Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND,OR #29 9/18/10 - 9/21/10

[no rose colored glasses]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

[Kokos Cat]

What I wonder is "Did Kyron leave that school alive" which I am assuming...because of the family press conferences and LE's statements...now it seems that LE's wording has changed.

 

Harry Oakes, International K-9 Search and Rescue, has searched all public areas.  As far as I know, no human death scent from the school.  Just from the Horman property, which Kaine will not allow to be searched.

When Kyron left the school, he was still alive.

Please see this thread for details:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8432.200

Respectfully,

K. Cat



 

I remember this...and it still blows my mind...three things...Why did he not let them search his property...his child is missing!! And why didn't Terri allow LE to search the property once Kaine left?  And has Kaine allowed a search on his property since Terri has left?

Novella,

Thanks for posing this question. 

Kaine has not allowed search expert Harry Oakes, no.  I don't know about LE, but given their history here in Oregon, that means nothing, unfortunately. 

Please see Sassi & Klaas' thread for details regarding SAR (search and rescue) for Kyron.  This link begins at page one, as I meant for the last link to do:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8432.0

Good luck with this, Monkeys.  It's a tough nut to crack, IMO. 
 

Kaine did allow to search his property and use dogs..whatever they wanted or needed.  Remember Desiree's husband, Tony, is a dective himself.  There was no way not searching the property would have been a problem from the get go.  At the beginning of this, not only were Desiree and Tony staying at the Horman's home, an LE was assigned to stay in the home with them.

Kaine has not allowed Harry Oakes to search the property more then likely because LE already has searched there.  Let's not forget that Harry Oakes and LE have bad blood over past searches and Kaine may have decided, along with Tony and Desiree, that he did not want to piss off LE during the investigation.

Ah, but Gypsy, with all due respect,

    We have been living this recurring nightmare for years in Oregon.  Kyron is just the frog on the cake. 

    Please note, below, ONE situation out of countless others, where it mattered not that LE had searched before. This is according to MSNBC: 




http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/from/ET/

Harry Oakes, private investigator: The track led from the apartment complex up the road, the staircase, to Ward’s property.

That name again.

Harry, with his Valerie now excited and on the chase, knocked at Weaver’s door and asked for permission to search the house.

    Harry Oakes: He said, “I don’t have any problem with you searching, they’ve already brought in 7 different search dog teams. I have nothing to hide.” During the search of the house she gave me a death alert of Ashley’s scent in Ward’s hallway.

    Morrison: Did Valerie alert anywhere else?

    Oakes: Yes. When we went outside to the back area, there was a slab that had been poured.

    Morrison: A concrete slab?

    Oakes: A concrete slab. And where the slab met with the grass, the dirt where they came together, my dog was smelling Ashley’s scent coming out of there.

    Morrison: Did you call 911?

    Oakes: I made a report and turned it into Oregon City police department.

A record of Harry’s report shows it was indeed turned in to police on March 20th, less than two weeks after Miranda disappeared.

    Morrison: Was there any reaction from the police?

    Oakes: They basically ignored us.

    Morrison: What about the FBI?

    Oakes: Ignored us.

[Kokos Cat]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

There were no cameras at skyline school.  Is this what you are referring to, Rose?
They just installed them before school started this year.  Right after moving Kyron's "Wall of Hope", I believe.

[Kokos Cat]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

ooops.  Sorry!  Jumped in with both feet.  Just re read your post & IDK.  Sounds like you've researched that.  Good question.

[fatcatlurker]

One of the problems with all this, (and backed up by Mr. Oakes), is look how MANY folks were searching.. all meeting AT THE SCHOOL and tromping around the schoolgrounds, getting ready to go OUT to do all that searching.  And in the meantime, spent little actual time tiptoeing the area of the 'supposed crime scene' THE SCHOOL inside and outside, itself.  A tracking dog likely couldn't find its own handler after that many folks had tromped thru the area. 

They 'should have' roped off the entire school and grounds while just a few trained experts initially searched the whole place top to bottom.  But they didn't do that.  They showed up enmass, destroying any possible evidence in the meantime.  Then within a day and a half, released the 'scene' to the public to show up enmass.  Sigh. 

