Natalee Case Discussion #846 9/12/10 - 9/21/10

[Tamikosmom]

To put a body in a trap..
This trap weighs in at ... 700 lbs.


It is handled by a crane.


http://www.fishex.com/galleries/king-crab-fishing/photo-gallery.html

I gotta run before the women with the Pooky needles find me.. 

Edward
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #845 8/29/2010 -
« Reply #835 on: September 10, 2010, 10:36:08 PM »

I know what you mean.. But that fish trap weight is about a ton ... 2000 lbs.
So it would not be Joran dumping it there. It would have had to have been dropped off a very large boat or ship.

<snipped>

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8341.msg1226458#msg1226458
 

oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #743 3/14 -
« Reply #682 on: March 18, 2008, 01:28:45 PM »

I learned from a source that there is only one place/person(?) on Aruba where a large commercial fish trap would have originated.  This should make it a reasonable venture figuring out who's trap we found.  The next logical move would be after finding them, asking them to explain their missing trap.  1) How did they lose it  2) why was it lost where it was 3) what were it's contents when it was "lost" and 3) what boat was used to transport the trap.

Any ideas of who may have possessed such a trap?
Approx. 7.5 x 7.5 x 2.5ft, and 200-300lbs, hundreds of feet of rope complete with 4-point rigging.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.msg366260#msg366260

[klaasend]

EDWARD - what is to say that a body could not be taken down to a trap already on the ocean floor?   The trap was only in 90 feet of water (more or less) so a weighted down body could be easily guided down to the trap and placed inside so it wouldn't float to the surface.  Say you weight down a body that is wrapped in a tarp, guide it down and put it in the trap?

Besides, all we can go by is Kyle's description of the trap.

Or even in a body bag or a zip up sleeping bag.  I'm just saying there are more ways to get something in that trap than placing it in above the water and lowering it in.

It was even suggested at one time that trap was being used as a DRUG drop.

[SuzieQ]

Doesn't look like Dennis Jacobs has lost any weight, maybe gained.  Picture in Diario today.

[Tamikosmom]

A TRUE GRID SEARCH MISSION?

Natalee Holloway's Uncle

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #690 on: March 13, 2008, 06:56:18 PM »

I don't believe that Kyle or anyone else is allowed to review the case documents, according to the policy of the prosecutors office. I thought the beauty of the Persistence is that they were to do a true grid seach mission which depends not on psychics or even tips from the authorities, and as such their work would be independent of the investigation. They were there simply to attempt to search a predefined area for Natalee's remains. So I am not sure why they have been lured into defending the work of the Aruban authorities or a discussion of the validity of the investigation as they are not knowledgeable as to the investigation, other than what they have been told by these Arubans. There are an awful lot of highly educated people who have been chumped by people of far less formal education. A well trained police force is not thwarted by a grieving mother and the media.

And Kyle, I by no means am being disrespectful, I think you are brilliant, sincerely. But I don't think your education or work experience has prepared you for a cover up by these types of people. And I think you may be severely underestimating the education, experience, and wisdom of the monkeys and other coverup believers. Don't let them make a fool of you. We need you.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364756#msg364756


A VISION?

The Detective and The Detective's Brother

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case.
 
Kyle Kingman: Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude.

Kyle Kingman: He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed.

 Kyle Kingman: The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. 
 
Kyle Kingman: Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude.

Kyle Kingman:  I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  If a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

Kyle Kingman:  The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys


ARUBAN AUTHORITIES

Silvetti and Richardson

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[2NJSons_Mom]

Doesn't look like Dennis Jacobs has lost any weight, maybe gained.  Picture in Diario today.

He is not a healthy looking member of Aruban law enforcement and it wasn't frosted flakes that got him to that size.   

[klaasend]

Wow he's huge 

[Edward]

I have never seen any evidence of any of the 3 boys diving fishing or anything having to do with water.
I think it is just computers, gambling, chasing and druging girls and working on the boat.
 

[Edward]

EDWARD - what is to say that a body could not be taken down to a trap already on the ocean floor?   The trap was only in 90 feet of water (more or less) so a weighted down body could be easily guided down to the trap and placed inside so it wouldn't float to the surface.  Say you weight down a body that is wrapped in a tarp, guide it down and put it in the trap?

Besides, all we can go by is Kyle's description of the trap.

Or even in a body bag or a zip up sleeping bag.  I'm just saying there are more ways to get something in that trap than placing it in above the water and lowering it in.

It was even suggested at one time that trap was being used as a DRUG drop.

