Natalee Case Discussion #848 9/25/2010 - 10/7/10

[Anna]

Yeah, Neither Tim nor TJ have apoligized or asked to be forgiven.  And it's Beth whom they have harmed.

It would be different if this had happened soon after Natalee disappeared when there was even a ghost of a chance of any shred of an investigation but after 5.5 years, c'mon! 

Don't even ask anybody to fall for that routine any more.

[Tamikosmom]

I would like to thank private eye for visiting and posting, and I understand what he's saying.

From the get-go, Tim has been one of those good guys with some serious warts and wrinkles. I think we've all known that. Well, at least, that's my opinion.

Someone (Frank?) (Deetch?) commented that all of this about Tim is a distraction. I agree.

Beth is a smart woman, stays focused, always on a mission. I doubt she is expending energy on stupid comments from a has-been's web radio show.

I don't agree.

Tim Miller is a very important piece of the puzzle if there is even a remote chance that Natalee can be returned to her family ... to her country.

Also Tim Miller is a very important piece of the puzzle if there is even a remote chance that a measure of justice will prevail for Natalee Holloway.  Paulus' enfamous words "No Body; No Case" will not longer apply.

I hope you are having a good day msmarple.

 

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Tim got me madder than a cat in hissy fit with a crocheted tail!

I don't go worked up so easily... so when I get there... it takes awhile

for me to come down from the ledge.

I think someone should pick that ol' boy up by the seat of his pants (there's plenty of loose material there) and stick him in a corner with his nose in it for a bit. He needs to think about the hurtful things he said on Steph's show. If he truthfully believes some of the crap he said about Beth and Natalee... he's not the man I thought he was.

One thing about forgiving people.

Have they even sincerely asked to be forgiven?

If the answer is no... they don't even want it.

Don't waste your time and energy.

 

[texasmom]

Maybe I am out of line, but I think Tim should make a public apology for things he said on
Steph Watts show.  I am still furious with Tim.
 
I don't care about Steph Watts.  He can just crawl back under the rock he came from and
stay there.

IMO you're not out of line at all Magnolia.  He said all those things publicly and I agree that's how he should apologize too. 

But I won't hold my breathe waiting for it to happen.

And I totally agree about Steph Watts! 

 

[texasmom]

Maybe I am out of line, but I think Tim should make a public apology for things he said on
Steph Watts show.  I am still furious with Tim.
 
I don't care about Steph Watts.  He can just crawl back under the rock he came from and
stay there.

I am far behind and haven't caught up but wanted to say you are not out of line Magnolia.  If he can say those things about Beth in public he can also be a man apologize to Beth in public.

How about an apology on Dana's show rather than that idiot Steph Watts show.

HOW ABOUT CLEARING UP HIS COMMENTS.

 

[texasmom]

Tim got me madder than a cat in hissy fit with a crocheted tail!

I don't go worked up so easily... so when I get there... it takes awhile

for me to come down from the ledge.

I think someone should pick that ol' boy up by the seat of his pants (there's plenty of loose material there) and stick him in a corner with his nose in it for a bit. He needs to think about the hurtful things he said on Steph's show. If he truthfully believes some of the crap he said about Beth and Natalee... he's not the man I thought he was.

One thing about forgiving people.

Have they even sincerely asked to be forgiven?

If the answer is no... they don't even want it.

Don't waste your time and energy.

 

[Bearlyhere]

Good morning Sis!

Hope you have a great day!   


And hopefully today, we will be one day closer to Justice for Natalee and Stephany!
 

We are one day closer.

JFNaS!!!

 

[carpe noctem]

To the cheekfully challenged:

Gonna put a hook in it and string ya up, Mr. Billy Ray Board Boodie!


Say you are sorry.

[Tamikosmom]

private eye

Thank you for your response.

I am not justifying Kyle's silence in regards to the happenings encompassing the trap but ... he had only about a month's crash course from the Natalee's Freebirds regarding the corrupt Aruban investigation that had prevented justice from prevailing.  In other words ... not justifying but Kyle had second thought about doing right when it came to risking his entire career by disregarding a  confidentiality agreement and exposing the John Silvetti betrayal.

However ... Tim Miller has to be held to a higher degree of accountability than Kyle Kingman when loyalties were compromised in regards to respective betrayals ... in regards to respective ongoing professional relationships with John Silvetti.

At the time ... Tim Miller had over a 2 1/2 years relationship/ connection/ history with Beth and Dave.  He knew where it was at from personal experiences in regards to the nightmare that Aruban authorities had put Natalee's parents through.  Tim had claimed that Natalee's family was his family.  Tim had  claimed that Natalee was like a daughter to him.

