Natalee Case Discussion #848 9/25/2010 - 10/7/10

[Tamikosmom]

Ha. That's how Joran will be poisoned, laced marijuana. hahahahahhaha.
It seems like money is buying him some privledges. That's nice. He's still in prison and will be for a long time. Well... until they get him.

I have to agree with Tim about the Aruban authority. I suspect they did the best of their capacity. Of course that's not up to standards of other places but it was their best.

jjayinthemorning

The Natalee Holloway investigation was not an incompetent ... mistakes were not made.  There was an agenda from the getgo to protect Joran and Paulus ... to protect Aruba's tourist industry ... to protect Aruba's underground economies.  In other words ... justice for Natalee Holloway never stood a chance.  IMO

Janet

++++++

Never had a Chance

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 189:   It's the proverbial, Biblical conflict between good and evil.  It's verry, very hard to fight evil because it constantly changes form and you never know who your enemies are.  And evil is always two steps ahead.  From the outset we never had a chance.  But we didn't know it.


Messing with the Witness Statements

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Pages 187/189: After waiting months to find out what my statement actually says, Jug calls on my first day in California. He has finally been able to obtain the translation of my statement from prosecutor Janssen. The one the detective brought to me to sign late that night in the restaurant. And I trusted him, and signed every page.

“listen to this, Beth …” The words he reads echo in my head. I begin to sink, and could slide to the ground out of my chair. “Jug, they changed it. They changed my statement.”

I had carefully given intricate details about the encounter in the van der Sloot front yard the first night we got to the island, including names and physical descriptions. Now Paulus van der Sloot is described only as “the man with the glasses.”

Those are not my words.

Earlier we learned from the prosecutor that the statements from the two uniformed officers who were with us in the van der Sloot front yard that morning didn’t mention the sexual encounters described by Joran between Natalee and him. No mention of his sexual contact with her as she was falling asleep and walking up. No mention of his description of her underwear and genitalia. So the judge never heard about all that.

There‘s no way a police officer could stand there that morning, hear what Joran was saying, and fail to include these details in a statement. No way. In my opinion this information must have been deleted for the officers.


Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 182:  The day after our talk with Ms. Flanegan, I had to go to the police staton to turn in the statement that I had given to Dennis Jacobs.  He had given me a copy to go over with my attorney, Vinda.  But, after looking at it, I realized that it was only a page and a half long and had little to do with what we had actually discussed the most, the conversation that I had with Paulus van der Sloot at the prison ...  I had spent a long time with Jacobs, and much of my interview was not in the statement.

When I went back to turn it in and discuss it with him, I was told that Jacobs was in with Jan van der Stratten.

Page 183:  I commented to Jacobs about how short my statement was. He said that I could add anything I wanted to it. Also, I noticed that Eric Soemers's name was on it, but that detective was not even present during the interview. Now I wondered if Jacobs was making up everyone's statement and getting Eric to sign on to them. If that were the case, he could state anything he wanted, and it would look like an official statement made in front of a witness.

[Rob]

big difference between evidence lost in a huge storage locker and DESTROYING evidence.

big difference between arresting two innocent security guards and letting the last ones seen with Natalee have ten days to cover-up their dastardly deeds with the help of a justice department official.

big difference between letting the FBI participate and saying they are welcome on the island.

big difference between using the suspects statements against them and tearing them up.

big difference between helping a family and trying to wear them down and drain them financially.

big difference between cooperating with a family of a missing child and keeping all the records from them.

should I continue?

cause I can, all nite.

[klaasend]

Ha. That's how Joran will be poisoned, laced marijuana. hahahahahhaha.
It seems like money is buying him some privledges. That's nice. He's still in prison and will be for a long time. Well... until they get him.

I have to agree with Tim about the Aruban authority. I suspect they did the best of their capacity. Of course that's not up to standards of other places but it was their best.

I take it you don't believe that on the night of June 10, 2005 Joran confessed.  That confession was thrown away when it became clear that PVDS had made sure Natalee's body would not be found. (my personal opinion).  They (ALE) covered for the Sloots.

[Rob]

I wanted to make an additional point about Tim Miller, and when the wheels came off for me.

Trust me friends, it had been building up for quite some time, but then it happened.

If you were following the Caylee case, and who wasn't, Tim went to meet with Mark Najame.

During that meeting all things changed with Tim.

He got a donation from Mark and promptly left town.

I was so dismayed.

The reported donation was 25k.

