Natalee Case Discussion #848 9/25/2010 - 10/7/10

[wreck]

Is there anyway that someone else could have used Private Eye's account here to post
without Private Eye's knowledge?

I am not very smart about such things, but I saw someone from Aruba using a proxy of
Conway, Arkansas.  That seemed strange to me.

It is also strange that SS and Pita, the dark lard's minions, were so quick to praise the posts
and defend Tim Miller.

So much in those posts singing the praises of Dave and Tim and only that he "bet" Tim
had apologized to Beth.

I think something is fishy.

I believe it was the real Private Eye posting I just think he is more forgiving than some of us.  He is correct that Tim Miller's words mean little to Beth in the big picture.  I'm sure Beth will look beyond much of what was said knowing that sometimes Tim speaks before he thinks.

I think that was the real private eye as well. It sounded just like him. He has always been on the "forgiving" side. (I think both Dave's and Beth's famlies have been far too forgiving -but, that's just me).

[klaasend]

It doesn't matter to me if Tim says he's sorry or not. I've has a few issues with his judgement for quite a while now, the last straw was the Low Watt show. I think that his organization has been harmed by his lapses in judgement. The Donna Brock issue pizzed me off. Before that, when they were in Orlando, I used to follow the comments on Fox Orlando blog. There were too many peeps who saw Tim in his cups and with a gf in tow. Fine, a man is entitled to his private life ( and his private demons )  but he is a public figure who was in the spotlight in Orlando and he was there conducting a search and he could have kept his drinking and the gf at home. He is the face of TES and if he can't keep his act together then the board of directors should ask him to step down. before he drags the organization any further down with him. He's been carrying on quite badly for a couple of years and isn't it time for him to sober up ? Sorry if I am sounding harsh, I am aware of the loss of his daughter, but I don't think he is competent to be doing anything except trying to get some help for himself. 

This pretty well reflects my thoughts as well.  Isn't that Donna Brock facing a prison sentence now? 

I guess I just thought Tim was a different kind of person than he has turned out to be.

I could be wrong but I think she has already been sentanced to 15 years.  Guess Tim isn't such a good judge of character.

[MuffyBee]

O/T I ever saw this one before
My sources tell me that this grand gesture is aimed at Tim Miller, I do not know if that is true. Off Air people tend to say a great deal about Tim Miller, none of which are flattering, On Air, they tend to soften their approach. Miller has a formidable ‘war chest’ plus a huge following, to strike against him would take a great deal of guts.

I wonder if Donna Brock has the guts?

Good morning Blonde,  That pic of Donna was posted here at Scared Monkeys before.  And right now, Donna Brock is in jail serving 15 years minimum (no time off for good behavior) in a Florida prison on a drug charge so who knows what she would and wouldn't say....  
Link to article about Donna Brock's sentencing:
http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2010-09-01/woman-haleigh-case-gets-15-years
(snip)
"You made a choice, and it was a bad choice," Berger said. She said under state guidelines she could not sentence Brock to less that 15 years despite Brock's lack of a criminal record, years of volunteer work and testimony of two people who appealed for leniency.

Brock was arrested with Croslin in January days after an undercover officer bought 155 oxycodone pills from the pair at a St. Johns County truck stop."
(snip)

BUMP

[thecuz]

just remember.....you can forgive but not forget....and resentment can brew!
which, when you think about it....really is not good for your health!
love you guys!

[klaasend]

just remember.....you can forgive but not forget....and resentment can brew!
which, when you think about it....really is not good for your health!
love you guys!

Yes Cuz, so true.

[Magnolia]

I could be wrong...and really have no way of knowing..., but I don't think Beth has forgiven Joran
for what he did to Natalee, and she certainly hasn't forgotten.

Reports said that Beth stated that she had "no hate in her heart" for him.  That is different to
forgiving and forgetting  IMO

I don't have hate in my heart for Tim Miller, but that doesn't mean that I don't think he is a POS,
who had no business saying the things he did about Beth.
Tim may have done some good things in the past, but I think those days are over.  JMO

[sharon]

just remember.....you can forgive but not forget....and resentment can brew!
which, when you think about it....really is not good for your health!
love you guys!

