton, according to her FB page, http://www.facebook.com/KarenAnneRN is a child advocate for missing and abused woman and children. This woman is supporting people that are highly suspect regarding Kyrons disappearance, and yet she is also a proclaimed advocate for missing children. I think, IMO, she has lost her way in the fight to end this madness of adults murdering and assisting in the disappearance of children. 

The other person who I saw as a supporter on the DDS support page was Sonja Grace. Now if you recall, this the self professed psychic that stated she knew exactly where Kyron was. What erks me about her is that Desiree's family reached out to her and asked her for help, but it was all about the money for her. 

The point I'm trying to make here is that we have 2 people who claim to be advocates for missing children, and they are supporting the suspected people in the Kyron case. Yet, on the other side you have Harry. His personality is far from perfect but he is willing to do this for free. Why? Because he honestly wants to find out what happen to Kyron. THAT is what a true advocate does!

Bless you Harry! 

[sackyattack]

good post sassi.
i woke up kinda thinking about the harry oakes part of this case and one thing i was thinking, maybe kinda morbid, is that his  ability to find scents has never been questioned, just his personality as far as i know. so this leads me to beleive that there may well be something on the horman property worth checking out, but i was thinking what if its something related to previous owners, or neighbors or just a drive by thing when the property was in between owners. it made me think there may be another missing person case solved by his searching that property and surely kaine and desiree would be helpful if they thought they could put someone else's mind at ease regarding a missing family member. on a lighter note, it could have been an animal scent?ie elk deer etc.? i think also in case the hormans read this that kaines personal life may be about to be exposed somewhat but that it will only be a small distraction to finding out what happened to kyron and that i pray that the Lord will be with them during this time. it will be better if things come out before this case goes to trial in my opinion. am sorry for this ever happening to their family.

[Claycat]

Sassi, Karen Anne is a friend of mine at WS.  She is also a member here.  I believe she is very concerned for the missing and belongs to many forums.  She is probably gleaning information wherever she can just like we are.

[sassifrass]

Sassi, Karen Anne is a friend of mine at WS.  She is also a member here.  I believe she is very concerned for the missing and belongs to many forums.  She is probably gleaning information wherever she can just like we are.

If that is the case Claycat, then I openly apologize and retract my statement. 

From my point of view, I would never be associated with one of those support pages. It would go against my beliefs and standards. So I hope you can see my point of view when I made that statement. Basically, you don't have to join the group to see or get any info. Just saying. 

p.s. Thanks for your reply Claycat. I've always admired your honesty and kindness towards others. 

[Tracygirl]

Sorry I am having a brain fade at the moment. What is the other guys name that does the scent tracking? As a compromise if everyone hates Hary, can he and Harry work together or this other man have his dogs search.
Kaine you need to allow this, there is not a reason on earth it should not be done. Don't want to be mean but come on already.

[Claycat]

Sassi, Karen Anne is a friend of mine at WS.  She is also a member here.  I believe she is very concerned for the missing and belongs to many forums.  She is probably gleaning information wherever she can just like we are.

If that is the case Claycat, then I openly apologize and retract my statement. 

From my point of view, I would never be associated with one of those support pages. It would go against my beliefs and standards. So I hope you can see my point of view when I made that statement. Basically, you don't have to join the group to see or get any info. Just saying. 

p.s. Thanks for your reply Claycat. I've always admired your honesty and kindness towards others. 

I would not join either, Sassi, but others may have a different reasoning.  I don't know. 

I admire you, too, Sassi!  You have worked so hard doing your own part to help find Kyron!     Back at you!

[sassifrass]

So, I posed some questions to Harry. 1st one:

The quesion I have is this: "Since it's been 3 months that Kyron has been missing, and let's just say he IS alive for the purpose of this question, would your dogs be able to pick up a trail of him, this late in the case"? At the very least, would they know where he's been?
You know your dogs and their capabilities, so this is why I ask.
Thanks!

