Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND,OR #29 9/18/10 - 9/21/10

[darla]

Good Afternoon Monkeys and guest!
Well I think we have bat phone number three located...and I call bs on dede buying hers on June 30 or July 1.

Scandi...I don't think I have missed any of the news articles and pressers, where did you see that Kyron was seen outside the door and appeared to be waiting? Not contradicting you, just have not seen that anywhere. I have believed all along that he was taken out that door.

Hiyas Darla! 

I could be totally wrong, cuz am having a case of CRS, being old and all.  mwahaha.  But am thinking there was something said in some news article somewhere (sorry it was early on), about 'a student' having supposedly seen Kyron BY or NEAR the door (not so sure it was said that he was outside of it)..  'later in the morning'.  Don't think they ever pinpointed the time, but what it seems to have inferred (IMO) was that it was after Terri left that morning.  Then the school or LE seems to have backtracked on that info, and didn't mention it again.  Anyone else remember that? 

Oh I totally understand the CRS stuff. I can remember things 3 months ago but can't remember something I did 10 minutes ago. I just didn't remember reading that anywhere.
I just don't get what Tom and Flymonkey are getting out of this other than to rile up some Monkeys. I can assure you if a friend of mine was a suspect or poi or just underr investigation for kidnapping and possible murder of a 7 yr old child, you can bet your sweet bippy, I would not be on the internet singing their praises and injecting myself to suspicion. I would be in a corner somewhere hiding if I didn't know anything about it. And if I knew something I would be first in line to spill it to LE.

[Brandi]

Good Afternoon Monkeys and guest!
Well I think we have bat phone number three located...and I call bs on dede buying hers on June 30 or July 1.

Scandi...I don't think I have missed any of the news articles and pressers, where did you see that Kyron was seen outside the door and appeared to be waiting? Not contradicting you, just have not seen that anywhere. I have believed all along that he was taken out that door.

Hiyas Darla! 

I could be totally wrong, cuz am having a case of CRS, being old and all.  mwahaha.  But am thinking there was something said in some news article somewhere (sorry it was early on), about 'a student' having supposedly seen Kyron BY or NEAR the door (not so sure it was said that he was outside of it)..  'later in the morning'.  Don't think they ever pinpointed the time, but what it seems to have inferred (IMO) was that it was after Terri left that morning.  Then the school or LE seems to have backtracked on that info, and didn't mention it again.  Anyone else remember that? 

Oh I totally understand the CRS stuff. I can remember things 3 months ago but can't remember something I did 10 minutes ago. I just didn't remember reading that anywhere.
I just don't get what Tom and Flymonkey are getting out of this other than to rile up some Monkeys. I can assure you if a friend of mine was a suspect or poi or just underr investigation for kidnapping and possible murder of a 7 yr old child, you can bet your sweet bippy, I would not be on the internet singing their praises and injecting myself to suspicion. I would be in a corner somewhere hiding if I didn't know anything about it. And if I knew something I would be first in line to spill it to LE.

Hear! Hear!

 

[Puzzler]

Could it have been drug dealings or some kind of work to make extra cash since Kaine was so stingy with the household budget?

TH was up to something no doubt about it.  JMO

Has anyone brought up the possibility that Terri owed a drug dealer big-time? There has been nothing to suggest that she was on drugs, but she did have a problem with alcohol which she managed to hide from Kaine, so drug usage is a possibility. This is just one of my stray thoughts.

I actually think Terri had a reason to get rid of Kyron. It may have been forever or just temporarily, but it was Terri's reason alone. Having LE focus on her so quickly was not part of the plan. LE has reasons to focus on Terri, but they aren't saying what yet.

Of course, there are other possibilities, but Terri is in the center.

Oh for sure Grey, this is definitely one of the possibilities, IMO.  In fact, some of us have wondered if perhaps Terri was a drug-runner, or whatever they are called.  Somehow ending up owing someone big time, and the rest is history. 

Kind of would fit in with other discussions that have been going on about drugs.  I mean, who would suspect a mom of being a runner?  Especially if among the higher circles of folks (officials and such) that might be involved. 

