Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #31 9/27/10 - 10/02/2010

[Monkey King]

Rob

The fact is we don't really know much.  Everyone has an opinion, but until we get more information, it is impossible to say one way or the other.  I really don't think LE was hoping someone would take justice into their own hands.  If a stranger/SO abducted Kyron, then no one saw it happen and I don't think LE let him get away, because they wouldn't have had any more to go on then than they do today.  I think if anyone had reported seeing someone who didn't belong at the school that day they would have reported it and LE would have looked into it.  I don't think LE would have ignored any evidence, even if it led them in a different direction.  I really think they were open to any clues.

I think we are all here to discuss the facts that we have and explore where they, the facts, lead us.  If we are not here for that, then I don't know what this is all about.
   

No answer and not Rob but you bring up a very good point about a "stranger abduction"  with all the interviews of everyone present that day you'd think a stranger would stick out like a sore thumb for everyone there and thus LE. 

I always think about the serial killer in the silence of the lambs and how easy and quick it was for him to get his victim in the back of his van and ride off into the night.

I wonder if there was a set time that everyone - parents/chaperones left the science fair that day and if it coincides with Kyron missing?  Did they carry out their children's science projects to their cars? 

IMO, the school was very busy with the science fair, everyone excited, additional people in the school - parents and visitors -and I don't really think anyone was focused on looking for stangers.  In fact, with no sign-in sheets, no cameras, very relaxed rules, a stranger could have easily walked in the school and gone into a room unnoticed. 

There are a couple of obvious points:  Kyron is missing and no one saw him leave.

 

It's clearly a different world than where I come from.  I thought the school contained 300 including staff?  That is small.  I heard somewhere that Kyron's class had 12 students in it and the teacher had a helper?  If you can't keep track of those small numbers imo we got problems from the get go???  JMO.

I believe there were something approx 23 students in Kyron's class.  The students were to be broken up into small groups for the science fair.

Someone correct me if I am wrong for clarification.

Also, which doesn't get discussed much, the school offered before school and after school daycare services.

[Puzzler]

nurseratchett,

This may be a dumb question, but right now I can't figure out what Pdx means.  Would you please let me know?  TIA

[Patricia Mocha Latte]

I wonder why Kyron had told people that his Step Mother was dead?
Death is a very scary and final thing for a Child to consider.

Had someone else told Kyron that? If so who and why?

It amazes me the things that Children say. Repeat, etc...

IIRC Just days before Kyron's disappearance Kyron's friend Curtis and his Mother Becky Owens had taken Kyron bowling. I wonder what types of things Kyron had discussed among his other young friends?

Also, IIRC Kat Villarreal had died from injuries sustained from a motorcycle accident. I wonder if Curtis and Kyron had ever discussed the "d" word (death) amongst each other in an effort to try to understand the subject from peer to peer?

So sad.

I wonder if there has been finality in the investigation regarding Kat Villarreal's motorcycle accident? If so I wonder if there has been a final determination as to what may have caused the accident?

Years ago I had been in a motorcycle accident. I remember the fact finding process and how the investigators meticulously reviewed every piece of evidence down to the skid marks and trajectory etc...
Another vehicle had caused the accident I was in. I was the passenger on the bike. I realize how lucky I am to have survived, considering.
I realize that the accident was, an accident, and I forgive the person who caused it.
Just thinking out loud. Sorry for the O/T.

Great posts Rob. Glad to see you posting again. 

[Puzzler]

Hi all I am grateful for the rain where I live much needed. I am more of a lurker than a poster, but I have to say I beg to differ with some of your statements, Rob.  I do agree that some things that some things said by others were a bit insensitive, but I stand my belief that truth is consistent.
I cannot speak for everyone's capacity or how they would handle a crisis but I do believe Terri lied on June 4Th. I think the term batphone is cute , but that is my opinion.My dad calls them bat phones for other not so nice reasons as he says we all sound like a bunch of batty people chatting  oblivious on these phones everywhere. I do not know what happened to Kyron, I don't believe in conspiracy theories. Just the truth. Truth is perception and when a person acts guilty, then that is what the public is left with. No hard feelings just agree to disagree. Instinctively I know the police messed this up, and there are no suspects, and this family is left torn, with a little boy missing. Yes there are alot of predators in Oregon as there are here in Virginia where I live. It is a sick sad world but we can continue to hope for the good in mankind to shine through. We can continue to share our thoughts on these forums and possibly bring comfort to someone else going through something painful. If I am wrong about Terri I will admit it and say I am sorry, but my gut tells me different. Have a nice night all.

