Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND,OR #29 9/18/10 - 9/21/10

[Puzzler]

Puzzler !!!

Your adding makes sense ..that's why I so wanted you to read my words ..
What you just Said is ALL GOOD. It's making my brain feel confident we are on the right track
 Anyone please  " put their own two cent's in" ...that's how we Monkey's roll. Right ON.
Whatever it takes, we can not do it unless we are all focused on one thing and that Is Finding Kyron.

 

All these people wanting to bring themselves in ..to defend the Adults
I say to them 
You know why I say that .. GOD Forbid Kyron was their SON.
 

 

Keep on 

[Shell]

Re school starting at 10:00. 

I do not believe that for one second.  The school buses would have come at the same tie as they always do.

Consequently, the children would go to their classrooms. 

I would think after the children were in their classrooms, they would be divided into broups to tour the fair.  Not randomly as they arrived at random times.  That would be so silly as it defies any logic whatsoever.

This is not the first year of the science fair, nor the first school activity ever, so I cannot imagine that there was not thought and organization that went into it.

I doubt that there were that many parents there.  After all, people do have to work. 

Here is what I can't figure out. What time was "set up time" for the students to put out their projects and what were they to do after they were set up? All those projects set up around Kyron...I am speaking of the photo TH posted of him in front of his project) and where were those kids? And the parents? Was he supposed to set up and report to his classroom? I guess I am wanting to know the schools plan for that morning to get a better idea of the situation.

I think they had to set up the day before.  Then school opened early at 8:00 a.m. Friday for parents to be able to come in and see the exhibits; 8:35 first bell; 8:45 final bell - report to your room and get divided up into small groups (I believe of 6 in a group) and then chaperone's would take their small group around to look at all the exhibits. Then roll call in class at 10:00 a.m. that particular day.

Thanks Puzzler. That explains why it was all set up and very few people were there. I initially thought the children were running around until 10. Your version makes more sense.

[Scatty]

Deenie, was it you who asked me to throw you a bone re: what my hairdresser said?  LOL  She just called me back as I had put in a call to her.  First, I told her about Scared Monkeys and hope she joins.

Anyhoo, she couldn't remember where she saw the photos but did say she was Googling Images and Red Squirrel when she found them.  It was months ago when she did this.

What she said about them was not what I expected.  She said it wasn't like they were posed photos and there weren't other people in them.  But there were 'things' - maybe she means props or veils or something.  And she said looking at Terri gave her the distinctly DARK feeling.  Like there was murder on her mind.

I'm going to send her the weird music videos and see her on Fri.  She said if she finds the photos she'll let me know.  I'll also email her the link to SM as she would fit right in here.

Was it us talking about Red Hair Dye?? that it made you think of Me. I love Squirrels .. I have tons of them in my yard. I have very few Red Squirrels if any now though .. they are pretty much extinct .. most my squirrels are either almost dark bittersweet choc brown or a latte color with lots of gray .. which is strange. I recall as a child ( I was raised in the city I live in now, was missing from it for over 35 yrs) we Only had red squirrels .. RED Ruddy orangey Squirrels .. I had ONE that lived in my backyard almost two years ago. He was Old/Sr Fat and Hungry...all the time. He would sit at my back door. I nicknamed him Sanford. After Redd Foxx Sanford and Son. ( Who I adored, Fred Sanford).  I must have said something to you. Possibly I said " throw me a bone" ... I want you or Someone to please go back a few pages and read my post on Terri " Red Squirrel and her Nuts she Collected" that more than likely caused Kyron to be taken .. if you would please. I would love someone's opinion on my brain thoughts .. like we find here. Anything is possible and what is said just may trigger to another Monkey to leads ..that fit with their own discovery's. Thank You Scandi
xoxoxo Back at You. 

 

I hate red squirrels.  Why?  Because they eat through the siding in your house and go into the walls.  Then they chew your wiring.

If your house burns down because a squirrel chewed your wiring, insurance will not pay.

We have red squirrels here, but my hubby is taking care of them.

I'd be glad to mail you the ones that we catch. 

Noooooooooo!!!!

[Puzzler]

Another scenario is what if someone at the school was "grooming" Kyron?