Think about it.  Exposing the betrayal would have made Tim a hero.  However ... a line was drawn in the sand when Tim chose to remained silent regarding what he observed ... when he established a professional relationship with the betrayer ... a relationship which is still ongoing.  In other words ... Tim turned his back on Natalee.  Tim turned his back on Natalee's family.  IMO

private eye ... according to Kyle Kingman ... Natalee's remains may have been in that trap ... I cannot let that go.


Janet

++++++

<snipped>

I am not blaming Kyle either. I do think he was duped, and I think he realizes it now. And I totally agree that Tim was wrong in these comments. Completely wrong. But I think Dave considers him a friend, and Beth still considers him a friend, so despite me not understanding the dynamics of their relationships, I can forgive him. But it took me a week????????? And I enjoyed reading the thrashings he got, but I know that Beth will be forever indebted to him, because he, like all at this site, were her wings when her feet couldn't carry her. Literally. I don't think you can comprehend how much everyones support helped Beth. And for that, I will owe you for the rest of my life.

private eye

We will have to agree to disagree.  I am a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words regarding the happenings encompassing the trap.  Therefore ... I am believer that Tim Miller ... according to Kyle Kingman's own words ... was aware that the happenings encompassing the trap were not furthering the cause of justice for Natalee or the cause of closure for her family.

I hold both these men accountable for becoming participants in the Aruban cover up that has prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005 ... participants through their respective silences which came with a price.  However ... for the reasons stated ... I do hold Tim Miller accountable to a great degree.

Just clarifying friend.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

To the cheekfully challenged:

Gonna put a hook in it and string ya up, Mr. Billy Ray Board Boodie!


Say you are sorry.

Carpe

Was it confirmed that Tim Miller has a girlfriend?

 

Janet

[carpe noctem]

Janet - It has not been confirmed as far as I am concerned yet.


Sometimes when people get mad they say a lot of things.

Who knows? I don't.

[Tamikosmom]

Prtivate Eye!! We think of you often and it is certainly great to hear from you! I of course understand and respect your feelings about Tim. I think most of us thought long and hard before coming back at Tim about his recent comments. Everyone here has always had such a high esteem and appreciation for all Tim has done for Natalee as well as his countless efforts for ALL missing family members. I don't think anyone here is taking that lightly and have carefully weighed that.

For me, it all goes back to the Persistence. I have not changed my belief that something very hinky was going on. I'm afraid Tim was not just "duped" -- he was complicit.

The Persistence was a strange deal, but I thought Tim was just aboard for the ride so to speak, and not as the Captain or in the know. Tim called Beth almost in tears he was so excited the night before the recovery. He is not that smooth of an operator to have faked his sincerity. Does he know more now? Only he knows that, and by his silence I assume he doesn't. Especially since Kyle seems to not know what happened as well. But something happened, I agree.

Wreck ... I agree!

private eye ... I contend that Tim Miller was on the side of justice for Natalee and closure for the family at the time the trap was discovered ... at the time of the visual dive ... at the time of Tim's departure from the ship.  Kyle Kingman's own words revealed that both he and Tim were troubled in regards to the happenings encompassing the trap.

However ... at some period in time ... it appears that both Kyle and Tim's respective silence was payed forward by the one who afforded the Aruban divers unchallenged possession of what may have been Natalee Holloways remains.

Janet

++++++

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[Tamikosmom]

Janet - It has not been confirmed as far as I am concerned yet.


Sometimes when people get mad they say a lot of things.

Who knows? I don't.

Thanks Carpe.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Pita - GoldMonkey

Luke 23:35
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."  

The forgiveness that our Savior was refering to as He hung from the Cross at Calvary was a conditional forgiveness.  As far as the Roman soldiers were concerned ... Jesus was being crucified for proclaiming that He was God ... a crime under Roman law.  The soldiers had no idea that Jesus was proclaiming the truth ... the truth that He was God.

The Scriptures are not difficult to comprehend ... the commandments within are not contradictory.  Common sense prevails.

When Tim Miller and Kyle Kingsman are considered ... both men know their respective silences regarding the happenings encompasses the trap are betrayals to Natalee and her family.  Forgiveness implies sincere repentance.