I'm pretty sure that you know which questions Terri allegedly lied on by now.

And they are not related to Kyron..

Do you know where Kyron is - no - Truthful (As far as I have seen)

Do you know who took Kyron - no - Truthful (As far as I have seen)

Where were you - Deceptive - (As far as I have seen)

maybe my info is incorrect.

You have a nice kind heart and there is nothing wrong with wishing the best.

Question:

As far as you know - would this have been the question on the 1st or 3rd LDT?(Rumor is she walked on the 2nd)  Wouldn't they (LE) just have cleared the issue(failed ?) up with her - than asked the same question again on the next one and she would have passed?  Not specifically her but is that the way the LDT questioning would go in general with repeat LDT's for anyone?  I know you have knowledge in this area...so can you help a girl out?

The rumor I heard was that Terri walked on the second LDT after first being interrogated by LE for hours and then asked the same questions over-and-over.

IMO, it's like Rob said.  If she failed the question "do you know where Kyron is?" - Terri would have been arrested.  If she failed the question "did you take Kyron from the school?" - Terri would have been arrested.  I she came up deceptive in her response to "where were you from during such-and-such time period" - that's nothing to arrest anyone over.

Yes I understand she would of been arrested but I am still curious.

Maybe not anything to do with it but as I have discussed another case and the LDT results of it with Rob I'd like to hear his response to my question about the questions asked and clearing them on the LDT if they show deceptive.  How do they rule out involvement on such a crucial question?

It seems to me that all the evidence is not clear at this point.  I can't go with the crazy MFH theory.   So I'am still picking apart what I got along with someone at the school...known to be at the school that day that would not be suspected.

FCL - I'm not saying that they "ruled Terri out", I was saying that it was not a question to get anyone arrested at that point.  I think deceptive answers are always fuel for further investigation.

[Puzzler]

Rob

The fact is we don't really know much.  Everyone has an opinion, but until we get more information, it is impossible to say one way or the other.  I really don't think LE was hoping someone would take justice into their own hands.  If a stranger/SO abducted Kyron, then no one saw it happen and I don't think LE let him get away, because they wouldn't have had any more to go on then than they do today.  I think if anyone had reported seeing someone who didn't belong at the school that day they would have reported it and LE would have looked into it.  I don't think LE would have ignored any evidence, even if it led them in a different direction.  I really think they were open to any clues.

I think we are all here to discuss the facts that we have and explore where they, the facts, lead us.  If we are not here for that, then I don't know what this is all about.
   

No answer and not Rob but you bring up a very good point about a "stranger abduction"  with all the interviews of everyone present that day you'd think a stranger would stick out like a sore thumb for everyone there and thus LE. 

I always think about the serial killer in the silence of the lambs and how easy and quick it was for him to get his victim in the back of his van and ride off into the night.

I wonder if there was a set time that everyone - parents/chaperones left the science fair that day and if it coincides with Kyron missing?  Did they carry out their children's science projects to their cars? 

IMO, the school was very busy with the science fair, everyone excited, additional people in the school - parents and visitors -and I don't really think anyone was focused on looking for stangers.  In fact, with no sign-in sheets, no cameras, very relaxed rules, a stranger could have easily walked in the school and gone into a room unnoticed. 

There are a couple of obvious points:  Kyron is missing and no one saw him leave.

 

It's clearly a different world than where I come from.  I thought the school contained 300 including staff?  That is small.  I heard somewhere that Kyron's class had 12 students in it and the teacher had a helper?  If you can't keep track of those small numbers imo we got problems from the get go???  JMO.

FCL - I think your opinion's correct: Problems from the get-go!   

[melancholygirl]

Puzzler:  PDX is the airport code for Portland.

[fatcatlurker]

Puzzler thank you.

[Monkey King]

(snipped)

But wait for it, waiiiit, here it comes. Here's the really shocking part. They shared investigative knowledge with the husband of the suspect. Everyone knows that the police never ever do that and compromised the investigation. Only an inept and incompetent police force uses the husband and ex-wife of the "de-facto suspect" to force her into a situation where she had to move. And feared for her life. Well, the police sure aren't gonna want to admit that, now are they. Heads could roll.
(snipped)

BBM
Rob, excellent points!! 