Have to say, with the mention of the use of body-building drugs, Terri is the first one who came to mind as to being the runner.  Especially as she and friends have "a friend" on their facebook/myspace thingy that sells body-building drugs.  Could that be who she might be running drugs for?

Yeah, I know... That's reaching, speculating. 

The other thing that comes to mind is that one area on the Horman property that Terri said (in an interview at their home) wasn't to be cleared or whatever by the supposed landscaper.  It was one lil area in the middle of their yard and even the interviewer thought it was odd that it wasn't to be touched.  Makes me want to go in there with a bulldozer and see what's there.  Will look for that in my notes to see if I can find it again.  Was odd, to me anyway.  Am thinking it was the only interview that Terri gave early on.  (Wish my memory worked better, dangit). 

 

Couple things:

Blink's site has been discussing steroids lately, and all the LE/FBI that's been personally involved that has been uncover in the area and that made me think of Terri - possible trail

Drug dealing - I've even wondered if the tractor was bought to be used in growing pot on the Horman property - there's SO MUCH of that going on in Oregon that cops look the other way we've found out - and the possibility of Terri's travel route the morning of June 4 being a "delivery route".  It seems to me that if there are a lot of drug cartels in Portland and if Terri or Terri/Kaine had a little home-grown program going on, that the cartels would not stand for a Mom/Pop operation horning in on their territory. Maybe Terri or Terri/Kaine have been "warned" in the past to cease or else bring trouble upon themselves and the warning(s) went unheeded. 

It also brings in the spector of the landscaper...maybe he found out about it and wanted in for his take of the money.  If he didn't get it, he would inform on Terri. There "is" something that went down with Terri and the landscaper.  I just can't wrap my head around all that fuss and calling 911, etc. over a guy/gal sex thing.  I think it was much more substantive than that...maybe drug dealing - small operation - delivery route - didn't set well with big-time drug dealers.

I know it's a stretch, but I'm looking for something that would be "surprising".  That's my goal now that LE has told me I will be surprised.

[Monkey King]

I think that was a Tanner Pumala statement. Ill have to check the videos when I get on the computer.

[Justamama]

DeDe has the uncanny ability to pick friends that all write nearly exactly the same.  Simply amazes me.  What a talented woman.

 

[Puzzler]

Puzzler- Do you remember in the begining hearing a report of a white pickup and red mustang hauling a@@ back from Sauvie Island? Allegedly this was reported to the police. Also it's been stated, when discussinf life insurance policies, there was a lot of debt. IMO, as an ex wife, I can understand Terri calling Desiree because my ex husbands, now ex, would call me as well because she felt I could relate to her. The day they broke up, she came to my house and said "Everything you ever told me was true"!

MK, yes, I do recall some time back that someone reported a white truck and red mustang driving fast at Sauvie Island.  I recall asking at that time if we'd ever heard for a fact that Kaine was actually "at work all morining". My question was not well accepted, if my memory serves me right.  Anyway, I still wonder if Kaine was actually at work all moring until after lunch time.  Seems to me he could have left at any time during the morning and maybe even have gone back to work, as he seems to have a very loose schedule as to working in the office or working at home.  Would be an easy excuse to "have to go home to pickup up something".

Life insurance policies - recently read a remark Kaine's debt would eat up any life insurance proceeds...but it was from a questionable source that I read it.  Life insurance policies are not always what they seem to be, as it could be that the beneficiary or beneficiaries could be someone other than Terri (such as his children) or only a percentage to Terri and the rest to his children (i.e., 1/3 each to Terri, Kyron and Kiara OR 50% to Kyron and 50% to Terri/Kiara).

My 2 cents...

[Monkey King]

One thing I'd like to say is I know we are frustrated and anxious with this case. No-ones been named a suspect or POI and we are theorizing and speculating. If someone, cough, FlyMonkey, cough, wants to join in, let's try to minimize the annomosity and not bombard them with questions all at once. Let's not make the same mistake we did with JW. I've trying to catch up and went through pages of total cr@p. Let's get some intelligent conversation going that will help Kyron and not just ranting. *Monkey King ducks from flying bananas*

[fatcatlurker]

I like the drug theory but the not part where the cartel takes Kyron.  I think more along the lines of Kyron saw or heard something that made him a threat to Terri. 

