Natalee Case Discussion #848 9/25/2010 - 10/7/10

[klaasend]

Is SS all there?  She just made the strangest post.  Does she have reading or vision problems?

[Rob]

Is SS threatening Kermit's family?????

if my daughter went missing in a brewery Tim Miller would be the first person I would call and think of.   

Well, he would never find her until all the inventory was gone, and then he couldn't walk.

LMAO 

so true.

You know, I was thinking about something yesterday Mags. It was about Kyle and the Persistence. This whole episode sort of made a light bulb go off in my head.

I think they got played, and here's how it COULD HAVE happened.

I think they found the trap, told the Arubans, and they told them not to do anything just yet. They were gonna get a few experts. So Kyle, John, and crew just sat around waiting, thinking - ok, we're gonna get this thing looked at, see what's in it and all the proper things have been put in place. WE followed the proper protocols.

Then it was about TWO weeks later IIRC that the Arubans finally got it all together and made the initial dives. And low and behold - there's something there. The Arubans may have something like we need other experts and we will bring up the remains. (And we know there were remains - that was confirmed, just male. if you can believe that)

Then when the retrieval was to take place the boat was positioned, the Arubans ready to dive and get the remains, and wham - the Arubans steal the contents and the crew of the Persistence is left standing there holding their willies. I bet there was a dumbfounded look on all their faces as that happened. After all, Arubans NEVER lie and the crew of the Persistence followed all the protocols, all the rules, and then they remembered all the things that they were told. Never ever trust anyone from Aruba.

Then Kyle and the rest of 'em just decided - instead of looking like idiots - let's just pretend it never happened.

[Tamikosmom]

Is SS threatening Kermit's family?????

I would not hesitate to contact Texas Equusearch if my granddaughter was to go missing.  It does not imply that my thoughts regarding Tim Miller's betrayal of Natalee Holloway and her family has changed.  My love for my granddaughter surpasses the emotions I harbour in regards to Tim ... the emotions of anger, disappointment and sadness.

Janet

[Magnolia]

Rob,
If I had been looking for Natalee for nearly 3 years and found that trap, there is no way I would
have sat on that boat and not gone down and had a look for myself.  They had no business waiting
for the Arubans.  They could have gotten a little sample of something.  They knew who they were
dealing with and that the Arubans were not to be trusted.

There is no excuse to sit and wait a week and do nothing.

[Rob]

Is SS threatening Kermit's family?????

I would not hesitate to contact Texas Equusearch if my granddaughter was to go missing.  It does not imply that my thoughts regarding Tim Miller's betrayal of Natalee Holloway and her family has changed.  My love for my granddaughter surpasses the emotions I harbour in regards to Tim ... the emotions of anger, disappointment and sadness.

Janet

I would call the police and hope they solve it. You don't know WHICH Tim Miller is gonna show up.

[Rob]

Rob,
If I had been looking for Natalee for nearly 3 years and found that trap, there is no way I would
have sat on that boat and not gone down and had a look for myself.  They had no business waiting
for the Arubans.  They could have gotten a little sample of something.  They knew who they were
dealing with and that the Arubans were not to be trusted.

There is no excuse to sit and wait a week and do nothing.

no doubt!

But then there were all the warnings that probably went off like a broken fire alarm. The house is burn down, but the smoke detector is finally beeping in the smoldering ruins. 

[Magnolia]

Is SS all there?  She just made the strangest post.  Does she have reading or vision problems?

I saw it and thought she might have gone round the bend.

[Tamikosmom]

There was a time that SS was one with Monkeys who comprehended perfectly the Persistence betrayal ... the Persistence betrayal which was revealed by Kyle Kingsman in his posts to the Natalee's Freebirds' forum.

Janet 

++++++

REMINDER

There was a short period in time when SS was a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words in regards to a John Silvetti betrayal to Natalee Holloway and her family?  She had it figured out perfectly.

She went from unwavering support of CAPS and ... challenging anyone who dared question the actions or the motives of the Persistence endeavor ... to a full comprehension that CAPS was placed on the SM forum to distract from the happenings encompassing the trap/cage.