Dear Wyks,

Good point.     This is so sad.  Total FUBAR, IMO.

 
   

You know...on second reading about the school not being roped off, really irks me at all the seemingly incomptence. 

With someone taking Kyron; the school not being responsible; LE not being responsible - that's three strikes!  Did the little guy stand a chance at all?

I think I am confused here.  I thought in this case imparticular, they only used people from LE, fire and rescue..etc to search..that all the people searching were trained in searching.  That this wasn't a public search with just anyone stopping by to search.  Due to the terrain, the critters and the weather..I was sure only trained people searched in specific search areas..then the public was asked to search their own properties..but not to come out to search with LE and the search and rescue people.  I am starting right when he went missing and even in the first week or so.

I just read that on Sunday after June 4th LE/investigators had the students and parents come to the school in shifts to question them...maybe this is what Mr. Oates is referring to.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Timeline-Search-for-missing-Kyron-Horman-95798389.html

Saturday, June 5

The search continues through the night and through the weekend. A tip line is set up: 503-261-2847.

Sunday, June 6

Parents of other children at the school are interviewed at the school on a staggered basis in hopes of developing new clues that could lead investigators to the missing boy.

Monday , June 7

Skyline Elementary reopens with new security measures in place. Investigators continue to search for Kyran Horman.

[Puzzler]

Wyks with your last post do you not think that Kaine was at work that morning?  My understanding was Kaine worked in the morning and then came home in the afternoon to work. I don't have a link for that, but believe that is what happened.

Yes, I believe he was at work that morning.  He supposedly 'had a meeting' to attend at Intel, and then spent the afternoon working at home.  I just wish Intel/LE would confirm that for the public.  We have Kaine's word for it, which I don't question at this point.  Confirmation on anything from LE would be nice tho. 

Yes.  Kaine worked from home. 

Now... here is something: email from Kaine to Intel employees advising them not to speak to the media.

KAINE'S EMAIL TO FELLOW INTEL EMPLOYEES

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8202.110;wap2

From: Horman, Kaine A
Sent: Sunday, June 06, 2010 8:39 AM
Subject: FW: Kaine Horman's son is missing

All,

If you have seen local Oregon news or been browsing the internet or FaceBook there is a good chance you have seen an article similar to the one that Becky forwarded (below).  While this note is difficult for me to write in this state of mind I felt it necessary for Kyron’s sake.

Optional actions for you:

The Intel network is large and wide-reaching.  Many have asked me what they can do to help us and my answer is the following:

1.       Forward Kyron’s information to as many people as you feel comfortable with; the more people that see this will increase our chances of finding him

2.       Do not speak to any media if contacted; I am trying to contact Intel legal to give them the heads up and help with this situation

Physical description at the time of his disappearance (picture is show in Becky’s note and here):

He is 3 foot 8 and 50 pounds, with blue eyes and brown hair. He was wearing black cargo pants, white socks, worn black Sketcher tennis shoes with orange trim and dark-colored t-shirt with the "CSI" show logo

Police Hot Line Number:

(503) 261-2847

Some rough background:

The article that Becky forwarded is pretty accurate with details.  He was dropped off at school about 8:45 and went missing sometime between then and 9 or 9:30am.  We did not know he was not at school until we went to get him off of the bus at 3:30 and he was nowhere to be found.  The bus driver immediately called the school which responded that his teacher had not seen him all day in class, at which point we notified police in partnership with the school.  It is still unknown whether he left school grounds on his own or was abducted.  Be assured that there are currently an amazing number of agencies and amount of person-power being applied to the search and investigation.

Thank you all for the thoughts and prayers for Kyron’s safe return.  I will update the group once status changes which will hopefully be soon.  At the time of this note Kyron has now been missing for ~48 hours; time is of the essence.

Kaine Horman
Enterprise Business Architect
Intel Corporation

http://ackerlaw.com/posts/2010/06/07/missing_child__kyron_horman_7

Koko...thank you.  So Kaine says Kyron went missing sometime between 9-9:30 a.m.

Correction: Kaine says Kyron went missing between 8:45 and 9-9:30 a.m.