And I'd think Steroids would be the drugs she was pushing.  JMO.

[Puzzler]

One thing I'd like to say is I know we are frustrated and anxious with this case. No-ones been named a suspect or POI and we are theorizing and speculating. If someone, cough, FlyMonkey, cough, wants to join in, let's try to minimize the annomosity and not bombard them with questions all at once. Let's not make the same mistake we did with JW. I've trying to catch up and went through pages of total cr@p. Let's get some intelligent conversation going that will help Kyron and not just ranting. *Monkey King ducks from flying bananas*

MK...not throwing bananas...tending to agree with you instead!

[Puzzler]

Good Afternoon Monkeys and guest!
Well I think we have bat phone number three located...and I call bs on dede buying hers on June 30 or July 1.

Scandi...I don't think I have missed any of the news articles and pressers, where did you see that Kyron was seen outside the door and appeared to be waiting? Not contradicting you, just have not seen that anywhere. I have believed all along that he was taken out that door.

Hiyas Darla! 

I could be totally wrong, cuz am having a case of CRS, being old and all.  mwahaha.  But am thinking there was something said in some news article somewhere (sorry it was early on), about 'a student' having supposedly seen Kyron BY or NEAR the door (not so sure it was said that he was outside of it)..  'later in the morning'.  Don't think they ever pinpointed the time, but what it seems to have inferred (IMO) was that it was after Terri left that morning.  Then the school or LE seems to have backtracked on that info, and didn't mention it again.  Anyone else remember that? 

Oh I totally understand the CRS stuff. I can remember things 3 months ago but can't remember something I did 10 minutes ago. I just didn't remember reading that anywhere.
I just don't get what Tom and Flymonkey are getting out of this other than to rile up some Monkeys. I can assure you if a friend of mine was a suspect or poi or just underr investigation for kidnapping and possible murder of a 7 yr old child, you can bet your sweet bippy, I would not be on the internet singing their praises and injecting myself to suspicion. I would be in a corner somewhere hiding if I didn't know anything about it. And if I knew something I would be first in line to spill it to LE.

Hear! Hear!

 

Agree!

[Monkey King]

I believe since Sheriff Stanton said "things we've suspected are no longer suspected" and "numerous elements"and "knowledge of things they wish they didn't", everything and everyone needs to be looked at despite peoples personal opinions. Numerous times I've tried to look at and research Kaine. People get very upset as this is the victims father. You have to remain unbiased to look at this objectively.

[Deenie]

Wyks I answered your Nanner 
__
 I am just throwing this out, Klaas feel free to give me your 2 cents.
This Fly Monkey person.  I don't know how IP's work.
Fly Monkey said that Dede's computer was still in the hands of LE. Why this long?
She said that in order for Dede to go online she has to go to the Library etc..
Could it be that Fly and Dede were at the Library " sitting next" to each other ..
While Fly offered up answers to Monkey questions? Dede feeding the answers. 
That is why the IP came up ?? not in Oregon?  Would a public library or place that offered usage of internet offer up a mixed IP address?

I had a friend who would come over to my house. Because he thought his girlfriend was cheating on him. I was friends with her too. He would come over and read her facebook.
He had her on his own, he had his own computer ( he could have read it at his house, her facebook) but He was so scared, bec he was pretty sure that his relationship was over.
He came over so we could talk as he read Her posts.. he would make me sit next to him.
And he would say " should I write something" what should I say .. tell me and I will type it.
I never did tell him, or aid him in typing ..
* just offering up and example of how I came up with " Dede and Fly" sitting together, as Fly contributed answers .. Could this be a joke to them?

It made me think of this Fly person confessing they knew so much, and some of the things they said " were either embellished, or was it where Dede was telling them what to write.
( possibly sitting next to her as she was typing) Seems hinky ..that a friend would know all these details to feel confident they could represent Dede "in a unsolved missing child's case"..writing Dede's Hearsay/ and providing info as if, she is a character witness... Nothing to add for the benefit of Kyron. How would anyone " Know" all these details ?
Is this person writing a book? and they took Notes from Dede during the height of the investigation from her? With the comments/responses that Fly offered,  DS/Fly took pleasure in " having conversations on their cells" making fun of LE etc..thinking possibly they were being monitored by LE .. "cough"... who would admit that? or even do it in the first place? 
Sounds like this person has some Moxy. That they find this possibly " entertaining" to post here on SM.

