Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND,OR #29 9/18/10 - 9/21/10

[Kokos Cat]

I don't see how a search on the Horman's property could hurt at this point either and Kaine should be more than willing to do it, IMO.  Maybe he could just find somebody other than Mr. Oates if he is such an issue?

Dear Fatcat,

LE has the issue with Oakes.  If Kaine is innocent of any wrong doing, the only reason I can see for him not wanting the search is that he has been advised by LE not to use a private search and rescue expert. 

Would he have a problem with Tim Miller?  Seems like a neutral choice.



Respectfully,

K. Cat


Below, please find some relevant quotes from Sassi & Klaas' thread titled  Harry Oakes K9 Search and Rescue - Questions and Answers

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8432.200

Sorry I am having a brain fade at the moment. What is the other guys name that does the scent tracking? As a compromise if everyone hates Hary, can he and Harry work together or this other man have his dogs search.
Kaine you need to allow this, there is not a reason on earth it should not be done. Don't want to be mean but come on already.

Hiya TracyGirl!

I believe it's Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch.  Haven't been able to quickly find his website (don't know if he has one).  Below please find an article about him that I grabbed... I don't even have time to read it.  Don't know much about the source, either. 

For what it's worth: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/texas_equusearch/1.html 

I believe I may have been the one ??? to ask Harry if he would consider working with Tim Miller (check back in this forum to confirm) and he said:  "YES".  Or did I dream this?!?  Sorry... I'm like the white rabbit here... I'm late, I'm late, I'm late...  I apologize in advance if I'm taking credit for someone else in the Q & A portion of this! 

Good luck Monkeys! 

You're cute Koko!  Actually I asked the question and didn't post an answer to it because I thought the answer had nothing to do with Kyron. 

Within the next few days, because I'm taking my time writing the request because of it being such a delicate area, I'll send it out. I'll keep you updated as things proceed. 

This is the first missing child case that I have been proactive in, and I have a feeling it won't be the last. I'm more of a doer than a talker. I'm not experienced with forums. I've never been on a forum until my concern about this case hit, but I sure have learned a lot from the Monkeys here. I've made some mistakes in my communication with other people, but I want to assure you that my intentions are always sincere.

Enough babbling from me.  I'll keep you posted! 

Sassi,
   Oh, that's right!  I forgot....You read my mind re: that question to Harry!  Thanks so much.

 
   Now.... I'm wondering.... how did I come up with a "yes" answer to that question?  Did I read YOUR mind?  Because, if so, maybe I'm in the wrong line of work! 
   (Sorry for the confusion and laziness on my part, should have gone back and read my own posts!)
 
K. Cat
   

[Puzzler]

Below is a mention of Kyron being seen late hour of the morning:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.20
Reply #35

I'm snipping and bumping this back up, because it looks to me like there are questions about the initial timeline, and it looks like most articles/news aren't picking up on the possible change.  This may just throw the 8:45 a.m. as the last sighting of Kyron out the window.  The sighting of Kyron at a later time came from interviews, and from what I understand, the interviews aren't finished yet, so there may be another person that saw Kyron or saw someone/something and the timeline may change.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/95734359.html
School security will be tightened after 7 year old's disappearance
June 6, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. – Interviews with those who were at Friday's science fair at Skyline Elementary School – where a 7-year-old student is believed to have disappeared – may have turned up at least one new piece of information.

In a press conference Sunday afternoon, a Multnomah County Sheriff's Office spokesman now says Kyron Horman was last seen at "a late hour in the morning." This raises questions about the 8:45 a.m. time released by the Sheriff's Office in its press release about this case.
(snipped)

[Nana29]

IMO, Tanner probably  believes he saw Kyron at that time...children that age are (for the most part) honest and forthcoming. But...based on the 3 grandsons(ages 4,7, and 8, almost 9 ) who live in my home(yikes!what is a spare room?       )children at that age cannot be so time specific, not that I have seen anyway. Have to be very careful putting stock in statement of time("yesterday" could be last week to the youngest) . Even the older one is fuzzy on what time things occur..."IDK Nana, maybe a while ago?"

[Puzzler]

Here's another mention of Kyron being seen late:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.20
Reply #37

Snipped http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/still_no_trace_of_kyron_horman.html 


During police interviews Sunday, a student said he last saw Kyron later that morning near the south entrance to the school. That was the last time the boy was seen, Staton said.
At some point that morning, Kyron's teacher, Kristina Porter, marked the boy as absent. But it wasn't until 3:30 p.m. -- when his stepmother, Terri Moulton Horman,  met the school bus -- that she discovered Kyron had been absent from school.

Nora Schreiber,  a Skyline parent and volunteer, said the school has three main entrances and one secure exit. Two of the doorways are near the main office and are monitored, while a third on the north side of the school is not. Kyron's classroom is adjacent to that door, which opens onto a rear parking lot.