However ... inquiring minds do want to know what/who persuaded SS to backtracked from her new found awareness and return to her orginal position of support in regards to CAPS and John Silvetti.  Why did SS not share her motivation with the SM forum?
_____

SS - NOVEMBER/DECEMBER, 2008

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
on: November 17, 2008, 08:32:15 PM  

Monkeys - Kyle said that he discovered the trap on the screen very early Christmas morning.  That's when Tim said  "it looks like a skull".  The contents of the trap were cleaned on January 7th.  Persistence continued to use side scan sonor to map the ocean floor well into February.  Now how could they justify all of those extra weeks of searching for a missing American woman if they had already found her in the beginning of January?  They also needed to get our focus off of Persistence and the ocean search.  Viola!  Caps enters the picture to tell us about Manserat Pond.  The picture of the cage was never supposed to be released and I'm sure that caused big trouble.  All of the evidence disappeared.  The fabric sent to Quantico wasn't Natalee's blouse.  There wasn't anything else in the cage - it was just a coconut or a piece of coral.  Back to the ocean search for Peristence so that they could continue with the grids and their non profit search.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4129.msg546635#msg546635


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #156 on: December 04, 2008, 02:08:35 AM »

1.  Silvetti's businesses were in trouble.  He wanted to start new businesses with oil and an oil pipeline from Aruba to Chavez in Colombia.  He needed money.

2.  He illegally sold off his shares of stock and that is why the SEC is after him.

3.  Before he started his new oil business, he needed to have a geological scan of the ocean floor.  Doing those scans costs lots of money.

4.  He agreed to volunteer his ship, crew, and equipment to search for a missing American woman in the same area.  He scans the ocean floor looking for Natalee, but really he's doing oil work.

5.  Most of his expenses for the Persistence search were written off on his corporate tax returns because it was charity work and a donation that he was doing.  By looking for Natalee, he was able to map the ocean for free.

6.  Natalee was found in the end of December.  Oh no, what can he do?  He can't keep mapping the ocean floor for free because he just found the missing American woman.  So, the trap contents were turned over to ALE, nothing was ever in that trap. and he continued to search for Natalee and map for oil for another 6 to 8 weeks -at very little expense to himself.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg565794;topicseen#msg565794


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
« Reply #310 on: November 17, 2008, 11:53:15 PM »

Jossy and John are friends.  John went to Aruba in March to attend a Mansur wedding.

Has anyone thought about the possibility that the Mansurs own the mineral rights on the ocean floor?  They own 80% of the island.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if they own the mineral rights under the ocean shelf.  Translated that means whoever owns the mineral rights makes money off of every barrel of oil that is brought to the surface and John Silvetti had just finished the geological survey to determine where to place the off shore wells.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4129.msg546590#msg546590


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #775 11/16/08 thru
« Reply #322 on: November 18, 2008, 12:22:13 AM »

Oil in that area of the Carribbean is touchy because of Chavez.  He owns everything.  The US needs allys with oil.  Is that why they have been easy on Aruba?  They didn't want the world to know that they planning off shore exploration and drilling.  Another factor was probably money.  Geological exploration is expensive.  Silvetti's company was just about bankrupt.  Wouldn't it be nice to have all of those mapping expenses written off because it was done for the purpose of searching for the body of a missing American woman.  Their survey was done for a nonprofit organization.  How magnanimous.  Crappy Island will be a boom town if they drill for oil and find it and the Mansurs will greatly increase their fortune.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4129.320


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #726 on: December 06, 2008, 04:23:52 PM »

I agree with you, Janet.  I thought a lot about it last night, after I finally had to turn my computer off and just think.  In his heart, I'm sure that Tim Miller believed what he had seen or he wouldn't have said, Bull$hit with the thumbs down.  However, he had no control over all of that pphotographic equipment and perhaps he was only being shown what they wanted him to see.  There was a very good reason why they had to get him off of Persistence before January 7th.  I don't think that Dave or Tim would have gone to Nicaragua if they didn't think it was a viable lead.  I wonder if ALE are the ones who set it all up as another one of their infamous diversion tactics

