Natalee Case Discussion #848 9/25/2010 - 10/7/10

[billb's daughter]

If Natalee's remains were recovered and sequestered......
Why sequestered? By whom? arubans? for what reasons? to get something from the family? That doesn't make much sense.....to cover up though still makes sense...
Recovered and sequestered by persistence and gang? still doesn't make much sense....
Unless the recovery is a bargaining chip in some way with/for ???
 

If the remains were actually found and recovered before Christmas Eve....and kyle purposely was vague....Did US authorities or persistence take possession of remains/evidence? Remember after kyle spilled the beans that discovery was made and initial ROV dives were made....tim and tim (the diver) left right after and only arubans were left for the supposedly recovery dive on 7 Jan....

What would really be unconscionable....did john s & louis s...recovery Natalee's remains and or evidence....and use it to leverage a profitable outcome for new business with aruba? Is that where Beth and Peter DV  are trying to expose?....That may be tim m. worry....and kyle.....

[wreck]

If Natalee's remains were recovered and sequestered......
Why sequestered? By whom? arubans? for what reasons? to get something from the family? That doesn't make much sense.....to cover up though still makes sense...
Recovered and sequestered by persistence and gang? still doesn't make much sense....
Unless the recovery is a bargaining chip in some way with/for ???
 

If the remains were actually found and recovered before Christmas Eve....and kyle purposely was vague....Did US authorities or persistence take possession of remains/evidence? Remember after kyle spilled the beans that discovery was made and initial ROV dives were made....tim and tim (the diver) left right after and only arubans were left for the supposedly recovery dive on 7 Jan....

What would really be unconscionable....did john s & louis s...recovery Natalee's remains and or evidence....and use it to leverage a profitable outcome for new business with aruba? Is that where Beth and Peter DV  are trying to expose?....That may be tim m. worry....and kyle.....

I think that is exactly what happened. 

[Lifesong]

Well, I hesitate to say this because I know we disagree about it, but what gives me hope is that DeVries and Endemol were interested in buying the ROV footage and Beth is now working with them on a documentary.  Maybe it won't be featured, I don't know of course, but maybe it will.  We know that Schaefer wanted to make money off it so maybe he did sell it to them.  Maybe the truth will come out and spotlight will be back on Aruba to answer for the remains that were found in the trap.  After all, if it wasn't Natalee then there's another family out there wondering what happened to their loved one and they deserve answers too.

That is my hope too, Lifesong.

Which also explains why Tim et al are so upset with Beth.

It does, but honestly Tim should know better.  I can't imagine Beth would bring anyone involved with the actual search into question. 

The fault would be placed squarely on the Aruban authorities that retrieved the contents.  As far as the public knows it was a volunteer search done at great expense and subject to Aruban laws.  Beth will leave it at that, I believe, because at the end of the day, it is Aruba alone that took the remains and never answered for what the testing showed.


JMO and only MO

But wouldn't the ROV footage, that Kyle was peddling around, show that the crew of the Persistence
knew and didn't report their knowlegde to the family or the US authorities?

I don't know, I can see them just avoiding that whole issue.  Having the footage would be the point. 

Listen, I personally do not think that "Aruba alone" is responsible for this complete failure.  Silvetti freaking volunteered - we were told - to perform this search.  Then when he found what he was looking for he just let them take it.  I can not justify it and will never be able to justify it.  At the very least, Trahan (you know - the supposed diver) should have retrieved a sample before the Arubans even got there.

But what's Beth/Peter going to do?  Trash Tim Miller's reputation by publicizing he was sent off the boat because there wasn't room for him AND his extra-marital girlfriend and his drinking was a problem?  I just don't know.

[wreck]

Well, I hesitate to say this because I know we disagree about it, but what gives me hope is that DeVries and Endemol were interested in buying the ROV footage and Beth is now working with them on a documentary.  Maybe it won't be featured, I don't know of course, but maybe it will.  We know that Schaefer wanted to make money off it so maybe he did sell it to them.  Maybe the truth will come out and spotlight will be back on Aruba to answer for the remains that were found in the trap.  After all, if it wasn't Natalee then there's another family out there wondering what happened to their loved one and they deserve answers too.

That is my hope too, Lifesong.

Which also explains why Tim et al are so upset with Beth.

It does, but honestly Tim should know better.  I can't imagine Beth would bring anyone involved with the actual search into question. 

The fault would be placed squarely on the Aruban authorities that retrieved the contents.  As far as the public knows it was a volunteer search done at great expense and subject to Aruban laws.  Beth will leave it at that, I believe, because at the end of the day, it is Aruba alone that took the remains and never answered for what the testing showed.