Schreiber said she and her son, Jacob, 9, were interviewed Sunday by a federal agent. She said she told the agent that Friday was an especially hectic day at Skyline.

"On a normal day, seeing a stranger will make you go, 'Hmm. I wonder who that is?' On such a hectic day as Friday, there was such a lot going on. To tell you the truth, I was focused on looking at the (science) project and helping Jacob fill out his (evaluation) form and not on the faces around me."

Schreiber said Kyron was supposed to perform in the school's talent show at 1 p.m. but she didn't see him there.  (snipped)

[no rose colored glasses]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

There were no cameras at skyline school.  Is this what you are referring to, Rose?
They just installed them before school started this year.  Right after moving Kyron's "Wall of Hope", I believe.

No that I was aware of, I was speaking of searchers, I thought that all the people searching, at least in the beginning were experienced searchers.

[no rose colored glasses]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

Hi ya No rose,   I think at first LE were looking at Kyron as having wandered away from the school as they saw no evidence of a crime scene.  That is often a problem with missing children where the intense search starts way too late.   I never saw a photo with crime tape either probably for the same reason - where would one string it without a crime scene?  IMO

That's true I guess because where exactly would the crime scene be, unless they considered the school and the area around the school as a crime scene and they probably don't put tape up all the time anyway. I can see that they might have thought he wandered away and what a dangerous area for a child that age, he could have gotten hurt in so many places around there 

[klaasend]

Below is a mention of Kyron being seen late hour of the morning:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.20
Reply #35

I'm snipping and bumping this back up, because it looks to me like there are questions about the initial timeline, and it looks like most articles/news aren't picking up on the possible change.  This may just throw the 8:45 a.m. as the last sighting of Kyron out the window.  The sighting of Kyron at a later time came from interviews, and from what I understand, the interviews aren't finished yet, so there may be another person that saw Kyron or saw someone/something and the timeline may change.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/95734359.html
School security will be tightened after 7 year old's disappearance
June 6, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. – Interviews with those who were at Friday's science fair at Skyline Elementary School – where a 7-year-old student is believed to have disappeared – may have turned up at least one new piece of information.

In a press conference Sunday afternoon, a Multnomah County Sheriff's Office spokesman now says Kyron Horman was last seen at "a late hour in the morning." This raises questions about the 8:45 a.m. time released by the Sheriff's Office in its press release about this case.
(snipped)

Wonder if he was seen in a white truck in the Fred Meyer parking lot?

[Nana29]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

There were no cameras at skyline school.  Is this what you are referring to, Rose?
They just installed them before school started this year.  Right after moving Kyron's "Wall of Hope", I believe.

No that I was aware of, I was speaking of searchers, I thought that all the people searching, at least in the beginning were experienced searchers.

IIRC, in the beginning it was not criminal...only a missing child, so who would have known to "protect" a crime scene? They were frantically seeking a lost child who may have wandered off? or? I would say it was not until later(not necessarily too much later) that things started to look "odd" and the sinking feeling start to hit that "it can happen to me"!
  I still wonder why , without written documentation(re doc appt or whatever from herself) why the school did not double check with a quick call? It is never safe to assume...made them look a little a$inine  at the very least!   

[Puzzler]

Below is a mention of Kyron being seen late hour of the morning:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.20
Reply #35

I'm snipping and bumping this back up, because it looks to me like there are questions about the initial timeline, and it looks like most articles/news aren't picking up on the possible change.  This may just throw the 8:45 a.m. as the last sighting of Kyron out the window.  The sighting of Kyron at a later time came from interviews, and from what I understand, the interviews aren't finished yet, so there may be another person that saw Kyron or saw someone/something and the timeline may change.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/95734359.html
School security will be tightened after 7 year old's disappearance
June 6, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. – Interviews with those who were at Friday's science fair at Skyline Elementary School – where a 7-year-old student is believed to have disappeared – may have turned up at least one new piece of information.

In a press conference Sunday afternoon, a Multnomah County Sheriff's Office spokesman now says Kyron Horman was last seen at "a late hour in the morning." This raises questions about the 8:45 a.m. time released by the Sheriff's Office in its press release about this case.
(snipped)

Wonder if he was seen in a white truck in the Fred Meyer parking lot?

I wonder the same thing.  Often wondered if LE was asking folks to come forward with any info of that parking lot - passing off a child or container between vehicles?

