Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #30 9/21/10 - 9/27/10

[4myjoey]

And again, even though I can find  no acknowledgement that anyone even read this, doesn't ruling DeDe out as a suspect improve the chances of finding Kyron?

 
This is not about poor little DeDe. She stepped willingly into a situation by living with TH for 8 days and buying the cell phones and using them. She should have given far more thought to that situation. 

This is not about poor little TH either. THIS IS ABOUT AN 8YO PRECIOUS LITTLE BOY. His name is Kyron Horman. It seems those who post here trying to support their friends don't make that statement until we confront them with the fact that they didnt'. Then they slip it in. 

And yes I am angry this morning. 

I know you guys see Terri, and probably DeDe too, as unredeemable, and I know that nothing I say is going to make that any different.  I came here, as I have said several times, to offer up facts that might show that DeDe was not involved in Kyron's disappearance.

What was LE's reaction when you sat down with them to give them these "facts"?

You did talk to LE about what you know, right?

[Flymonkey]

And again, even though I can find  no acknowledgement that anyone even read this, doesn't ruling DeDe out as a suspect improve the chances of finding Kyron?

 
This is not about poor little DeDe. She stepped willingly into a situation by living with TH for 8 days and buying the cell phones and using them. She should have given far more thought to that situation. 

This is not about poor little TH either. THIS IS ABOUT AN 8YO PRECIOUS LITTLE BOY. His name is Kyron Horman. It seems those who post here trying to support their friends don't make that statement until we confront them with the fact that they didnt'. Then they slip it in. 

And yes I am angry this morning. 

I know you guys see Terri, and probably DeDe too, as unredeemable, and I know that nothing I say is going to make that any different. I came here, as I have said several times, to offer up facts that might show that DeDe was not involved in Kyron's disappearance.

What was LE's reaction when you sat down with them to give them these "facts"?

You did talk to LE about what you know, right?

DeDe gave them all of this information when she met with them.  DeDe's impression is that they could not get past the fact that she was working at that farm, which I guess was approx. five miles from the school on the day he went missing.  They were so sure that that could not possibly be a coincidence, she thinks they ignored the info, or felt she was lying.  Not much you can do when people don't believe you.

I talked to police very briefly.  They didn't have much to ask me, except for "what did DeDe say Terri said about..."

[Tolerance]

Flymonkey,
I understand and respect supporting a friend.
I am, though, confused about the method you have chosen to do so.
Is DeDe okay with you speaking about and for her?
It would make me uncomfortable were I her.
Also, it may be wise for you to consider the implications of you interjecting yourself into such a sad situation.
What you or any of us think about DeDe is irrelevant to Kyron.  What is relevant is how she fits into Kyron being missing.
I think I will wait for LE information or GJ information.
Best Regards,
Tolerance

[mompalm]

FlyMonkey:

According to this report, http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/investigators_put_pressure_on.html police have given Kyron's family reason to believe that DeDe told "others who may have information regarding Kyron's disappearance" not to cooperate with law enforcement.
 

She has not only been in close communication with Terri but has been providing Terri with support and advice that is not in the best interests of our son.  Additional information provided shows that she is refusing to cooperate with law enforcement, she is also going as far as to suggest to others that may have information regarding Kyron’s disappearance, not to cooperate as well.

What do you know about DeDe's comments regarding cooperating w/LE, and why would she tell someone not to talk? Also, what support did she give Terri that is not in Kyron's best interests?

thanks

[Flymonkey]

Flymonkey,
I understand and respect supporting a friend.
I am, though, confused about the method you have chosen to do so.
Is DeDe okay with you speaking about and for her?
It would make me uncomfortable were I her.
Also, it may be wise for you to consider the implications of you interjecting yourself into such a sad situation.
What you or any of us think about DeDe is irrelevant to Kyron.  What is relevant is how she fits into Kyron being missing.
I think I will wait for LE information or GJ information.
Best Regards,
Tolerance

Hi Tolerance, I see what you're saying, and I will certainly shut up the minute DeDe tells me to.  She hasn't yet, because all that I am saying is the truth.  She wants people to know all the facts that LE has because the facts support her innocence.  Since I know that DeDe was not involved in Kyron's disappearance, I don't expect to hear anything from either LE or the GJ.  The GJ is only going to hand down an indictment, not anything exculpatory of anyone - if they are ever given enough evidence to do so.  And LE, even if they stop investigating DeDe, is not going to announce that she is not involved.  At this point that would just make them look foolish.  As invested as they are in finding Kyron, I don't think they will be announcing anything that will make them look like they made any errors in the investigation.  Of course, this is JMO.