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569218#msg569218


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #697 on: December 06, 2008, 03:26:15 PM »

Blue Moon - great reference!  I have pretty much been a believer that Natalee was buried on land, but after Kyle's calculations, I don't think so anymore.  Kyle is a trained oceanographer and he has been taught how to make those calculations of objects on the ocean floor.  Kyle's calculations are actually the first piece of scientific data that we have after three and a half years.  I wonder if it would be too much of a stretch to hope that the release of the cage photographs somehow has forced Rudy's hand???  They can't deny any longer that something was in the cage.  There are photographs to prove the lie.  Whether or not they have destroyed the actual cage contents remains to be seen.  If the evidence has been destroyed, Richardson and Mos could also be in trouble along with Paulass and Uncle Jan.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569178#msg569178


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #702 on: December 06, 2008, 03:41:17 PM »

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569184#msg569184


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #678 on: December 06, 2008, 01:52:46 PM »

I don't think anything would surprise me at this point.  This story is getting sicker by the day.  How could they just hand all of that evidence over to ALE and deny that they had found anything???  And, sit silently by when our FBI was sent a piece of nothing?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569137#msg569137
__________


Dialogue - SS and Tamikosmom:


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #755 on: November 24, 2008, 10:13:44 PM »

I have some feelings about the photographs and I wonder if others feel the same way that I do.  If Louis, John, and Kyle had hidden those photographs from ALE so that they could be turned over to Beth, Dave, and US authorities, it would have been a dishonest action, but it would have been in the best interests of everyone.  ALE has been so despicable from day one, and under handed handling of evidence would have been a double standard, but I would have supported it and jumped up and down with cheers.  Unfortunately, that isn't what happened.  The evidence was hidden from Beth, Dave, and the American public and the photographs were never even given to the FBI by members of the Persistence group.  When I hear that there is even a remote possibility that Louis Schafer sold those photographs for big bucks and that Kyle attempted to sell the photographs to networks last February, I just want to scream.  These actions are beyond explanation or justification.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg556201#msg556201
 

Tamikosmom
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #774 on: November 24, 2008, 10:39:01 PM »

I wish Kyle would respond to these allegations.

Thanks SS.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg556243#msg556243


SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #778 11/23/08 -
« Reply #784 on: November 24, 2008, 10:46:48 PM »

Dinners over... I ate my crow and it didn't very good at all.  I am so sorry for going at you.  I was so convinced that everything and everyone involved with Perisistence were above reproach.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4173.msg556257;topicseen#msg556257

;topicseen#msg556257

[Magnolia]

Rob,
If I had been looking for Natalee for nearly 3 years and found that trap, there is no way I would
have sat on that boat and not gone down and had a look for myself.  They had no business waiting
for the Arubans.  They could have gotten a little sample of something.  They knew who they were
dealing with and that the Arubans were not to be trusted.

There is no excuse to sit and wait a week and do nothing.

no doubt!

But then there were all the warnings that probably went off like a broken fire alarm. The house is burn down, but the smoke detector is finally beeping in the smoldering ruins. 

They could have at least called the FBI to come in and oversee the dive.  Silvetti had already sold
his soul to the devil at that point.  Tim and Kyle were bought off later.  IMO

[Tamikosmom]

Is SS threatening Kermit's family?????

I would not hesitate to contact Texas Equusearch if my granddaughter was to go missing.  It does not imply that my thoughts regarding Tim Miller's betrayal of Natalee Holloway and her family has changed.  My love for my granddaughter surpasses the emotions I harbour in regards to Tim ... the emotions of anger, disappointment and sadness.

Janet

I would call the police and hope they solve it. You don't know WHICH Tim Miller is gonna show up.

Rob

In my desperation ... I would take advantage of ALL official resources which would be willing to work with LE that were willing to assist in bringing my Little Miss Muffet home.

Janet

[Bearlyhere]

Is SS threatening Kermit's family?????

if my daughter went missing in a brewery Tim Miller would be the first person I would call and think of.   

Well, he would never find her until all the inventory was gone, and then he couldn't walk.

