Natalee Case Discussion #847 9/21/10 - 9/25/2010

[klaasend]

Beekman Boy, LOL 

 

Hiya Klaas! Good to see ya.

Good to see you too Carpe!  Did you see my picture of the lollypop kid aka beekman boy?

[Tamikosmom]

I was determined not to post until the anger I felt at Tim's comments had mellowed a little. It has and has settled in as just profound disappointment.

I have suspicions about Tim's "frame of mind" that are only unsubstantiated suspicions, but regardless of anything else, Tim put the words out there and that's all we have to form opinions about. I have an opinion about them.

Beth has faced ridicule in the midst of grief by some of the ugliest pieces of humanity on earth. Tim has chosen, by his own words, to join them. He gets in line behind Joran, Paulus, Anita, and Renho.

A long time ago, I joined with you all to "Stand With The Girl" and I have no problem interchanging "The Girl" with Beth's or Natalee's name. Beth has paid a King's ransom in pursuit of basic decency: to determine her daughter's killer, see the killer brought to justice, and bury her daughter. It wasn't given to her to have the authority to bring those things about in conventional ways. All those who held that position worked against her. Beth was left with no alternative other than to accept the corruption that was handed her, or steel herself for patience, opportunity, and determination. It's the last act she can do for Natalee, and she's chosen the latter. Her strength in that decision is something I'm in awe of.

Beth's an inspiration to all who face insurmountable odds and holds only truth as a weapon to shield against the onslaught. She has not shrunk from being an easy target and has slowly and surely found paths to gain ground. I am deeply saddened that Tim views the battle, sees the target, and stoops to find stones to throw. He has stooped low indeed.

JMO.

Thanks CBB

 

Janet

[Bearlyhere]

seems to me that TM got Beth confused with Cindy Anthony.


how in the world he could do that is beyond me,,, but its possible i guess he has mixed the two cases together somehow... my jaw is still sore from it hitting the desk and then to the floor

I need ice.......

Just take your jawbone out and put it in the fridge overnight.  That should do it.

 

[carpe noctem]

Beekman Boy, LOL 

 

Hiya Klaas! Good to see ya.

Good to see you too Carpe!  Did you see my picture of the lollypop kid aka beekman boy?

Yes! It was a good one... you can never go wrong with the Wizard of Oz.

[klaasend]

He has a very munchkinlike voice as well.   

[carpe noctem]

Has Tim claimed insanity... or he mixed his meds with a boilermaker or something yet?

I just couldn't imagine in 1,000 years he would take a verbal dump like that.

I am so disappointed, I still have problems putting words to it.

It as if someone took a giant poop in my Easter Basket.

[klaasend]

I know Carpe, it's very sad.

[Bearlyhere]

Klaas

I could not find any podcasts of interview with Dana between June, 2006 and September, 2006.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/

++++++++


Heli Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:30 pm

Dana Pretzer
July 20, 2006

Dana:

If you watch cable tv news or internet, you name it, forums Scared Monkeys, you'll know that there's a group of people that make it their priority to help victims the same we do on this program to recover people, loved. These people work their butts off, spend their money and if there's a way we can help them with more money

Tim how are you sir, welcome to the program. Haven't had you on ... How did you get into this, it isn't the type of hobby that Joe Public does like in the wood shop carving or painting...

Tim:

I was in construction business, a general contractor, my business was going good, we moved into a new house, in 1984 .... the next day my daugters' mother came home for lunch...Laura was talking on the phone ....... she went to meet her boyfriend but she never made it home ....

The police told us Laura was a runaway ... I begged the police to do something but in those days there were no search teams.

(Continues to tell story, believe we've all heard it before)

Our searches have found 58 people that are deceased. There is one thing worse than having a dead loved one, or missed loved one is to know they're dead out there somewhere and not being able to say goodbye.

We've become very close to these families. The best case scenarios is when we find people alive, I've been able to hand back 3 children to their parents who'd been abducted.

