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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #847 9/21/10 - 9/25/2010  (Read 284176 times)
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wreck
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« Reply #940 on: September 25, 2010, 09:35:24 PM »

Call me naive, call me gullible, but I didn't see any of this coming, as most didn't. But I thank  Rob for bringing things up, as I held things in to protect Tim.  All I can say is I'm devastated and hurt.  I/we have been fooled again.  I really thought Tim a hero.  I remember when I did some searches right before one of his trips back to Aruba. I had so much faith in him as he stated so many times how highly he felt about Beth and he was going to find Natalee.  Now I see things so much differently and I feel ashamed in believing and even putting my self in jeopardy to protect and hide him, at the cost of loosing my job, to protect his drinking from being seen in the media after the searches.  Yes and Lisa was with him too, while his wife was back home. Another story, another time.

I am so sad. There are so few hero's in this world and we just lost one 

Di - there is nothing wrong in believing the best in a person. We have all been hurt. And it will probably happen again. It's part of being human, caring, kind and loving. There is nothing wrong with allowing someone into your heart and trusting them. It's what they do what that trust and compassion that defines THEM, not YOU LOVE.

Never feel ashamed that you care for others - that's a wonderful quality and makes you stand out in my eyes.  ::Monkey Angel::

Thank you Rob.  That means alot coming from you.  You are another hero to me and I miss you when you aren't here (Don't YOU disappoint me! Wink ). Yes, i am sensitive and this hurts to the core.  But thank God for SM and like minded monkeys to share these disappointments.  I really think he was doing the right thing in the beginning and meant well.  I just wonder what changed him?  The publicity?  I can't say the money, as I believe he lives modestly, as far as I know and has stated, up until now, he doesn't accept money from the victims family.   I really want to know when/why he's changed from a couple years ago.  I just don't get it. 

Don't discount him being "blackmailed" -- he apparently has a LOT of skeletons in his closet. ( I'm not trying to be funny -- I don't know how else to say it)
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texasmom
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« Reply #941 on: September 25, 2010, 09:36:13 PM »

Call me naive, call me gullable, but I didn't see any of this coming, as most didn't. But I thank  Rob for bringing things up, as I held things in to protect Tim.  All I can say is I'm devastated and hurt.  I/we have been fooled again.  I really thought Tim a hero.  I remember when I did some searches right before one of his trips back to Aruba. I had so much faith in him as he stated so many times how highly he felt about Beth and he was going to find Natalee.  Now I see things so much differently and I feel ashamed in believing and even putting my self in jeopordy to protect and hide him, at the cost of loosing my job, to protect his drinking from being seen in the media after the searches.  Yes and Lisa was with him too, while his wife was back home. Another story, another time.

I am so sad. There are so few hero's in this world and we just lost one 

Is this Lisa?  TIA

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.msg573427#msg573427



http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4145.msg573428#msg573428



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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #942 on: September 25, 2010, 09:36:57 PM »

The more Devries and Beth uncover themselves -- the greater chance the "fiddle players" are exposed.

JACKPOT

Interesting that Tim was brought dragging and kicking to a trap revelation two years later ... and still didn't want to discuss it.

Actually TJ brought it out publicly and wasn't shying away - he got high marks back then from all.

TJ started talking about it because I thought it was important wreck and needed to be explained and to this day - nada.

 
So does TJ think Natalee was in that trap?? If so, he hasn't been near vocal enough and mystifies me even more why he is dissing Beth.

he's not sure. He believes that Natalee was taken away by those Colombians. But he can't be totally sure. So, he doesn't discount that's Natalee in that trap.

He's not dissing Beth, just saying - be careful and let justice work. There have been many that have waited up to 40 years for justice, and none of us want that - but we might have to accept it.

He cares about Beth very much, and is only saying that some times justice needs to works in it's own way - and he said that in a way that most didn't agree with.


I disagree with you Rob.  TJ Ward did diss Beth on Dana's show.  We all heard him.

For someone to take $400,000 from a grieving family for a little dectective work and fighting
with Art Wood on televison is sinful.  He should be ashamed of himself and he certainly has
no right to talk about how any other monies were handled by Beth or anyone else in Natalee's
family.

"To take"?

he was hired based on his professional expertise. And the truth is - you would have hired him too - because he is the best.

He has been in this business for as long as he has because he gets results and is an expert in many fields - including LVA.

Mags, he didn't take anything from anyone. He was paid what was agreed upon. And that was all known going into it or he wouldn't have been hired.