I have no way to know if that figure is true, but Tim said before he met with Mark that it was a meeting to help find Caylee and to share some info. I suspected that info was gonna help find Caylee. And then he left.

Don't believe me?

Check the Caylee thread and you will see that as soon as he got that cash - he was gone. He left Orlando.

I always suspected that he returned to Orlando to simply shake down someone and he also got another "anonymous" donation of 50k right before that meeting with Mark.

If all Tim is about is money - I don't think that represents my thoughts on missing persons.

 - jmo -

[Rob]

I also don't think that people need to show up at a beer hut and pay a registration fee of 25 dollars to be a helpful member of society.

Where's it written that money and time / effort are equal and one in the same?

[Rob]

I'll try not to make any more posts on the subject, but I can't promise.

People care about missing persons.

Tim Miller is / was a conduit to finding those people.

If Tim thinks he's bigger than the cause - it's time to get out.

In reality and all honest - from my heart - most could careless about Tim Miller.

They care about the people missing and the people who struggle each and every day.

Tim did some good things, but he hurt some pretty badly lately.

Someone will take his place and possibly do a better job.

Too bad Beth is too much of a lady; for I would rip him up and down and seven ways to Sunday - publicly.

[Tamikosmom]

With only a crash course from the Natalee's Freebirds regarding the corrupt Aruban investigation ... Kyle Kingman recognized that something was terribly wrong with the happenings on board the Persistence encompassing the trap.  It would make sense that Tim Miller who had over a 2 1/2 year personal history recognized the signs.

Janet

++++++ 


Free Meals!  Free Motels!  Assistance with the Search!

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Tim Miller: Anybody can say what they want about Aruba but you know what...they gave us free motel rooms, they gave us free meals, they did everything to accommodate us...to help us out when we was doing the search for Natalee.  And then uhhh I certainly would not support the boycott.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe

Mistakes were made in the Beginning?

WATT'S UP WITH THIS? STEPH WATTS & TIM MILLER 9/19/2010

Steph Watts:  Tim, beyond what you just said...and people in the chat room are asking me, how could they interfere with an ongoing investigation.  Here’s how.  Beth went over there without even informing her attorney.  There’s Peruvian authorities working on this case, there’s Aruban authorities working on this case, and there’s American authorities working on this case.  People remember, he’s being charged with extortion in this country.  So, how does she interfere with an ongoing investigation?  She has no idea if they’re about to crack him, if they’re working some kind of a deal with Aruba.  If they’re working some kind of a deal...she has no idea because they don’t tell families everything.  So how does she interfere with an ongoing investigation?  She goes over there, confronts him, spooks him, scares him, gets him to tell them the story and now he doesn’t want to talk to you know the people he was talking to before.  He throws his hands up in the air and says all this is off...you guys sprung Beth on me.  That’s how she interferes with an ongoing investigation Tim Miller.  Agree or disagree?

Tim Miller:  I one hundred percent agree... I one hundred percent agree... I .. I think she should have...  Beth needs to understand, Beth is the mother, Beth is not the investigator.  I know for a fact the FBI is working this very, very hard right now, very methodical.  Uhhh they’re working very, very  close with the authorities in Aruba, they are all on the same page and ummm... were mistakes made in the very beginning?  Yes, they were, they were.. o.k. let’s face it.  But you know what everybody’s on the same page now and ummm they could have done absolutely nothing except damage all the work that’s gone into it now.

Transcript - Texasmom

Audio:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/watts-up-with-this/2010/09/20/watts-up-with-this#endframe

[San]

Joran record buying marijuana
The video shows a worker from selling the drug Inpe 5 soles to Van der Sloot.

The video spread by the news program "First Report" shows the agent of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE) to speak of marijuana for "gringo" in the Miguel Castro Castro prison grounds.

Then, subject calls loudly for Van der Sloot and offers of marijuana, which is accepted by the Dutch, who called five soles of the drug and give the money to close the transaction.

In this regard, the former head of INPE, Wilfredo Pedraza, said the issue of sale of drugs within prisons is severe but is a reality. " Also, later in the article, you can watch the Dutch murderer who walks through an area that is only for the administrative staff of INPE.

http://trome.pe/noticia/649644/graban-agente-inpe-ofreciendole-droga-joran

I guess it is common for a murderer to walk through an area that is only for administrative staff.  Especially when he attacked a guard.  Why don't they just give him the key and let him walk out of prison.

[Lifesong]

If Rob doesn't mind, I'm going to stand next to him and we can call this little area "vent corner" for the moment.