Answer: Yes a search dog can pick up his scent for 1 year.
thanks
harry

2nd one: What exactly would you need for this? Also, it will probably have to be mailed to you so what would be the best way to have this sent to you? Do they need to enclose it in a plastic bag?

 

Answer: still waiting for the answer.

[sassifrass]

So, I just got off the phone with Harry. He's actually not as seemingly belligerent as he appears in his blogs.    He's quite pleasant and respectful. 

I explained that this, the request for a scent article, has to be handled extremely delicately, and he not only agreed, but was totally empathetic.

So we will see what happens. This could be either the beginning or the end of the road regarding Harry's search for Kyron.

We'll need a lot of prayers on this one Monkeys. 

[sassifrass]

I should clarify:  The FBI will probably eventually respond, under pressure from the public and/or media.  But in the past, it's probably been a turf war between them (local LE vs. FBI)

Now.... maybe this will change, though!  If what was said in the press conference is true... they may be more open to help.

Undoubtedly LE's search dogs have been on the property.  However, they were at Ward Weaver's 7 times, according to Oakes, and found nothing.    We have a big problem with SAR in Oregon.

Oakes blames he handlers, not the dogs, for this situation, by the way.  He says that even an untrained dog will alert to a cadaver.  According to Oakes, the handlers are not responding to the dogs!

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THE ONLY WAY THAT HARRY OAKES WILL GAIN ACCESS TO THAT PROPERTY IS IF KAINE HORMAN AGREES TO IT.   

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That's not necessarily true. If Harry has a scent article, and comes up with a death scent (God I hate even typing that), because he is SAR certified, he would report it to LE and Kaine would have no choice.

There is always a work around when someone is being stubborn. 

[Tracygirl]

Thanks sass for the update. This needs to happen, period. Glad that it can be over riden somehow although I think Kaine should just allow him to search the property.

[sassifrass]

Thanks sass for the update. This needs to happen, period. Glad that it can be over riden somehow although I think Kaine should just allow him to search the property.

I totally agree TG! There is something hinky about Kaine not allowing him on the property, IMO. It could be as easy an explanation that LE told him he may possibly disturb or contaminate potential evidence or because of his belief that Kyron is still alive. Maybe he just couldn't handle it emotionally if Harry did find something there?

 I don't know, but I DO know, I would be doing the complete opposite. 

[Kokos Cat]

Sorry I am having a brain fade at the moment. What is the other guys name that does the scent tracking? As a compromise if everyone hates Hary, can he and Harry work together or this other man have his dogs search.
Kaine you need to allow this, there is not a reason on earth it should not be done. Don't want to be mean but come on already.

Hiya TracyGirl!

I believe it's Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch.  Haven't been able to quickly find his website (don't know if he has one).  Below please find an article about him that I grabbed... I don't even have time to read it.  Don't know much about the source, either. 

For what it's worth: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/texas_equusearch/1.html 

I believe I may have been the one ??? to ask Harry if he would consider working with Tim Miller (check back in this forum to confirm) and he said:  "YES".  Or did I dream this?!?  Sorry... I'm like the white rabbit here... I'm late, I'm late, I'm late...  I apologize in advance if I'm taking credit for someone else in the Q & A portion of this! 

Good luck Monkeys! 

[Kokos Cat]

if kyron is alive and could have been helped by this that is terrible.
if kyron is not alive and harry oaks could have found his body long ago, then we would not have dragged all the le and concerned community through this for 15 weeks and over a million dollars. how much pride costs...[edited by me for space]
perhaps though with all the other investigations coming from this one, (I hope thats true) perhaps another childs life will be spared from a similar fate.

Sacky:  "How much pride costs".... yes, I agree.  I couldn't have said it better. 

As to what the future holds for search and rescue in Oregon and the fate of unfortunate victims that go missing here.... I can only say that all summer I've held out hope that Kyron would change all that.   For the first time, I feel my optimism slipping, hopefully just temporarily and due to the strangeness of this case.     

If we band together, though, and keep an "open mind" collectively, it may still be possible.  The monkeys and the public may determine the outcome of this Kyron's case, IMO. 

Respectfully,

K. Cat