[hellokitty]

People have been wondering about Terri and why she is not fighting to see her daughter.  This is a part of their reasoning that Terri is cold hearted, etc...

In my opinion- ta dah!, Terri is in a very bad spot.  She has received death threats, according to her attorney, and everywhere she goes, she's pretty much bombarded by the press and sometimes, there's like a mob following her.  How can she guarantee the safety of her daughter? 

If it were me, I would put my own maternal needs aside, as I would at least know my daughter was safe.

She could ask for supervised visitation in a safe spot, but she has chosen not to.

Do we know for sure that Terri has not asked for supervised visitation?  I've not read anything on this before now.  Thanks.

 

She did not respond to the RO. Therefore, as I understand it, it is in effect for a year.

It appears that she has not asked for supervised visitation as there is no reason that she would not get it.

Convicted people get visitation.  Children even visit parents in prison.

[Scandi]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

Hi ya No rose,   I think at first LE were looking at Kyron as having wandered away from the school as they saw no evidence of a crime scene.  That is often a problem with missing children where the intense search starts way too late.   I never saw a photo with crime tape either probably for the same reason - where would one string it without a crime scene?  IMO

[Gypsy DD]

I would really like to know what Terri's reaction at the school was that afternoon.  She didn't want to phone Desiree..she asked the school secretary to do that, but Desiree wanted to speak with her.  Infact Desiree knew Terri well enough to ask the lady on the phone if Terri was standing right there.  She said YES and Desiree immediately hung up and  called Terri.

I wonder what Terri's demeanor was at the school..I wonder.

I do not blame the school.  The parents at that school knew the systems that were in place and how they worked.  If they were inadequate then something should have been done long before this time.

I think that Terri and whoever pulled this off knew exactly how that system worked and were actually playing to that system.  Had this person wanted to take Kyron so badly, they would have found another avenue even if the school had daily lockdown in place.  This isn't about the schoolmishandling this, this isn't about LE mishandling this..this is about someone who needed a payback of sorts from Terri..and Kyron was that payback.  The science fair was just an opportunity Terri couldn't pass up..as it also made the school and Kyron's teacher look bad.   Of course that is just my opinion..I certainly could be wrong.

[Kokos Cat]

People have been wondering about Terri and why she is not fighting to see her daughter.  This is a part of their reasoning that Terri is cold hearted, etc...

In my opinion- ta dah!, Terri is in a very bad spot.  She has received death threats, according to her attorney, and everywhere she goes, she's pretty much bombarded by the press and sometimes, there's like a mob following her.  How can she guarantee the safety of her daughter? 

If it were me, I would put my own maternal needs aside, as I would at least know my daughter was safe.

She could ask for supervised visitation in a safe spot, but she has chosen not to.

Do we know for sure that Terri has not asked for supervised visitation?  I've not read anything on this before now.  Thanks.

 

She did not respond to the RO. Therefore, as I understand it, it is in effect for a year.

It appears that she has not asked for supervised visitation as there is no reason that she would not get it.

Convicted people get visitation.  Children even visit parents in prison.

Hmmm.... interesting.

Kitty, How do we know she did not respond to the restraining order? 

Thanks,

K. Cat

[Puzzler]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

Hi ya No rose,   I think at first LE were looking at Kyron as having wandered away from the school as they saw no evidence of a crime scene.  That is often a problem with missing children where the intense search starts way too late.   I never saw a photo with crime tape either probably for the same reason - where would one string it without a crime scene?  IMO

Well IMO if LE were looking at Kyron wondering away and, therefore, didn't secure the scene properly - that is incompetence pure and simple!

[Gypsy DD]

What I wonder is "Did Kyron leave that school alive" which I am assuming...because of the family press conferences and LE's statements...now it seems that LE's wording has changed.

 

Harry Oakes, International K-9 Search and Rescue, has searched all public areas.  As far as I know, no human death scent from the school.  Just from the Horman property, which Kaine will not allow to be searched.

When Kyron left the school, he was still alive.

Please see this thread for details:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8432.200

Respectfully,

K. Cat



 

I remember this...and it still blows my mind...three things...Why did he not let them search his property...his child is missing!! And why didn't Terri allow LE to search the property once Kaine left?  And has Kaine allowed a search on his property since Terri has left?