Yes the trap for drug runners is referred to as a "mail box"
Drugs leave Venezuela and put into a trap and dropped into the water and then at some point the buyer comes by and hooks onto the trap which is tied by rop or cable and a bouy and pulls it up.
 

[Edward]

Tamikosmom 
Please go to the website I linked to the images and it clearly says the weight on the traps they have.. which are also the pictures I posted.

It is only a suggestion for discussion. I would not want to change your mind.   

[Edward]

So I was wrong on the 2000 lbs... Go Ahead and Poke me. 

[Tamikosmom]

Wow he's huge 

At this period in time ... Dennis Jacobs did not have a clue in regards to the unrelenting force that was sitting across the desk from him ... the unrelenting force he was treating with such disrespect ... the unrelenting force the Island of Aruba was was going to have to reckon with for years to come.

Janet

+++++


Loving Natalee – Beth Holloway

Page 60:  He pushes one hand and then the other down and across his belly, which is extended by his rearing back.  He says, “I’ll have to eat my frosted flakes first,” and then, running a hand across his jaw, adds, “and get a shave before I can deal with you.”  And with that he gets up from the chair, exits through the little swinging door, and disappears ….

[Tamikosmom]

Tamikosmom 
Please go to the website I linked to the images and it clearly says the weight on the traps they have.. which are also the pictures I posted.

It is only a suggestion for discussion. I would not want to change your mind.   

For now ... I will trust the qualifications of Kyle Kingman to decern the measurements and weight of the specific trap discover in Aruban waters ... the specific trap that Kyle Kingman determine may have been the remains of Natalee Holloway.

Janet

+++++

The Search for Natalee Holloway
Monday, November 26, 2007

I. Mobilization

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman


Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

[Tamikosmom]

SELF EDIT - LAST POST

may have been the remains s/b may have held the remains

[klaasend]

Valentijn van der Sloot was already scuba certified by the time Natalee went missing.  I would suspect Joran was as well.  We know for a fact that the Gottenbos and many other of Joran's friends had boats readily available to them and likely also were scuba certified.

I have no idea if the Kalpoes even know how to swim. 

[Tamikosmom]

Have a good afternoon all!

I am off.

 

Janet
11:05 AM PT

[Edward]

the qualifications of Kyle Kingman.


http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

[Edward]

Kingman Geophysical Solutions is a consulting geophysical engineering sole proprietorship specializing in managing marine geophysical projects from conception to completion. KGS provides Geological, Geophysical, Marine GIS and Hydrographic survey consultancy services to multiple domestic and international offshore industries and governments with over 60 projects successfully completed to date.

KGS, owned and operated by Kyle Kingman, is recognized by the Society of Industry Leaders as a leader and pioneer in the new field of marine GIS and advanced marine magnetic detection and imaging.

KGS provides both innovative and industry proven solutions for geophysical, geological and hydrographic survey companies who seek efficient and cost effective turn-around from data acquisition to a finalized report and product.

Services Include:

Project Management
-On site project management from conception to completion.

Processing, Interpretation, and Reporting
-Side scan sonar processing, mosaicing, and analysis for all types of geophysical surveys.
-Shallow seismic processing and interpretation for geological and geotechnical assessment, sediment volume estimates, depth of burial, shallow gas, fault mapping, submarine geohazard evaluation.
-Advanced magnetometer and gradiometer data processing and analysis for locating submarine utilities, obstructions, debris detection, mine detection, UXO, or archaeological findings.
-Multibeam and single beam sonar charting, bathymetric contouring, slope stability analysis, route generation, slope maps, aspect maps, and other cartography.
Client Representing
-Provides client representative services ensuring geophysical survey data quality and suitability, GIS and chart data quality, enforce proper safety and environment (HSE) procedures, real-time route engineering on-site or onboard, and provides live feeds back to the office.
Marine GIS
-ArcInfo GIS –based solutions combining geological, geophysical and geographical information to solve complex problems often in real time.
-Cartography and charting of marine survey data
-Real-time tracking of vessels, ROVs, AUVs and sea-plows, in a GIS environment during installations, inspections, burials, removals, etc. enabling critical real-time command and engineering decisions based on all the relevant information

Kyle Kingman has successfully played an important role in the following project types:
Pre-lay and post-lay pipeline and cable route surveys (both fiber optic and HVDC), subsea damage assessments, site surveys, rig placement, submarine utility locating, PLEM, and other energy related surveys, LNG deep water and shallow water terminals, hazard and risk assessments, wreck location and investigations, offshore wind farms, deep water excavations, and more.

