Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #30 9/21/10 - 9/27/10

[Monkey King]

If Kyron was taken out by a school employee I think it would be an employee that was normally seen outside. If he went outside with lets say a math teacher, woudln't that be odd? But if Kyron went outside with a school employee that normally left or was seen outside, then it may not stand out.

There must have been other kids outside because the gardner said he saw some kids and hoped they wouldn't play on the grass. So if there were kids and kyron was outside, would it stand out? He was said to be  quiet and shy, would he stand out? I have a quiet kid and everyone usually over looks him. Honestly, I cannot tell you how many times he is forgotten, not by us but by coaches or teachers. It has happened for years. So could this explain why he could just vanish? Poor Kyron was so shy he just disappeared naturally?

If I was planning this crime and I was a school employee to me the easiest thing to do would be to take him out in something like a container. but what bothers me about a simple employee is they would not know when Kyron would be missed and a big ol' search would happen. If this person is an employee they too would be missed, right? unless somehow there was a control measure in place to hold off on the panic. To me, it makes more sense if not Terri, it would be stranger or a person not employed with the school. They wouldn't need to control the panic, they would be gone and off to where ever.

I don't understand why it is believed Kyron must of known the person or he would have run away or screamed out. Kids go with abductors they don't know, all the time. Kyron is just a little kid, stranger danger may be something he had a full understanding of. A person could have told him a number of things to get him outside. I don't think a stranger is out of the realm of possibilities, in my opinion.

I brought up Dave Stenson, the grounds keeper, before in several posts.  (I hear it now!  Oh NO! Not again!!)

>Stenson was not an employee of Skyline, he was an employee of the City of Portland.
(Questionable weither he was ever backround checked to the extent a school staffer should be)

>He changed his timeline.

>His statement was funky- he said it was a "normal day".  (How's it normal when they had all those friends and relatives present for the science fair??)

>He noticed that children were running around outside the building, allegedly coming outside from the south door.  Unsupervised.  (He hoped they wouldn't come down to the soccer field)

>Due to the weather, the grounds would have been mushy, and difficult to mow without damaging the yard.  (Which monkey discussed this with me?)

***Does someone have a picture of Skyline custodian room/red door outside the school facing the soccer field and one that shows where the south door is?

Thanks,
MK

[Puzzler]

If Kyron was taken out by a school employee I think it would be an employee that was normally seen outside. If he went outside with lets say a math teacher, woudln't that be odd? But if Kyron went outside with a school employee that normally left or was seen outside, then it may not stand out.

There must have been other kids outside because the gardner said he saw some kids and hoped they wouldn't play on the grass. So if there were kids and kyron was outside, would it stand out? He was said to be  quiet and shy, would he stand out? I have a quiet kid and everyone usually over looks him. Honestly, I cannot tell you how many times he is forgotten, not by us but by coaches or teachers. It has happened for years. So could this explain why he could just vanish? Poor Kyron was so shy he just disappeared naturally?

If I was planning this crime and I was a school employee to me the easiest thing to do would be to take him out in something like a container. but what bothers me about a simple employee is they would not know when Kyron would be missed and a big ol' search would happen. If this person is an employee they too would be missed, right? unless somehow there was a control measure in place to hold off on the panic. To me, it makes more sense if not Terri, it would be stranger or a person not employed with the school. They wouldn't need to control the panic, they would be gone and off to where ever.

I don't understand why it is believed Kyron must of known the person or he would have run away or screamed out. Kids go with abductors they don't know, all the time. Kyron is just a little kid, stranger danger may be something he had a full understanding of. A person could have told him a number of things to get him outside. I don't think a stranger is out of the realm of possibilities, in my opinion.

I brought up Dave Stenson, the grounds keeper, before in several posts.  (I hear it now!  Oh NO! Not again!!)

>Stenson was not an employee of Skyline, he was an employee of the City of Portland.
(Questionable weither he was ever backround checked to the extent a school staffer should be)

>He changed his timeline.

>His statement was funky- he said it was a "normal day".  (How's it normal when they had all those friends and relatives present for the science fair??)