Sheriff Staton has said several things which could indicate this was something that originated at the school.  (We would think about this afterwards, we would be surprised, they know things they wish they didn't know, there could be other cases and that other government agencies would need to be notified)

Terri noticed strange behavoir of Kyron, about 2 weeks prior to his disappearance (?).  Someone at the school may have been drugging him over a period of time.

Since Terri spent the most time with Kyron, she would be the one to notice the changes.  Desiree wouldn't see these changes as they would have occured during the school week when Kyron was at Kaine's house.  Kaine, would have about the same reaction- as he was not a witness to this odd behaviour, he was at work.

good thinking, even if it was th drugging him it wouldnt show at desirees on the weekends, or in the evenings.

MK - that's a thought worth considering...someone at the school grooming Kyron...wouldn't be a stranger, would know all the areas in the school where Kyron could be hidden, wouldn't think anything of it if that person were there when everyone else left, could get Kyron out of the school in plenty of time before LE arrived that evening.

[Deenie]

Puzzler now you really got my brain thinking

What IF ... LE created the LS story for the press. That they have knowledge of Terri being indulged into a world of " other" yet the only way they would " Allow it " to be leaked to the Press .. because it would eventually come out ..that LE created a sting to trap Terri ..
The MFH plot could have been provided by LE. For the public to have something to chew on.
So they leaked it the the Press that it was a MFH with so said Landscaper - yet it really is about " Other" such as drugs, sex and not rock and roll but of " gardening" and um transporting .. you catch my meaning. 
And add my words of ..Her being Hunted /black mailed and even watched without her being able to say a word... Her scared out of her mind, with no one to turn too.
Again why she so fell apart in appearance within the last 12 months .. Stress. She knew she was a walking target and a witness .. prior to Kyron missing. ??? Her world was falling apart right before her eyes .. and yet she could not tell a soul ??
Any one feel free to jump aboard or even say NO .. I don't care.. this is not about me. Its about Kyron. 

[Scatty]

Some questions LE knows the answers to but aren't telling:

1. Did the teacher's assistant corroborate Tanner's tale about her convo with Ms Porter?
2. Did the doctor say if Terri had mentioned Kyron's mini seizure's? Did she make an appointment for Kyron. If so, when did she make it and for what day and time?
3. Did Terri ever give the school nurse meds for Kyron to take?
4. Did a child come forward with a tale of Terri hiding somewhere in the school?
5. Is Rudy Sanchez definitely the landscaper Terri hired and does he have an alibi on 6/4?
6. What was on Terri's hard drive?

And much more but my brain's tapped out right now.

[ISpy]

LE has said several times that Terri was the last person to see Kyron.  That means that Tanner did not see Kyron after Terrri saw him.

I wonder if it is true she was seen hiding in the stairwell at that time and LE already knew this when they made that statement?   

The word "hiding" bothers me; how can you be hiding when folks can see you? 

Puzzler- If this is true, something about Terri's body language/position suggested "hiding" to the child.  Children know what hiding, trying not to be seen looks like as they hide during play and sometimes when they don't want to do something (clean their room, do their homework, etc.).  He/she did not necessarily mean Terri was literally hidden, perhaps just lurking in the shadow of the stairwell/slightly out of view (or mostly hidden from view)/sort of lurking on the stairs.  I take it to mean Terri was somewhat still/quiet and somewhat out of view of the corridor, as opposed to the hustle and bustle of the science fair perhaps.  Just my 2 cents.

[Puzzler]

Puzzler now you really got my brain thinking

What IF ... LE created the LS story for the press. That they have knowledge of Terri being indulged into a world of " other" yet the only way they would " Allow it " to be leaked to the Press .. because it would eventually come out ..that LE created a sting to trap Terri ..
The MFH plot could have been provided by LE. For the public to have something to chew on.
So they leaked it the the Press that it was a MFH with so said Landscaper - yet it really is about " Other" such as drugs, sex and not rock and roll but of " gardening" and um transporting .. you catch my meaning. 
And add my words of ..Her being Hunted /black mailed and even watched without her being able to say a word... Her scared out of her mind, with no one to turn too.
Again why she so fell apart in appearance within the last 12 months .. Stress. She knew she was a walking target and a witness .. prior to Kyron missing. ??? Her world was falling apart right before her eyes .. and yet she could not tell a soul ??
Any one feel free to jump aboard or even say NO .. I don't care.. this is not about me. Its about Kyron. 