{{{hugs}}}

[klaasend]

I could be wrong...and really have no way of knowing..., but I don't think Beth has forgiven Joran
for what he did to Natalee, and she certainly hasn't forgotten.

Reports said that Beth stated that she had "no hate in her heart" for him.  That is different to
forgiving and forgetting  IMO

I don't have hate in my heart for Tim Miller, but that doesn't mean that I don't think he is a POS,
who had no business saying the things he did about Beth.
Tim may have done some good things in the past, but I think those days are over.  JMO

I'm not as forgiving as some.  I could forgive Tim Miller and some others for the words they say but I would NEVER forgive Joran. 

[Magnolia]

I could be wrong...and really have no way of knowing..., but I don't think Beth has forgiven Joran
for what he did to Natalee, and she certainly hasn't forgotten.

Reports said that Beth stated that she had "no hate in her heart" for him.  That is different to
forgiving and forgetting  IMO

I don't have hate in my heart for Tim Miller, but that doesn't mean that I don't think he is a POS,
who had no business saying the things he did about Beth.
Tim may have done some good things in the past, but I think those days are over.  JMO

I'm not as forgiving as some.  I could forgive Tim Miller and some others for the words they say but I would NEVER forgive Joran. 

Here's the deal.  It isn't Tim Miller's job to criticise Beth or any other parent.  His self appointed job
is to search for the missing.  He hasn't been elected judge and jury.

[klaasend]

I could be wrong...and really have no way of knowing..., but I don't think Beth has forgiven Joran
for what he did to Natalee, and she certainly hasn't forgotten.

Reports said that Beth stated that she had "no hate in her heart" for him.  That is different to
forgiving and forgetting  IMO

I don't have hate in my heart for Tim Miller, but that doesn't mean that I don't think he is a POS,
who had no business saying the things he did about Beth.
Tim may have done some good things in the past, but I think those days are over.  JMO

I'm not as forgiving as some.  I could forgive Tim Miller and some others for the words they say but I would NEVER forgive Joran. 

Here's the deal.  It isn't Tim Miller's job to criticise Beth or any other parent.  His self appointed job
is to search for the missing.  He hasn't been elected judge and jury.

Magnolia - I absolutely agree 100%.  I'm just saying I could see how those closest to Natalee have learned to look past peoples diarrhea of the mouth when holding onto anger of those (like Tim Miller) won't bring Natalee back.

[Kermit]

The Persistence was a strange deal, but I thought Tim was just aboard for the ride so to speak, and not as the Captain or in the know. Tim called Beth almost in tears he was so excited the night before the recovery. He is not that smooth of an operator to have faked his sincerity. Does he know more now? Only he knows that, and by his silence I assume he doesn't. Especially since Kyle seems to not know what happened as well. But something happened, I agree.

Personally, forgiveness is not the issue with Tim Miller. His lack of professionalism and competence is questionable and I think that is what the fine Monkey's have questioned not just with this last fiasco of Tim's blundering mouth bashing Beth! It's been many, many acts that have been seen as betrayal.

An honest man would have stood up to his mistakes and publically come forward to state an apology. Because it's not just Beth he hurts by his words, but as you can see he hurt a lot of people. He's a PR nightmare.

Truthfully - people show you who they are.

Be damned with forgiveness, I just want the man to act like a man and stand up for what is the truth and what is right and be a professional. Stop all the other crapola cuz kermit ain't buying it.

[texasmom]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/beth-holloway-announces-mayday360-104001238.html

Beth Holloway Announces Mayday360
 
 
Travel and Safety Assistance for Americans Traveling Abroad

NEW YORK, Sept. 29 /PRNewswire/ -- Travel safety educator Beth Holloway today announced the launch of Mayday360, the first inexpensive travel and safety assistance service for Americans traveling abroad. Mayday360 has a global team of high level safety and travel experts from Investigative Management Group, a leader in corporate and individual security, on call 24/7 to help travelers and their families navigate the maze of international law and local security issues in case of emergency.