>He noticed that children were running around outside the building, allegedly coming outside from the south door.  Unsupervised.  (He hoped they wouldn't come down to the soccer field)

>Due to the weather, the grounds would have been mushy, and difficult to mow without damaging the yard.  (Which monkey discussed this with me?)

***Does someone have a picture of Skyline custodian room/red door outside the school facing the soccer field and one that shows where the south door is?

Thanks,
MK

MK, maybe it's in here.  This has some great photos of the school.

http://forums.radionewz.net/index.php?topic=151.0

[fatcatlurker]

Hello Monkeys!  Been away for a long weekend and finally caught up.  I see thoughts on FlyM are pretty much the same. 

I agree with going back to the school and looking there at some individuals again is a good idea. 

Did anyone else leave the school at the time Kyron went missing that we know about besides the turf technician? 

[Deenie]

Thank You CBB and Muffy -
I will start the thread, I hope that Clay Cat and Koko offer up and post  

[crazybabyborg]

You're welcome Deenie! If you find you need help, just shout out!  

[Monkey King]

I am trying to locate a picture of an alleged shed by the soccer field. 

Has anyone seen a photo of this?

[Kokos Cat]

MK & Puzzler,

I admire your great monkey brains and normally I would agree with you.

However, with all due respect, I respectfully disagree for this reason:

TERRY KEPT POINTING THE FINGER AT THE SCHOOL.

Now, I'm NOT saying the school is not partly responsible.  I'm too much of a child advocate to ever say that.  But, it's like Deenie's reference to Melissa Huckaby's yelling about her "suitcase" in the sad case of Sandra Cantu. 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8547.800

Of course, for this theory to work you have to believe that Terri Horman had some involvement in Kyron's disappearance. 

In my gut, I have always believed that TH is somehow involved, even if not directly responsible.  She knows something, and has used the school situation from the beginning as the perfect alibi or to deflect attention and responsibility away from herself, IMO.  It bought her a few precious hours and she was totally justified in pointing the finger at the school.  Parents were terrified and outraged, as they should have been.  And, I'm sure she was a sympathetic character, for a while. 

Then, I believe either Kaine and/or LE turned up the heat.... they knew she knew something... and so their statements that she was not "cooperating"  were totally accurate.  She was not telling them everything. 
 


 

I hear what you're saying Koko's and I respect that. 

MH is a serious whack-job as are the rest of these people who do these things.

Knowing there are two sides of everything, we've only been able to see one side.

Terri may or may not, have things about her life that are questionable.  None of us know her personally so we don't know what is normal or abnormal.  Her silence is what keeps these things forefront in our minds, couple that with Kaine and Desiree's accusations, LE saying one thing and Kaine and Desiree correcting the Sheriff's statement, the seemingly "vague", but telling, press conferences and the ever sensational media~  what are the people following this case supposed to think?

Whatever they think, it's their choice and I respect that.  We all bring different experiences to the table that contribute to our decision making process.  It is interesting to bounce our ideas off one another.

Thanks, MK, I appreciate hearing your POV.

I'm open to almost any scenario at this point.  What I'd like is some evidence!     But, given that none of that is forthcoming, I've been weaving together facts and feelings (I admit).

For instance, I'll look at a person's part in Kyron's case and draw out whatever facts or figures that I know.  Then, I kinda weave in armchair psychology with armchair detection.  I throw in a handful of "gut feelings" about the situation, for good measure, as is my privilege being a complete amateur and innocent bystander! 

All that being said, I'm afraid that the narrow focus on TH to the exclusion of all others may have caused this case to go in circles. 

I'm also curious as to whether or not it was LE's intent to put her "feet to the fire" to get her (or possibly her son) to talk, but everything came to a standstill when she hired Houze. 

Just another theory, of course.  I'm open to 'em all and only seriously invest in any that cause my hair to stand on end! 
 

Respectfully,

K. Cat

[Kokos Cat]

      

Dear Monkeys,

Being new to the cage and all, I must ask you this:  do you think Scared Monkeys can help solve crimes, and if so, how?

Many thanks in advance,

K. Cat.

 

K. Cat, those are interesting questions you pose, and maybe a thread can be started in the Monkey Lounge for discussion.  (Hint-this is Kyron's missing person thread     )

Dear Muffy,

Aha!  Thanks.  I will make a note of it and pop over there....