I'm sick and tired of Castro Castro, supposedly the "toughest prison in the world", letting Joran van der Sloot have a freakin' run of the place!  WTH is going on?  Now he's on tape buying drugs?  Seriously?

For crying out loud, how is one day in solitary justified as sufficient for the complete hissy fit he threw the last time we heard about him?  Tried to hit a guard, tried to run away, threw his clothes on the floor & kicked them, and screamed about someone wanting to kill him.  Well you stinking fruit loop how do think your victims felt?  What is wrong with the director of this prison?  What happened to all the influence Mr. Flores had?  Why the hell isn't Joran being beaten up regularly until he learns to sit down and shut up?

I can't wait to hear how (or should I say 'if') he's going to be punished for breaking the law by buying drugs while in custody.  What are they going to do - make him sit in his cell for an hour?  And if his cell doesn't even have a window, where is smoking pot?  Is he smoking it with the guards?  That's a solid way of keeping him from escaping!  Come on.

Ugh.

[Rob]

I'm usually the last one the psychoanalysis anyone. Specially since I'm not a doctor and people do this on boards all the time. And they have never even met the person.

But I am observant. I watch what's taking place. Maybe you wonder if I'm around, but I stay up to date.

Is Tim the only one allowed pain? Is Tim's pain worse than Beth's? How could that even be quantified?

Is Tim ALLOWED a drinking "issue" cause he is a male and a tough guy?

What's Beth to do? Develop a drinking "issue" too to show how much she suffers? Slink under the covers with a 48 pack of cold ones? Sit on the porch crying? Drive her car off a cliff to prove she suffers?

Is Tim's pain more / equal / less?

I thought Tim got involved to help people like Beth handle their pain and bring some answers, so they didn't need to live in THAT pain. The PAIN that TIM said was earth shattering, and maybe even career ending.

Where did I misinterpret the TES message? Or did Tim forget his OWN message and MISSION STATEMENT.

Beth TRIUMPHS on! And I love her more than ever. I love her cause she didn't back down, she didn't fret over the insignificant, she found her voice, and she didn't need some guy to help her.

Jealousy is ugly.

Is this Tim's message to Laura? I ask that because I care.

[Rob]

Lifesong -

This all test my patience and humanity. I never wanted Mr. Flores to have any influence, believe it or not. I wanted the laws of the Universe to handle Joran. And they will.

I didn't like it when Paulus had influence and I didn't want anyone to claim that conversely. It's just the way I am.

All in time.

Joran is at the end of the road - very end. I leave it up to God, Mr. Fate, the Universe, and the Karma Round-Up. It won't be long now.

But, I hate waiting too. 

[wreck]

Lifesong -

This all test my patience and humanity. I never wanted Mr. Flores to have any influence, believe it or not. I wanted the laws of the Universe to handle Joran. And they will.

I didn't like it when Paulus had influence and I didn't want anyone to claim that conversely. It's just the way I am.

All in time.

Joran is at the end of the road - very end. I leave it up to God, Mr. Fate, the Universe, and the Karma Round-Up. It won't be long now.

But, I hate waiting too. 

Joran will be gone soon. All this "publicity" that Joran is receiving special priviliges will not sit well with fellow prisoners or the "guards" who will be soon taking the blame. Joran is not helping himself at all. 

[crazybabyborg]

Joran will be gone soon, Wreck, I totally agree with you. I just want him tortured first until he talks. I want him tortured by inmates until he gives information about Natalee..... verifiable information! If it pans out, then he lives a while, if not, the inmates kill him.

[crazybabyborg]

I know this has been discussed, but I'm really not at all sure that Joran knows where Natalee's remains are. He knows everything about what happened to her and who did what to help cover it up........ but I think Paulus and Co. orchestrated moving her body at least once, and if they had a lick of sense, they didn't share the info with Big Mouth Joran.

[wreck]

I know this has been discussed, but I'm really not at all sure that Joran knows where Natalee's remains are. He knows everything about what happened to her and who did what to help cover it up........ but I think Paulus and Co. orchestrated moving her body at least once, and if they had a lick of sense, they didn't share the info with Big Mouth Joran.

I agree, but I don't think they have a "lick of sense either! 

[San]

I know this has been discussed, but I'm really not at all sure that Joran knows where Natalee's remains are. He knows everything about what happened to her and who did what to help cover it up........ but I think Paulus and Co. orchestrated moving her body at least once, and if they had a lick of sense, they didn't share the info with Big Mouth Joran.