For them to want to be a Monkey to offer up such info, they felt so compelled the world needed to know. I noticed last night, while lurking, there were 64 lurkers among 15 monkeys at one time..while Fly was first typing. I went and searched on Google and typed in FlyMonkey Kyron.. Someone was on GLP coping and pasting every post of Fly, as they came in here..
Darla's question, almost made me fall over. I am glad that she did ask it though. If this person had been questioned by the police. They admitted yes they had been. 
Why would they be questioned by the Police? because this person has inserted themselves into Dede's world or into Kyron's case? I do not understand all these people " wanting to prove" what Dede is or not is all about. Since Fly " came here" to profess Dede stands for only one thing, which is the " Truth" ...
Dede has had her computer seized, her home searched, she stayed for 11 days bunkered in with Terri, purchased throw away phones with Terri to keep her privacy, won't take a poly, lawyered up a quick as a snap. Which I do not understand. If she is so innocent, why the need for an Atty. You do not see Desiree running to a law office ..do ya?

Never has expressed publicly ONE word for Kyron. Never has participated in searching for Kyron. Not seen at any of the vigils, or events held for Kyron. She though feels a bit abandoned " Kaine, doesn't want anything to do with her boo hoo ... " He owes her nothing. He certainly doesn't owe her any thanks. The only thing she has done is insert herself into the case when it was from the jump. That she felt she needed to "run to" and protect TH. My hinky meter tells me that the reason why DS and TH were so bonded from the beginning was so they could keep their stories straight. Protect each other from " who?"
They felt it was okay to allow MC into their bunker. He has such a sterling reputation. I still think he was sent in by LE..and they fell for it..two innocent women allowing him into camp Terri. And we know what happened there.. texting, sexting, him taking photos of legal docs, that were none of his business etc... Wonder what he has been up to since?   
That was my rant and opinion on Fly, I don't feel this person is here for Kyron's benefit what so ever. I feel they have an agenda. I am not going to bring this up again. If they find offense of my post, I really do not care. For this is not about " You, for you to feel any of this personal " this is about a precious little boy " Kyron Horman" who needs to be found.
 
   

[no rose colored glasses]

I believe since Sheriff Stanton said "things we've suspected are no longer suspected" and "numerous elements"and "knowledge of things they wish they didn't", everything and everyone needs to be looked at despite peoples personal opinions. Numerous times I've tried to look at and research Kaine. People get very upset as this is the victims father. You have to remain unbiased to look at this objectively.

I agree, I'm unbiased in this case because for me things don't add up.

[Puzzler]

Puzzler- Do you remember in the begining hearing a report of a white pickup and red mustang hauling a@@ back from Sauvie Island? Allegedly this was reported to the police. Also it's been stated, when discussinf life insurance policies, there was a lot of debt. IMO, as an ex wife, I can understand Terri calling Desiree because my ex husbands, now ex, would call me as well because she felt I could relate to her. The day they broke up, she came to my house and said "Everything you ever told me was true"!

MK, yes, I do recall some time back that someone reported a white truck and red mustang driving fast at Sauvie Island.  I recall asking at that time if we'd ever heard for a fact that Kaine was actually "at work all morining". My question was not well accepted, if my memory serves me right.  Anyway, I still wonder if Kaine was actually at work all moring until after lunch time.  Seems to me he could have left at any time during the morning and maybe even have gone back to work, as he seems to have a very loose schedule as to working in the office or working at home.  Would be an easy excuse to "have to go home to pickup up something".

Life insurance policies - recently read a remark Kaine's debt would eat up any life insurance proceeds...but it was from a questionable source that I read it.  Life insurance policies are not always what they seem to be, as it could be that the beneficiary or beneficiaries could be someone other than Terri (such as his children) or only a percentage to Terri and the rest to his children (i.e., 1/3 each to Terri, Kyron and Kiara OR 50% to Kyron and 50% to Terri/Kiara).

