Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND,OR #29 9/18/10 - 9/21/10

[Nana29]

IMO, Tanner probably  believes he saw Kyron at that time...children that age are (for the most part) honest and forthcoming. But...based on the 3 grandsons(ages 4,7, and 8, almost 9 ) who live in my home(yikes!what is a spare room?       )children at that age cannot be so time specific, not that I have seen anyway. Have to be very careful putting stock in statement of time("yesterday" could be last week to the youngest) . Even the older one is fuzzy on what time things occur..."IDK Nana, maybe a while ago?"

To me this is one of the situations that something (tanners statement) has to be discounted in order for a theory to fit. The working theory of LE has been that Terri is responsible for disappearing Kyron. 

 
Thanks Tracygirl, I think that is kind of where I was going...have a horrid habit of not following thru on a thought.     
I believe she is responsible, I think her involvement stretches quite far too...and how many people did she sucker in?

[Puzzler]

If there are about 300 students at Skyline School, wonder just how many people were at that school that morning if you include all the school employees and all the parents?

Here is a statement that analyzes Terri's statement that she emailed to KATU:
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.com/2010/08/terri-hormans-emails-critical.html

“I said I was going to look at other exhibits - how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic - had to been 300 people running around - no coordination ...”



LOLOLOL  I just had that on tap having posted it elsewhere.  ;}

In going back to thread #1 for Kyron (and it's slow going - only on page 4), I've seen a couple  places where news reported that there are 300 students at Skyline.  So, 300 students, plus personnel, plus parents (coming and going) - would it be fair to say 350-450 people?

[Scandi]

IMO, Tanner probably  believes he saw Kyron at that time...children that age are (for the most part) honest and forthcoming. But...based on the 3 grandsons(ages 4,7, and 8, almost 9 ) who live in my home(yikes!what is a spare room?       )children at that age cannot be so time specific, not that I have seen anyway. Have to be very careful putting stock in statement of time("yesterday" could be last week to the youngest) . Even the older one is fuzzy on what time things occur..."IDK Nana, maybe a while ago?"

Hi Nana,  I think there were two school bells that rang every day calling the kids to class, one at 8:35 and the next at 8:45.  I think Tanner might have known what time it was just by those bells. the first meaning you have 10 min to get to class and the next one meaning it is time for class to start.  I think the bells rang the same that day as always even though I don't think class was to start till 10am on the 4th due to the length of the science fair.  Lord knows where I read that but I did.

[Kokos Cat]

What I wonder is "Did Kyron leave that school alive" which I am assuming...because of the family press conferences and LE's statements...now it seems that LE's wording has changed.

 

Harry Oakes, International K-9 Search and Rescue, has searched all public areas.  As far as I know, no human death scent from the school.  Just from the Horman property, which Kaine will not allow to be searched.

When Kyron left the school, he was still alive.

Please see this thread for details:  http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8432.200

Respectfully,

K. Cat



 

I remember this...and it still blows my mind...three things...Why did he not let them search his property...his child is missing!! And why didn't Terri allow LE to search the property once Kaine left?  And has Kaine allowed a search on his property since Terri has left?

Because of the animosity between LE and Harry Oakes........I just realized that Tony Young was a K-9 handler...perhaps HIS bias is the reason they won't let Harry's dogs do a search.

http://www.ci.medford.or.us/page.asp?navid=1760

The Medford Police K-9 program began in May of 1992. ...........Oxer and his most recent handler, Officer Tony Young, were an effective team.

Dear Spodie,

   This would explain SO MUCH, thanks!

Sincerely,

K. Cat

[Kokos Cat]

IMO, Tanner probably  believes he saw Kyron at that time...children that age are (for the most part) honest and forthcoming. But...based on the 3 grandsons(ages 4,7, and 8, almost 9 ) who live in my home(yikes!what is a spare room?       )children at that age cannot be so time specific, not that I have seen anyway. Have to be very careful putting stock in statement of time("yesterday" could be last week to the youngest) . Even the older one is fuzzy on what time things occur..."IDK Nana, maybe a while ago?"