I’m thinking the MFH was LS’s story.  He was furious at Terri in May because she called the 911 on him.  Why she called 911, I don’t know.  But he was furious because he’s in the country illegally and any reason for 911 to appear in his face in not good for him.  So, when LE tracked down the LS through Terri’s phone records, here was the police in his face again and all because of her.  I’m thinking he told LE the MFH story because it would get her in big trouble, whether it could be proved or not – it would be he said/she said and the story would be huge trouble for a stepmom who’s stepson has gone missing after she left him at school. 

So, I don’t think LE concocted the MFH story, but rather “used” the story.  I would hate to think that LE concocted the story and then told Kaine, resulting in a filing for divorce because of it. 

Maybe it’s as simple as a “sex thing” – rumor is that he made unwanted sexual advances toward Terri.  I don’t know.  But she was upset enough about “something” to call 911 and I don’t think she would have done that if that call would have gotten her into trouble.

LS was furious about the call – he very well could have plotted some type of revenge – not just because of the call – but the call and “whatever” they were arguing over that caused the call…and then…the trouble he got into with his wife.  You know…what someone would do if they had a “hot-headed” type personality.

[Puzzler]

Some questions LE knows the answers to but aren't telling:

1. Did the teacher's assistant corroborate Tanner's tale about her convo with Ms Porter?
2. Did the doctor say if Terri had mentioned Kyron's mini seizure's? Did she make an appointment for Kyron. If so, when did she make it and for what day and time?
3. Did Terri ever give the school nurse meds for Kyron to take?
4. Did a child come forward with a tale of Terri hiding somewhere in the school?
5. Is Rudy Sanchez definitely the landscaper Terri hired and does he have an alibi on 6/4?
6. What was on Terri's hard drive?

And much more but my brain's tapped out right now.

Scatty, those are all good questions; ones I wish we knew the answers to as well.

[Puzzler]

LE has said several times that Terri was the last person to see Kyron.  That means that Tanner did not see Kyron after Terrri saw him.

I wonder if it is true she was seen hiding in the stairwell at that time and LE already knew this when they made that statement?   

The word "hiding" bothers me; how can you be hiding when folks can see you? 

Puzzler- If this is true, something about Terri's body language/position suggested "hiding" to the child.  Children know what hiding, trying not to be seen looks like as they hide during play and sometimes when they don't want to do something (clean their room, do their homework, etc.).  He/she did not necessarily mean Terri was literally hidden, perhaps just lurking in the shadow of the stairwell/slightly out of view (or mostly hidden from view)/sort of lurking on the stairs.  I take it to mean Terri was somewhat still/quiet and somewhat out of view of the corridor, as opposed to the hustle and bustle of the science fair perhaps.  Just my 2 cents.

ISpy - point taken. 

I've even wondered what stairwell means for Skyline - the kind where you go down the stairs in an area enclosing the steps - or the kind where you go down a flight of stairs and the underside is exposed leaving that area open. 

The latter is what I was thinking about - open - and maybe Terri has just stepped out of the way to avoid someone walking by and by stepping back it appeared to be hiding.

[ISpy]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.80
Reply #97


http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Criminal-profiler-analyzes-Kyron-case-95921749.html

PORTLAND -- An expert criminal profiler talked to KGW about his theories on what happened to Kyron Horman.

Dr. Ron Turco said something about this case does not add up. Turco does not believe that Kyron walked away with a stranger. He believes that the young boy was smart enough to know not to leave school with a stranger, so he must have left with someone he knew - possibly a family member or a family friend, or someone else that he trusted.

Dr. Turco also theorized that if Kyron was kidnapped, it could have been by someone familiar who holds a vendetta against the Horman family.

If he were on the case, Turco said that he would develop a friendship with the family and friends and a rapport with them so he could get more information in a very gentle way that could eventually lead to a clue in Kyron's disappearance.