Again, I am only interested in the facts, and how they fit into Kyron being missing.  If all I can do is convince a few monkeys that DeDe isn't part of that fact pattern, then I guess that's all I can do.

[Puzzler]

Sorry, I haven't had time to read all of the back posts, but here are a couple of things I wanted to clear up.  When I said that DeDe and Terri didn't talk about the details of the crime, my impression was that the monkey who was asking was implying that they had committed a crime and were discussing their own nefarious actions.  If that WAS the implication, then no, they didn't talk about those kinds of details.  But were they talking about Kyron's disappearance in general, and the investigation?  I don't think they talked about much else.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Regarding the support pages:  Kyron is clearly the victim here and deserves to be found and brought home.  However, I don't think anyone can dispute that others have been harmed in the course of the investigation.  Saying that we as human beings can only focus our concern on one person at a time is nonsense.  If I had the slightest clue where or how to find Kyron, I would absolutely go and do it.  At the same time, I can support my friend, because I know her and I know that her life has been completely disrupted.

So yes, I am definitely for Kyron -- he's obviously a sweet kid who should be with his family, and it's pretty sick and sad that someone is keeping him from them.  But aren't you all providing emotional support for your friends and families in your lives outside of the cage?

And again, even though I can find  no acknowledgement that anyone even read this, doesn't ruling DeDe out as a suspect improve the chances of finding Kyron?

Not sure what you mean in your last para. 
Are you saying DeDe has been ruled out as a suspect?

No, I just mean that I am hoping to offer information that helps the monkeys see her as ruled out.

Flymonkey - thank you.

[fatcatlurker]

Flymonkey has DeDe gotten her computer and cellphone back from yet? 

Did she figure out who the person in the red truck is that she was talking to that morning?

How does she feel about the fact that the lady she worked for that morning has lawyered up and is not talking to her/her lawyer?

What does she think about the coworker who said they went and physically searched the property for her that morning and did not find her? 

Has she cleared up the time in question of that morning with investigators or is it still in question?

[Flymonkey]

FlyMonkey:

According to this report, http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/07/investigators_put_pressure_on.html police have given Kyron's family reason to believe that DeDe told "others who may have information regarding Kyron's disappearance" not to cooperate with law enforcement.
 

She has not only been in close communication with Terri but has been providing Terri with support and advice that is not in the best interests of our son.  Additional information provided shows that she is refusing to cooperate with law enforcement, she is also going as far as to suggest to others that may have information regarding Kyron’s disappearance, not to cooperate as well.

What do you know about DeDe's comments regarding cooperating w/LE, and why would she tell someone not to talk? Also, what support did she give Terri that is not in Kyron's best interests?

thanks

Of course I don't know specifically what Kaine and Desiree were talking about in that letter.  My suspicion is that they were referring to the fact that DeDe had advised Terri to get a lawyer earlier in the investigation.  Police consider it "uncooperative" to get an attorney, because they prefer to deal with people who don't know their rights (and there's more to your rights than the Miranda warning).  I also believe that LE was giving information to KH and DY so that any info like that letter would be coming from someplace other than the MCSO.  It makes Kaine and Desiree responsible for the information getting out there, rather than LE, and LE prefers to avoid liability (everybody does, actually).

DeDe never told anyone not to talk to the police, and DeDe  herself was extremely cooperative, as I said earlier.  She met with LE at least three times for more than three hours each time, until they started treating her like a suspect.