To me this is one of the situations that something (tanners statement) has to be discounted in order for a theory to fit. The working theory of LE has been that Terri is responsible for disappearing Kyron. 

 
Thanks Tracygirl, I think that is kind of where I was going...have a horrid habit of not following thru on a thought.     
I believe she is responsible, I think her involvement stretches quite far too...and how many people did she sucker in?

QUESTION:  What is the advantage to looking in the same place OVER and OVER again, when it has produced no results? 

Is it true that if nothing else, we need to find Kyron to have a CASE at all.  We have gotten nothing, gone nowhere by looking at Terri, as far as Kyron's recovery goes, IMO.  And, no matter what her degree of guilt or innocence or involvement in this case SHE IS NOT GOING TO TALK NOW.

PERIOD.

WHERE THE HELL IS KYRON?!?

[Puzzler]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

There were no cameras at skyline school.  Is this what you are referring to, Rose?
They just installed them before school started this year.  Right after moving Kyron's "Wall of Hope", I believe.

No that I was aware of, I was speaking of searchers, I thought that all the people searching, at least in the beginning were experienced searchers.

IIRC, in the beginning it was not criminal...only a missing child, so who would have known to "protect" a crime scene? They were frantically seeking a lost child who may have wandered off? or? I would say it was not until later(not necessarily too much later) that things started to look "odd" and the sinking feeling start to hit that "it can happen to me"!
  I still wonder why , without written documentation(re doc appt or whatever from herself) why the school did not double check with a quick call? It is never safe to assume...made them look a little a$inine  at the very least!   

Where I live, no one cannot take a child from a school without that person's name being on record with the school and school personnel checking that record and the person's ID before releasing the child.

This is good but I am not sure how many pedo's or kidnappers would go through the office. I am glad this rule is there in most districts but I think it is one of the rules that are there to make people feel better.

Puzzler call your childrens school and ask them what they do with contractors and their subs who work on campus and also what type of screening process there is for Volunteers. These are the biggest threats I think to our childrn at school.

I see your point.  And your pointing out that "anybody" could have taken Kyron.  Tha't exactly what I'm thinking...just getting to it in a round-about way.  There were hundreds of people in the school that morning...maybe even as much as a 100 additional people over the average day.

Also, I see the point that is a fine-line of Terri saying she said good-bye to Kyron as he's walking to his class just before the bell.  I thought, though, that particular morning, they didn't have roll call until 10:00 a.m.  Anyone else recall that?

[Nana29]

Hi Spodie   

I remember about the bells, I think tho, that kids time line is not totally accurate either. IE, 5 minutes could have felt like 15...or, he may have thought both bells had already gone of , when in reality, only 1 had?  Not saying this was the case, just in my observations of the boys(and events and questioning time line here) it is a distinct possibility.
I wish this was more cut and dried.( Don't we all and wish we had been a monkey in the corner that day!) I get so sick to my stomach sometimes, I cannot even imagine how his parents feel.

[Scandi]

LE has said several times that Terri was the last person to see Kyron.  That means that Tanner did not see Kyron after Terrri saw him.

I wonder if it is true she was seen hiding in the stairwell at that time and LE already knew this when they made that statement?   

[Puzzler]

LE has said several times that Terri was the last person to see Kyron.  That means that Tanner did not see Kyron after Terrri saw him.

I wonder if it is true she was seen hiding in the stairwell at that time and LE already knew this when they made that statement?   

The word "hiding" bothers me; how can you be hiding when folks can see you? 

[Scandi]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

There were no cameras at skyline school.  Is this what you are referring to, Rose?
They just installed them before school started this year.  Right after moving Kyron's "Wall of Hope", I believe.

No that I was aware of, I was speaking of searchers, I thought that all the people searching, at least in the beginning were experienced searchers.

IIRC, in the beginning it was not criminal...only a missing child, so who would have known to "protect" a crime scene? They were frantically seeking a lost child who may have wandered off? or? I would say it was not until later(not necessarily too much later) that things started to look "odd" and the sinking feeling start to hit that "it can happen to me"!
  I still wonder why , without written documentation(re doc appt or whatever from herself) why the school did not double check with a quick call? It is never safe to assume...made them look a little a$inine  at the very least!   