I might say it like this. He is a professional - how many other cases do you think he is emotionally invested?

He truly needs to almost separate his emotional investment and his professional ethics or it just doesn't work. We all know that and in this case he cares about Natalee and Beth.

I didn't agree with Beth going to Peru and I wasn't all that thrilled with the sting / extortion operation, but who am I to question Beth?

I am sure the future will reveal whether it was a good decision or not and we'll all be here to discuss it then too.

We're not gonna all always agree, and that's ok .. really it is.

But you won't ever hear me rip Beth even if I don't think it's the best decision. I keep alot to myself and that's evident by the fact that I knew stuff about Tim years ago and never said anything to anyone.

I'm just not that way.

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« Reply #943 on: September 25, 2010, 09:45:29 PM »

As for the Kalpoe "response" --

As the Plaintiffs pointed out in their earlier response -it is SOLEY the Plaintiffs responsibility to provide depositions and witnesses BEFORE the defendents reply. The Plaintiffs provided NOTHING for 4 years -- the Defendents have had to show their hand first every time. Deadlines were intentionally missed and when they finally provided depositions, it was 2 days before the latest deadline. The case should proceed on the courts ordained timeline. No more exceptions!

ITA

With all the complications and no word from the Kalpoes, I really believe this is going to be dismissed.  It's a joke in our judicial system.  Nothing is going to come of this and the Kalpoes aren't going to get crap.  I'm surprised it's been drug out this long.  JMO
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« Reply #944 on: September 25, 2010, 09:48:30 PM »

TM probably.  I believe the caption for this photo mentioned Tim and Lisa so the hair would be a match:

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texasmom
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« Reply #945 on: September 25, 2010, 09:48:58 PM »

Call me naive, call me gullible, but I didn't see any of this coming, as most didn't. But I thank  Rob for bringing things up, as I held things in to protect Tim.  All I can say is I'm devastated and hurt.  I/we have been fooled again.  I really thought Tim a hero.  I remember when I did some searches right before one of his trips back to Aruba. I had so much faith in him as he stated so many times how highly he felt about Beth and he was going to find Natalee.  Now I see things so much differently and I feel ashamed in believing and even putting my self in jeopardy to protect and hide him, at the cost of loosing my job, to protect his drinking from being seen in the media after the searches.  Yes and Lisa was with him too, while his wife was back home. Another story, another time.

I am so sad. There are so few hero's in this world and we just lost one 

Di - there is nothing wrong in believing the best in a person. We have all been hurt. And it will probably happen again. It's part of being human, caring, kind and loving. There is nothing wrong with allowing someone into your heart and trusting them. It's what they do what that trust and compassion that defines THEM, not YOU LOVE.

Never feel ashamed that you care for others - that's a wonderful quality and makes you stand out in my eyes.  ::Monkey Angel::

Thank you Rob.  That means alot coming from you.  You are another hero to me and I miss you when you aren't here (Don't YOU disappoint me! Wink ). Yes, i am sensitive and this hurts to the core.  But thank God for SM and like minded monkeys to share these disappointments.  I really think he was doing the right thing in the beginning and meant well.  I just wonder what changed him?  The publicity?  I can't say the money, as I believe he lives modestly, as far as I know and has stated, up until now, he doesn't accept money from the victims family.   I really want to know when/why he's changed from a couple years ago.  I just don't get it. 

Don't discount him being "blackmailed" -- he apparently has a LOT of skeletons in his closet. ( I'm not trying to be funny -- I don't know how else to say it)

I agree.   
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
wreck
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« Reply #946 on: September 25, 2010, 09:49:58 PM »

The more Devries and Beth uncover themselves -- the greater chance the "fiddle players" are exposed.

JACKPOT

Interesting that Tim was brought dragging and kicking to a trap revelation two years later ... and still didn't want to discuss it.

Actually TJ brought it out publicly and wasn't shying away - he got high marks back then from all.

TJ started talking about it because I thought it was important wreck and needed to be explained and to this day - nada.

 
So does TJ think Natalee was in that trap?? If so, he hasn't been near vocal enough and mystifies me even more why he is dissing Beth.

he's not sure. He believes that Natalee was taken away by those Colombians. But he can't be totally sure. So, he doesn't discount that's Natalee in that trap.

He's not dissing Beth, just saying - be careful and let justice work. There have been many that have waited up to 40 years for justice, and none of us want that - but we might have to accept it.

He cares about Beth very much, and is only saying that some times justice needs to works in it's own way - and he said that in a way that most didn't agree with.