[Kokos Cat]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

Hi ya No rose,   I think at first LE were looking at Kyron as having wandered away from the school as they saw no evidence of a crime scene.  That is often a problem with missing children where the intense search starts way too late.   I never saw a photo with crime tape either probably for the same reason - where would one string it without a crime scene?  IMO

That's true I guess because where exactly would the crime scene be, unless they considered the school and the area around the school as a crime scene and they probably don't put tape up all the time anyway. I can see that they might have thought he wandered away and what a dangerous area for a child that age, he could have gotten hurt in so many places around there 

Yes, Rose.  I'm not sure when it turned from a missing child case to a criminal one. 

As far as Search and Rescue standard procedure here, we need HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLP!   

[Tracygirl]

I have never seen a case like this. There's strong emotions, that cannot be denied. I like puzzlers comment about being on the side of truth. I think we all can say that but to be honest, the truth has many sides in this case. I suppose it is all about who you believe and not believe an what assumptions a person can come up with as to why somebody did something or somebody said something. 

[Kokos Cat]

Below is a mention of Kyron being seen late hour of the morning:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.20
Reply #35

I'm snipping and bumping this back up, because it looks to me like there are questions about the initial timeline, and it looks like most articles/news aren't picking up on the possible change.  This may just throw the 8:45 a.m. as the last sighting of Kyron out the window.  The sighting of Kyron at a later time came from interviews, and from what I understand, the interviews aren't finished yet, so there may be another person that saw Kyron or saw someone/something and the timeline may change.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/95734359.html
School security will be tightened after 7 year old's disappearance
June 6, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. – Interviews with those who were at Friday's science fair at Skyline Elementary School – where a 7-year-old student is believed to have disappeared – may have turned up at least one new piece of information.

In a press conference Sunday afternoon, a Multnomah County Sheriff's Office spokesman now says Kyron Horman was last seen at "a late hour in the morning." This raises questions about the 8:45 a.m. time released by the Sheriff's Office in its press release about this case.
(snipped)

Wonder if he was seen in a white truck in the Fred Meyer parking lot?

I wonder the same thing.  Often wondered if LE was asking folks to come forward with any info of that parking lot - passing off a child or container between vehicles?

Thanks, Puzzler for all this info!

 

[Puzzler]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

There were no cameras at skyline school.  Is this what you are referring to, Rose?
They just installed them before school started this year.  Right after moving Kyron's "Wall of Hope", I believe.

No that I was aware of, I was speaking of searchers, I thought that all the people searching, at least in the beginning were experienced searchers.

IIRC, in the beginning it was not criminal...only a missing child, so who would have known to "protect" a crime scene? They were frantically seeking a lost child who may have wandered off? or? I would say it was not until later(not necessarily too much later) that things started to look "odd" and the sinking feeling start to hit that "it can happen to me"!
  I still wonder why , without written documentation(re doc appt or whatever from herself) why the school did not double check with a quick call? It is never safe to assume...made them look a little a$inine  at the very least!   

Where I live, no one cannot take a child from a school without that person's name being on record with the school and school personnel checking that record and the person's ID before releasing the child.

[Scandi]

If there are about 300 students at Skyline School, wonder just how many people were at that school that morning if you include all the school employees and all the parents?

Here is a statement that analyzes Terri's statement that she emailed to KATU:
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/08/terri-hormans-emails-critical.html

“I said I was going to look at other exhibits - how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic - had to been 300 people running around - no coordination ...”



LOLOLOL  I just had that on tap having posted it elsewhere.  ;}

[Tracygirl]

IMO, Tanner probably  believes he saw Kyron at that time...children that age are (for the most part) honest and forthcoming. But...based on the 3 grandsons(ages 4,7, and 8, almost 9 ) who live in my home(yikes!what is a spare room?       )children at that age cannot be so time specific, not that I have seen anyway. Have to be very careful putting stock in statement of time("yesterday" could be last week to the youngest) . Even the older one is fuzzy on what time things occur..."IDK Nana, maybe a while ago?"

To me this is one of the situations that something (tanners statement) has to be discounted in order for a theory to fit. The working theory of LE has been that Terri is responsible for disappearing Kyron. 

[Nana29]

Below is a mention of Kyron being seen late hour of the morning:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.20
Reply #35

I'm snipping and bumping this back up, because it looks to me like there are questions about the initial timeline, and it looks like most articles/news aren't picking up on the possible change.  This may just throw the 8:45 a.m. as the last sighting of Kyron out the window.  The sighting of Kyron at a later time came from interviews, and from what I understand, the interviews aren't finished yet, so there may be another person that saw Kyron or saw someone/something and the timeline may change.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/95734359.html
School security will be tightened after 7 year old's disappearance
June 6, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. – Interviews with those who were at Friday's science fair at Skyline Elementary School – where a 7-year-old student is believed to have disappeared – may have turned up at least one new piece of information.

In a press conference Sunday afternoon, a Multnomah County Sheriff's Office spokesman now says Kyron Horman was last seen at "a late hour in the morning." This raises questions about the 8:45 a.m. time released by the Sheriff's Office in its press release about this case.
(snipped)

Wonder if he was seen in a white truck in the Fred Meyer parking lot?