Where I live, no one cannot take a child from a school without that person's name being on record with the school and school personnel checking that record and the person's ID before releasing the child.

This is good but I am not sure how many pedo's or kidnappers would go through the office. I am glad this rule is there in most districts but I think it is one of the rules that are there to make people feel better.

Puzzler call your childrens school and ask them what they do with contractors and their subs who work on campus and also what type of screening process there is for Volunteers. These are the biggest threats I think to our childrn at school.

I see your point.  And your pointing out that "anybody" could have taken Kyron.  Tha't exactly what I'm thinking...just getting to it in a round-about way.  There were hundreds of people in the school that morning...maybe even as much as a 100 additional people over the average day.

Also, I see the point that is a fine-line of Terri saying she said good-bye to Kyron as he's walking to his class just before the bell.  I thought, though, that particular morning, they didn't have roll call until 10:00 a.m.  Anyone else recall that?

  That is what I read too, 10am that morning for class to start. 

I remember I researched that when KOIN made the video with Tanner.  Kohr Harman, the reporter. gave the time of Tanner passing Kyron in the hallway as 9:45, and since Tanner said he saw Terri leave and Kyron wasn't with her, that the time was a mistake.  We already had a link that Terri had left at 9am from the Sheriff.

[Scandi]

LE has said several times that Terri was the last person to see Kyron.  That means that Tanner did not see Kyron after Terrri saw him.

I wonder if it is true she was seen hiding in the stairwell at that time and LE already knew this when they made that statement?   

The word "hiding" bothers me; how can you be hiding when folks can see you? 

We don't even know if that happened or who said it.  It was written in a comment from an article.  But to your question, maybe trying to be transparent would be better, eh?  lol

[Spodie]

Hi Spodie   

I remember about the bells, I think tho, that kids time line is not totally accurate either. IE, 5 minutes could have felt like 15...or, he may have thought both bells had already gone of , when in reality, only 1 had?  Not saying this was the case, just in my observations of the boys(and events and questioning time line here) it is a distinct possibility.
I wish this was more cut and dried.( Don't we all and wish we had been a monkey in the corner that day!) I get so sick to my stomach sometimes, I cannot even imagine how his parents feel.

Hi Nana29......Monkey Hugs!

I remember this too and it scratches at my mind....cuz I soooo want to believe that he did see
Kyron...the timeline is so tight for the morning. I wish I could walk inside the school to get a real sense of things,,how long it takes to walk from one spot to the other......

[Puzzler]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.80
Reply #97


http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Criminal-profiler-analyzes-Kyron-case-95921749.html

PORTLAND -- An expert criminal profiler talked to KGW about his theories on what happened to Kyron Horman.

Dr. Ron Turco said something about this case does not add up. Turco does not believe that Kyron walked away with a stranger. He believes that the young boy was smart enough to know not to leave school with a stranger, so he must have left with someone he knew - possibly a family member or a family friend, or someone else that he trusted.

Dr. Turco also theorized that if Kyron was kidnapped, it could have been by someone familiar who holds a vendetta against the Horman family.

If he were on the case, Turco said that he would develop a friendship with the family and friends and a rapport with them so he could get more information in a very gentle way that could eventually lead to a clue in Kyron's disappearance.

The Horman family seems like a very religious family. Maybe this is the vendetta?
Yes, understanding the mind of a 2nd grader is important here. I believe that Kyron left w/ a family member or family 'friend'. He would likely ask permission from a teacher to leave the building, once inside for any other person. An abduction such as this took real inside knowledge. Anything could have gone wrong with some outsider planning this. How would they know the child's reactions so well? How would they know they would not be detected? How would they know the school would not call to confirm his absence? If the perp was inside the school building and someone saw Kyron talking to and walking with a person who was not his parent, they may be suspicious, or at least take notice so I don't believe that happened. That would be such a dumb move for a perp, and a sure-fire way of planning to getting caught. With the FBI getting on this case so quickly, I believe CARD has a very good idea of what happened. Does anyone know if any search was done in Wallowa County? 
Abducted from inside his school after the 2nd bell rang on his way to his classroom and just prior to attendence being taken?