(continues with more anecdotes)

Dana:

You took your own tragedy and lack of answers (lost satellite signal)

Tim:

.... we never received a grant in our life, we've tried to be self sufficient, we get donations, we have fund raisers. We never, ever ask for money from a family member, we've never asked for money from LE, we won't accept money from family members. Somehow or another, God has always blessed us to keep our doors open, to make it to the next search. I get religion into it, but before we start a search we always start with a prayer...

I'm only the founder of TES, God is our leader and that's why we have the success we have....

(more anecdotes about various searches)

Dana:

We've got about 10 minutes left, so I should ask you about the Holloway case, I'd get shot by some of my listeners if I didn't. Anybody who followed the case knows how hard you and your crew worked and all the roadblocks you ran into.

Will natalee be found?
What can we do as media and audience to help get you back to Aruba to continue on to search?
Are there places that you wanted to search that you weren't able to search in the quest to find Natalee?

Tim:

First off, Beth and Dave and I talk all the time, we're very close. I took 21 people to Aruba vrom 26 states, we took the best of the best, we had a tremendous amount of roadblocks from the government

I am just so sure that Natalee is out in that water, 3 to 5 miles out. I truly believe they put her in that fish trap, crab trap. She's in 800 to 1,000 of water. We were going to go back in may with a florida and Louissiana organization. We had magnatometer, we had a boat rented from Curacao, I truly think natalee is findable, Natalee is not alive ... but at the last moment the funding didn't come through, it was going to be a 50,000 thing, Natalee is findable out in that water.

The neat thing that happened, I got e-mail from karen, she was looking forward to us coming over, there was new info that Natalee is probably out there in that water, the equipmetn is something they didn't have, she was looking forward to working together with us. We were disappointed we didnt' go

Dana;

when did you get tha tfrom her

Tim:

First week of May. We were planning to go on May 15 but the funding fell through We had already paid for some plane tickets. I guess it just wasn't the right time but I think Natalee is findable I encourage ppl to send in $5,00....Natalee needs to be in Birmingham, her parents need to have a funeral fo rher, they deserve to have a headstone to put flowers on.

This is a high profile case, Beth and Dave are just real people and that's their real daughter. I'm choked up right now, I truly feel in my heart that Natalee is findable but right now it's lack of funding. If she's in that fish trap she's findable and there will be body parts in there. It's only funding that's keeping us from that.

I have a neat relationsip with Karin, but it fell apart. We're kind of used to those things, but we pick up the pieces and keep trying. i think it's going to happen for Natalee. We did everything off the coast of Aruba that we could, so now we have the equipment available to us to go to 1,000 feet. I'm looking forward to the day we can go back

Dana:

We're looking forward, as the family you don't have complete closure, you know that yourself as the father of a murdered daughter. Tim, did the Aruban gov't obstruct you, did they put restrictions

Tim:

A lot of restrictions, they made our life miserable. They turned the foucs around on what we were doing wrong, they hurt our feelings. We considered the source it was ...we found the place where Natalee was temporarily buried in but then they said we were destroying their turtle eggs.

I had two meetings with Dompig, but he didn't return my calls after that. JVBD tried to ahve me arrested, he said I threatened him I just wanted to search his well..he screamed at us and we feared for our own safety. PVD went absolutely berserk and he went to the Prosecutor and tried to get us arrested.

A lot of time was wasted, but again it was something.. we have to go back there, we have to clear that water out there, and I'm optimistic that we can bring Natalee homea nd if we don't ....we know she's not there, but it's not been cleared. Dave and I were down there in October, we actually found the boat that took her out there and those ppl actually put there house up for sale right after that and went back to Holland.

I think we can find Natalee; Dave and Beth have both expected the fact Natalee is dead.

Dana:

Hopefully we can help to get some donations to come your way.

http://refugeesunleashed.net/about3669.html

I believe Tim has forgotten two very important things, how he feels about trusting God and how he feels about families.