My 2 cents...

OR...life insurance policiy could have been to Kaine's "Estate" and a will specifying that all bill in the estate be paid first. 

[Puzzler]

I believe since Sheriff Stanton said "things we've suspected are no longer suspected" and "numerous elements"and "knowledge of things they wish they didn't", everything and everyone needs to be looked at despite peoples personal opinions. Numerous times I've tried to look at and research Kaine. People get very upset as this is the victims father. You have to remain unbiased to look at this objectively.

"Things we've suspected are no longer suspected" - those words have been echoing through my mind ever since the LE presser.

[no rose colored glasses]

I believe since Sheriff Stanton said "things we've suspected are no longer suspected" and "numerous elements"and "knowledge of things they wish they didn't", everything and everyone needs to be looked at despite peoples personal opinions. Numerous times I've tried to look at and research Kaine. People get very upset as this is the victims father. You have to remain unbiased to look at this objectively.

"Things we've suspected are no longer suspected" - those words have been echoing through my mind ever since the LE presser.

Me too 

[klaasend]

I believe since Sheriff Stanton said "things we've suspected are no longer suspected" and "numerous elements"and "knowledge of things they wish they didn't", everything and everyone needs to be looked at despite peoples personal opinions. Numerous times I've tried to look at and research Kaine. People get very upset as this is the victims father. You have to remain unbiased to look at this objectively.

I would agree except I don't think there is a chance in hell Kaine would have been given temporary custody of Kiara if LE suspected him at all, even the slightest. 

[Puzzler]

I believe since Sheriff Stanton said "things we've suspected are no longer suspected" and "numerous elements"and "knowledge of things they wish they didn't", everything and everyone needs to be looked at despite peoples personal opinions. Numerous times I've tried to look at and research Kaine. People get very upset as this is the victims father. You have to remain unbiased to look at this objectively.

"Things we've suspected are no longer suspected" - those words have been echoing through my mind ever since the LE presser.

Me too 

I thought we learned a lot in the last press conference...not nitty-gritty tidbits, but big picture type things:

things we've suspected are not longer suspected
learning things we wish we didn't know
other investigations likely
likely to inform other government agencies
lots of stress on staff
restructuring and focusing a task force
no mention of Terri, DeDe, white truck, flyers

I'm sure I'm missing a couple of big items, but I thought this presser was more open, honest and told us a lot.  I just wish I had a special pair of glasses that would let me read between the lines.   

[Wyks]

Get that spade out and go, girl!  It's noticable that you've not been posting as much lately and I, for one, always look forward to reading your posts.  They are thought provoking.  IMO we need to look at all possibilities and keep an open mind until the very end. Even the last LE presser said we'd be "surprised" and they've found out things they "wish they hadn't".

Some don't like hearing anything other than Terri is responsibile...maybe she is...or at least I think she's "involved" in some manner.  But I don't think Terri did this all by herself, I think others are involved....and according to previous pressers, LE does too...even Kaine/Desiree have mentioned so.  So, IMO, anyone who can't see beyond "Terri is guilty", is shutting down on all the possibilities of "who else is involved", "what is the trigger for this happening" and why is LE "so upset at what they've found out".  LE isn't upset at Terri sexting, having affairs, etc.  That is something "we all know" about.  That's not a surprise.  Terri, and all her undesirable actions, is NOT a surprise. 

I not only want a guilty person to be held accountable, I want ALL the guilty parties held accountable!

I understand the deep passions of thinking Terri is guilty and when you think that, IMO, it can get you sidetraked on how much you dislike her because of this (I know I do that). But then I give myself a little talk and say you're never going to find out clues if you have such tunnel vision.  One thing lately that really got me away from tunnel vision was the last LE presser.  Boy, did they ever let us know (as best they could) that there is soooo much more involved in this case. 

There's other things out there to be found.  So, get that spade out and get to digging!

