Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND,OR #29 9/18/10 - 9/21/10

[Monkey King]

That may be why Terri was requesting the daily updates on Kyron.  To see if someone else was seeing a change in his behavoir.  Once it was determined, by the color coding system the teacher had, Terri notified the Dr. who suggested the teacher complete the paperwork and submitt it to the Dr., along with Terri's input for his evaluation.

If she thought he was ill, why would she want Kaine to punish him and have Kyron confined to his room? He was not ill nor did he deserve to punished for not having the right color report. TH was not a nice person.

I have no clue what the correct answer to your question is.  You would have to ask TH that question directly.  I can only speculate, which, like everyone else, is what I'm doing. 

I do know at that age, kids have a hard time sitting still, they talk and a lot of the time, just don't pay attention.  Apparently, Kyron had issues in following directions at school, listening to his teacher.

It's been said Terri was the one who came to the conclusion Kyron needed glasses.  Obviously, it appears, with her backround in teaching, she was noticing something else going on-either a behavoir issue and/or a physical problem.

Sounds like the intial response was he was fooling around in class, thus the punishment of going to his room.  Subsequent to that, the concerns were addressed with the Dr.- as the teacher was to monitor Kyron's behavoir.

       

 

I seriously wonder what kind of teacher would think that punishing a child by putting him in his room for not listening in school  .

I would think that teachers would think of checking any organic issues first.  Then they would consider his age, as he is really young to be in his grade.  I would think  that most children are 8 years old when they start the third grade.  He turned 8 after school started.  That would make him one of the youngest in his class, I would imagine.  And boys have a harder time sitting still in school and listening.  There are many studies on this.

Her actions are not appropriate for his misbehavior.  She also said a snarky comment about him on her FB when she brought the baby to celebrate her birthday in Kyron's class.  She posted a picture where Kyron was not shown.  And made a remark about how he was in the bathroom without permission. 

Setting the stage, was she?  And who brings a baby to celebrate a birthday at school?

HelloKitty~

The only way I could see these actions as appropriate, is if Kyron was goofing off intentionally in class, walking out of the classroom without asking, disrupting the class- etc...

Both Kaine and Desiree said they had to talk with Kyron about issues at school.

It's very well possible this was the begining of the issues that Terri was trying to resolve by seeking a medical justification for the behavoir.

[Puzzler]

Killer mom Diane Downs was suspected immediately by investigators, in the hours after she drove her children to the emergency room after having shot them and fabricated a story about a stranger on a dark road.

Investigators had no choice but to follow up on the stranger story.  But from the beginning they knew that her story was not adding up and her behavior was beyond suspicious under the circumstances.

They conducted a diligent investigation and her arrest did not take place until NINE MONTHS after she shot her children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Downs

Sometimes slow and steady wins the race, IMO.  It has been less than four months since Kyron disappeared.  Staton said that he felt confident there would be a prosecution.  He indicated that the task force will work diligently to make their case, and that there are many details and facts that he cannot share with the public at this point.

I do hope Kyron is found soon.

I know you're right that slow and steady wins the race.  And is one of the reasons I commented that if Terri's ever arrested, that I hope the put her under the prison.  I believe LE will have their solid concrete evidence when they make arrest(s).  Short of finding Kyron....

I keep thinking the first week in October we'll know what happened to Kryon.  This means nothing.  Just that the first week of October keeps popping up in my mind. Maybe it's wishful thinking.

Why hasn't Terri cracked under all this pressure?  I've practically lost all hope that she's not going to crack this late in the game. 

Can't wait for their next court date.  Maybe something will come out of that? 

 

Who knows maybe a few more months locked in that house with her parents, no phone, no computer, no friends, she will Crack!  Just not the way we hope she will.  I just can't believe a person who was as social on the Web as she was can maintain for that long and not break at some point and start spewing all.

JMO or my wishful thinking.

Oh, no...no cracking to the insane side in this case, Miss Terri.  Any cracking must be to spill the beans.  I don't even want to "think" about the word insanity in this case! 

[Lazydog1]

I am now calming down. TYVM. 