IMO

[robots]

Tim Miller DOES NOT owe me an apology,  as i dont beieve in vicarious redemption, but he sure as hell owes Beth one. 

follow the money   it always leads to the end and reveals the truth, even though it may not be where you want to end up.

but i sure can request that he asks for forgiveness from Beth


people makes mistakes all the time, i personally have made a couple in my life.

 It is what you do to repair it that counts

[Sharon/Tx]

I admire Beth and Dave for even getting out of bed in the morning.  It's getting harder and harder for me to forgive all of the betrayals over the past 5 years to Natalee and her family. I will try harder to forgive and be a better person but I will never forget.

[Bearlyhere]

Tim got me madder than a cat in hissy fit with a crocheted tail!

I don't go worked up so easily... so when I get there... it takes awhile

for me to come down from the ledge.

I think someone should pick that ol' boy up by the seat of his pants (there's plenty of loose material there) and stick him in a corner with his nose in it for a bit. He needs to think about the hurtful things he said on Steph's show. If he truthfully believes some of the crap he said about Beth and Natalee... he's not the man I thought he was.

One thing about forgiving people.

Have they even sincerely asked to be forgiven?

If the answer is no... they don't even want it.

Don't waste your time and energy.

I agree about that, Carpe.  That is why I never believed in grabbing a kid and making him apologize to another kid.  I always wanted my child to understand and then make a sincere apology.  There is no benefit to anyone from an insincere apology and making someone do something makes them resent it, you, and the person who was wronged in the first place.

[robots]

dont worry 

GRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr some things are just plain old UNFORGIVEABLE and most things involved in this NIGHTMARE fit the criteria as previously mentioned


but, thats just me 

[texasmom]

To the cheekfully challenged:

Gonna put a hook in it and string ya up, Mr. Billy Ray Board Boodie!


Say you are sorry.

 

[texasmom]

If Sandy Leiva's still here, maybe she can help with this one.  TIA

http://www.diario.aw/2010/09/aruba-acusa-y-mancha-pa-7-caso-pa-cu-traficacion-di-hende-muhe-den-prostitucion/

Papiamentu translation:

aruba acusa y mancha before 7 caso before cu traficacion by person muhe in prostitucion

publication: tuesday, 28 september 2010.

categoria: general

oranjestad (aan)— diabierna ultimo did take lugar the seminario bao by auspicio by banco central before give informacion encuanto the framework before cu one ley cu will bay regula the inversionnan internacional. during the presentacion by sra. helen halton ela shock the publico present instant cu ela divulga cu during the year here alone aruba owing to wordo aserca before instancianan internacional in 7 various caso before cu traficacion by person muher before cu prostitucion. this is condenabel y alarming y is damage name by aruba internacionalmente while cu gobierno is haci quite attempt before mehora the imagen by aruba. the is conoci cu have quite more caso by adiccion y is seems cu the struggle contra by narco trafico or business ilicito is perdi, mirando cu the cantidad by usadornan owing to aumenta drasticamente.

sra. helen halton haci one apelacion serca esnan present before denuncia type by crimen so.

can corda cu not mucho time behind police owing to haci one inval in one establicimento at san nicolaas at where cu one such m. owing to wordo acusa by traficacion by person muher in the base world by prostitucion.

the business here cu is opera bao by nose by police at where cu acolyte by the cuerpo policial here was funciona because uitsmijter. algo cu is by condena at where cu one funcionario by police is presta her self before haci type by trabaonan here before necesidad by coin.

cu the informacion here also is mancha name by aruba because country integro in the market internacional financiero y is stroba the funcionamento or the oportunidad before aruba diversifica her economia before ascend plaza internacional.

in this cu leynan by superivision, regulacion y sanction at esnan cu is perhudica or do not funciona manner debt being. for example in give inforacion incorecto or incomplete y haci hazañanan in inversionnan cu is perhudica the cliente or not hang on to cuenta debido cu the riesgonan before cu the capital by clientenan.

daily paper did take contacto cu ministerio publico at where cu not have mucho informacion or do not compronde mucho by the aciusacionnan akin owing to where cu during 7 oportunidad instancianan internacional owing to ask aruba before haci investigacion in traficacion by y cu person.

is corda cu year happen had one caso by traficacion cu person, mensen smokkel at where cu one boat owing to stick on one rif serca by the refineria. y also the caso by foxy lady at where cu had indicacionnan strong cu had person muhe teni contra by they boluntad relaciona cu prostitucion.

also can corda cu joran van der sloot owing to wordo sospecha by traficacion by person at thailandia at where cu the was be willing to owing to atrae child muhernan thailandes before bay in prostitucion at the netherlands.