Natalee Case Discussion #848 9/25/2010 - 10/7/10

[Tamikosmom]

I don't know about Beth, but when I saw pictures of Joran living it up in the prison in Peru,
and Anita getting paid for interviews and flinging around the "Call me Hootie" poster, it made
me angry for a week.  I can only imagine how Beth must have felt.

We know that she knew about the Persistence and the discoveries that were ignored.
The Freebirds and Kermit told her.  Beth sat on the information and had not used it.

Maybe Beth finally decided to take action and called Peter to help her bring the facts
to the world.  I suspect a lot of people are afraid that is what has happened.
Fear is a strange emotion and can cause a lot of different reactions in people.

I hope that Beth finally got angry enough and that her revenge is sweet, even if she has
forgiven those responsible.

I think the Kalpoes said something in their deposition leading Beth to Peru and then Aruba and the Prosecutor.

Michael Griffith on Nancy Grace show said the U.S. will charge Joran because the Kalpoe brothers are about to turn "State's evidence".

I wonder how Michael Griffith knows?

Janet

++++++

JOY BEHAR SHOW
Van Der Sloot`s Mom Speaks
Aired June 23, 2010 - 21:00:00   ET

MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY:   But there is some -- there is some evidence though. This testimony of the Kalpoe brothers, Deepak and other, whey were with him. And they`re ready to turn state`s evidence.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/23/joy.01.html

[Buckeye]

I don't know about Beth, but when I saw pictures of Joran living it up in the prison in Peru,
and Anita getting paid for interviews and flinging around the "Call me Hootie" poster, it made
me angry for a week.  I can only imagine how Beth must have felt.

We know that she knew about the Persistence and the discoveries that were ignored.
The Freebirds and Kermit told her.  Beth sat on the information and had not used it.

Maybe Beth finally decided to take action and called Peter to help her bring the facts
to the world.  I suspect a lot of people are afraid that is what has happened.
Fear is a strange emotion and can cause a lot of different reactions in people.

I hope that Beth finally got angry enough and that her revenge is sweet, even if she has
forgiven those responsible.

I think the Kalpoes said something in their deposition leading Beth to Peru and then Aruba and the Prosecutor.

Buckeye

Why would the Kalpoes reveal anything incriminating in their dispositions?  It would not be beneficial in regards to the defamation lawsuit and ... it would not be to their beneficial when those in Aruba ... who have prevented justice from prevailing for over five years ... are considered.

Janet

+++++


THE THREAT

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 197: There is apparently no amount of money in the world that can get us the answer to what happened to Natalee. When I asked an Aruban attorney about this, his response was chilling: “The threat is bigger than the money,” he says. The Threat. That dark influence. The evil that nothing and no one can pierce.


Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 117: I also find it hard to believe that with all of the press that Natalee’s disapppearance has attracted, there is not one person anywhere who knows what happened to her. I can only surmise that those who do know something are too afraid to come forward. Maybe there would be a price to pay if they tell, a price so high and so threatening that not even the $1,000,000 reward money is enough of an enticement for someone to bring us the truth.

Janet

I am not an attorney.  It is my understanding that only privileged information can be refused to be disclosed. There is no right to refuse to answer a question, in a deposition. A deposition is part of discovery. The Kalpoes would have had to answer questions.  Discovery can be quite broad.

During the course of the deposition, one attorney or another may object to questions asked. In most jurisdictions, only two types of objections are allowed: The first is to assert a privilege and the second is to object to the form of the question asked. Objections to form are frequently used to signal the witness to be careful in answering the question. All other objections, in particular those involving the rules of evidence, are generally preserved until trial. They need not be made at the deposition. Indeed, in Texas, lawyers were so aggressively using objections to indirectly coach their witnesses on the record that all objections outside of four narrow categories are now prohibited and making such prohibited objections waives all objections to the question or answer at issue. California is the major "outlier" on deposition objections; under the California Civil Discovery Act as enacted in 1957 and heavily revised in 1986, most objections must be given on the record at the deposition (and must be specific as to the objectionable nature of the question or response) or they are permanently waived.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deposition_%28law%29

[Tamikosmom]

Thanks Buckeye.