I was so angry when I got home from work tonight, My BP is still very high.

I was driving home all was good. Turned on my road from the Hwy went around the sharp curve and about one more block down the street. When I was hit with WTH. Here are two little boys, no adults to be seen, riding motorized scooters down the middle of my lane of traffic. They are wearing helmets but the helmets are not fastened at all. The youngest one was probably 6yo if that. The older one maybe 8yo.  Behind me are about 3 other cars who can not see over my Pick up or around it to see why I am now traveling at slug pace.  I see one guy behind me who is ready to make the jump and fly by me. Nope not happening so I move over and take both lanes kind of which really angered the guy behind me.  I wasn't going to have these boys decide at that moment to strike out across the road and get hit. 

I managed to keep everyone behind me, get the little boys attention so they would get off the road without scaring them to death and gently ease around them. They were as far over to the curb as they could get and dead stop waiting for all of us to go around.

A beautiful little boy in our area is missing, no one knows what happened to him and people are still allowing these small children to just roam alone. 

 

Wow, thank goodness it was you who pulled up behind them.

Reminds me that Kaine once said to the press that he didn't know if Kyron just walked out of the school on his own or not.  (I tend to think that's not what happened - just saying...)

What's worse is it is the time that all the teens are heading home from school and not paying attention to who else might be on the road.  Today would not have been a good day for me to stop and confront their parents. 

Anyone out there know how to make bail.

Seriously someone needs to slap their parents real hard.

[Puzzler]

That may be why Terri was requesting the daily updates on Kyron.  To see if someone else was seeing a change in his behavoir. Once it was determined, by the color coding system the teacher had, Terri notified the Dr. who suggested the teacher complete the paperwork and submitt it to the Dr., along with Terri's input for his evaluation.

If it is true (as we have been told) that Terri was insisting on stern punishment for Kyron each day that his behavior was not up to a certain strict standard, then it would not make sense that her purpose for requiring the daily updates was related only to an assessment of his symptoms for medical purposes.

What is the source for the stern punishment?  Do you have a link or can you direct me to the source?  I would like to read further into this aspect of the Horman household.  TIA-MK

Sure, MonkeyKing, no problem.  Here is one (an excerpt from a news story last updated August 23:)
- - - - -
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/08/terri_horman.html

[..]

Still, no one said they could imagine that a woman who has devoted so much of her life to children could have been involved in his disappearance.

"I would agree with that statement up until a point in time," said Kaine Horman, her 36-year-old estranged husband, who has filed for divorce and obtained a restraining order against her. "I know a lot of things now that I didn't before. Now, I think there is a huge problem. I don't know what she's not capable of at this point."

Her attitude changed in the past year after Kyron entered second grade, he said. His teacher, with a color-coding system for her class, rated the kids on their behavior. Green was good, yellow signaled moments of inattention, blue indicated trouble and red sent them home.

Kaine said the teacher called parents about a blue or red card. But he said his wife was the only parent who asked for daily accounts from the teacher.

"Terri wanted notification whether it was green, yellow, red or blue," he said. "Every day she wanted it. That, to me, is extremely excessive. The child is in second grade."

He said when Kyron brought home anything but a green card she wanted Kaine to discipline him by grounding him to his room for the evening, eliminating play time or not letting him watch movies.

"There was no room for error," Kaine said.

The couple frequently argued about disciplining Kyron, he said.

[..]

- - - - -

Kaine was Kyron's dad.  He could have stopped the "there was no room for error".  He doesn't say whether he did that or not.

[Monkey King]

If we go with the school scenario in that Ky was taken an placed in the basement, why would a perp do this?  How could the perp guarantee that Ky would not be found or make noise or die in the school?  He would have to be drugged and then tied and then have something put over his mouth which could result in him dying from not being able to breathe.

That scenario makes no sense to me.

Nor to me, HelloKitty.  I am very intrigued by the suggestion that slipped out when Desiree was answering a question on camera -- that Kyron was seen by a witness or witnesses near a white truck (presumably at the school) which may or may not have been the truck Terri drove to the school that morning.  If it is true that a witness saw Kyron near the/a truck after the time when Terri supposedly told him goodbye and walked out of the building, then that is a highly significant fact to take into account.  And highly incriminating to Terri, IMO.