The Horman family seems like a very religious family. Maybe this is the vendetta?
Yes, understanding the mind of a 2nd grader is important here. I believe that Kyron left w/ a family member or family 'friend'. He would likely ask permission from a teacher to leave the building, once inside for any other person. An abduction such as this took real inside knowledge. Anything could have gone wrong with some outsider planning this. How would they know the child's reactions so well? How would they know they would not be detected? How would they know the school would not call to confirm his absence? If the perp was inside the school building and someone saw Kyron talking to and walking with a person who was not his parent, they may be suspicious, or at least take notice so I don't believe that happened. That would be such a dumb move for a perp, and a sure-fire way of planning to getting caught. With the FBI getting on this case so quickly, I believe CARD has a very good idea of what happened. Does anyone know if any search was done in Wallowa County? 
Abducted from inside his school after the 2nd bell rang on his way to his classroom and just prior to attendence being taken?

Evening, everyone!
Puzzler- Thank you for this article!  Reading over this, how would a perp know when roll call was going to be taken, that he/she knew to take Kyron before roll call?  Someone knew roll call wasn't going to happen at the regularly scheduled time.  Someone knew what the window would be between exhibit set-up and roll call.  A landscaper or a turf maintenance person wouldn't know that...neither would a RSO off the street.  However, a parent who's "scheduled" a doctor appointment would.  A parent volunteering regularly in Kyron's class, who's developed a rapport with his teacher, asking seemingly innocent questions about the Science Fair set-up and schedule would.  Dr. Turco is spot on here.  A perp is not going to chance a scene with 300+ people milling around the school and parking lot.  This was someone Kyron knew or he was removed in some sort of container.  JMO

[Shell]

Some questions LE knows the answers to but aren't telling:

1. Did the teacher's assistant corroborate Tanner's tale about her convo with Ms Porter?
2. Did the doctor say if Terri had mentioned Kyron's mini seizure's? Did she make an appointment for Kyron. If so, when did she make it and for what day and time?
3. Did Terri ever give the school nurse meds for Kyron to take?
4. Did a child come forward with a tale of Terri hiding somewhere in the school?
5. Is Rudy Sanchez definitely the landscaper Terri hired and does he have an alibi on 6/4?
6. What was on Terri's hard drive?

And much more but my brain's tapped out right now.

Well Scatty, this is a very good start 

[Shell]

I tend to believe TH did try to negotiate a MFH. My opinion, for what it is worth 

[Puzzler]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.80
Reply #97


http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Criminal-profiler-analyzes-Kyron-case-95921749.html

PORTLAND -- An expert criminal profiler talked to KGW about his theories on what happened to Kyron Horman.

Dr. Ron Turco said something about this case does not add up. Turco does not believe that Kyron walked away with a stranger. He believes that the young boy was smart enough to know not to leave school with a stranger, so he must have left with someone he knew - possibly a family member or a family friend, or someone else that he trusted.

Dr. Turco also theorized that if Kyron was kidnapped, it could have been by someone familiar who holds a vendetta against the Horman family.

If he were on the case, Turco said that he would develop a friendship with the family and friends and a rapport with them so he could get more information in a very gentle way that could eventually lead to a clue in Kyron's disappearance.

The Horman family seems like a very religious family. Maybe this is the vendetta?
Yes, understanding the mind of a 2nd grader is important here. I believe that Kyron left w/ a family member or family 'friend'. He would likely ask permission from a teacher to leave the building, once inside for any other person. An abduction such as this took real inside knowledge. Anything could have gone wrong with some outsider planning this. How would they know the child's reactions so well? How would they know they would not be detected? How would they know the school would not call to confirm his absence? If the perp was inside the school building and someone saw Kyron talking to and walking with a person who was not his parent, they may be suspicious, or at least take notice so I don't believe that happened. That would be such a dumb move for a perp, and a sure-fire way of planning to getting caught. With the FBI getting on this case so quickly, I believe CARD has a very good idea of what happened. Does anyone know if any search was done in Wallowa County? 
Abducted from inside his school after the 2nd bell rang on his way to his classroom and just prior to attendence being taken?