JMO and only MO

But wouldn't the ROV footage, that Kyle was peddling around, show that the crew of the Persistence
knew and didn't report their knowlegde to the family or the US authorities?

I don't know, I can see them just avoiding that whole issue.  Having the footage would be the point. 

Listen, I personally do not think that "Aruba alone" is responsible for this complete failure.  Silvetti freaking volunteered - we were told - to perform this search.  Then when he found what he was looking for he just let them take it.  I can not justify it and will never be able to justify it.  At the very least, Trahan (you know - the supposed diver) should have retrieved a sample before the Arubans even got there.

But what's Beth/Peter going to do?  Trash Tim Miller's reputation by publicizing he was sent off the boat because there wasn't room for him AND his extra-marital girlfriend and his drinking was a problem?  I just don't know.

Tim MAY have been duped at first. But, as Silvetti kept pouring in donations to TES -- I think Tim followed the money. -JMO

[Lifesong]

I think what I'm trying to say is that with all the corruption Beth has had to suffer from Aruba, I'm not sure she would focus on exposing corrupt Americans.

I hope they are exposed, I just don't think that will be the focus.  I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

[wreck]

I think what I'm trying to say is that with all the corruption Beth has had to suffer from Aruba, I'm not sure she would focus on exposing corrupt Americans.

I hope they are exposed, I just don't think that will be the focus.  I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

The Americans might not be the FOCUS -- but, I think she would let the chips fall as they may. If it takes the Persistence fraud to be exposed to also incriminate Aruba -- so be it.

[Lifesong]

Well, I hesitate to say this because I know we disagree about it, but what gives me hope is that DeVries and Endemol were interested in buying the ROV footage and Beth is now working with them on a documentary.  Maybe it won't be featured, I don't know of course, but maybe it will.  We know that Schaefer wanted to make money off it so maybe he did sell it to them.  Maybe the truth will come out and spotlight will be back on Aruba to answer for the remains that were found in the trap.  After all, if it wasn't Natalee then there's another family out there wondering what happened to their loved one and they deserve answers too.

That is my hope too, Lifesong.

Which also explains why Tim et al are so upset with Beth.

It does, but honestly Tim should know better.  I can't imagine Beth would bring anyone involved with the actual search into question. 

The fault would be placed squarely on the Aruban authorities that retrieved the contents.  As far as the public knows it was a volunteer search done at great expense and subject to Aruban laws.  Beth will leave it at that, I believe, because at the end of the day, it is Aruba alone that took the remains and never answered for what the testing showed.


JMO and only MO

But wouldn't the ROV footage, that Kyle was peddling around, show that the crew of the Persistence
knew and didn't report their knowlegde to the family or the US authorities?

I don't know, I can see them just avoiding that whole issue.  Having the footage would be the point. 

Listen, I personally do not think that "Aruba alone" is responsible for this complete failure.  Silvetti freaking volunteered - we were told - to perform this search.  Then when he found what he was looking for he just let them take it.  I can not justify it and will never be able to justify it.  At the very least, Trahan (you know - the supposed diver) should have retrieved a sample before the Arubans even got there.

But what's Beth/Peter going to do?  Trash Tim Miller's reputation by publicizing he was sent off the boat because there wasn't room for him AND his extra-marital girlfriend and his drinking was a problem?  I just don't know.

Tim MAY have been duped at first. But, as Silvetti kept pouring in donations to TES -- I think Tim followed the money. -JMO

I agree with you, Wreck.  I think Tim's personal weaknesses were used against him, making him an asset to Aruba and to Schaefer/Silvetti.  All that was left for him to salvage was the money and support they could give to TES for non-Natalee related cases. 

[billb's daughter]

In my last post, I suggested that john s & louis s....were unconscionable....and now that i voice it...it makes a lot of sense (2 me). I'm less likely to believe now that if Tim T. did dive the cage that he would have not wanted to recovery the contents.....and I now lean towards he did...and j.s. and l.s. scammed the whole persistence effort...for financial gain by their discovery........they did make off with the remains.....leveraged it.....maybe left tim m. , tim t. klye in the dark back then....
 

[billb's daughter]

You know....I get it that many have decided not to respond to my posts....that's ok....I want you all to know that I do appreciate all of your posts....may not respond though to some because......
this evenings post really have made me think of what may be happening in the scheme of things....and that is why I love Scared Monkeys.....I'd normally single out the latest return of a sincerely missed Monkey for her thought provoking posts this evening.....
Thank you all for what you do for Justice for Natalee........

