October 24, 2014, 11:06:23 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: NEW SPECIAL SECTION CREATED FOR VIRGINIA AREA MISSING AND MURDERED AND POSSIBLE CONNECTIONS
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Accord  (Read 3731 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Leslie
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2058



WWW
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2007, 06:44:32 PM »

Mrs Red:  I was talking in general terms about many posters and many threads and I am not trying to start a war or make rules.  I have noticed that many discussions get derailed when someone posts something and another person gets hugely affected by it.    I am interested in US policies and how they effect the world we all live in.  All you American voters hold immense power that affects our planet for good or bad.  Your country has huge wealth, military might, technology, etc.  The US is so powerful; it is scary.   I would like to be a part of the discussion because I have some (foreign) insight and a lot of questions.  I am a truthseeker.
Logged

Fox reported...I decided...Click!
nonesuche
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8848



« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2007, 10:42:36 PM »

Leslie-

One poster wishes to rule all posts in this forum, not Mrs Red, so I disagree with your rationale for intimating that Mrs Red was the issue.

It concerns me you are terrified of the US when the greatest harm that might ever come to you and your country from our country, is from the radioactive winds northward post the nuclear blasts from those determined to blow us off the planet.
Logged

I continue to stand with the girl.
Leslie
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2058



WWW
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2007, 06:13:49 AM »

I didn't intimate that Mrs Red was the issue; that was her impression.  She quoted Louise Vargas  "The main thing about almost all of the posts is the writers are so angry..." and me " Too much anger and hostility ...
in her response "Here are two examples of being called hostile and angry.... and if that isn't a slam because I posted my opinion then what is?"
My posts are straightforward and I am not responsible for what people choose to read into them. If they find insults when none were intended, I do not feel the need to apologize.   There would be no point to try to diffuse anger with more anger.  Considering the topic is "Accord" it would be silly of me to start a dispute under that title.  
I don't feel that any poster wants to rule the forum and with all the different threads; how could one writer have that power?  If you really believe that is true then start a new topic and ignore that poster.
I wrote that the US is so powerful that it is scary. I don't live in fear of all the calamities that might happen, because that would be a sad existence.  More people had died in car accidents than in nuclear blasts but that doesn't stop people from getting behind the wheel.  
My concern is that the US government does what it wants and doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.  That power should be in the hands of intelligent, rational people who are elected by a population of intelligent, rational citizens who have knowledge of the facts.   That is what the debate is about; find out the truth and discuss it.
Logged

Fox reported...I decided...Click!
nonesuche
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8848



« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2007, 11:47:37 AM »

Leslie-

Some of us tried to bring the facts forth, we could of course just abandon the war now in Iraq as Clinton did Afghanistan and then regardless of what you feel now - you'd find out what radioactive winds look like and smell like. Yes mistakes were made but certain posters don't want to examine any made by democrats but only republicans? I'm not even a republican but I can clearly see the bias here.

As for your contention previously that some post as if they are smarter than everyone else, IMO you have always posted in that manner. I never found reason to attack you and I will caution you not to attack me nor patronize me.
Logged

I continue to stand with the girl.
mrs. red
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9318



WWW
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2007, 12:26:50 PM »

Quote from: "Leslie"
I didn't intimate that Mrs Red was the issue; that was her impression.  She quoted Louise Vargas  "The main thing about almost all of the posts is the writers are so angry..." and me " Too much anger and hostility ...
in her response "Here are two examples of being called hostile and angry.... and if that isn't a slam because I posted my opinion then what is?"
My posts are straightforward and I am not responsible for what people choose to read into them. If they find insults when none were intended, I do not feel the need to apologize.   There would be no point to try to diffuse anger with more anger.  Considering the topic is "Accord" it would be silly of me to start a dispute under that title.  
I don't feel that any poster wants to rule the forum and with all the different threads; how could one writer have that power?  If you really believe that is true then start a new topic and ignore that poster.
I wrote that the US is so powerful that it is scary. I don't live in fear of all the calamities that might happen, because that would be a sad existence.  More people had died in car accidents than in nuclear blasts but that doesn't stop people from getting behind the wheel.  
My concern is that the US government does what it wants and doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.  That power should be in the hands of intelligent, rational people who are elected by a population of intelligent, rational citizens who have knowledge of the facts.   That is what the debate is about; find out the truth and discuss it.