[Puzzler]

LE has said several times that Terri was the last person to see Kyron.  That means that Tanner did not see Kyron after Terrri saw him.

I wonder if it is true she was seen hiding in the stairwell at that time and LE already knew this when they made that statement?   

The word "hiding" bothers me; how can you be hiding when folks can see you? 

We don't even know if that happened or who said it.  It was written in a comment from an article.  But to your question, maybe trying to be transparent would be better, eh?  lol

 

[Puzzler]

See bolded area below.  Majority of interviews of the students, parents and staff completed by June 9.  That’s when everything would have been fresh in everyone’s mind.  Fast-forward to today and it doesn’t appear that anyone knew anything of great importance such as seeing who took Kyron away.   How sad.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.100
Reply #100

Search for missing second-grader enters 5th dayBy Gabriel Falcon, CNN
June 9, 2010 3:17 a.m. EDT
(snipped) "We're not prepared to call it a criminal investigation at this point," Captain Jason Gates of the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office told reporters Tuesday, "But we are certainly prepared to call it a missing endangered child investigation."

He also narrowed the scope of the incident.

"What I can tell you is that we have no reason to believe that this is anything other than an isolated case," Gates said.

Kyron was reported missing by his stepmother Friday afternoon after he did not return home from school, authorities said.

According to investigators, Kyron's stepmother said she last saw him Friday morning walking down a hallway towards his second-grade classroom at Skyline Elementary School.

The school was holding a science fair at the time, officials said.

"We can tell you that we have completed 99 percent of the interviews with the children at Skyline Elementary School," Gates said. "We've also completed the majority of interviews with the staff and parents at Skyline." (snipped)

[Puzzler]

See bolded area below.  Majority of interviews of the students, parents and staff completed by June 9.  That’s when everything would have been fresh in everyone’s mind.  Fast-forward to today and it doesn’t appear that anyone knew anything of great importance such as seeing who took Kyron away.   How sad.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.100
Reply #100

Search for missing second-grader enters 5th dayBy Gabriel Falcon, CNN
June 9, 2010 3:17 a.m. EDT
(snipped) "We're not prepared to call it a criminal investigation at this point," Captain Jason Gates of the Multnomah County Sheriff's Office told reporters Tuesday, "But we are certainly prepared to call it a missing endangered child investigation."

He also narrowed the scope of the incident.

"What I can tell you is that we have no reason to believe that this is anything other than an isolated case," Gates said.

Kyron was reported missing by his stepmother Friday afternoon after he did not return home from school, authorities said.

According to investigators, Kyron's stepmother said she last saw him Friday morning walking down a hallway towards his second-grade classroom at Skyline Elementary School.

The school was holding a science fair at the time, officials said.

"We can tell you that we have completed 99 percent of the interviews with the children at Skyline Elementary School," Gates said. "We've also completed the majority of interviews with the staff and parents at Skyline." (snipped)

Sorry...it appears that "no one" knew anything...

[Tracygirl]

IMO, Tanner probably  believes he saw Kyron at that time...children that age are (for the most part) honest and forthcoming. But...based on the 3 grandsons(ages 4,7, and 8, almost 9 ) who live in my home(yikes!what is a spare room?       )children at that age cannot be so time specific, not that I have seen anyway. Have to be very careful putting stock in statement of time("yesterday" could be last week to the youngest) . Even the older one is fuzzy on what time things occur..."IDK Nana, maybe a while ago?"

To me this is one of the situations that something (tanners statement) has to be discounted in order for a theory to fit. The working theory of LE has been that Terri is responsible for disappearing Kyron. 

 
Thanks Tracygirl, I think that is kind of where I was going...have a horrid habit of not following thru on a thought.     
I believe she is responsible, I think her involvement stretches quite far too...and how many people did she sucker in?