Evening, everyone!
Puzzler- Thank you for this article!  Reading over this, how would a perp know when roll call was going to be taken, that he/she knew to take Kyron before roll call?  Someone knew roll call wasn't going to happen at the regularly scheduled time.  Someone knew what the window would be between exhibit set-up and roll call.  A landscaper or a turf maintenance person wouldn't know that...neither would a RSO off the street.  However, a parent who's "scheduled" a doctor appointment would.  A parent volunteering regularly in Kyron's class, who's developed a rapport with his teacher, asking seemingly innocent questions about the Science Fair set-up and schedule would.  Dr. Turco is spot on here.  A perp is not going to chance a scene with 300+ people milling around the school and parking lot.  This was someone Kyron knew or he was removed in some sort of container.  JMO

Staff would know roll call time and potentially a lot of the parents, too.   A "container" haunts my thoughts because Ky only weights 50lbs.  There are many different kinds of containers...a lot that no one would think anything about:  plastic trash bags, large paper lawn bags, gym bags, to name a few.

[Shell]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.80
Reply #97


http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Criminal-profiler-analyzes-Kyron-case-95921749.html

PORTLAND -- An expert criminal profiler talked to KGW about his theories on what happened to Kyron Horman.

Dr. Ron Turco said something about this case does not add up. Turco does not believe that Kyron walked away with a stranger. He believes that the young boy was smart enough to know not to leave school with a stranger, so he must have left with someone he knew - possibly a family member or a family friend, or someone else that he trusted.

Dr. Turco also theorized that if Kyron was kidnapped, it could have been by someone familiar who holds a vendetta against the Horman family.

If he were on the case, Turco said that he would develop a friendship with the family and friends and a rapport with them so he could get more information in a very gentle way that could eventually lead to a clue in Kyron's disappearance.

The Horman family seems like a very religious family. Maybe this is the vendetta?
Yes, understanding the mind of a 2nd grader is important here. I believe that Kyron left w/ a family member or family 'friend'. He would likely ask permission from a teacher to leave the building, once inside for any other person. An abduction such as this took real inside knowledge. Anything could have gone wrong with some outsider planning this. How would they know the child's reactions so well? How would they know they would not be detected? How would they know the school would not call to confirm his absence? If the perp was inside the school building and someone saw Kyron talking to and walking with a person who was not his parent, they may be suspicious, or at least take notice so I don't believe that happened. That would be such a dumb move for a perp, and a sure-fire way of planning to getting caught. With the FBI getting on this case so quickly, I believe CARD has a very good idea of what happened. Does anyone know if any search was done in Wallowa County? 
Abducted from inside his school after the 2nd bell rang on his way to his classroom and just prior to attendence being taken?

Evening, everyone!
Puzzler- Thank you for this article!  Reading over this, how would a perp know when roll call was going to be taken, that he/she knew to take Kyron before roll call?  Someone knew roll call wasn't going to happen at the regularly scheduled time.  Someone knew what the window would be between exhibit set-up and roll call.  A landscaper or a turf maintenance person wouldn't know that...neither would a RSO off the street.  However, a parent who's "scheduled" a doctor appointment would.  A parent volunteering regularly in Kyron's class, who's developed a rapport with his teacher, asking seemingly innocent questions about the Science Fair set-up and schedule would.  Dr. Turco is spot on here.  A perp is not going to chance a scene with 300+ people milling around the school and parking lot.  This was someone Kyron knew or he was removed in some sort of container.  JMO

ISpy...I totally agree with you. Someone who took advantage of the chaos they knew would happen on that day.

[hellokitty]

 

I have one question for the Monkeys.  Is the DP in Oregon lethal injection or Old Sparky?

I am going to copy what happened on the Terri Horman support page tonight.  It might take me a couple of posts.  One of the things that Ti says said on the Kyron Horman Open discussion page was that there was no doctor's appointment scheduled ever.  THSP is saying that a former admin is TiSays Erid L

[Puzzler]

I tend to believe TH did try to negotiate a MFH. My opinion, for what it is worth 

The MFH plot may very well be true.  I'm on/off that fence about a dozen times a day.  I do think LS, cornered by LE again in connection with Terri, was enough for the story to come flying out.  I think he wanted to "get back at her" for bringing LE to his front door two separate times.