It will be interesting to see all this plays out.

Janet

[Magnolia]

Aruba doesn't have "states witnesses", or so Arlene told us. Can any information that the Kalpoes give in California be used to prosecute Joran?

[klaasend]

Aruba doesn't have "states witnesses", or so Arlene told us. Can any information that the Kalpoes give in California be used to prosecute Joran?

Possibly pertaining the wire fraud case? 

[Magnolia]

Aruba doesn't have "states witnesses", or so Arlene told us. Can any information that the Kalpoes give in California be used to prosecute Joran?

Possibly pertaining the wire fraud case? 

I think they have Joran dead to right on the wire fraud...with the tapes and all.

I am hoping the Kalpoes might have given information on where Natalee might be....if they know that.

If they gave any information, under oath, I don't see how Aruba could ignore that without looking worse
then they already do.

Aruba has something called "Crown Witness" but the qualification are higher than our States' Witness.

[Buckeye]

Aruba doesn't have "states witnesses", or so Arlene told us. Can any information that the Kalpoes give in California be used to prosecute Joran?

Is Michael Griffith the one that kept insisting that Joran could be prosecuted, for the disappearance, in the US?

[Buckeye]

Found one thing:

(June 14) -- Joran van der Sloot, the young Dutchman charged in the killing of a 21-year-old Peruvian woman, could be indicted by U.S. authorities for the murder of Natalee Holloway, a legal expert tells AOL News.

"In this particular case with van der Sloot, if the Arubans won't do anything with this guy, the U.S. could conceivably -- once he is released in Peru -- extradite him back to the states and prosecute him for Holloway's murder," says Michael Griffith, senior partner at the International Legal Defense Counsel.

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/article/expert-us-could-charge-van-der-sloot-with-holloways-murder/19515801

 

[Magnolia]

Maybe Dr. Phil will offer the Kalpoes a little dab of money to tell where Natalee's remains are.

[Magnolia]

Aruba doesn't have "states witnesses", or so Arlene told us. Can any information that the Kalpoes give in California be used to prosecute Joran?

Is Michael Griffith the one that kept insisting that Joran could be prosecuted, for the disappearance, in the US?

He is the only one I have ever heard talk about that....that I can recall.

[Buckeye]

Aruba doesn't have "states witnesses", or so Arlene told us. Can any information that the Kalpoes give in California be used to prosecute Joran?

Is Michael Griffith the one that kept insisting that Joran could be prosecuted, for the disappearance, in the US?

He is the only one I have ever heard talk about that....that I can recall.

Me too....except maybe Art Wood, early on, talking about getting the case file and then prosecuting????..maybe?

[Kat_Gram]

I can't see the Kalpoes giving up anything right now, what's in it for them ?
They have never been charged with anything and aren't going to be.
When their lawyer at the time was Kock ? sp, we asked about "'crown witnesses ". ( on a Dana show where their lawyer was a guest) They do exist under Aruban law. If they had ever been charged, it might have happened for a lesser charge. From memory it was a possibility.
...
There are also statutes of limitations on anything that Deepak  / Satish could have been charged with. I don't believe they know where Natalee is. I think they have information about what happened that night and who helped in the cover up. But, they want a big payday from Dr. Phil, so why man up now ?
...
Maybe there was a crumb or two in their statements. It's something to think about. But I don't think Mr. Griffiths knows the details or any details of this case.
...
What I could see the Kalpoes doing is :
SELLING THEIR SOULS FOR A PAYDAY from any Network. It just must pizzle the two of them off that Joran has been raking in the bucks for murdering two girls now and they, the lesser involved persons have been working or whatever on Aruba, can't leave and jet set around like rock stars.