OOOO!   I like that line of thought!   

[Kokos Cat]

Below is a mention of Kyron being seen late hour of the morning:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.20
Reply #35

I'm snipping and bumping this back up, because it looks to me like there are questions about the initial timeline, and it looks like most articles/news aren't picking up on the possible change.  This may just throw the 8:45 a.m. as the last sighting of Kyron out the window.  The sighting of Kyron at a later time came from interviews, and from what I understand, the interviews aren't finished yet, so there may be another person that saw Kyron or saw someone/something and the timeline may change.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/95734359.html
School security will be tightened after 7 year old's disappearance
June 6, 2010

PORTLAND, Ore. – Interviews with those who were at Friday's science fair at Skyline Elementary School – where a 7-year-old student is believed to have disappeared – may have turned up at least one new piece of information.

In a press conference Sunday afternoon, a Multnomah County Sheriff's Office spokesman now says Kyron Horman was last seen at "a late hour in the morning." This raises questions about the 8:45 a.m. time released by the Sheriff's Office in its press release about this case.
(snipped)

Wonder if he was seen in a white truck in the Fred Meyer parking lot?

OOOO!   I like that line of thought!   

Dear Klaas,

Are you referring to the sighting of Kyron, later, "looking terrified"? 

Thanks,

K. Cat

[Spodie]

What I wonder is "Did Kyron leave that school alive" which I am assuming...because of the family press conferences and LE's statements...now it seems that LE's wording has changed.

 

Harry Oakes, International K-9 Search and Rescue, has searched all public areas.  As far as I know, no human death scent from the school.  Just from the Horman property, which Kaine will not allow to be searched.

When Kyron left the school, he was still alive.

Please see this thread for details:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8432.200

Respectfully,

K. Cat



 

I remember this...and it still blows my mind...three things...Why did he not let them search his property...his child is missing!! And why didn't Terri allow LE to search the property once Kaine left?  And has Kaine allowed a search on his property since Terri has left?

Because of the animosity between LE and Harry Oakes........I just realized that Tony Young was a K-9 handler...perhaps HIS bias is the reason they won't let Harry's dogs do a search.

http://www.ci.medford.or.us/page.asp?navid=1760

The Medford Police K-9 program began in May of 1992. ...........Oxer and his most recent handler, Officer Tony Young, were an effective team.

[hellokitty]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

There were no cameras at skyline school.  Is this what you are referring to, Rose?
They just installed them before school started this year.  Right after moving Kyron's "Wall of Hope", I believe.

No that I was aware of, I was speaking of searchers, I thought that all the people searching, at least in the beginning were experienced searchers.

IIRC, in the beginning it was not criminal...only a missing child, so who would have known to "protect" a crime scene? They were frantically seeking a lost child who may have wandered off? or? I would say it was not until later(not necessarily too much later) that things started to look "odd" and the sinking feeling start to hit that "it can happen to me"!
  I still wonder why , without written documentation(re doc appt or whatever from herself) why the school did not double check with a quick call? It is never safe to assume...made them look a little a$inine  at the very least!   

Where I live, no one cannot take a child from a school without that person's name being on record with the school and school personnel checking that record and the person's ID before releasing the child.

 

That is a bit of a grey area  (no offense to Grey)

He wasn't actually in school yet as Terri left him at 8:45 walking to his room and she at the other end of the hall.

She left this child alone in the chaotic atmosphere.  The child that had all of these spacing out issues.

whatever.

[Tracygirl]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

There were no cameras at skyline school.  Is this what you are referring to, Rose?
They just installed them before school started this year.  Right after moving Kyron's "Wall of Hope", I believe.

No that I was aware of, I was speaking of searchers, I thought that all the people searching, at least in the beginning were experienced searchers.

IIRC, in the beginning it was not criminal...only a missing child, so who would have known to "protect" a crime scene? They were frantically seeking a lost child who may have wandered off? or? I would say it was not until later(not necessarily too much later) that things started to look "odd" and the sinking feeling start to hit that "it can happen to me"!
  I still wonder why , without written documentation(re doc appt or whatever from herself) why the school did not double check with a quick call? It is never safe to assume...made them look a little a$inine  at the very least!   

Where I live, no one cannot take a child from a school without that person's name being on record with the school and school personnel checking that record and the person's ID before releasing the child.

This is good but I am not sure how many pedo's or kidnappers would go through the office. I am glad this rule is there in most districts but I think it is one of the rules that are there to make people feel better.

Puzzler call your childrens school and ask them what they do with contractors and their subs who work on campus and also what type of screening process there is for Volunteers. These are the biggest threats I think to our childrn at school.