Novella,

Thanks for posing this question. 

Kaine has not allowed search expert Harry Oakes, no.  I don't know about LE, but given their history here in Oregon, that means nothing, unfortunately. 

Please see Sassi & Klaas' thread for details regarding SAR (search and rescue) for Kyron.  This link begins at page one, as I meant for the last link to do:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8432.0

Good luck with this, Monkeys.  It's a tough nut to crack, IMO. 
 

Kaine did allow to search his property and use dogs..whatever they wanted or needed.  Remember Desiree's husband, Tony, is a dective himself.  There was no way not searching the property would have been a problem from the get go.  At the beginning of this, not only were Desiree and Tony staying at the Horman's home, an LE was assigned to stay in the home with them.

Kaine has not allowed Harry Oakes to search the property more then likely because LE already has searched there.  Let's not forget that Harry Oakes and LE have bad blood over past searches and Kaine may have decided, along with Tony and Desiree, that he did not want to piss off LE during the investigation.

Ah, but Gypsy, with all due respect,

    We have been living this recurring nightmare for years in Oregon.  Kyron is just the frog on the cake. 

    Please note, below, ONE situation out of countless others, where it mattered not that LE had searched before. This is according to MSNBC: 




http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/from/ET/

Harry Oakes, private investigator: The track led from the apartment complex up the road, the staircase, to Ward’s property.

That name again.

Harry, with his Valerie now excited and on the chase, knocked at Weaver’s door and asked for permission to search the house.

    Harry Oakes: He said, “I don’t have any problem with you searching, they’ve already brought in 7 different search dog teams. I have nothing to hide.” During the search of the house she gave me a death alert of Ashley’s scent in Ward’s hallway.

    Morrison: Did Valerie alert anywhere else?

    Oakes: Yes. When we went outside to the back area, there was a slab that had been poured.

    Morrison: A concrete slab?

    Oakes: A concrete slab. And where the slab met with the grass, the dirt where they came together, my dog was smelling Ashley’s scent coming out of there.

    Morrison: Did you call 911?

    Oakes: I made a report and turned it into Oregon City police department.

A record of Harry’s report shows it was indeed turned in to police on March 20th, less than two weeks after Miranda disappeared.

    Morrison: Was there any reaction from the police?

    Oakes: They basically ignored us.

    Morrison: What about the FBI?

    Oakes: Ignored us.

TY KoKo's cat/  I see now where another search on Kaine's property with Harry's dogs might be inorder.

[Scandi]

Hi Puzzler,  You said "Correction: Kaine says Kyron went missing between 8:45 and 9-9:30 a.m"]/i]. 

He wrote that letter on Sunday the 6th.  I think it was the first timeline and very approximate, then refined by LE as they learned more.  I wish I knew when Terri made that statement of her timeline.


PS:  I haven't reached my owners wife yet today but will keep trying.  xox

[Scandi]

Sorry about the screw up in the above post.  Maybe a dear Mod could fix it  ;}

[Puzzler]

Hi Puzzler,  You said "Correction: Kaine says Kyron went missing between 8:45 and 9-9:30 a.m"]/i]. 

He wrote that letter on Sunday the 6th.  I think it was the first timeline and very approximate, then refined by LE as they learned more.  I wish I knew when Terri made that statement of her timeline.


PS:  I haven't reached my owners wife yet today but will keep trying.  xox

Thank you.

[Gypsy DD]

People have been wondering about Terri and why she is not fighting to see her daughter.  This is a part of their reasoning that Terri is cold hearted, etc...

In my opinion- ta dah!, Terri is in a very bad spot.  She has received death threats, according to her attorney, and everywhere she goes, she's pretty much bombarded by the press and sometimes, there's like a mob following her.  How can she guarantee the safety of her daughter? 

If it were me, I would put my own maternal needs aside, as I would at least know my daughter was safe.

She could ask for supervised visitation in a safe spot, but she has chosen not to.

Do we know for sure that Terri has not asked for supervised visitation?  I've not read anything on this before now.  Thanks.