I haven't seen any debate in here other than about anger, so I quit. I will move on to other threads and continue to post my absolute support for my country. I think the Candian government does what it wants to protect it's citizens, so why shouldn't the US?  It's absolutely astounding to me that all the money and aid we send around the world goes completely unnoticed but woe to us if we don't send that aid. So if we need to be the ones to stand up and take terrorism seriously, so be that too.
That is my opinion.
Logged

To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
Author: Anatole
mrs. red
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9318



WWW
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2007, 12:29:25 PM »

Quote from: "Leslie"
I didn't intimate that Mrs Red was the issue; that was her impression.  She quoted Louise Vargas  "The main thing about almost all of the posts is the writers are so angry..." and me " Too much anger and hostility ...
in her response "Here are two examples of being called hostile and angry.... and if that isn't a slam because I posted my opinion then what is?"
My posts are straightforward and I am not responsible for what people choose to read into them. If they find insults when none were intended, I do not feel the need to apologize.   There would be no point to try to diffuse anger with more anger.  Considering the topic is "Accord" it would be silly of me to start a dispute under that title.  
I don't feel that any poster wants to rule the forum and with all the different threads; how could one writer have that power?  If you really believe that is true then start a new topic and ignore that poster.
I wrote that the US is so powerful that it is scary. I don't live in fear of all the calamities that might happen, because that would be a sad existence.  More people had died in car accidents than in nuclear blasts but that doesn't stop people from getting behind the wheel.  
My concern is that the US government does what it wants and doesn't care what the rest of the world thinks.  That power should be in the hands of intelligent, rational people who are elected by a population of intelligent, rational citizens who have knowledge of the facts.   That is what the debate is about; find out the truth and discuss it.


hello?  that comment is agian stating that I am angry... what else can be read from that?
Logged

To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
Author: Anatole
Leslie
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2058



WWW
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2007, 02:00:12 PM »

I like this guy; Congressman Ron Paul.   He is a Republican from Texas.
http://www.house.gov/paul/
Logged

Fox reported...I decided...Click!
mrs. red
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9318



WWW
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2007, 02:14:25 PM »

I think he is dead out wrong - I do think it is worth what we do there.  Of course, my opinion is formed from talking to soldiers that are serving there and what they tell me is happening.

I also think just liberating suppressed women was well worth the fight.  I don't want to ever hear of women getting stoned to death, being denied educations, and raped at will.  If women were so unimportant as this terrorist regime makes them out to be then, they would just be left alone.

So if we underfund the troops and that gets them killed is that ok?  Why do you care, Leslie about our tax dollars?  You aren't paying taxes to the U.S. - I mean other than you want the war to go away...

 Tell me what solution you have in mind for the Iraqi people?  Does it not encourage you that Hamas is coming to the table today with at least a begninning of an agreement? They may or may not honor it, however it is a beginning.  I think that these are very important issues  - I don't know you, perhaps you don't agree that terrorism is dangerous, or perhaps you buy into the myth that Americans are terrorists... ???? However, what is the answer to leaving and creating what happened in Vietnam, the killing fields? Should we just pull out and leave those people to their fate?  Why?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070215/ts_afp/mideastpalestinian_070215184722;_ylt=ApJQnr7S.F1tjwHV7PPpXG0UewgF
Logged

To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
Author: Anatole
mrs. red
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9318



WWW
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2007, 02:17:42 PM »

Quote from: mrs. red
I think he is dead out wrong - I do think it is worth what we do there.  Of course, my opinion is formed from talking to soldiers that are serving there and what they tell me is happening.

I also think just liberating suppressed women was well worth the fight.  I don't want to ever hear of women getting stoned to death, being denied educations, and raped at will.  If women were so unimportant as this terrorist regime makes them out to be then, they would just be left alone.