Shortly after LE began investigating Kyron's disappearance, they assured the public that no one else was in danger, and that Kyron's disappearance was an isolated incident.  From what they were hearing/learning in those first hours, they seem to have known right away that it was not a stranger abduction... IMO, they understood very early on that in Terri, they were dealing with a classic case of LLPOF.  (Thanks, Nana!)

Well, if they were that "sure" of Terri "right away", it's sad that in almost 4 months they've not been able to develop enough concrete evidence for an arrest. 

I think that it could have been "too soon" to have totally turned to "Terri only" and made that sweeping decision in the first hours.

What does an isolated incident mean exactly?  Does is mean that only one child was taken?  Yes, that's obvious.  But to say everything's okay because this is an isolated incident - what does that mean and how can LE determine that with certainty in the first few hours?  You can't say because the stepmom did it - because after all this time and all this pressure LE hasn't arrested the stepmom.

Maybe Terri is the "one" and if she is I hope to he77 they put her under the prison.

I can't figure out if the person(s) doing this is really smart and planned for days in advance, or just simply lucky to get away with taking Kyron during a split-moment of opportunity.


Kyron by the truck - have we heard a timeframe for that?  I don't recall one.  Kyron could have been seen by the truck when he first got to school, too.  A timeframe would help to clear that up.

Hi Puzzler,  In the presser of the 12th LE said the time frame for the truck being parked on the access rd was 8:15 to 8:45.

So, we really don't know if Kyron was seen by the truck "before" he entered the school or sometime "later"?

Don't forget about Ground's Keeper Dave, the Turf Technician who had his timeline and then corrected it.  Maybe someone saw Kyron around his white truck?

[Puzzler]

I wanted to share this regarding Jason Name Redacted/Name Redacted2 and Jaime Sanchez Estrada from BOC. Very interesting read.

 enumclawrose says:
September 21, 2010 at 5:17 pm

The other day someone was looking at the Oaxana angle. I brought up OEA because they are a sponsor on the orphanage’s website. This is the same orphanage that Friend’s of Pimpollo supports.

No wonder ELOISE got a pat on the back today from Blink. She tied Jaime to OEA. That means it is possible for Jaime Sanchez Estrada and Jason Name Redacted2 to have met through their charitable endeavors.

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/09/09/kyron-horman-missing-case-review-and-birthday-wishes-to-the-frog-prince/comment-page-22/#comments

There are a couple more paragraphs at Blink I didn't copy and bring over. 

I am hoping this will further someones research here into the orphanage connection and Jason Name Redacted

Wow! Thanks!  I'll mosey over to Blink's site in a few and read about it.

[Desdemona]

Killer mom Diane Downs was suspected immediately by investigators, in the hours after she drove her children to the emergency room after having shot them and fabricated a story about a stranger on a dark road.

Investigators had no choice but to follow up on the stranger story.  But from the beginning they knew that her story was not adding up and her behavior was beyond suspicious under the circumstances.

They conducted a diligent investigation and her arrest did not take place until NINE MONTHS after she shot her children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Downs

Sometimes slow and steady wins the race, IMO.  It has been less than four months since Kyron disappeared.  Staton said that he felt confident there would be a prosecution.  He indicated that the task force will work diligently to make their case, and that there are many details and facts that he cannot share with the public at this point.

I do hope Kyron is found soon.

I know you're right that slow and steady wins the race.  And is one of the reasons I commented that if Terri's ever arrested, that I hope the put her under the prison.  I believe LE will have their solid concrete evidence when they make arrest(s).  Short of finding Kyron....

I keep thinking the first week in October we'll know what happened to Kryon.  This means nothing.  Just that the first week of October keeps popping up in my mind. Maybe it's wishful thinking.

Why hasn't Terri cracked under all this pressure?  I've practically lost all hope that she's not going to crack this late in the game. 

Can't wait for their next court date.  Maybe something will come out of that?