I disagree with you Rob.  TJ Ward did diss Beth on Dana's show.  We all heard him.

For someone to take $400,000 from a grieving family for a little dectective work and fighting
with Art Wood on televison is sinful.  He should be ashamed of himself and he certainly has
no right to talk about how any other monies were handled by Beth or anyone else in Natalee's
family.

"To take"?

he was hired based on his professional expertise. And the truth is - you would have hired him too - because he is the best.

He has been in this business for as long as he has because he gets results and is an expert in many fields - including LVA.

Mags, he didn't take anything from anyone. He was paid what was agreed upon. And that was all known going into it or he wouldn't have been hired.

I might say it like this. He is a professional - how many other cases do you think he is emotionally invested?

He truly needs to almost separate his emotional investment and his professional ethics or it just doesn't work. We all know that and in this case he cares about Natalee and Beth.

I didn't agree with Beth going to Peru and I wasn't all that thrilled with the sting / extortion operation, but who am I to question Beth?

I am sure the future will reveal whether it was a good decision or not and we'll all be here to discuss it then too.

We're not gonna all always agree, and that's ok .. really it is.

But you won't ever hear me rip Beth even if I don't think it's the best decision. I keep alot to myself and that's evident by the fact that I knew stuff about Tim years ago and never said anything to anyone.

I'm just not that way.


I am sure TJ is worth and earned every penny he charged. He may truly vehemently disagree with how Beth handled things. A "professional" should share his feelings with his "employers" personally and no one else. TJ had no business going public with his "disagreements" with the people paying the fees he charged. -JMO
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klaasend
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« Reply #947 on: September 25, 2010, 09:50:14 PM »

As for the Kalpoe "response" --

As the Plaintiffs pointed out in their earlier response -it is SOLEY the Plaintiffs responsibility to provide depositions and witnesses BEFORE the defendents reply. The Plaintiffs provided NOTHING for 4 years -- the Defendents have had to show their hand first every time. Deadlines were intentionally missed and when they finally provided depositions, it was 2 days before the latest deadline. The case should proceed on the courts ordained timeline. No more exceptions!

ITA

With all the complications and no word from the Kalpoes, I really believe this is going to be dismissed.  It's a joke in our judicial system.  Nothing is going to come of this and the Kalpoes aren't going to get crap.  I'm surprised it's been drug out this long.  JMO

I believe it's being drug out to get as much information on the case out of them they can including the depositions they finally got on August 23, 2010.
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texasmom
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« Reply #948 on: September 25, 2010, 09:51:04 PM »

TM probably.  I believe the caption for this photo mentioned Tim and Lisa so the hair would be a match:



 

That's the pic that made me ask...I thought the hair was the same too.

 

Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #949 on: September 25, 2010, 09:55:55 PM »

TM - sounds like maybe in some media photos in the Anthony case we can see her?
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« Reply #950 on: September 25, 2010, 09:57:38 PM »

Mags-

Let me say it like this.

Remember when Polly Klaas was murdered? I am sure you do and how could anyone ever forget.

Do you remember when Richard Davis said Polly said - don't do me like my daddy does...

remember that?

Well, Joran could do something as cold hearted as that... what does Beth get out of it if that happens?

He's gonna be either in jail forever or dead soon and he wounds Beth all over again.

This is pure evil she confronted and it doesn't always go as planned.

He didn't kill atleast two women cause he cares about their families and their feelings.

That's why I didn't think it would be a good decision and Joran could emotionally wound Beth again and as bad as before.
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« Reply #951 on: September 25, 2010, 09:58:48 PM »



Crow: "Let's see what my Captain Crunch Treasure Map says."


(I know most everyone will not get this -- but, I think it's funny --- it's from Mystey Science Theater 2000)

I get it and yes, it is funny 
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*Avatar courtesy of CBB, a very talented and sweet monkey. Peaches and 2NJ, may you rest in peace. You will never be forgotten.
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« Reply #952 on: September 25, 2010, 09:59:28 PM »

If that is her on the Persistence...I find that very telling.

The multi headed monster had a lot of criticisms of Tim and the Persistence crew, but never mentioned anyone that may have accompanied Tim on board.

If it is her, I think that very well may have been at least part of what's kept him quiet.


 


JMO

Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Rob
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« Reply #953 on: September 25, 2010, 10:02:53 PM »

The more Devries and Beth uncover themselves -- the greater chance the "fiddle players" are exposed.

JACKPOT

Interesting that Tim was brought dragging and kicking to a trap revelation two years later ... and still didn't want to discuss it.