And now.....Back to Kyron! 
 

[nurseratchett]

Thanks for thw welcome CBB, and Scandi, nice to see you too.

Ok, so in my quest to try and decipher the what drives the behavior, and history behind the "who", I have looked at TH's recorded arrests in Oregon, and have found the following:

She has records with the following listed as "OFFENSE DATES"

9-20-1988      4-15-1990        8-20-1991    9-15-1995      1-23-1996     3-6-1996    4-4-2004      7-10-2005       9-21-2008

So, I believe the 2005 was the DUII, and something about illegal burning of leaves at the house  I "think" in 2008.

These are all listed under Terri Horman, Terri Moulton, Terri Lynn Moulton, or Terri Tarver,  all with DOB 3-14-1970. Thats quite the history. 9 arrests. I haven't checked Ecker yet.


Edit to fix date typo.  MB

[Brandi]

I am trying to locate a picture of an alleged shed by the soccer field. 

Has anyone seen a photo of this?

Assuming this is at the school soccer field.

From Sept. 2009 Album. (Terri's FB)

[Deenie]

Koko I just made a thread under Kyron's name. Kyron Horman Dreams
If you would like to post there ~ its available for you. 

 

[nurseratchett]

Thanks for thw welcome CBB, and Scandi, nice to see you too.

Ok, so in my quest to try and decipher the what drives the behavior, and history behind the "who", I have looked at TH's recorded arrests in Oregon, and have found the following:

She has records with the following listed as "OFFENSE DATES"

9-20-1998 (SHOULD BE 1988)      4-15-1990        8-20-1991    9-15-1995      1-23-1996     3-6-1996    4-4-2004      7-10-2005       9-21-2008

So, I believe the 2005 was the DUII, and something about illegal burning of leaves at the house  I "think" in 2008.

These are all listed under Terri Horman, Terri Moulton, Terri Lynn Moulton, or Terri Tarver,  all with DOB 3-14-1970. Thats quite the history. 9 arrests. I haven't checked Ecker yet.

EDITED TO CORRECT DATE ABOVE

[Monkey King]

It would be nice to see some real evidence, Kokos.

I've gone around and around, as has everyone on this case. 

Some things just won't go away, like Stenson.

Seriously, taking Terri out of the equation, who had the best opportunity to take Kyron?

[Monkey King]

I am trying to locate a picture of an alleged shed by the soccer field. 

Has anyone seen a photo of this?

Assuming this is at the school soccer field.

From Sept. 2009 Album. (Terri's FB)

That's it Brandi!  Thank you!!

[melancholygirl]

Nurserathett: Aren't several of those traffic citations?  I think I saw her record somewhere on one of these threads (way back when this all first happened).

I'm pretty sure when you get a traffic ticket, it will show up with the rest of your arrest record.  IDK - I'm not a cop, and I don't know any.

[Brandi]

I am trying to locate a picture of an alleged shed by the soccer field. 

Has anyone seen a photo of this?

Assuming this is at the school soccer field.

From Sept. 2009 Album. (Terri's FB)

That's it Brandi!  Thank you!!

     

[Kokos Cat]

I am trying to locate a picture of an alleged shed by the soccer field. 

Has anyone seen a photo of this?

I see I am seriously behind the eight ball, here!  I was going to suggest looking here:

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Kyron%20Horman%20%20-OR-/

Or, Terri's FB where I saw tons of soccer photos... and viola! The answer has already appeared! 

Still, wanted to give you all that link for cranky, tons and tons of pics in there....

[nurseratchett]

Nurserathett: Aren't several of those traffic citations?  I think I saw her record somewhere on one of these threads (way back when this all first happened).

I'm pretty sure when you get a traffic ticket, it will show up with the rest of your arrest record.  IDK - I'm not a cop, and I don't know any.

That is exactly what I was hoping someone could tell me. They don't say exactly what they are, only listed as "Drug and Alcohol
OR (OR again means OREGON) Unspecified Offense" except the last one states specifcally for the illegal burning.