For more information contact: Kyle Kingman - oceanexploration@gmail.com

http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

[Tamikosmom]

the qualifications of Kyle Kingman.


http://geosolutions.blogspot.com/

Thanks.

Very impressive!  I can only assume Kyle had the ability to determine the size and weight of the trap discovered by his sonar scan and ... analyzed through his ROV imagery.

Janet

[texasmom]

TM - is the the sex abuse case you posted that disappeared?

http://www.24ora.com/local-mainmenu-5/21987-mama-di-victima-di-abuso-sexual-ta-evalua-pa-bay-corte-europeo.html

Mama di victima di abuso sexual ta evalua pa bay Corte Europeo      Print      E-mail
Tuesday, 14 September 2010 01:09

Mama di e criatura di apenas 3 aña di edad cu a bira victima di abuso sexual di su mesun tata Inspector di Polis, awor ta para na un crusada dificil. Aki na Aruba su opcionnan legal ta cabando, pero esey no ta nifica final di su bataya. E mama ta boga pa husticia y lo sigui lucha te final. Dia 6 di februari ultimo, un mucha muhe di 3 aña a conta su wela cu su tata ta mishi bruto cu ne na su parti delicado. Investigacion preliminar a demostra cu no tabatin penetracion ni rastro di maltrato. Pero asina mes, e mucha muhe a keda para riba cu e no kier bay mas cerca su tata pa e motibo ya menciona. E mesun storia e mucha a conta na varios sicologo, na sikiater di mucha y na su dokter di cas.

E mama, un hurista trahando na Ministerio Publico a entrega un denuncia na su mesun colega Fiscal. E biaha aki no como un miembro di nos poder hudicial, sino como un mama luchando pa husticia pa su unico yui. Particular den e caso aki ta cu e tata ta nada mas y nada menos cu un Inspector di Polis, encarga entre otro cu e departamento di JZP cu ta investiga e mesun tipo di casonan asina.

Procurador General a haye sinta cu un caso masha dificil, pasobra di un banda e tin un colega di dje di Ministerio Publico y na otro banda un Inspector di Polis di cual nan ta traha hunto tur dia pa bon di e muchanan y ciudadanonan abusa na Aruba. Ambos persona, tanto e mama como e tata, ta figuranan importante den nos sistema hudicial y cu amplio conocemento den e tipo di asuntonan delicado asina.

Pa evita cu mayan lo tilda e caso di falta di neutralidad, a laga polisnan experto den interogacion di mucha atende e caso. Ora nan a saca nan conclusion, a manda e caso pa coleganan di Hulanda pa nan evalua e caso y duna un conseho. Riba nan conseho e ora Ministerio Publico a dicidi di "seponeer" e caso, argumentando cu e pruebanan riba mes no ta suficiente pa ni sikiera cuminsa un caso penal contra e tata. E mama, haciendo uzo di su derecho, a apela e decision aki na Corte Comun di Antiyas y Aruba. Aki tres Hues a bolbe evalua henter e caso y na final a dicidi cu nan ta di acuerdo cu no tin base pa cuminsa un caso penal contra e Polis.

Claro cu awo e proceso civil lo sigui, awo cu tin mas claridad riba e investigacion penal. E mama a duna di conoce ayera durante e conferencia di prensa cu e kier evita cu su yui mester bay bek pa mira su tata, maske ta 1 bes pa siman.

E mama envolvi ta sinti cu su recursonan legal a cuminsa agota y kier un contesta riba e pregunta: Kico lo sosode awo cu e denuncia haci pa su yui muhe. Ta parse cu si pruebanan no ta suficiente, e ora ta djis tuma un decision sin importa e daño cu ta haci na un pober criatura di apenas 3 aña di edad cu ta un victima di abuso sexual di su mesun tata. Cu esaki den mente, e famia a opta pa busca ayudo cerce Fundacion Lissete Gomes.

Durante un conferencia di prensa, a elabora riba e caso aki y e fundacion ta denuncia publicamente con den e caso aki a dicidi cu no ta uza e raport sicologico ni esun sikiatrico. E fundacion cu ta sali na defensa di muchanan victima di abuso sexual lo manda un carta awo pa Gobernantenan cu e pregunta kico ta sosode e ora cu tur e otro casonan den cual si a uza e mesun raport di e mesun sikiaternan aki.