[Flymonkey]

Sorry, I haven't had time to read all of the back posts, but here are a couple of things I wanted to clear up.  When I said that DeDe and Terri didn't talk about the details of the crime, my impression was that the monkey who was asking was implying that they had committed a crime and were discussing their own nefarious actions.  If that WAS the implication, then no, they didn't talk about those kinds of details.  But were they talking about Kyron's disappearance in general, and the investigation?  I don't think they talked about much else.  Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Regarding the support pages:  Kyron is clearly the victim here and deserves to be found and brought home.  However, I don't think anyone can dispute that others have been harmed in the course of the investigation.  Saying that we as human beings can only focus our concern on one person at a time is nonsense.  If I had the slightest clue where or how to find Kyron, I would absolutely go and do it.  At the same time, I can support my friend, because I know her and I know that her life has been completely disrupted.

So yes, I am definitely for Kyron -- he's obviously a sweet kid who should be with his family, and it's pretty sick and sad that someone is keeping him from them.  But aren't you all providing emotional support for your friends and families in your lives outside of the cage?

And again, even though I can find  no acknowledgement that anyone even read this, doesn't ruling DeDe out as a suspect improve the chances of finding Kyron?

Not sure what you mean in your last para. 
Are you saying DeDe has been ruled out as a suspect?

No, I just mean that I am hoping to offer information that helps the monkeys see her as ruled out.

Flymonkey - thank you.

Welcome!

[can]

oops...that was a short visit Flymonkey.

When you return... Did Dede and Terri reach any conclusions/scenarios in their discussions about Kyron's disappearance?  ty.

They speculated the way you all speculate, but they didn't have any information that everybody else doesn't have and they didn't reach any conclusions.  When Kyron wasn't found right around the school or "down a well," so to speak -- that is, he hadn't wandered off and hurt himself -- their assumption became that it was a stranger abduction.

They have far more information than I have.  I don't know Terri's relationships and associates and who among them, in hindight, might have/could have posed a threat to Kyron.  That is why those close to the missing talk and talk to LE in hope of assisting them in finding a solution.

DeDe and Terri's assumption is that it is a stranger abduction.  LE does not appear to believe this.  IIRC they said they don't believe this is a random abduction.

[Flymonkey]

Flymonkey has DeDe gotten her computer and cellphone back from yet? 

Did she figure out who the person in the red truck is that she was talking to that morning?

How does she feel about the fact that the lady she worked for that morning has lawyered up and is not talking to her/her lawyer?

What does she think about the coworker who said they went and physically searched the property for her that morning and did not find her? 

Has she cleared up the time in question of that morning with investigators or is it still in question?

No, she hasn't gotten her things back yet.  We think there is a 90-day limit for LE to keep them without charging her or actually needing them to continue the investigation, and that limit is up in the middle of October.  Her atty may file a motion to have them release her property then.

The red truck guy...  DeDe didn't know him or his name, just that he had driven up to the house past where she was working that morning and that they exchanged a few words.  She doesn't know how to go about trying to find him.  She is under the impression that the DA's office has ID'd him and interviewed him, but they won't give her that info unless they charge her with something and then they will have to turn over his name.

The folks who own the farm have gotten an attorney, and all we can figure is that the DA's office has instructed them not to talk to DeDe or her atty.  I suppose they probably just want to cooperate with LE as much as they can and keep their heads down.  It's frustrating, but people get nervous.

They did not actually "search" the property that day.  They called for her to come in to lunch and maybe looked around a little, but she didn't hear them and was working fairly far from the house.  They had no reason to launch an entire search party -- why wouldn't she just come back to the house when she got hungry?  She thinks that this is just a misunderstanding aobut the extent of their efforts to find her.  She has showed her attorney where she worked on the farm that morning and what she was doing, and he is satisfied that she never left the property.  The info was shared with Norm (DA) but we don't know if Norm is satisfied with the info or not -- he has not shared that info.

[klaasend]

Flymonkey - out of curiosity.  Are either you, DeDe or Terri friends with Paul Pavlock?

[fatcatlurker]

Flymonkey has DeDe gotten her computer and cellphone back from yet? 

Did she figure out who the person in the red truck is that she was talking to that morning?

How does she feel about the fact that the lady she worked for that morning has lawyered up and is not talking to her/her lawyer?

What does she think about the coworker who said they went and physically searched the property for her that morning and did not find her? 