[billb's daughter]

billb, Northern Rose, spooky112483, Lifesong, 2NJSons_Mom, carolinamom, camochance and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.
Good night good monkeys

[carpe noctem]

As long as Aruba deals with one hand on the table and the other underneath - their tomb will stay sealed.

You simply can't trust anything they say or do.


What they give with one hand - they take away with another.

I perfectly understand how Paulus and Anita spawned a psychopathic serial killer
in a place as filthy as Aruba. Did you really expect anything less?

Like Rob says: we can always root for a hurricane. Or perhaps Chavez will take care of them all with iguana bait?

We need to send Christopher Walken in to do a THE DOGS OF WAR on them. (1980)

Quite frankly, there are a lot of ol' corrupt Dutch slave masters that are in need of a good killin'. It's definitely gonna take some more cowbell. 

[carpe noctem]

Boy, the Persistence was really in need of donations. That boy was forced to wear Louis Schaffer's pants!!!

It just breaks my lil' ol' heart...

 

No, it doesn't.

Carpe your mind is so twisted I LOVE YOU!
Here I am reading through the posts and then I come to yours and I can't stop
laughing and laughing and laughing. The visual is just too wonderful.

 

I hearts ya too, Kermie. I knew you'd get it. LOL

[Bearlyhere]

Do you think Anita has figured out yet that rose colored glasses don't really work? 

             

[jjayinthemorning]

I agree with you, Wreck.  I think Tim's personal weaknesses were used against him, making him an asset to Aruba and to Schaefer/Silvetti.  All that was left for him to salvage was the money and support they could give to TES for non-Natalee related cases. 

Corruption from every angle. That's why Beth's organization is important, to explain to travellers that it's not a safe place out there in the real world outside the cushy borders of the US.

[crazybabyborg]

I agree with you, Wreck.  I think Tim's personal weaknesses were used against him, making him an asset to Aruba and to Schaefer/Silvetti.  All that was left for him to salvage was the money and support they could give to TES for non-Natalee related cases. 

Corruption from every angle. That's why Beth's organization is important, to explain to travellers that it's not a safe place out there in the real world outside the cushy borders of the US.

Yes, and it's one of the few positive things that have come out of the whole situation. Beth has given a lot of effort and sacrifice and Natalee gave her life, but Beth has seen to it that all was not totally in vain. 

And TM chooses to attempt to make a mockery out of the one redeeming force there is in this.   

[Tamikosmom]

According to Kyle Kingman ... the Persistent crew did not locate the trap through searching in Aruban waters ... a detective who was involved in the Natalee Holloway case showed the way.

Janet

++++++

The Detective and The Detective's Brother

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case.
 
Kyle Kingman: Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude.

Kyle Kingman: He came to us during the search along with his brother who had a "vision" on where Natalee was disposed.

Kyle Kingman: The brother thought they were coordinates, but it was just a latitude. Oddly, the latitude was within a half mile from where we found the trap and centered on Arashi beach. 
 
Kyle Kingman: Based on this latitude we payed a little more attention to the northern portions of the search grid near that Latitude. The trap was found shortly after, within the original search area, but very close to the provided latitude.

Kyle Kingman:  I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  If a key detective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

Kyle Kingman:  The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

[Blue Moon]

I have to say I have really  about Tim Miller and what he has publically said about Beth and Natalee.  Very dissapointed in him is all I can say.  He needs to "man up" and publically apolize to her NOW.  No excuses for what he did.  There was a clear change in Tim back during the search for Caylee.  Tim has not been the same since.  My guess is Cindy drained any money he had to help search for others.  cindy is a wicked witch.  She takes down anyone who is in her presence. 

As for the remains in the cage I have always believed it to be Natalee.  Only problem is we will never know because Aruba was allowed to scurry off with the remains.  Aruba could be holding the remains hostage for the reward - same as Joran.  I mean let's get real here----Where do you thing Joran came up with the idea to blackmail Beth?  I think Aruba expected a lot of money from the Kalpoe's law suit, NOW they know that is about over with, NO PAYDAY for Aruba OR Joran.  What better way to recoup all that money they said they spent searching for Natalee than to hold the remains hostage until they were paid the full reward amount.  Wouldn't put it past them.

All I know at this point is the all stinks to high heaven!!!!!!!!!   

(Klaas,  your grandbaby is BEAUTIFUL)

[klaasend]

The next hearing in the Kalpoe vs. Dr. Phil case was schedule for tomorrow but I'm getting from this that the attorneys do not need to appear in person or that they didn't need to appear on Sept 28.  Not positive if tomorrow is still on:

[klaasend]

Thanks BlueMoon 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Thanks, Klaas, for posting the documents & to our anonymous donor who makes them available for all of us.