[seemeatthebeach]

Kyron was supposed to be going to Desiree and Tony's Friday, June 4th, the day he disappeared.
There are endless things Terri could have told Kyron to get him back to a vehicle to leave. We've already heard he thought he was going to a doctor's appt.
It's possible Terri told Kyron, (that morning on the way to school) a friend, or someone Kyron has met in the past and recognized, was driving to Medford that morning, and has offered to drive Kyron.
Terri could have told Kyron it was a surprise.....he was allowed to miss a day at school, and go to his moms early. Kyron was so excited to go fishing with Tony that Saturday, as planned. (Terri may have told Kyron it was a surprise and not to say anything to anyone, OR just say I have a doctor appt. if his buddies ask)

In this scenario, Kyron would have got into a strangers vehicle willingly.

Just one of my many thoughts.........

[Kokos Cat]

MK & Puzzler,

I admire your great monkey brains and normally I would agree with you.

However, with all due respect, I respectfully disagree for this reason:

TERRY KEPT POINTING THE FINGER AT THE SCHOOL.

Now, I'm NOT saying the school is not partly responsible.  I'm too much of a child advocate to ever say that.  But, it's like Deenie's reference to Melissa Huckaby's yelling about her "suitcase" in the sad case of Sandra Cantu. 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8547.800

Of course, for this theory to work you have to believe that Terri Horman had some involvement in Kyron's disappearance. 

In my gut, I have always believed that TH is somehow involved, even if not directly responsible.  She knows something, and has used the school situation from the beginning as the perfect alibi or to deflect attention and responsibility away from herself, IMO.  It bought her a few precious hours and she was totally justified in pointing the finger at the school.  Parents were terrified and outraged, as they should have been.  And, I'm sure she was a sympathetic character, for a while. 

Then, I believe either Kaine and/or LE turned up the heat.... they knew she knew something... and so their statements that she was not "cooperating"  were totally accurate.  She was not telling them everything. 
 


 

Koko's - one of the reasons I keep jumping on and off the fence on Terri is that I keep going back to why LE has been on her so much...what we've been told is that there is a period of time that is in question - a question on her LDT that came up deceptive.

I think its a good possibility that the "deception" was something she didn't want Kaine to know about (maybe meeting another man during that time) or that she didn't want LE to know (maybe selling drugs).

When I look at it that way...that Terri was doing something she didn't want Kaine/LE to know about...the it makes sense that she keeps pointing the finger at the school.

Let's face it: Kyron went missing from the school.  LE does not know who took Kyron or that person would be arrested.  With no one being arrested, that means that out of all the people there that day, no one saw Kyron leave the school with anyone.

Does that mean Kyron left with someone so familiar to the school employees that it registered with no one (like another school employee)?

Does that mean that Kyron didn't leave immediately, but was whisked into a room when no one was looking and taken from school afer the science fair was over, classes started and everyone was in their rooms?

Dear Puzzler,

I agree with all of this.   I would just amend your post with further questions and speculation that are JMO (helpful huh?) 
 

The missing time/discrepancy:

QUESTION:
   Puzzler, I know you have intensely researched this.  Would you mind recapping for us the the time/chain of events and what we know and don't know? I understand this is probably totally redundant but it could help so much.  Also, could we include in that any possible TH sightings (the white truck pulling into the driveway on -- where was that?  Logie Trail Road?) and witness accounts (car chase on the island) and also:  cell phone pings on the island?

No arrests

1.)  a.)  I'm wondering if they need a body to make an arrest?  Or, to find Kyron alive in case he was "just" abducted?

b.)  Or, do they "just" have to put together a rock-solid case so it doesn't fall apart in court?  But how can they do this without knowing what happened to him?

2.)  What do you think about my theory that LE was hoping TH (or someone else) would talk if it appeared that she was a person of interest?   

Regarding Kyron being stashed

QUESTION:

Does anyone know if Harry Oakes searched INSIDE the school?

   I know he searched all around the outside, I'm pretty sure anyway.   I know the only death alerts he's gotten were not at the school.  So, that means when Kyron left the school and was stashed anywhere on or near school grounds, he was alive.

I hope this is helpful and not just annoying as Hell.

TIA! 

 

K. Cat