  Who knows maybe a few more months locked in that house with her parents, no phone, no computer, no friends, she will Crack!  Just not the way we hope she will.  I just can't believe a person who was as social on the Web as she was can maintain for that long and not break at some point and start spewing all.

JMO or my wishful thinking.

While it would (IMO) mean a huge break in the case if Terri would spill the beans and tell the truth, it is hard to count on that happening in this case.  Her attorney has done quite a good job of keeping her muzzled up to now.  She is not even fighting the restraining order -- in effect just giving up her child! -- in order to keep from having to speak in court... That is about as hard core as silence can get, IMO.  She seems to have so much to lose that giving up her daughter entirely is a worthwhile trade-off for her -- to me that speaks volumes.  She will probably stay quiet for the time being, unfortunately.

Casey Anthony has never told what really happened to Caylee.  And we would probably all be very surprised if she ever did.

BTW, do we know for sure that Terri is still staying at her parents'? Has she been sighted at all, anywhere, since the hearing?

[hellokitty]

 

Did Kaine stop the punishment or not?  We don't know.  He did say that it was the source of arguments.

Perhaps, he deferred to her greater knowledge as a teacher with a "master's" degree.

Poor Kyron.  I think that is why LE said that they wish they didn't know some things.  I think LE wishes that they didn't know how Kyron was treated before he went missing.  It can be that some people reported to LE things that they had witnessed , but didn't want to confront TH about.

Let's not forget that TH got in a 7 year old's face .  she wrote that on her FB.  What adult does that and brags about it on FB?  I think that gives insight as well .

[Desdemona]

Don't forget about Ground's Keeper Dave, the Turf Technician who had his timeline and then corrected it.  Maybe someone saw Kyron around his white truck?

Can a theory involving the groundskeeper's truck be squared with Terri's lies before and after Kyron disappeared, and her deafening silence now?

[hellokitty]

 

She's such a femme fatale that perhaps she started sexting the GK right then and there and he succumbed to her every wish.

 

[Monkey King]

Don't forget about Ground's Keeper Dave, the Turf Technician who had his timeline and then corrected it.  Maybe someone saw Kyron around his white truck?

Can a theory involving the groundskeeper's truck be squared with Terri's lies before and after Kyron disappeared, and her deafening silence now?

I don't know, can it? 

[Scandi]

If we go with the school scenario in that Ky was taken an placed in the basement, why would a perp do this?  How could the perp guarantee that Ky would not be found or make noise or die in the school?  He would have to be drugged and then tied and then have something put over his mouth which could result in him dying from not being able to breathe.

That scenario makes no sense to me.

Nor to me, HelloKitty.  I am very intrigued by the suggestion that slipped out when Desiree was answering a question on camera -- that Kyron was seen by a witness or witnesses near a white truck (presumably at the school) which may or may not have been the truck Terri drove to the school that morning.  If it is true that a witness saw Kyron near the/a truck after the time when Terri supposedly told him goodbye and walked out of the building, then that is a highly significant fact to take into account.  And highly incriminating to Terri, IMO.

Shortly after LE began investigating Kyron's disappearance, they assured the public that no one else was in danger, and that Kyron's disappearance was an isolated incident.  From what they were hearing/learning in those first hours, they seem to have known right away that it was not a stranger abduction... IMO, they understood very early on that in Terri, they were dealing with a classic case of LLPOF.  (Thanks, Nana!)

Well, if they were that "sure" of Terri "right away", it's sad that in almost 4 months they've not been able to develop enough concrete evidence for an arrest. 

I think that it could have been "too soon" to have totally turned to "Terri only" and made that sweeping decision in the first hours.

What does an isolated incident mean exactly?  Does is mean that only one child was taken?  Yes, that's obvious.  But to say everything's okay because this is an isolated incident - what does that mean and how can LE determine that with certainty in the first few hours?  You can't say because the stepmom did it - because after all this time and all this pressure LE hasn't arrested the stepmom.

Maybe Terri is the "one" and if she is I hope to he77 they put her under the prison.