[Buckeye]

Art, let me bring you in.  Hopefully, you can answer this one.  This is about the boycott.  “Isn't there some way to petition the State Department to issue a warning to travelers about the danger of going to Aruba?  How does the American public approach this if they want to do sort of comprehensive effort?  Is there anything the American public can do?”  This is from Phyllis Lisowski—I hope I'm pronouncing her name right—from Prairie Village, Kansas.  Art, is there anything that—can there be some sort of—some massive cry to the State Department?
Advertisement | ad info

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT:  Absolutely.  Absolutely.  There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department.  I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.  I want to tell you there's more circumstantial evidence in this case than there was in the Scott Peterson case.

Secondly, it's very important here, that the Arubans, if they want out of this economic boycott, all they have to do is to invite the FBI in as—to participate in this investigation.  They have never done that.  They have refused to allow FBI access to the investigative reports and evidence in this case.  And if they have nothing to hide, let them invite the FBI in.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/

[Buckeye]

I can't see the Kalpoes giving up anything right now, what's in it for them ?
They have never been charged with anything and aren't going to be.
When their lawyer at the time was Kock ? sp, we asked about "'crown witnesses ". ( on a Dana show where their lawyer was a guest) They do exist under Aruban law. If they had ever been charged, it might have happened for a lesser charge. From memory it was a possibility.
...
There are also statutes of limitations on anything that Deepak  / Satish could have been charged with. I don't believe they know where Natalee is. I think they have information about what happened that night and who helped in the cover up. But, they want a big payday from Dr. Phil, so why man up now ?
...
Maybe there was a crumb or two in their statements. It's something to think about. But I don't think Mr. Griffiths knows the details or any details of this case.
...
What I could see the Kalpoes doing is :
SELLING THEIR SOULS FOR A PAYDAY from any Network. It just must pizzle the two of them off that Joran has been raking in the bucks for murdering two girls now and they, the lesser involved persons have been working or whatever on Aruba, can't leave and jet set around like rock stars.

I don't think they would give up anything.  I do think, if they want to further their civil case, they need to answer questions in their deposition.  There is no 5th amendment right.  Depositions are considered part of discovery.  If they refuse to answer, it could jeopardize their civil case.  The loss of all that money is the incentive to cooperate.

[Magnolia]

Art, let me bring you in.  Hopefully, you can answer this one.  This is about the boycott.  “Isn't there some way to petition the State Department to issue a warning to travelers about the danger of going to Aruba?  How does the American public approach this if they want to do sort of comprehensive effort?  Is there anything the American public can do?”  This is from Phyllis Lisowski—I hope I'm pronouncing her name right—from Prairie Village, Kansas.  Art, is there anything that—can there be some sort of—some massive cry to the State Department?
Advertisement | ad info

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT:  Absolutely.  Absolutely.  There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department.  I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.  I want to tell you there's more circumstantial evidence in this case than there was in the Scott Peterson case.

Secondly, it's very important here, that the Arubans, if they want out of this economic boycott, all they have to do is to invite the FBI in as—to participate in this investigation.  They have never done that.  They have refused to allow FBI access to the investigative reports and evidence in this case.  And if they have nothing to hide, let them invite the FBI in.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/

I read tonight that NL has only been recognizing Crown Witnesses for about 10 years and they
only have 17 people in witness protection.  I can't see that any of that would work without Aruba's
cooperation.  And I don't think they will ever turn over the evidence or case files.

[Buckeye]

A few questions could be:

Did you continue contact with Joran or his family after that night.

Joran has stated you were to give him one million dollars.  Under what circumstances would Joran receive that money?

Did you and Joran plan/conspire to lie or remain quiet to further this case, in the courts?

 

Any information from K2, is more info than from Joran.

[Buckeye]

Art, let me bring you in.  Hopefully, you can answer this one.  This is about the boycott.  “Isn't there some way to petition the State Department to issue a warning to travelers about the danger of going to Aruba?  How does the American public approach this if they want to do sort of comprehensive effort?  Is there anything the American public can do?”  This is from Phyllis Lisowski—I hope I'm pronouncing her name right—from Prairie Village, Kansas.  Art, is there anything that—can there be some sort of—some massive cry to the State Department?
Advertisement | ad info

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT:  Absolutely.  Absolutely.  There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department.  I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.  I want to tell you there's more circumstantial evidence in this case than there was in the Scott Peterson case.