What changed Tim's recollections of Aruba?  He has rewritten history.

Tim says there was a deal to go back mid-May, but the funding fell through.  Maybe knowing the details about that would explain things. 

Tim seems to have a lot of misplaced anger now, he is blaming things on Beth.  Sounds like a little child, everything is Mom's fault.


 

[billb's daughter]

I was determined not to post until the anger I felt at Tim's comments had mellowed a little. It has and has settled in as just profound disappointment.

I have suspicions about Tim's "frame of mind" that are only unsubstantiated suspicions, but regardless of anything else, Tim put the words out there and that's all we have to form opinions about. I have an opinion about them.

Beth has faced ridicule in the midst of grief by some of the ugliest pieces of humanity on earth. Tim has chosen, by his own words, to join them. He gets in line behind Joran, Paulus, Anita, and Renho.

A long time ago, I joined with you all to "Stand With The Girl" and I have no problem interchanging "The Girl" with Beth's or Natalee's name. Beth has paid a King's ransom in pursuit of basic decency: to determine her daughter's killer, see the killer brought to justice, and bury her daughter. It wasn't given to her to have the authority to bring those things about in conventional ways. All those who held that position worked against her. Beth was left with no alternative other than to accept the corruption that was handed her, or steel herself for patience, opportunity, and determination. It's the last act she can do for Natalee, and she's chosen the latter. Her strength in that decision is something I'm in awe of.

Beth's an inspiration to all who face insurmountable odds and holds only truth as a weapon to shield against the onslaught. She has not shrunk from being an easy target and has slowly and surely found paths to gain ground. I am deeply saddened that Tim views the battle, sees the target, and stoops to find stones to throw. He has stooped low indeed.

JMO.

CBB.....Thank you for your post. It sums up my feelings about Tim Miller much better than I could put in writing..... I put in bold your last thoughts as it reflects my thoughts exactly!
 

[billb's daughter]

I am glad that so many have posted recently and expressed my sentiments on this situation.
Still think that it all about donations and financial support to TES. As for Steph, he is all about MSM and how to get back in. Failing that, to do some programs on his own. I never heard of him until a few months ago probably here on the Haleigh case, where  ?? I can't remember why or what and I probably won't hear of him again any where else.
...
Even Robots and billb showed up, nice to see yu.

Always nice to see you too KAT_GRAM....

[Bearlyhere]

 
Whatever happened with Tim's wife and her cancer?  I wonder when Tim started to change in regards to changes in her health.

[Agraria]

I was determined not to post until the anger I felt at Tim's comments had mellowed a little. It has and has settled in as just profound disappointment.

I have suspicions about Tim's "frame of mind" that are only unsubstantiated suspicions, but regardless of anything else, Tim put the words out there and that's all we have to form opinions about. I have an opinion about them.

Beth has faced ridicule in the midst of grief by some of the ugliest pieces of humanity on earth. Tim has chosen, by his own words, to join them. He gets in line behind Joran, Paulus, Anita, and Renho.

A long time ago, I joined with you all to "Stand With The Girl" and I have no problem interchanging "The Girl" with Beth's or Natalee's name. Beth has paid a King's ransom in pursuit of basic decency: to determine her daughter's killer, see the killer brought to justice, and bury her daughter. It wasn't given to her to have the authority to bring those things about in conventional ways. All those who held that position worked against her. Beth was left with no alternative other than to accept the corruption that was handed her, or steel herself for patience, opportunity, and determination. It's the last act she can do for Natalee, and she's chosen the latter. Her strength in that decision is something I'm in awe of.

Beth's an inspiration to all who face insurmountable odds and holds only truth as a weapon to shield against the onslaught. She has not shrunk from being an easy target and has slowly and surely found paths to gain ground. I am deeply saddened that Tim views the battle, sees the target, and stoops to find stones to throw. He has stooped low indeed.