I agree.  I think three people knew where Natalee was Jan Van der Straten, Rudy Croes and Nelson Odubor.

Paulus at one time knew where Natalee was but I think Aruba got smart and moved her because they didn't trust Paulus or his psycho son.

Paulus died and Joran went nuts (he had no power to threaten).

[Tamikosmom]

I know this has been discussed, but I'm really not at all sure that Joran knows where Natalee's remains are. He knows everything about what happened to her and who did what to help cover it up........ but I think Paulus and Co. orchestrated moving her body at least once, and if they had a lick of sense, they didn't share the info with Big Mouth Joran.

No Body; No Case!!

++++++

The Confession - Jun 10, 2005

'Fox News'

David Cruz, a spokesman for the Aruban Minister of Justice (search) told FOX News Natalee Holloway (search), who was on vacation with friends with a graduation trip when she disappeared, was confirmed dead and that authorities knew the location of her body.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html


'Fox News'

RICK LEVENTHAL: We reconfirmed the information with Croues before going on-air with it.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159664,00.html
 

'CBS News'

Holloway's family rushed late Friday to an old stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach after Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that one of three young men in custody admitted that "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene of the alleged crime.
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/10/national/main700829.shtml


'Meridian Star'

DAVE HOLLOWAY: At some point into this investigation, as time goes on and you don’t find her, you start realizing that things are not looking good. We got that confirmation pretty much from the FBI on June 10. They came to us and said the investigation appears to be heading toward a homicide case.

http://www.meridianstar.com/local/local_story_148205455.html


'Scarborough Country'

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  And that was the day that the FBI came in, Doug Shipley (ph) came in and said that the way the interrogations are unfolding, there‘s a strong possibility that Natalee may not be alive. That was huge. That was the day that—I think, Joe, everyone buried Natalee that day, on June 10.

And then it just—from there, the night went on. There were body sightings, countless. They were knocking on my door. They thought they found her. Oh, no, they didn‘t. It went on from 2:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m. to 4:00 a.m. It was horrific.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9813596/


'Crime/Punishment'

Then Justice Minister Rudy Croes told reporters early Saturday morning that the rumor that one of the students had confessed was a lie, throwing the media on the island into confusion and prompting conflicting news alerts from the Caribbean. Croes emphatically denied that any confession had been made.

http://crime.about.com/b/2005/06/10/confusion-reigns-in-natalee-holloway-case.htm


'Fox News'

Cruz later retracted the statement, saying he was a victim of a "misinformation campaign."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html
_____

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #714 1/20 -
« Reply #312 on: January 22, 2008, 08:43:21 PM »

I believe is that the boys buried her by the fishermans hut, and Paulus and Co moved her without the boys knowledge because of Joran's confession and the fact the boys recorded conversation  indicate they don't know where she is now.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2532.msg331268;topicseen#msg331268

[Agraria]

Ha. That's how Joran will be poisoned, laced marijuana. hahahahahhaha.
It seems like money is buying him some privledges. That's nice. He's still in prison and will be for a long time. Well... until they get him.

I have to agree with Tim about the Aruban authority. I suspect they did the best of their capacity. Of course that's not up to standards of other places but it was their best.

That would be based on who they were REALLY trying their "best" for, wouldn't it?

Tricia

[Northern Rose]

Recorded at INPE agent offering Van der Sloot drug (with video)

The first newsletter News, ATV, presented a special report on security in the maximum security prison Miguel Castro Castro and images is an agent of the National Penitentiary Institute (INPE) to provide drugs to the confessed murderer of Stephany Flores, Joran van der Sloot Dutch.

The officer shouted for Van der Sloot and offers marijuana. The Dutchman asks five soles of the drug and the transaction closes.

In this regard, the former head of INPE, Wilfredo Pedraza, said the issue of sale of drugs within prisons is severe but is a reality. "

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xf2znk_graban-a-agente-del-inpe-ofreciendo_news

[Northern Rose]

          ITT Systems Corp., Colorado Springs, Colo., was awarded an $18,514,792 contract modification which will provide various program management, operations and maintenance, and mission support services to Air Force forward operating locations in support of U.S. Southern Command aerial counter drug surveillance mission at HATO International Airport, Curacao, Netherlands Antilles and Reina Beatrix International Airport Aruba.  At this time, $1,600,000 has been obligated.  ACC AMIC/PKB, Langley Air Force Base, Va., is the contracting activity (FA4890-07-C-0007; PO0056).

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/10/04/u-s-department-of-defense-announces-latest-contract-awards-180/