Holloway, whose daughter Natalee went missing in Aruba five years ago, has firsthand experience dealing with an international emergency.  "Your initial instinct is how to physically get to that destination," Holloway said. "You reach for the phone to dial 911, but that can't help you. What you need to do is reach local law enforcement, but you don't know who and how?  Mayday360 is the fast, practical answer." 

"In the critical few days after Natalee went missing, I needed immediate access to people with influence and experience to ensure that everything that could be done was happening quickly," said Holloway. "Tragically, I didn't have the help I needed.  That's why I co-founded Mayday 360."

For a yearly fee starting at $99, Mayday360 members will receive an international collect call number to connect to a security professional who can offer support, advice and information.  Members will also have access to a secure travel document and data storage service to enable quick replacement of lost or stolen documents, and they will receive customized travel advisories and safety information. Membership also includes a customized iPhone application that members can use to send their global location and emergency contact information to Mayday 360 and to reach the Emergency Helpline.  When needed, for additional fees, personnel from Mayday360's global network of 500 security experts can be deployed anywhere in the world to provide on-the-ground assistance.   


SOURCE Mayday360

[Kermit]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/beth-holloway-announces-mayday360-104001238.html

Beth Holloway Announces Mayday360
 
 
Travel and Safety Assistance for Americans Traveling Abroad

NEW YORK, Sept. 29 /PRNewswire/ -- Travel safety educator Beth Holloway today announced the launch of Mayday360, the first inexpensive travel and safety assistance service for Americans traveling abroad. Mayday360 has a global team of high level safety and travel experts from Investigative Management Group, a leader in corporate and individual security, on call 24/7 to help travelers and their families navigate the maze of international law and local security issues in case of emergency.

Holloway, whose daughter Natalee went missing in Aruba five years ago, has firsthand experience dealing with an international emergency.  "Your initial instinct is how to physically get to that destination," Holloway said. "You reach for the phone to dial 911, but that can't help you. What you need to do is reach local law enforcement, but you don't know who and how?  Mayday360 is the fast, practical answer." 

"In the critical few days after Natalee went missing, I needed immediate access to people with influence and experience to ensure that everything that could be done was happening quickly," said Holloway. "Tragically, I didn't have the help I needed.  That's why I co-founded Mayday 360."

For a yearly fee starting at $99, Mayday360 members will receive an international collect call number to connect to a security professional who can offer support, advice and information.  Members will also have access to a secure travel document and data storage service to enable quick replacement of lost or stolen documents, and they will receive customized travel advisories and safety information. Membership also includes a customized iPhone application that members can use to send their global location and emergency contact information to Mayday 360 and to reach the Emergency Helpline.  When needed, for additional fees, personnel from Mayday360's global network of 500 security experts can be deployed anywhere in the world to provide on-the-ground assistance.   


SOURCE Mayday360

Corporations need to sign up for this service. Especially with overseas business travel being so in demand now.

[Tamikosmom]

I am enraged at the bashing of Beth Holloway by Tim Miller but in my opinion it is not the issue.  It is nothing but a distraction from the real issue pertaining to Tim ... the happenings encompassing the Persistence betrayal ... the betrayal that Tim was privy to but has chosen to remain silent while embracing an ongoing professional relationship with the enemy.

++++++

Tim Miller Knows!

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.  He couldn't tell by his own admission
 
Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  By Tim's (Trahan) own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).
 
Kyle Kingman:  John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word when they said on Dec 30th that it was nothing case relevant.

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess.

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys


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http://texasequusearch.org/

[texasmom]

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/beth-holloway-announces-mayday360-104001238.html

Beth Holloway Announces Mayday360
 
 
Travel and Safety Assistance for Americans Traveling Abroad

NEW YORK, Sept. 29 /PRNewswire/ -- Travel safety educator Beth Holloway today announced the launch of Mayday360, the first inexpensive travel and safety assistance service for Americans traveling abroad. Mayday360 has a global team of high level safety and travel experts from Investigative Management Group, a leader in corporate and individual security, on call 24/7 to help travelers and their families navigate the maze of international law and local security issues in case of emergency.