I should have included I don't discount Tanners statement. I was refering to LE having to discount it because it didn't go with their theory.

[fatcatlurker]

People have been wondering about Terri and why she is not fighting to see her daughter.  This is a part of their reasoning that Terri is cold hearted, etc...

In my opinion- ta dah!, Terri is in a very bad spot.  She has received death threats, according to her attorney, and everywhere she goes, she's pretty much bombarded by the press and sometimes, there's like a mob following her.  How can she guarantee the safety of her daughter? 

If it were me, I would put my own maternal needs aside, as I would at least know my daughter was safe.

She could ask for supervised visitation in a safe spot, but she has chosen not to.

Do we know for sure that Terri has not asked for supervised visitation?  I've not read anything on this before now.  Thanks.

 

She did not respond to the RO. Therefore, as I understand it, it is in effect for a year.

It appears that she has not asked for supervised visitation as there is no reason that she would not get it.

Convicted people get visitation.  Children even visit parents in prison.

Hmmm.... interesting.

Kitty, How do we know she did not respond to the restraining order? 

Thanks,

K. Cat

I think she only had like 5 days or two weeks to respond..but she never did....interesting.!

Of course she did have time for sexting MC at this point.  Starts to paint a clear picture of her priorities.

I know you are other topics but catching up here...running fast.

Houze's response to the RO on behalf of Terri Horman.
http://www.kptv.com/download/2010/0712/24228332.pdf

pdf file cannot copy and paste but basically says she will not be contesting anything pertaining to the RO?

[Tracygirl]

I am confused also, I thought they only used trained searchers in the beginning, and come to think of it, I don't remember any crime tape being up at the school, and I guess that is because there wasn't which is odd. Or maybe we didn't see the tape.

There were no cameras at skyline school.  Is this what you are referring to, Rose?
They just installed them before school started this year.  Right after moving Kyron's "Wall of Hope", I believe.

No that I was aware of, I was speaking of searchers, I thought that all the people searching, at least in the beginning were experienced searchers.

IIRC, in the beginning it was not criminal...only a missing child, so who would have known to "protect" a crime scene? They were frantically seeking a lost child who may have wandered off? or? I would say it was not until later(not necessarily too much later) that things started to look "odd" and the sinking feeling start to hit that "it can happen to me"!
  I still wonder why , without written documentation(re doc appt or whatever from herself) why the school did not double check with a quick call? It is never safe to assume...made them look a little a$inine  at the very least!   

Where I live, no one cannot take a child from a school without that person's name being on record with the school and school personnel checking that record and the person's ID before releasing the child.

This is good but I am not sure how many pedo's or kidnappers would go through the office. I am glad this rule is there in most districts but I think it is one of the rules that are there to make people feel better.

Puzzler call your childrens school and ask them what they do with contractors and their subs who work on campus and also what type of screening process there is for Volunteers. These are the biggest threats I think to our childrn at school.

I see your point.  And your pointing out that "anybody" could have taken Kyron.  Tha't exactly what I'm thinking...just getting to it in a round-about way.  There were hundreds of people in the school that morning...maybe even as much as a 100 additional people over the average day.

Also, I see the point that is a fine-line of Terri saying she said good-bye to Kyron as he's walking to his class just before the bell.  I thought, though, that particular morning, they didn't have roll call until 10:00 a.m.  Anyone else recall that?

What I read and it makes sense because of school liability reasons. The kids were to report to their classrooms to be split up into groups and tour the fair in their group. At 10, when the fair was over the kids all go back to their classrooms and at that time roll was taken, at least in Kyrons class it was taken at 10. First mistake of the teacher btw, she should have done roll call at 8:45.

[Deenie]

  Good Evening Monkeys

Everyone has been so busy. I tried to lurk during the day ... me had to clean me house
I don't want to beat any dead horses either.. but this May 2nd 2010 "clean up inside the school /landscape the outside" day held at Skyline ..is bugging me big time.

http://srnpdx.org/newsline-august-21-2010

I posted on Blinks site to see what her opinion is. If she has heard anything that came from this day. Because it was exactly 4 wks to the date that Kyron went missing.