Actually TJ brought it out publicly and wasn't shying away - he got high marks back then from all.

TJ started talking about it because I thought it was important wreck and needed to be explained and to this day - nada.

 
So does TJ think Natalee was in that trap?? If so, he hasn't been near vocal enough and mystifies me even more why he is dissing Beth.

he's not sure. He believes that Natalee was taken away by those Colombians. But he can't be totally sure. So, he doesn't discount that's Natalee in that trap.

He's not dissing Beth, just saying - be careful and let justice work. There have been many that have waited up to 40 years for justice, and none of us want that - but we might have to accept it.

He cares about Beth very much, and is only saying that some times justice needs to works in it's own way - and he said that in a way that most didn't agree with.


I disagree with you Rob.  TJ Ward did diss Beth on Dana's show.  We all heard him.

For someone to take $400,000 from a grieving family for a little dectective work and fighting
with Art Wood on televison is sinful.  He should be ashamed of himself and he certainly has
no right to talk about how any other monies were handled by Beth or anyone else in Natalee's
family.

"To take"?

he was hired based on his professional expertise. And the truth is - you would have hired him too - because he is the best.

He has been in this business for as long as he has because he gets results and is an expert in many fields - including LVA.

Mags, he didn't take anything from anyone. He was paid what was agreed upon. And that was all known going into it or he wouldn't have been hired.

I might say it like this. He is a professional - how many other cases do you think he is emotionally invested?

He truly needs to almost separate his emotional investment and his professional ethics or it just doesn't work. We all know that and in this case he cares about Natalee and Beth.

I didn't agree with Beth going to Peru and I wasn't all that thrilled with the sting / extortion operation, but who am I to question Beth?

I am sure the future will reveal whether it was a good decision or not and we'll all be here to discuss it then too.

We're not gonna all always agree, and that's ok .. really it is.

But you won't ever hear me rip Beth even if I don't think it's the best decision. I keep alot to myself and that's evident by the fact that I knew stuff about Tim years ago and never said anything to anyone.

I'm just not that way.


I am sure TJ is worth and earned every penny he charged. He may truly vehemently disagree with how Beth handled things. A "professional" should share his feelings with his "employers" personally and no one else. TJ had no business going public with his "disagreements" with the people paying the fees he charged. -JMO

you can email him wreck and tell him...trust me, he won't be offended and will take it as constructive.
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« Reply #954 on: September 25, 2010, 10:02:56 PM »

TM - from Red's front page post on the search for Caylee August 31, 2008

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2008/08/31/tes-volunteers-hard-at-work-searching-for-caylee-anthony/

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Dihannah1
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« Reply #955 on: September 25, 2010, 10:11:00 PM »

Call me naive, call me gullible, but I didn't see any of this coming, as most didn't. But I thank  Rob for bringing things up, as I held things in to protect Tim.  All I can say is I'm devastated and hurt.  I/we have been fooled again.  I really thought Tim a hero.  I remember when I did some searches right before one of his trips back to Aruba. I had so much faith in him as he stated so many times how highly he felt about Beth and he was going to find Natalee.  Now I see things so much differently and I feel ashamed in believing and even putting my self in jeopardy to protect and hide him, at the cost of loosing my job, to protect his drinking from being seen in the media after the searches.  Yes and Lisa was with him too, while his wife was back home. Another story, another time.

I am so sad. There are so few hero's in this world and we just lost one 

Di - there is nothing wrong in believing the best in a person. We have all been hurt. And it will probably happen again. It's part of being human, caring, kind and loving. There is nothing wrong with allowing someone into your heart and trusting them. It's what they do what that trust and compassion that defines THEM, not YOU LOVE.

Never feel ashamed that you care for others - that's a wonderful quality and makes you stand out in my eyes.  ::Monkey Angel::

Thank you Rob.  That means alot coming from you.  You are another hero to me and I miss you when you aren't here (Don't YOU disappoint me! Wink ). Yes, i am sensitive and this hurts to the core.  But thank God for SM and like minded monkeys to share these disappointments.  I really think he was doing the right thing in the beginning and meant well.  I just wonder what changed him?  The publicity?  I can't say the money, as I believe he lives modestly, as far as I know and has stated, up until now, he doesn't accept money from the victims family.   I really want to know when/why he's changed from a couple years ago.  I just don't get it. 

Don't discount him being "blackmailed" -- he apparently has a LOT of skeletons in his closet. ( I'm not trying to be funny -- I don't know how else to say it)

I agree.   