It's not the walking he is having trouble with, it's the talking.

 

I have watched people die of cirrhosis while I was working at the hospital, it is not a pretty death.  Tim, please get some help.

 

[texasmom]

Is SS all there?  She just made the strangest post.  Does she have reading or vision problems?

I saw it and thought she might have gone round the bend.

I'd say that happened a long time ago.  JMO   

[Buckeye]

JORAN CELLBLOCK MONEY RIOT


The prime suspect in the NATALEE HOLLOWAY disappearance,  self-confessed killer JORAN van der SLOOT has gone on an incredible $50,000 spending spree in prison - thanks to a huge cash windfall he's using for bribes, The ENQUIRER reports exclusively.


The pampered punk has become the king of his cell block - enjoying specially prepared gourmet meals, his favorite drinks, expensive new clothes and startling privileges including playing poker with his guards, The ENQUIRER has learned exclusively.

When a newsman recently sneaked Natalee's mom BETH TWITTY into van der Sloot's Peruvian prison for a headline-making confrontation, she was expecting to find him in a rat-infested hellhole. But to her shock and horror, she found him living the good life!

"Where is my daughter? What did you do with her?" Beth demanded.

But the stone-cold killer met her with silence handing her his lawyer's business card, and the distraught mom is now convinced Joran will never confess to killing her daughter - and will take to his grave the secrets behind the Alabama teen's sudden disappearance in Aruba five years ago.

The ENQUIRER also learned that the arrogant thug shows absolutely no remorse.

When a guard at the prison recently asked him about Natalee, Joran heartlessly fired back: "What does that matter - she's dead!"

The Dutch thug, 23, is being held at Lima's Miguel Castro Castro prison on charges he murdered Peruvian student Stephany Flores, 21. He remains the prime suspect in Natalee's death. Yet he lives a cushy existence thanks to a Dutch media company he says paid him a staggering $50,000 for an interview.

Now, in an outrageous reversal of sanity, prison guards are Joran's personal servants. He plays cards with them, and they even allowed him to buy fancy shoes and clothes for his prison pal Hugo Trujillo Ospina -  "The Clown" - a paid assassin who's been protecting him from other inmates' sexual attacks, The ENQUIRER has learned.

Joran is ensuring his safety by becoming the prison "Santo Klaus" - buying cigarettes and garments for the most dangerous inmates and donating to their favorite charity to send a 3-year-old Peruvian girl for medical care in the U.S.

The huge interview fee, which Joran uses for his bribes and luxury living, is reportedly being funneled to him a small amount at a time by a local attorney.

Joran enjoys the amenities his payoffs allow, including gourmet meals of traditional Peruvian dishes, such as beef cooked with tomatoes and onions served with fried potatoes.

"It's disgraceful!" fumed Holloway family friend and investigator Art Wood. "This remorseless monster is being allowed to profit from his terrible crimes."

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/joran_van_der_slot_payoff_twitty_holloway_santo_klaus_/celebrity/69398

picture at site

[Bearlyhere]

I've been think about what Tim said and to be honest - I'm not sure I can forgive or forget. I thought about it for a few days and I'm stuck.

I think back about when he went up to Illinois and found Naomi Arnette. If he didn't go up there that poor woman would have never been found, I fear - and she had seven kids IIRC. The police had no clue what happened to her and not to re-hash all that, but it makes the whole Steph Watts thing heartbreaking.
ICE OF
It's hard to forget all the good he did. But Tim SHOULD have KNOWN first hand what Beth has been through and what she was up against. And for that matter TJ too.

Natalee's case is more than a missing person case - it's really about the INJUSTICE of it all. I mean, this case is different and not to say that all missing person cases aren't truly sad and deserve our compassion, but in this case it was solved and Beth, Dave and Natalee were all denied the justice that should have been applied in the first few days. This case is different for that reason alone.

I guess I thought more of Tim and expected more from him since he had first hand knowledge of the dynamics of this case.