125 + people were on the Grounds of Skyline and Inside the school. Providing handy man services, landscaping and everything in between.

With LE chasing and tracing TH's computer activity, her cell phones, her everything ..somehow they came up with the knowledge of the Landscaper and the MFH plot. Was June 26th that the sting went down at the Horman residence.
It has been said that Terri had hired this landscaper months ago, without Kaines knowledge.
It has been said that Terri had been plotting and planning and Fishing for a Dicey enough individual ( who had nothing to lose) to carry it out... to off Kaine. Possibly she started planning this in 2009.
** Now what if "IF" Terri approached too many of these characters. That she felt she could pull this off. She thought she had an offer that one of these sleazes could not refuse. In the interim of her trolling for the " guy/ppl " for the job ..word got around. Hey, there is this Ignorant Red Head Wife that want's her Hubs offed. She has money. She lives in a nice house. She said this, she has this offer.. Kaine is not even a thought now by these sleazes. Its lets take advantage of HER. Let's play this out.. " all of these guys" networking together .. because they Feel she is now a Patsy. They start Tag Teaming her. They know they are in charge. What is she going to do .. Go run to her Husband and tell him? Or run to the police? She CANT.  Because She opened this Door and allowed these guys in.. with her scheme to off Kaine.  God knows what she offered them to Kill Kaine, let alone when the Mud got too deep ..what she offered them to make them go away.

Word is out, she is now the " hunted" Its kinda like creating a bigger bounty in the end. That they began to black mail her..and follow her around. Taking notes of what she was doing on her daily schedules. Casing Kyron's School. They know if she squawks It's their hides. She knows if she Squawks its Hers. Turns into Russian Roulette. ( I think other things were involved at the same time/do no know what  though)
Terri is scared. Possibly at one time even confiding in Dede. Who would have not known what the Hell was going on..but she got involved out of the shear fear Terri was in...after Terri confessed to her tid bits of info..more than likely not the real story. But enough to make Dede come running. 

The day of May 2nd would have been a perfect opportunity for them to go in as " Help". Maybe not even show themselves as Landscapers.. but they worked inside the school. Painting or whatever .. spending the day scoping out and making plans. Terri may or may not have even been aware if they " Entered" Skyline that day. If she was not there. How would she know. They would have fit in like everyone else .. I just want to help out for a good cause.. OK grab a paint brush Welcome ..the more the merrier. Them thinking " this could not be better" creating a perfect storm. ( Almost like Skyline Terrorists and Kyron was the focus).
Skipping ahead to June 4th. She may have some threats delivered to her within the days leading up ..and yet she didn't know what was going down .. But she knew she was in deep. Something happened that day when she was " Driving around Aimlessly" after she dropped Kyron off at school. She may have tried to do a Drop of Cash? Or ??? or attempt to make these " people" happy ..to go away. That is why she was so Rattled and Not able to concentrate on Kyron's Fair or Talent show.. She then went Home. She thought this is the safest place for " ME" ... and Kiara.
When Kyron didn't get off that BUS ...  she was stunned.
Providing the Face she offered in the first presser to the public. OH GAWD I am the Reason that Kyron is Gone, But I didn't know .. I didn't Know. But she Did know She allowed these People into her private world. I am guessing these " People" she dealt with have been Tagging her for almost a year .. when she opened Pandora's box. That is why she degraded in her outward appearance etc.. She never knew who was watching or if they were going to do something.. X marks the Spot. 
That is why she bout pooped square squirrels when they approached the house on June 26th. It was Personal to Her and she knew she had everything to lose.. Possibly her Daughter/her life or her own Life..  she called 911. She knew they already Took Kyron .. What were they going to do to her Daughter or Terri herself. 
 
IF she can exaggerate to Michael Cook she paid 350,000 to her Atty for a retainer. How Much Money did she exaggerate Kaine was Worth Alive? That he may pay a ransom ..for his Son. jmo