I can't figure out if the person(s) doing this is really smart and planned for days in advance, or just simply lucky to get away with taking Kyron during a split-moment of opportunity.


Kyron by the truck - have we heard a timeframe for that?  I don't recall one.  Kyron could have been seen by the truck when he first got to school, too.  A timeframe would help to clear that up.

Hi Puzzler,  In the presser of the 12th LE said the time frame for the truck being parked on the access rd was 8:15 to 8:45.

So, we really don't know if Kyron was seen by the truck "before" he entered the school or sometime "later"?

Don't forget about Ground's Keeper Dave, the Turf Technician who had his timeline and then corrected it.  Maybe someone saw Kyron around his white truck?

Hi,  He corrected it 9 instead of 8:45, right?  He'd have to put the mower away before he left for his next job.  Maybe he meant he left the school at 9am. 

What would he do with Kyron while he was putting the mower away?  And his truck wouldn't have been parked out in front of the school.

[Monkey King]

She's such a femme fatale that perhaps she started sexting the GK right then and there and he succumbed to her every wish.

 

[Desdemona]

I seriously wonder what kind of teacher would think that punishing a child by putting him in his room for not listening in school  .

I would think that teachers would think of checking any organic issues first.  Then they would consider his age, as he is really young to be in his grade.  I would think  that most children are 8 years old when they start the third grade.  He turned 8 after school started.  That would make him one of the youngest in his class, I would imagine.  And boys have a harder time sitting still in school and listening.  There are many studies on this.

Her actions are not appropriate for his misbehavior.  She also said a snarky comment about him on her FB when she brought the baby to celebrate her birthday in Kyron's class.  She posted a picture where Kyron was not shown.  And made a remark about how he was in the bathroom without permission. 

Setting the stage, was she?  And who brings a baby to celebrate a birthday at school?

HelloKitty~

The only way I could see these actions as appropriate, is if Kyron was goofing off intentionally in class, walking out of the classroom without asking, disrupting the class- etc...

Both Kaine and Desiree said they had to talk with Kyron about issues at school.

It's very well possible this was the begining of the issues that Terri was trying to resolve by seeking a medical justification for the behavoir.

I may be wrong, but I thought K and D said that the issue was about "listening to adults" or something like that.  Besides, how interesting that the school administrator (who reportedly knew Terri well) and who reported that she saw Kyron at the science fair with Terri that morning, was quoted in an article posted upthread, describing Kyron as a well-behaved child who followed the rules...  Have we heard any reports of Kyron having behavior problems?  I can't recall any, but ICBW.

[Wyks]

Wyks is correct about a few of us who are sitting back reading and biting our tounges in regards to our personal thoughts regarding this case.
(I think she knows quite a few of us quite well actually lol.)
 

I continue to believe that Kyron is still alive.
I feel that this case and Kyron's disappearance is the result of a powder keg like affect that was brought on by several very selfish, ignorant and corrupt individuals. (That is me putting it nicely.)
It's as nice as I can afford.
That's pretty much all I can add to the discussion right now.

Well, that and to the person(s) responsible for Kyron's disappearance:
It's time to let Kyron be found. Drop him off at a Church, firestation, hospital, or school etc... Let Kyron go.

All JMVHO
~Peace

Hi Patricia, good to see ya posting! 

I agree with you, and my hope as well is that Kyron is found.  If someone has him, all they need do is drop him off at a safe place, like you've mentioned.  He needs to come home. 

[Puzzler]

I don't recall any LE report or news report of confirmation of the doctor's appointment and/or date of doctor's appointment; however, as vocal as it's been for for things anti-Terri in an attempt to put pressure on her to crack, I'm thinking that "if" there was "no" doctor's appointment, that piece of info would have been leaked to the public long ago.  That would have been a great piece to put pressure on Terri IMO.

Good point; that is possible.  However, I tend to believe that LE is more concerned with preserving the incriminating details that they themselves can use to exert pressure on Terri and to prove her involvement, rather than creating public pressure by sharing information with us Monkeys and everybody else out there... JMO.  There is apparently(IMO) a LOT of information being held close to the vest by LE, which we the public are not privileged to be informed about at present... Perhaps we will one day learn these details.  Wish we could know it all right now!  Wish they could find Kyron.