Secondly, it's very important here, that the Arubans, if they want out of this economic boycott, all they have to do is to invite the FBI in as—to participate in this investigation.  They have never done that.  They have refused to allow FBI access to the investigative reports and evidence in this case.  And if they have nothing to hide, let them invite the FBI in.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/

I read tonight that NL has only been recognizing Crown Witnesses for about 10 years and they
only have 17 people in witness protection.  I can't see that any of that would work without Aruba's
cooperation.  And I don't think they will ever turn over the evidence or case files.

Exactly.  Probably the real reason the case remains open.

[Tamikosmom]

Tamikosmom
Lively Case Discussion #656 7/12 - 7/14/2007
« Reply #129 on: July 13, 2007, 01:12:05 AM »

I contend that the Natalee Holloway case will remain open but inactive.  If the case is closed ... under Aruban law ... the case files have to be released to Natalee's family.  The hope of Aruba is that in time the name of "Natalee Holloway" will become a distance memory.

Janet

++++++++

Jug Twitty
On the Record /w Greta
July 6, 2005

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY: I've tried every tactic. I think I've made every policeman, every person working on the case here, you know, mad. But you know, what I have to do as a stepfather to try to get Natalee back.  Well, the way the system works down here, when the case is closed, we will have all that information, and we can release it to the world.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161705,00.html


Art Wood
Dana Petzer Show
July 2, 2006

The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an American citizen there.


Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2006

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1328.msg198353;topicseen#msg198353

[Tamikosmom]

As forewarned ... the Kalpoes' attorneys have failed to adhere to the court's requests time and time again in regards to case documents.  The judge grants extentions but ... fails to thow out the defamation lawsuit as the extention dates come and go without compliance.

Could it be that the Kalpoes' attorneys are working behind the scenes with the court/judge attempting to drop portions of the defamation lawsuit ... portions that imply case document are required by the McGraw attorneys in the defence of their client.

In other words ... will the disputed segment of the McGraw tape become the only issue. 

++++++

The Dropped Portion?

Feb 6, 2008 5:00 am US/Pacific
Former Holloway Suspects Can Sue Dr. Phil

The Kalpoes, who have maintained they had nothing to do with Holloway's disappearance, sued in December 2006, claiming the "Dr. Phil" talk show altered portions of a taped conversation between Deepak Kalpoe and a private investigator to "create false, incriminating, and defamatory statements that the plaintiffs engaged in criminal activity against Natalee Holloway."

The brothers also contend the TV show implied they helped kill Holloway and got rid of her body. Their suit claims defamation, invasion of privacy, emotional distress, fraud, deceit and civil conspiracy.

http://cbs2.com/entertainment/doctor.phil.mcgraw.2.647163.html


A Signed Declaration

Holloway Case: New Kalpoe Documents
Friday, September 14, 2007

JOHN KELLY, FAMILY'S ATTORNEY: I believe David Koch (ph), one of the attorneys for the Kalpoes actually signed a declaration at the court indicating that even if the court ordered the documents be turned over, they were not going to turn them over. ....

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296798,00.html

[billb's daughter]

lawyers for k2 are looking for a back door to sneak out of the Dr. Phil suit...
during depositions they can give up info that leads to evidence that implicates urine in murdering Natalee....and MOST importantly....returning Natalee to her family...that card is probably in play.....
if the info is incriminating enough to lead investigators to Natalee...I can see Dr. Phil crew letting k2 off the hook for many if not all of the fees if a US judge ruled against k2....
there is no urgent need to nail urine for murdering Natalee....Stephany's dad has that covered....along with the Peruvian judicial system...
The leverage is the US charges against urine...lawyers for k2 know if k2 doesn't give up incriminating evidence.....the Dr. Phil case will only go from bad to worst for them....
Beth has a plan......the choke hold is getting tighter....aruba should be scared.......Persistence crew should also pray that k2 cracks.......if k2 blinks....the spotlight may shine brightly on the oil mapping by persistence......