Abogado di e famia a conta prensa cu hopi procedura a bay diferente den e caso specifico aki. Mr. Amelien Flanegin ta un ex Fiscal y como tal conoce e cultura den Ministerio Publico den su plant'i man. El a cuestiona e procedura uza den e caso aki compara cu otro casonan. A uza ehempel di e caso di e meneer di scol cu a duna un mucha muhe di 12 aña un sunchi, con mesora a detene y encarcel'e. Den e caso aki a entrega keho, a tuma lunanan pa evalua si lo cuminsa cu un investigacion, a manda e caso pa Antias y Hulanda pa despues bin dicidi cu no ta persigui e tata. Un forma hipi diferente compara cu tur otro caso di abuso sexual. Loke ta hala masha atencion tambe ta e hecho cu na Hulanda a argumenta cu no por uza e raportnan sicologico ni sikiatrico pa motibo cu nan no ta na e nivel aceptabel pa por saca afor cu si e mucha muhe ta papiando berdad of no. Awo, ya cu Corte Comun a tuma e asunto aki na serio y a bari e raportnan for di mesa, ta con lo haci den tur e otro casonan cu SI a uza e raportnan di e mesun expertonan aki? Ta bon pa menciona cu aki na Aruba tin 1 solo sicologo di mucha cu ta studia pa investiga estado sicologico di un mucha.

Abogado mr. Amelien Flanegin a bisa cu e mama awor ta evaluando e siguiente pasonan. Un di nan por ta pa hiba e caso pa Corte Europeo di derechonan humano. Un decision final relaciona cu e proceso aki nan no a tuma ainda pero si ta evaluand'e seriamente. Nan no kier critica e departamentonan pero si e sistema con ta atende cu kehonan di criaturanan abusa sexualmente.

Cuerpo Policial mes no ta dunando comentario riba e caso specifico aki. A cumbini cu Ministerio Publico cu nan mes lo mester sali argumenta nan decision cu a wordo ratifica dor di tres Hues imparcial. E tata tampoco no kier duna niun reaccion ainda pero a keda di delibera cu su abogadonan pa dicidi den ki direccion lo sigui.

Obbviamente cu partidonan awor lo drenta e debate civil y niun di dos kier daña nan posicion dilanti Corte civil cu lo mester dicidi cu si e tata lo por sigui mira su yui of no. Den henter e proceso aki, desde februari cu e asunto aki a cuminsa, no a permiti'e mira su yui muhe mas tampoco.

Yes, I think that's it!  One of the pictures is of the two women I saw during the press conference too.

Thanks Klaas!  

[texasmom]

This is the same story in Amigoe.

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_78134.php

Google translation:

Foundation child again at the bell
September 14, 2010, 13:41 (GMT -04:00)

Email this article 
Print this article 
 

Petronia mother and her lawyer Amalin Flanegin at yesterday's press conference organized by Fundacion Gomes Lisette.

ORANGE CITY - In a case of a former employee of the Public Prosecutor (OM) and the former head of Youth and Vice on the alleged abuse of their now three year old daughter that judicial double standards of proof in abuse cases.

Believes that at least the foundation against child abuse, Fundacion Lisette Gomes, who yesterday in a press conference about to raise the alarm. The mother of the toddler and her attorney were present Amalin Flanegin. According to Mother S. Petronia gave her daughter in February that her immoral acts with her father had committed. Because the position of the man it took a while before the woman had lodged. Normally such declarations is done by the police whose father was the head, said the lawyer. The mother finally decided to report it to the Land Recherche. There, too, took a time before action was taken because the functions of the couple in the judiciary.

Evidence
The girl was eventually medically examined by a pediatrician, but with no signs of abuse were found. Studies by a child psychiatrist and a psychologist on the island it was concluded that the toddler was behaving like other children who are abused. Justice let the girl go even further in Curacao by police interrogations there (on video). The prosecution was nevertheless after these investigations and interrogations are not convinced of the evidence to prosecute the father. The prosecution sent the evidence whatsoever for review to the National Expert Group Vice Special Affairs (LEBZ) in the Netherlands. According to attorney Flanegin has never happened before in abuse cases.

LEBZ concluded that errors were made in the questioning of the child and investigations. The prosecution then decided not to prosecute the father, after which the mother was appealed to the Court of Justice. That action, however, she lost recently. According to her lawyer because the judge was also included in the conclusion of the OM that there is insufficient evidence of abuse and thus relied on the report of LEBZ. One of the arguments of the Dutch authorities that the interrogations are not certified by customs investigators have done. "But that's always been true even in cases of other abuse cases, such as investigators, we have not. Why are the experts in this case, also in other abuse cases are used and which defendants are convicted, were suddenly not good? "Said Flanegin. She is now considering for its customer to the European Court of Human Rights to move because of this unfair treatment. "What am I going to say to my child," says the emotional mother yesterday's press conference.