Holloway, whose daughter Natalee went missing in Aruba five years ago, has firsthand experience dealing with an international emergency.  "Your initial instinct is how to physically get to that destination," Holloway said. "You reach for the phone to dial 911, but that can't help you. What you need to do is reach local law enforcement, but you don't know who and how?  Mayday360 is the fast, practical answer." 

"In the critical few days after Natalee went missing, I needed immediate access to people with influence and experience to ensure that everything that could be done was happening quickly," said Holloway. "Tragically, I didn't have the help I needed.  That's why I co-founded Mayday 360."

For a yearly fee starting at $99, Mayday360 members will receive an international collect call number to connect to a security professional who can offer support, advice and information.  Members will also have access to a secure travel document and data storage service to enable quick replacement of lost or stolen documents, and they will receive customized travel advisories and safety information. Membership also includes a customized iPhone application that members can use to send their global location and emergency contact information to Mayday 360 and to reach the Emergency Helpline.  When needed, for additional fees, personnel from Mayday360's global network of 500 security experts can be deployed anywhere in the world to provide on-the-ground assistance.   

SOURCE Mayday360

Corporations need to sign up for this service. Especially with overseas business travel being so in demand now.

I agree!  

[Magnolia]

Do you suppose that Tim Miller is trying to follow the example of Joran Van der Sloot,
and make so many verbal blunders that nothing he says can be considered creditable?

[texasmom]

Maybe it's just me but I don't agree at all with the association of Jesus' words from the cross, to this situation with Tim Miller.  As much as I've thought about it and tried to find a reason for it to be appropriate, I just don't see it.  It actually made me cringe when I first read that.  JMO

 

[San]

I was angry at what Tim said about Beth.  I thought it was uncalled for especially coming from him.  Tim Miller of all people should have known Beth's determination to find the truth.

I don't go to bed saying boy that Tim Miller is a POS.  It's just that what he said changed my opinion of him.

Tim Miller won't make me sick at what he said.  There are worse things in life that make me sick than Tim Miller's words.  His words were a disappointment to me because I held him at a different level that's all.

When you break the trust it is hard to earn back.

Live and Learn.  We can all move forward and hopefully people learned some lessons.

[Tamikosmom]

<snipped>

It is never too late to seek forgiveness.  However ... Tim must first bow with genuine repentence ... reveal all to Beth and Dave and ... reveal all to the FBI ... if he desires forgiveness ... forgiveness from Natalee's family  ... forgiveness from those who prayerfully and monetarily supported TES in this venture and ... above all ... forgiveness from God.  There will be personal consequences but ...  the burden which Tim has carried for over 2 1/2 years will have been lifted and ... the truth would prevail..

Private Eye ... the line was drawn in the sand 2000 years ago.  Repentance and forgiveness is a packaged deal.  If we desire our Savior to forgive the sins that we commit against His Holy Name ... genuine repentance is where is is at.

+++++ 

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.


A Reminder for Tim

Heli Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 8:30 pm

Dana Pretzer
July 20, 2006

Tim Miller:  we never received a grant in our life, we've tried to be self sufficient, we get donations, we have fund raisers. We never, ever ask for money from a family member, we've never asked for money from LE, we won't accept money from family members.

Somehow or another, God has always blessed us to keep our doors open, to make it to the next search.  Before we start a search we always start with a prayer... I'm only the founder of TES, God is our leader and that's why we have the success we have.

http://refugeesunleashed.net/about3669.html

THE ISSUE OF FORGIVENESS

[Tamikosmom]

Pita - GoldMonkey

Luke 23:35
Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."  

The forgiveness that our Savior was refering to as He hung from the Cross at Calvary was a conditional forgiveness.  As far as the Roman soldiers were concerned ... Jesus was being crucified for proclaiming that He was God ... a crime under Roman law.  The soldiers had no idea that Jesus was proclaiming the truth ... the truth that He was God.

The Scriptures are not difficult to comprehend ... the commandments within are not contradictory.  Common sense prevails.

When Tim Miller and Kyle Kingsman are considered ... both men know their respective silences regarding the happenings encompasses the trap are betrayals to Natalee and her family.  Forgiveness implies sincere repentance.

IMO

THE ISSUE OF FORGIVENESS