[hellokitty]

 

from THSP

Saturday at 9:37pm ·
#
Terri Horman Support Page (MB) LOL Eric (EL) from here made Tony a support page
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tony-Young...http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tony-Young-Support-Page/152952341394685?v=w
18 hours ago ·
#
Mylissa Gibson Why does he have a support page when he's never in the meida????.He's never around.
8 hours ago ·
#
Eric Robert Linden Jr. How do you know it was me?
5 hours ago ·
#
Terri Horman Support Page (MB) Because you posted about it.. and had a convo with Janet about it.
I thought everyone knew.. ??
4 hours ago ·
#
Eric Robert Linden Jr. Well, I once had an idea. Jeff took off with it I think.
25 minutes ago ·
#
Danielle Carter WHy are you lying?

[Puzzler]

I have one question for the Monkeys.  Is the DP in Oregon lethal injection or Old Sparky?

I am going to copy what happened on the Terri Horman support page tonight.  It might take me a couple of posts.  One of the things that Ti says said on the Kyron Horman Open discussion page was that there was no doctor's appointment scheduled ever.  THSP is saying that a former admin is TiSays Erid L

http://www.oregon.gov/DOC/OPS/PRISON/Prisons_FAQ.shtml

Does Oregon have the Death Penalty?

Yes, there are currently 30 inmates sentenced to die in Oregon.  Twenty-nine are housed at the Oregon State Penitentiary. One is housed at Two Rivers Correctional Institution in Umatilla.  All inmates sentenced to death have been convicted of Aggravated Murder.

Oregon voters reinstated the death penalty in 1984.
 
Since then, there have been two executions. Douglas Wright was executed by lethal injection on September 6, 1996. Harry Moore was executed by lethal injection on May 16, 1997.  Before Wright, the last inmate to be executed was LeeRoy Sanford McGahuey in 1962, the method used being the gas chamber.
 
Oregon uses only lethal injection for executions.

[Puzzler]

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8073.80
Reply #97


http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Criminal-profiler-analyzes-Kyron-case-95921749.html

PORTLAND -- An expert criminal profiler talked to KGW about his theories on what happened to Kyron Horman.

Dr. Ron Turco said something about this case does not add up. Turco does not believe that Kyron walked away with a stranger. He believes that the young boy was smart enough to know not to leave school with a stranger, so he must have left with someone he knew - possibly a family member or a family friend, or someone else that he trusted.

Dr. Turco also theorized that if Kyron was kidnapped, it could have been by someone familiar who holds a vendetta against the Horman family.

If he were on the case, Turco said that he would develop a friendship with the family and friends and a rapport with them so he could get more information in a very gentle way that could eventually lead to a clue in Kyron's disappearance.

The Horman family seems like a very religious family. Maybe this is the vendetta?
Yes, understanding the mind of a 2nd grader is important here. I believe that Kyron left w/ a family member or family 'friend'. He would likely ask permission from a teacher to leave the building, once inside for any other person. An abduction such as this took real inside knowledge. Anything could have gone wrong with some outsider planning this. How would they know the child's reactions so well? How would they know they would not be detected? How would they know the school would not call to confirm his absence? If the perp was inside the school building and someone saw Kyron talking to and walking with a person who was not his parent, they may be suspicious, or at least take notice so I don't believe that happened. That would be such a dumb move for a perp, and a sure-fire way of planning to getting caught. With the FBI getting on this case so quickly, I believe CARD has a very good idea of what happened. Does anyone know if any search was done in Wallowa County? 
Abducted from inside his school after the 2nd bell rang on his way to his classroom and just prior to attendence being taken?

Evening, everyone!
Puzzler- Thank you for this article!  Reading over this, how would a perp know when roll call was going to be taken, that he/she knew to take Kyron before roll call?  Someone knew roll call wasn't going to happen at the regularly scheduled time.  Someone knew what the window would be between exhibit set-up and roll call.  A landscaper or a turf maintenance person wouldn't know that...neither would a RSO off the street.  However, a parent who's "scheduled" a doctor appointment would.  A parent volunteering regularly in Kyron's class, who's developed a rapport with his teacher, asking seemingly innocent questions about the Science Fair set-up and schedule would.  Dr. Turco is spot on here.  A perp is not going to chance a scene with 300+ people milling around the school and parking lot.  This was someone Kyron knew or he was removed in some sort of container.  JMO

ISpy...I totally agree with you. Someone who took advantage of the chaos they knew would happen on that day.

I totally agree that someone took advantage of the chaos they knew would happen on that day.