Has she cleared up the time in question of that morning with investigators or is it still in question?

No, she hasn't gotten her things back yet.  We think there is a 90-day limit for LE to keep them without charging her or actually needing them to continue the investigation, and that limit is up in the middle of October.  Her atty may file a motion to have them release her property then.

The red truck guy...  DeDe didn't know him or his name, just that he had driven up to the house past where she was working that morning and that they exchanged a few words.  She doesn't know how to go about trying to find him.  She is under the impression that the DA's office has ID'd him and interviewed him, but they won't give her that info unless they charge her with something and then they will have to turn over his name.

The folks who own the farm have gotten an attorney, and all we can figure is that the DA's office has instructed them not to talk to DeDe or her atty.  I suppose they probably just want to cooperate with LE as much as they can and keep their heads down.  It's frustrating, but people get nervous.

They did not actually "search" the property that day.  They called for her to come in to lunch and maybe looked around a little, but she didn't hear them and was working fairly far from the house.  They had no reason to launch an entire search party -- why wouldn't she just come back to the house when she got hungry?  She thinks that this is just a misunderstanding aobut the extent of their efforts to find her.  She has showed her attorney where she worked on the farm that morning and what she was doing, and he is satisfied that she never left the property.  The info was shared with Norm (DA) but we don't know if Norm is satisfied with the info or not -- he has not shared that info.

Thank you Flymonkey.

[Flymonkey]

oops...that was a short visit Flymonkey.

When you return... Did Dede and Terri reach any conclusions/scenarios in their discussions about Kyron's disappearance?  ty.

They speculated the way you all speculate, but they didn't have any information that everybody else doesn't have and they didn't reach any conclusions.  When Kyron wasn't found right around the school or "down a well," so to speak -- that is, he hadn't wandered off and hurt himself -- their assumption became that it was a stranger abduction.

They have far more information than I have.  I don't know Terri's relationships and associates and who among them, in hindight, might have/could have posed a threat to Kyron.  That is why those close to the missing talk and talk to LE in hope of assisting them in finding a solution.

DeDe and Terri's assumption is that it is a stranger abduction.  LE does not appear to believe this.  IIRC they said they don't believe this is a random abduction.

Since the LE theory that it was not a stranger abduction is probably based on the fact that they suspect Terri, and we're talking about what Terri thought happened, it seems reasonable that SHE might think it was a stranger.  DeDe and Terri both have suspicions about the landscaper, but I understand that some monkeys believe the MFH story, and so they discount any suspicions about the LS as trying to deflect attention away from the MFH.  I don't know what to tell you -- just letting you know what DeDe has told me.

I know little about Terri's relationships with others, and I don't think DeDe was close with any friends of Terri's, except possibly that she knew some from the gym.  Sorry I can't offer up more in that area.

[Flymonkey]

Flymonkey - out of curiosity.  Are either you, DeDe or Terri friends with Paul Pavlock?

I don't know who Paul Pavlock is, and I don't think DeDe has ever mentioned that name to me.  Terri, I do not know.  Would you like me to ask DeDe if she knows him?  Who is he?

[can]

Flymonkey - thanks for your responses.

[no rose colored glasses]

Flymonkey - thanks for your responses.

Yes, thank-you from me also.

[Justamama]

GOOD GRIEF.

You know, folks when you are being SPOON FED make sure the spoon isn't bent.

(going back to my lurking cave).


((I'm sorry, but it's just SO OBVIOUS)).

[sackyattack]

flymonkey,

i am on the fence about dede spicher, i think possibly she is being used by th and doesnt realise that le and others probably consider her suspect because of that. why? because th has shown no side we could say, oh she probably didnt do this horrible thing.  anyway would you ask dede if jason Name Redacted had known a man named jaime estrada, i heard they were friends. thanks. also could you ask dede if she thinks that this case will be solved soon. thanks in advance

[Flymonkey]

Flymonkey - thanks for your responses.

Yes, thank-you from me also.

You're all very welcome.  Thanks for having this forum.  Must go now, but will check back in tomorrow.  Keep up your investigations and hopefully Kyron will be home soon.