Thats a thought I suppose.  I'm one of those people who have to know or understand everything, though I know that's impossible. There is a reason for everything and something had to have changed.  Knowing Tim,  though he has his demons,  I just cannot fathom him turning on Beth without a reason.  And I know it wasn't anything Beth did, but something that changed his though process and actions towards her.  There has to be more to this than we know.  And again, it's NOT anything Beth did.  She's the innocent here.
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texasmom
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« Reply #956 on: September 25, 2010, 10:12:23 PM »

Thanks Klaas!  



Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #957 on: September 25, 2010, 10:14:59 PM »

Thanks Klaas for bringing the documents over!  I've got to go back and read it all.

And also many thanks to the anonymous monkey that pays the fees for the documents!


 




Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
wreck
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« Reply #958 on: September 25, 2010, 10:19:30 PM »

Mags-

Let me say it like this.

Remember when Polly Klaas was murdered? I am sure you do and how could anyone ever forget.

Do you remember when Richard Davis said Polly said - don't do me like my daddy does...

remember that?

Well, Joran could do something as cold hearted as that... what does Beth get out of it if that happens?

He's gonna be either in jail forever or dead soon and he wounds Beth all over again.

This is pure evil she confronted and it doesn't always go as planned.

He didn't kill atleast two women cause he cares about their families and their feelings.

That's why I didn't think it would be a good decision and Joran could emotionally wound Beth again and as bad as before.
I know this is for Magnolia -- but, I have to respond. The point is NOT that TJ wasn't right about his disagreement with Beth ( I disagree with his reasoning, but more in a sec). TJ went out of his way to diss Beth publicly. That was waaaaaay out of line.


Now back to Beth going to Peru:

This is not 6 months after Natalee's disappearance. This is not 2 years after her disappearance. This is over 5 years after the fact. This is NOT interfering with Aruba's case against Joran. Joran is in jail on a completely unrelated offense. Aruba has not, will not, EVER prosecute Joran for Natalee's murder. Do you really think Beth is going to get any answers waiting for "justice" to take it's course???? Do you think Joran is going to be alive in another year???? I've got news for you -- he will die in Peru (probably sooner than later). If I was Beth, I most certainly would go there and confront his ass. Be damned what anyone else thinks. EVERYONE else has failed Beth. It's a long line.
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« Reply #959 on: September 25, 2010, 10:30:50 PM »

Mags-

Let me say it like this.

Remember when Polly Klaas was murdered? I am sure you do and how could anyone ever forget.

Do you remember when Richard Davis said Polly said - don't do me like my daddy does...

remember that?

Well, Joran could do something as cold hearted as that... what does Beth get out of it if that happens?

He's gonna be either in jail forever or dead soon and he wounds Beth all over again.

This is pure evil she confronted and it doesn't always go as planned.

He didn't kill atleast two women cause he cares about their families and their feelings.

That's why I didn't think it would be a good decision and Joran could emotionally wound Beth again and as bad as before.
I know this is for Magnolia -- but, I have to respond. The point is NOT that TJ wasn't right about his disagreement with Beth ( I disagree with his reasoning, but more in a sec). TJ went out of his way to diss Beth publicly. That was waaaaaay out of line.


Now back to Beth going to Peru:

This is not 6 months after Natalee's disappearance. This is not 2 years after her disappearance. This is over 5 years after the fact. This is NOT interfering with Aruba's case against Joran. Joran is in jail on a completely unrelated offense. Aruba has not, will not, EVER prosecute Joran for Natalee's murder. Do you really think Beth is going to get any answers waiting for "justice" to take it's course???? Do you think Joran is going to be alive in another year???? I've got news for you -- he will die in Peru (probably sooner than later). If I was Beth, I most certainly would go there and confront his ass. Be damned what anyone else thinks. EVERYONE else has failed Beth. It's a long line.

I agree with most of that wreck, and you don't think or consider that Joran could harm Beth either emotionally or perhaps physically?

Peter DeVries is handsome and a former cop, but he's not bulletproof.

I think my concern and mine only was Beth could place herself in a situation where Joran gains more control and if he is dead - he takes a third victim who is emotionally murdered with him.

I know Beth is strong enough to handle most anything and everything, but you never know what a POS like Joran will do or what he is capable of.

It's a fine line and I see and understand both sides of it - really I do.

and yes, Beth relies on Beth - and it has worked - that's why I really don't question her and admire and love her.

Logged

Truth, Justice and the American Way.

+++

~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
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