JMO.

CBB,

From the heart and beautifully expressed ...

Tricia

[texasmom]

tim better get the explanation bucket working

ITA.  I've been supportive of Tim Miller in the past, and felt he was one of the good guys.  But the last couple of days have had me just sitting and wondering.   But the words were spoken.  (shaking my head)  I can't think of any kind of explanation he could come up with that would make me think any better of him at this point.  I never thought Tim walked on water, because he is a man with human frailties.  Everyone makes mistakes.  But the words Tim said about Beth isn't a mistake, it's much more than that. And he did this publicly.  (still shaking head) 

ITA...maybe Tim can explain away the money questions, but the words he spoke about Beth and Natalee...no explaining that away.

[billb's daughter]

Has Tim claimed insanity... or he mixed his meds with a boilermaker or something yet?

I just couldn't imagine in 1,000 years he would take a verbal dump like that.

I am so disappointed, I still have problems putting words to it.

It as if someone took a giant poop in my Easter Basket.

Sad about Tim's latest comments about Beth....I'm sure he already regrets them.....He has his own hell to deal with....the lost of his Laura.....the accumulation of all the good he has done for missing children and the price it takes to deal year in and year out with grieving families/friends/opponents/opportunists....
I hope for his sake he gets it all together again so he can go on being the hero he wished he could have been for his own daughter.....

[texasmom]

I was determined not to post until the anger I felt at Tim's comments had mellowed a little. It has and has settled in as just profound disappointment.

I have suspicions about Tim's "frame of mind" that are only unsubstantiated suspicions, but regardless of anything else, Tim put the words out there and that's all we have to form opinions about. I have an opinion about them.

Beth has faced ridicule in the midst of grief by some of the ugliest pieces of humanity on earth. Tim has chosen, by his own words, to join them. He gets in line behind Joran, Paulus, Anita, and Renho.

A long time ago, I joined with you all to "Stand With The Girl" and I have no problem interchanging "The Girl" with Beth's or Natalee's name. Beth has paid a King's ransom in pursuit of basic decency: to determine her daughter's killer, see the killer brought to justice, and bury her daughter. It wasn't given to her to have the authority to bring those things about in conventional ways. All those who held that position worked against her. Beth was left with no alternative other than to accept the corruption that was handed her, or steel herself for patience, opportunity, and determination. It's the last act she can do for Natalee, and she's chosen the latter. Her strength in that decision is something I'm in awe of.

Beth's an inspiration to all who face insurmountable odds and holds only truth as a weapon to shield against the onslaught. She has not shrunk from being an easy target and has slowly and surely found paths to gain ground. I am deeply saddened that Tim views the battle, sees the target, and stoops to find stones to throw. He has stooped low indeed.

JMO.

Very well stated CBB.   

[crazybabyborg]

Beth has driven Natalee's story from day one. There was a time when I honestly feared that the story had ended with no conclusion, no closure, no justice. I've come to the conclusion that Natalee's story will go on until Beth has been afforded those 3 simple elements of decency: Natalee's killer identified, justice dispensed to Natalee's killer, and Natalee's remains appropriately laid to rest.

Despite all forces to keep Beth from realizing those things, the first is accomplished, and the second is imminent. The third would be the crest of a miracle, but when I look at Beth, I can expect a miracle.

[billb's daughter]

I am so looking forward to the documentation Peter D Vies is working on with Beth......
Beth went to Peru to visit urine with a purpose and Peter was there....they also went to aruba....Beth has a purpose for that also.....
Maybe that is why those that may have profited from Natalee's fate are trying to discredit Beth......
40 years...I stand with the girls (Natalee and Beth)..........
No body.....no tourism aruba.....Bring Natalee home!

[crazybabyborg]

He has a very munchkinlike voice as well.   

Hmmm............ wonder what anatomical reason there is for that?   