So if we underfund the troops and that gets them killed is that ok?  Why do you care, Leslie about our tax dollars?  You aren't paying taxes to the U.S. - I mean other than you want the war to go away...

 Tell me what solution you have in mind for the Iraqi people?  Does it not encourage you that Hamas is coming to the table today with at least a begninning of an agreement? They may or may not honor it, however it is a beginning.  I think that these are very important issues  - I don't know you, perhaps you don't agree that terrorism is dangerous, or perhaps you buy into the myth that Americans are terrorists... ???? However, what is the answer to leaving and creating what happened in Vietnam, the killing fields? Should we just pull out and leave those people to their fate?  Why?

http://tinyurl.com/36dutn
 

edited to fix the margins.
Logged

To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
Author: Anatole
LouiseVargas
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2524



« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2007, 08:59:35 PM »

Leslie, Nonesuche, Mrs. Red,

If you all are talking about me trying to rule all the posts in the Political forum, I'm very sorry you feel this way. That is certainly not my intent.

Who the "F" am I to be so important? Of what real importance are my posts? I do not understand.

I'm just a person posting my thoughts on the Scared Monkeys board. That's all I'm trying to do.
Logged

Hope is everything. I see angels everywhere.
Anna
Monkey Mega Star
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 18150



« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2007, 04:13:06 AM »

Wow, quite a little discussion you all have been having.

I do have a couple of thoughts on this.  I, for one, do not appreciate being called "angry" just as Mrs. Red doesn't.  For one thing, it makes me become VERY angry for a person to do that.   Very Happy

It trivializes my thoughts, opinions and rationale by implying that it is ONLY in anger that I speak.  It is saying that what I say should count for less because I am angry, being emotional and not rational, have some sort of person interest in an outcome.  There is the implication that I do not have every right to be angry in the first place, something that I just do not accept.  Anger is a valid emotion and a normal response to what one perceives as a very unjust, treasonous or illegal act by a politician, for example.

It is very frustrating to try to post facts only to have someone come along and try to steer things to emotionality, their personal feelings, etc.  I do not think that one poster as pdh3 did should say another should not post or that they are over the top unless that person has named them personally in an attack.  Louise has done that with me before, if you will recall, actually named me.  Maybe one reason some of us seem angry is that we are targeted by others, something not done in the reverse.

  And Louise stated even that her mysterious friend disproved my posts while offering absolutely no proof of this.  My position has been borne out by the now-concluding Libby trial and is factual, certainly not based on any anger or emotion.  I am still awaiting how this friend disproved any of the FACTS I ever stated.  Instead, I get posts on MY anger as though that is the problem instead of the claims that my posts were disproven.

It is not those of us stating facts who are the ones trying to make everything from teeth to fake covert operatives personal.  And it does get weary.  And some situations do call for anger as a normal response.

There is nothing wrong with righteous indignation but it should be directed at the events and personalities being discussed, not other posters.  To constantly call those who do not agree with you angry is not a debate, it is a personal attack.  Instead of addressing the issues, the perceived or imagines emotion of the poster is responded to and they are then put on the defensive for what someone thinks is their emotion at the time of posting.  This is just nuts!  Ad hominem attacks are not responses nor any kind of discussion.

But again, I have the right to be angry at what I perceive are horrendous acts of treason being committed by the current sitting congress, done in violation of the Constitution and their stated limitations of power.  A person who perceives their actions this way and does not react with anger is the one who should frighten you.  They are the ones lacking in normal responses.  Saying and doing anything to get along never works and I do not expect nor really care if others on this forum agree or disagree with me.  I just resent your stating I do not have the right to post as in the case of Tyler if you don't like it.  Or making wild claims of having disproved my posts when you have not even begun to do so.

And no matter what facts are posted, there are those who what to make it some sort of touchy, feelie personal things when I have no such desires.  I am just posting where I come from and why.  End of point.  I welcome any dialogue on any posts or facts I make except those that do not back up their claims with the facts themselves or seek to control my emotions or rationale behind my positions.