I do appreciate Private Eye's heartfelt words and knew it was him as soon as I read what he had to say and I recognized his writing style. But, I'm not Private Eye - and my compassion is reserved for the victims of crimes and their families. Not for an old lecherous booze hound that should know when to shut up. He made drunken comments similar to those before - and it always starts out the same way - I should apologize before I begin.

I have always been a very forgiving person, and when someone asks to be forgiven and it's heartfelt - I always accept that apology. And that's usually been my downfall in life. Accepting apologies from those that continue to hurt.

Not sure I can forgive and I'm sure I won't forget.

I hope time heals all these wounds for all of us.

Similar to karma, Rob, time wounds all heels.  Wait for it...

[Bearlyhere]

Is SS threatening Kermit's family?????

I would not hesitate to contact Texas Equusearch if my granddaughter was to go missing.  It does not imply that my thoughts regarding Tim Miller's betrayal of Natalee Holloway and her family has changed.  My love for my granddaughter surpasses the emotions I harbour in regards to Tim ... the emotions of anger, disappointment and sadness.

Janet

I can admire someone's work, whether it is artwork, performance, acting, etc. without admiring who they are as a person.  It is possible to separate the two.

[Magnolia]

Is SS all there?  She just made the strangest post.  Does she have reading or vision problems?

I saw it and thought she might have gone round the bend.

I'd say that happened a long time ago.  JMO   

Funny thing about that SS....she can judge Kermit and SM, but thinks it isn't her place to judge
Tim Miller for what he said about Beth. 

Now how do you figure that, SS?  Last time I looked Beth was still listed as a part of Natalee's family.

[Bearlyhere]

Is SS all there?  She just made the strangest post.  Does she have reading or vision problems?

Of course, look at her, she only has one eye.

 

[Magnolia]

Is SS all there?  She just made the strangest post.  Does she have reading or vision problems?

Of course, look at her, she only has one eye.

 

I love you Bearly!!!

[Tamikosmom]

Prtivate Eye!! We think of you often and it is certainly great to hear from you! I of course understand and respect your feelings about Tim. I think most of us thought long and hard before coming back at Tim about his recent comments. Everyone here has always had such a high esteem and appreciation for all Tim has done for Natalee as well as his countless efforts for ALL missing family members. I don't think anyone here is taking that lightly and have carefully weighed that.

For me, it all goes back to the Persistence. I have not changed my belief that something very hinky was going on. I'm afraid Tim was not just "duped" -- he was complicit.

The Persistence was a strange deal, but I thought Tim was just aboard for the ride so to speak, and not as the Captain or in the know. Tim called Beth almost in tears he was so excited the night before the recovery. He is not that smooth of an operator to have faked his sincerity. Does he know more now? Only he knows that, and by his silence I assume he doesn't. Especially since Kyle seems to not know what happened as well.  But something happened, I agree.

private eye

Tim contacted Beth and Dave the night before the visual dive after Kyle conducted the first ROV dive and then analyzed the images.  At this point in time Tim was all about justice for Natalee and closure for his family.  However the happenings of the next day December 30, 2007 encompassing the visual dive are what concerned Tim and Kyle.  Tim left the ship on January 1, 2008 and was not present for the January 7, 2008 recovery dive ... the recovery dive that furthered Kyle's concerns.

private eye ... when Kyle Kingman's own words in the posts submitted to the SM forum by Kermit are considered ... I find it so difficult to comprehend how you can claim that neither Tim nor Kyle were aware of the troubled happenings encompassing the trap.

The betrayal of Kyle and Tim does not involve the trap per se.  The betrayal is the silence of these two men regarding their concerns.  The betrayal is the perception that silence implied professional benefits for both men.

Janet

++++++


December 29, 2007 - The First ROV Dive
Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kermit - In His Own Words


December 30, 2007 - The Visual Dive - The Second ROV Dive

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess.

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys


January 7, 2008 - The Recovery Dive - The Third ROV Dive

Kyle Kingman - In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kermit - Scared Monkeys

 

[Tamikosmom]

Is SS all there?  She just made the strangest post.  Does she have reading or vision problems?

Of course, look at her, she only has one eye.

 

 

It took a little thinking but ... I finally got it.

Janet