 

She did not respond to the RO. Therefore, as I understand it, it is in effect for a year.

It appears that she has not asked for supervised visitation as there is no reason that she would not get it.

Convicted people get visitation.  Children even visit parents in prison.

Hmmm.... interesting.

Kitty, How do we know she did not respond to the restraining order? 

Thanks,

K. Cat

I think she only had like 5 days or two weeks to respond..but she never did....interesting.!

Of course she did have time for sexting MC at this point.  Starts to paint a clear picture of her priorities.

[fatcatlurker]

I don't see how a search on the Horman's property could hurt at this point either and Kaine should be more than willing to do it, IMO.  Maybe he could just find somebody other than Mr. Oates if he is such an issue?

[Puzzler]

If there are about 300 students at Skyline School, wonder just how many people were at that school that morning if you include all the school employees and all the parents?

[Kokos Cat]

I would really like to know what Terri's reaction at the school was that afternoon.  She didn't want to phone Desiree..she asked the school secretary to do that, but Desiree wanted to speak with her.  Infact Desiree knew Terri well enough to ask the lady on the phone if Terri was standing right there.  She said YES and Desiree immediately hung up and  called Terri.

I wonder what Terri's demeanor was at the school..I wonder.

I do not blame the school.  The parents at that school knew the systems that were in place and how they worked.  If they were inadequate then something should have been done long before this time.

I think that Terri and whoever pulled this off knew exactly how that system worked and were actually playing to that system.  Had this person wanted to take Kyron so badly, they would have found another avenue even if the school had daily lockdown in place.  This isn't about the schoolmishandling this, this isn't about LE mishandling this..this is about someone who needed a payback of sorts from Terri..and Kyron was that payback.  The science fair was just an opportunity Terri couldn't pass up..as it also made the school and Kyron's teacher look bad.   Of course that is just my opinion..I certainly could be wrong.

At that time it appeared she was the last known person to see Kyron.  If I were here, I would feel like utter !$#! that I had somehow "lost" my stepson.  I wouldn't want to talk to Desiree, either!

Anyway, there is at least one other person that did see Kyron alive after Terri.  Tanner Pumala, age 8, Kyron's desk mate.  Interviewed by MCSO & FBI, he (or, his parents, I should say, since he was a minor, were asked not to discuss those interviews.) 

I wonder why his guardian's let him be interviewed? 

Incidentally, Tanner Pumala's FATHER lived in some houseboat on Sauvie Island where divers searched for Kyron.  Tanner's GRANDMOTHER (who appears in this interview) lived next door to the Hormans.  (I assume Tanner did too, which is why he attended the same school as Kyron.)

I posted this earlier, but am bumping it. 

As far as I can tell this kid is the last KNOWN person to see Kyron, alive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tAZ1FmHtcI
<a href="http://&lt;object style=&quot;height: 344px; width: 425px&quot;&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;movie&quot; value=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/v/6tAZ1FmHtcI?version=3&quot;&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;allowFullScreen&quot; value=&quot;true&quot;&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;allowScriptAccess&quot; value=&quot;always&quot;&gt;&lt;embed src=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/v/6tAZ1FmHtcI?version=3&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; allowfullscreen=&quot;true&quot; allowScriptAccess=&quot;always&quot; width=&quot;425&quot; height=&quot;344&quot;&gt;&lt;/object&gt;" target="_blank">http://&lt;object style=&quot;height: 344px; width: 425px&quot;&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;movie&quot; value=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/v/6tAZ1FmHtcI?version=3&quot;&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;allowFullScreen&quot; value=&quot;true&quot;&gt;&lt;param name=&quot;allowScriptAccess&quot; value=&quot;always&quot;&gt;&lt;embed src=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/v/6tAZ1FmHtcI?version=3&quot; type=&quot;application/x-shockwave-flash&quot; allowfullscreen=&quot;true&quot; allowScriptAccess=&quot;always&quot; width=&quot;425&quot; height=&quot;344&quot;&gt;&lt;/object&gt;</a>

[hellokitty]

 

LE has said several times that Terri was the last person to see Kyron.  That means that Tanner did not see Kyron after Terrri saw him.