Des -

Well, LE did tell un in their last talk with the public, that we'll look back and be able to put things together (words to that effect).

Wish they could find Kyron, too.  Question:  What do you think it is they're dealing with here: wizened perps that deal within the criminal element all the time and know how to make a person disappear before your eyes or a person(s) who just happen to get lucky in a plot/scheme to get rid of a little boy?

[fatcatlurker]

She's such a femme fatale that perhaps she started sexting the GK right then and there and he succumbed to her every wish.

 

Maybe these are the things LE wished they didn't know...ha ha ha!  Seriously j/j.

[Puzzler]

Dang it! I got in your box.  Sorry Puzzler, next time I promise I will knock and wait till you answer before entering your abode.

 

No worries, mate...I do the same thing.

[Puzzler]

If we go with the school scenario in that Ky was taken an placed in the basement, why would a perp do this?  How could the perp guarantee that Ky would not be found or make noise or die in the school?  He would have to be drugged and then tied and then have something put over his mouth which could result in him dying from not being able to breathe.

That scenario makes no sense to me.

Nor to me, HelloKitty.  I am very intrigued by the suggestion that slipped out when Desiree was answering a question on camera -- that Kyron was seen by a witness or witnesses near a white truck (presumably at the school) which may or may not have been the truck Terri drove to the school that morning.  If it is true that a witness saw Kyron near the/a truck after the time when Terri supposedly told him goodbye and walked out of the building, then that is a highly significant fact to take into account.  And highly incriminating to Terri, IMO.

Shortly after LE began investigating Kyron's disappearance, they assured the public that no one else was in danger, and that Kyron's disappearance was an isolated incident.  From what they were hearing/learning in those first hours, they seem to have known right away that it was not a stranger abduction... IMO, they understood very early on that in Terri, they were dealing with a classic case of LLPOF.  (Thanks, Nana!)

Well, if they were that "sure" of Terri "right away", it's sad that in almost 4 months they've not been able to develop enough concrete evidence for an arrest. 

I think that it could have been "too soon" to have totally turned to "Terri only" and made that sweeping decision in the first hours.

What does an isolated incident mean exactly?  Does is mean that only one child was taken?  Yes, that's obvious.  But to say everything's okay because this is an isolated incident - what does that mean and how can LE determine that with certainty in the first few hours?  You can't say because the stepmom did it - because after all this time and all this pressure LE hasn't arrested the stepmom.

Maybe Terri is the "one" and if she is I hope to he77 they put her under the prison.

I can't figure out if the person(s) doing this is really smart and planned for days in advance, or just simply lucky to get away with taking Kyron during a split-moment of opportunity.


Kyron by the truck - have we heard a timeframe for that?  I don't recall one.  Kyron could have been seen by the truck when he first got to school, too.  A timeframe would help to clear that up.

Hi Puzzler,  In the presser of the 12th LE said the time frame for the truck being parked on the access rd was 8:15 to 8:45.

So, we really don't know if Kyron was seen by the truck "before" he entered the school or sometime "later"?

Don't forget about Ground's Keeper Dave, the Turf Technician who had his timeline and then corrected it.  Maybe someone saw Kyron around his white truck?

Yes, I had forgotten that one.  Also, Turf Tech saw children outside without chaperones.

[Puzzler]

Did Kaine stop the punishment or not?  We don't know.  He did say that it was the source of arguments.

Perhaps, he deferred to her greater knowledge as a teacher with a "master's" degree.

Poor Kyron.  I think that is why LE said that they wish they didn't know some things.  I think LE wishes that they didn't know how Kyron was treated before he went missing.  It can be that some people reported to LE things that they had witnessed , but didn't want to confront TH about.

Let's not forget that TH got in a 7 year old's face .  she wrote that on her FB.  What adult does that and brags about it on FB?  I think that gives insight as well .

Deferring to greater knowledge of a masters degree...wouldn't work for me...if I didn't agree with how my child was being treated by a step parent - by golly - that treatment would STOP!