I can't exchange information or debate an issue based on what others perceive as my emotional state for that has nothing whatsoever to do with facts.  And I reserve the right to be angry at what I perceive are tremendous injustices and acts of betrayal.  I would be an absolute fool not to feel angry at these things happening.  Why some seem to think otherwise or that it is their business if I am angry or not is what I consider over the top and out of line.

For example, a person might post that they do not think the personal appearances of a candidate are valid campaign issues but not that Tyler doesn't have the right to post them or that her doing so is out of line or over the top, present an opposite argument of the facts, not attack the poster.  There is a big difference, you know.

Leslie, I am sorry you are so fearful of this country.  If it makes you feel any better, please know that I fear the Appeaseniks of Eurabia far more than anything this country could ever do.  There are those such as your own Canadian Mark Steyn (with whom I am in love if you prefer emotionality  Very Happy ) who say that Europe is already lost as it will contain a large enough contingent of Muslims within a very few short years that with their resolve and the lack of resolve of the original populations, it is too late to stem the tide of their going over totally Muslim complete with Sharia law, etc. in little time.  While I adore him, I do hope is is wrong about this but that is what he says in his Prologue to America Alone, his most recent book.  

And yes, I share the sentiment that a person or a country should do what is right regardless of what other think of their doing so.  I only wish our allies still believed in bringing representative government to all who desire it or would benefit from having repressive dictators replaced with any form of democracy.  When the Canadian government has to issue a warning that PUBLIC stoning of women is unacceptable, I am very afraid.  Guess we will just have to continue to scare each other.  

With the large number of socialist in our congress right now, I fear socialists all over the globe as I think they cannot compete with our capitalist gross domestic product rate and so will strive to bring down this nation as the sole remaining super power.  There is a very good reason why we are just that, the sole remaining super power,  and it is not because of any socialist scheme afoot.  It is because of capitalism pure and simple as far as I can determine for there is no other difference.  And just as President Bush just pointed out, we have done a better job of controlling our own greenhouse emissions that those who signed the Kyoto Treaty and we did so through our capitalist system of free enterprise without anyone making us do so, further proof that it works.

But in order for the socialist countries the world over to appease their own populations, they do not need to have the glaring example of our success a the forefront.  Ergo, the move to bring the U.S. into line with their own bankrupt governments with their high unemployment rates, etc.  And we have now in our congress far too many all too happy to oblige, being citizens of the universe first and American far last.  Their fist loyalty is to other leftists/socialists before any national interest.

I am one for America going it alone if need be but am thankful for the allies who chose to stand beside us as well.  I do not appreciate the likes of a two term senator presidential candidate insulting one of our most loyal allies as Obama recently did with John Howard.  Now that is audacity and he certainly does not speak for me in his doing so.  Obama can't have it both ways.  If he is for totally surrender in Iraq as he claims, then he should know that of course Al Qaida is going to support his candidacy and Howard was right to point this out.  Sorry but that's the way that works.  But calling Howard only an ally of Bush and not of the U.S. is over stepping his authority as no one has elected him yet and he does not dictate foreign policy.  He is still just a senator and has no right  to be attempting to interact on an international level with anybody.

As for this country and its anger scaring foreigners, some foreign countries need to be be scared, in my opinion, they need to wake up to the global jihad taking place and stop thinking that just because they are not under attack at the moment it will never effect them.  Just wishful thinking on my part as I have no power at all to do anything to cause them to do anything let alone my bidding but at least I am aware of this.

As emotionality goes, I can't imagine why ours would be anything compared to what C Span brings us regularly.  After all, they still show the British Parliament if you want to see disrespect and emotionality in politics.  We certainly have nothing that comes even close to that display. Shocked  Shocked  Shocked

Ah, the world could use a Margaret Thatcher about now!  We seem to be long on problems and short on leadership.  But it is global and not peculiar to any particular nation.