[crazybabyborg]

I am so looking forward to the documentation Peter D Vies is working on with Beth......
Beth went to Peru to visit urine with a purpose and Peter was there....they also went to aruba....Beth has a purpose for that also.....
Maybe that is why those that may have profited from Natalee's fate are trying to discredit Beth......
40 years...I stand with the girls (Natalee and Beth)..........
No body.....no tourism aruba.....Bring Natalee home!

[texasmom]

THIS SHOULD HAVE ONLY BEEN ABOUT BRINGING NATALEE HOME!

I have also been quite disturbed upon hearing the TM and SW audio. It seemed well rehearsed and the message repeated time and again. I have some nagging feeling that this is more than what we see.

OK...far fetched here...but think on it...and humor me on this possibility. I have been trying to understand and place this whole mess in context. We all know something is not adding up.


Was this planned trip to Peru part of their PR plan to restore Aruba? (Why Dave tho?? Makes no sense.) But nonetheless, that has to be the reason Aruba engaged in all of this. (Aruba and someone else will benefit. Why else would they be so very angry?) Was Joran going to give them evidence to clear Aruba?

Then add SW.---> Who apparently was upset about Beth going to Peru first also.

Could this be a continuation of the Joran/Terror Japp plan? The contract and plan they had devised to have Joran commit himself and sell the stories. Then get out in a couple of years free to collect the millions from it. At the same time, free Aruba from guilt and restore her. (I don't know the version of the story he was going to tell, but he supposedly gave the map (of where her body was) to Terror Japp. Somehow now SW says he had the map first before anyone else .

Could this plan be a continuation of clearing Aruba? etc... Why would Dave be doing this for Aruba???

Lots of connections there seemingly.

Could this explain what Beth was trying to stop?

Far fetched maybe??? But my Father always told me there were no coincidences. And I have found that always holds true.

Don't shoot the messenger but I could not shake these thoughts...

Tricia

I've had a lot of nagging thoughts too.  Thanks for sharing yours.

It still nags at me WHY Dave Holloway would put Steph Watts (of all people) in touch with Terror Jaap?  That is if Steph Watts was telling the truth on his blog.

I did find it very interesting that the map that Joran drew for Terror Jaap had been talked about for months prior to Joran's recent arrest.  But almost immediately following the arrest... Steph Watts and Tim Miller are in Aruba for an extended stay supposedly to search the area in the map.  Too bad...if that was the real reason for the trip...that they didn't take the time to find out prior to arriving that they wouldn't be allowed to search squat! 

But they stayed anyway!    

I hope someone can find it...I just have a sneaking suspicion that there's a connection with Aruba and Steph Watts that hasn't been talked about yet.

JMO

Wouldn't surprise me in the least!

Steph Watts has been bashing Beth about the foundation and the fundraising for a long time.

I don't know what Steph's connection with BFN Debbie is, but she is always his head cheerleader when he has a pod cast.

That stupid map was all over the internet before Steph Watts got ahold of it.

Something just ain't right about it all.  IMO

Yes, I know that all too well.  Went there a time or two...haven't been back since.

DebbieG dictates from chat what questions will be asked of the guests...and even "rephrases those questions" when she sees fit.  She's got her own group of cheerleaders there with her too.  They were begging for money for a return trip to Aruba and I tried to ask what would be different about a second trip?  We all knew what happened with the remains that were found on the first trip! 

I have some snapshots of the chat from the June 6th show.  Dave Holloway and Tim Miller were on the show.

Snips from my screenshots:

First of all...just to prove Debbie (the spellchecker) is not perfect either.   



This question was asked and answered. (If you recall this is when a lot of people were trying to blame Beth for Joran murdering Stephany.)



My first try...ignored



Second try...ignored again



Someone else tried to help me...ignored





Then Debbie_G chimes in...question even in her version....STILL NOT ASKED



Angelala



fanofjustice calls Debbie on it