 

Awwww thanks Puzzler!  Well I'd love nothing more than to dig dig dig with that shovel, oh yeah!  Seems that's one of my fav things to do in these cases.  Question everything, and everyone involved.  As in other cases, I am an 'equal opportunity theorist' in this case as well.  I can look at everyone involved in a case and build some sort of theory each one. 

No matter what LE says, cuz we've seen in some cases how biased they can be at times.  Stacy Peterson's case comes to mind, where her husband is former LE himself, and how they can and do (at times) look the other way and/or hush things up for their 'brother/sister' in blue.  I am ever conscious of the fact that we have members of LE in this case, in the family.  And it doesn't help the case much for LE that I have personal knowledge of the local LE and high officials in the Portland area.  I do try to trust LE in a case, unless/until they start sounding 'off', then I start looking at them and their actions or non-actions just as much as any other person in a case. 

Officer Gates tho, seems to be above-board.  I'd like to think he can be trusted.  But this LE overall, (or is it the FBI?  who IS in charge of this case?), seems to be playing games with the public/media, at the least.  And I dunno if it's 'games', or if it is some kind of special tactics they may be using.  The end result is that ---> IMO <--- they are all coming off as being mighty suspicious.  Even other LE officials elsewhere have been scratching their heads over how this case has been handled SOOOOOO very differently than any other case... ever.  (Their words). 

So all that has my hinky meter going off, from the start. 

And we cannot discuss everyone in this case, not on this board.  Klaas has made that very clear.  While I do believe that Terri had some amount of involvement in disappearing Kyron, I do not believe that she acted alone.  I personally think that family dynamics play a huge role in this case.  But cannot get into any of that in here, without angering/offending several, and getting accused of being a 'Terri supporter'.  When I definitely am NOT! 

So I've dug on my own, and found some of the things that I think y'all are gonna be hearing about soon, which supposedly will 'surprise' so many in the public.  And all I can say here and now, is that it looks like Rob was right, in that things are not as they seem.  I truly think that many folks in this case need to open their eyes and start considering possibilities they didn't want to consider before.  Otherwise they may be hit hard by some falling bricks when all is said and done.   I do believe that what was said by LE at the last presser was intended to soften the blow when it comes.  IMO. 

And I believe that in some ways, LE was taken in early on themselves, and have tried to distance themselves from that.  If you go back and carefully look at how LE seems to have changed over time, presenting themselves differently in pressers and such, seperately from the family, you might pick up some clues.  All IMO.   

It seems to me that several different things are going on in this case, at the same time.  Perhaps all not related to Kyron's having gone missing.  That, of course, ought to be the central focus.  Am thinking tho, that when all is said and done, just as with the HaLeigh case, it will be found that much of the differing aspects in this case are entwined somehow. 

And it's for that reason I'd like to be allowed to dig into everything, no matter what/who.  It's what we've done in other cases, and I don't understand why it's become a 'bannable' thing to do in this case.  But it's not a hill I want to die on, or get banned over.  So I stay quiet, hoping for the day I am proven wrong. 

[klaasend]

I believe since Sheriff Stanton said "things we've suspected are no longer suspected" and "numerous elements"and "knowledge of things they wish they didn't", everything and everyone needs to be looked at despite peoples personal opinions. Numerous times I've tried to look at and research Kaine. People get very upset as this is the victims father. You have to remain unbiased to look at this objectively.

"Things we've suspected are no longer suspected" - those words have been echoing through my mind ever since the LE presser.

Me too 

I thought we learned a lot in the last press conference...not nitty-gritty tidbits, but big picture type things:

things we've suspected are not longer suspected
learning things we wish we didn't know
other investigations likely
likely to inform other government agencies
lots of stress on staff
restructuring and focusing a task force
no mention of Terri, DeDe, white truck, flyers (maybe that's because witnesses came forth and "things that were suspected are no longer suspected")?

I'm sure I'm missing a couple of big items, but I thought this presser was more open, honest and told us a lot.  I just wish I had a special pair of glasses that would let me read between the lines.   

My comment in red above.

I believe they have more than one witness now putting Kyron and another adult next to Kaine's truck at the school during the times in question.  I also believe whatever happened, was due to Terri being angry at Kaine.  She wanted to get back at him.