And all of this is just my opinion but one to which I feel I am just as entitled as the next person who does not like my anger, emotionality or lack of agreement with those whom I truly believe to be misguided or even dangerously wrong.  It's called freedom of speech.  I seek to speak freely without having to constantly try to appease those who do not agree  with me.  Some are mature enough to handle this and others it would seem are not.

I welcome challenges based on facts and usually provide a link to things I post to allow others to verify my source and ask that others do the same.  Regardless of what some may claim, I am not particularly interested in whether or not I convince anybody on this forum to my point of view as that is not my intent but the exchange of information between parties interested in doing so and only those parties.  Most adults have their own opinions and are not likely to change them and certainly not over anything I might post or not post.  You are welcome to yours but please also respect my right to mine, opinion that is.
Logged

PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
mrs. red
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9318



WWW
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2007, 01:00:04 PM »

I liked your post Anna.  You expressed very well what the phrase about being angry represented to me, you just expressed it so much better than I did.

Just because I don't agree with people does not mean that when I ask a question about what they said or why they are thinking that means that it isn't safe to post here.  The "safety" issue was another very troubling aspect about all of this.  What does that mean?

Does it mean one thinks they will be banned? Does it mean you fear for your physical or emotional safety?   Is asking a question based on my thoughts attacking and not making you feel "safe"?  

I don't understand that concept, and it is quite demeaning to this site, in my opinion.  Being challenged on thoughts and beliefs is what makes us stretch and grow.  I am quite willing to read and think about what people say.  

One of the highest compliments I have recieved on this forum is when in a pretty "hot" thread I stated why I no longer believe in abortion rights - and Louise Vargas acknowledged that it made her stop and think.  She didn't say that I changed her opinion, only that it gave her pause.  That ladies and gentlemen (although I don't see any guys in here) is what it's supposed to be about - expressing opinions and understanding a question or disagreement is not an attack.

So, let's carry on. For those of you who don't feel safe, well I am sorry you feel that way but how do you know what happens if you just come in do a "I don't feel safe" drive-by and don't say what you think.

Leslie feels "safe" to say that the U.S. scares her, and I stated my opinion on that but she hasn't fallen to any "harm".  In fact, I agree with a lot of what she says on the Lively about the Natalee case.  There are going to be things that we agree and disagree on, it's only human nature.

If it helps, just know this... two of my most long standing friendships of over 20+ years are with liberals of whom I disagree vehemently with on the political landscape.  We actually do this on the phone and in person and don't agree on anything... but we have maintained a long friendship.
Logged

To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
Author: Anatole
LouiseVargas
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2524



« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2007, 07:51:23 PM »

Dear Mrs. Red,

Just a teensy correction because I was very moved by the movie, The Killing Fields. It took place in Cambodia. Haing S. Ngor (a native Cambodian) won an Oscar for best supporting actor at the 57th Academy Awards in 1985. He played himself in the movie.

Every so often, there is a film that is destined to be talked about and remembered for years to come.
Logged

Hope is everything. I see angels everywhere.
LouiseVargas
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2524



« Reply #33 on: February 18, 2007, 08:08:41 PM »

Mrs. Red,

Thank you so much for being so generous to me and posting that statement: "One of the highest compliments I have recieved on this forum is when in a pretty "hot" thread I stated why I no longer believe in abortion rights - and Louise Vargas acknowledged that it made her stop and think. She didn't say that I changed her opinion, only that it gave her pause. That ladies and gentlemen (although I don't see any guys in here) is what it's supposed to be about - expressing opinions and understanding a question or disagreement is not an attack. " Thank you.

We all evolve over time and I try to keep my mind open and consider other things. Since I respect you so much, I am even reconsidering my support for Obama, even though I will attend the rally on Tuesday. I'm almost scared to go because there will be so many thousands of people.

I just want you to know that I'm a newbie on politics. I never knew the information you've provided about democrats. But I'm sure glad you posted information and I'm trying to learn from it.

With love, Louise
Logged

Hope is everything. I see angels everywhere.
Pages: « 1 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Use of this web site in any manner signifies unconditional acceptance, without exception, of our terms of use.
Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC
 
Page created in 0.145 seconds with 19 queries.