Agreed!  And heads may still roll by the time this is over.

Staton said "there are issues the Sheriff's Office needs to address" and there will be a "debriefing at the conclusion".

Also, someone asked the Sheriff:

 http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Raw-Sheriff-on-Kyron-Horman-case-pt-1-103010894.html
http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Raw-Sheriff-on-Kyron-Horman-case-pt-2-103011144.html

QUESTION: "Can you tell us if there are going to be other cases"

ANSWER:  "Through the course of this investigation we have developed some concerns and I think those concerns need to be addressed weither it's going to turn into an investigation and/or a notification process to other government entities that still remains to be assessed."

[Monkey King]

Another thing is when they give you a polygraph, they usually ask you yes or no questions.

[fatcatlurker]

Kyron and flying on planes - I remember someone asked this question.  It was answered by I guess DY or KH on a Q&A about Kyron;

Some of things that he enjoys are playing with his Hot Wheels cars, fishing, his artwork, playing with Bootsy and Ernie, and loves to go on trips where he gets to fly on airplanes.
______________________________________________________________
IDK where the exact article was posted in the news but here is the Hinky Meter link for the article for further search if anyone wants it.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/06/16/have-you-seen-kyron-horman/

[fatcatlurker]

(snipped)

But wait for it, waiiiit, here it comes. Here's the really shocking part. They shared investigative knowledge with the husband of the suspect. Everyone knows that the police never ever do that and compromised the investigation. Only an inept and incompetent police force uses the husband and ex-wife of the "de-facto suspect" to force her into a situation where she had to move. And feared for her life. Well, the police sure aren't gonna want to admit that, now are they. Heads could roll.
(snipped)

BBM
Rob, excellent points!! 

Agreed!  And heads may still roll by the time this is over.

Staton said "there are issues the Sheriff's Office needs to address" and there will be a "debriefing at the conclusion".

Also, someone asked the Sheriff:

 http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Raw-Sheriff-on-Kyron-Horman-case-pt-1-103010894.html
http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Raw-Sheriff-on-Kyron-Horman-case-pt-2-103011144.html

QUESTION: "Can you tell us if there are going to be other cases"

ANSWER:  "Through the course of this investigation we have developed some concerns and I think those concerns need to be addressed weither it's going to turn into an investigation and/or a notification process to other government entities that still remains to be assessed."

MonkeyKing some think this could just be a statement about the MFH plot with the illegal alien Rudy Sanchez aka landscaper.  Not saying it is...not saying it isn't....JMO.

[nurseratchett]

(snipped)

But wait for it, waiiiit, here it comes. Here's the really shocking part. They shared investigative knowledge with the husband of the suspect. Everyone knows that the police never ever do that and compromised the investigation. Only an inept and incompetent police force uses the husband and ex-wife of the "de-facto suspect" to force her into a situation where she had to move. And feared for her life. Well, the police sure aren't gonna want to admit that, now are they. Heads could roll.
(snipped)

BBM
Rob, excellent points!! 

Did they share though because they had evidence of a threat directed at the person they shared it with? I don't think LE gave info willy nilly to Kaine until they learned about the MFH plot. So, they would be highly liable if they had NOT shared with him.

[fatcatlurker]

MonkeyKing I just watched a video of Kyron's and It sure looked like a whole lot more than 12 students his age.  So 23 is probably right.  I swear I read 12 on here somewhere.

[Puzzler]

(snipped)

But wait for it, waiiiit, here it comes. Here's the really shocking part. They shared investigative knowledge with the husband of the suspect. Everyone knows that the police never ever do that and compromised the investigation. Only an inept and incompetent police force uses the husband and ex-wife of the "de-facto suspect" to force her into a situation where she had to move. And feared for her life. Well, the police sure aren't gonna want to admit that, now are they. Heads could roll.
(snipped)

BBM
Rob, excellent points!! 

A few days back, the monkeys had a discussion about how curious it was that Kaine/Desiree would make a press statement that Terri wasn't being helpful, not answering questions (words to that effect) and LE was making comments that Terri was co-operative, the family hadn't been informed by them (words to that effect). 

Now...look at Rob's points that I bolded above...doesn't that fit in with our wondering "why" LE seemed to be counter-acting what Kaine/Desiree were saying to the public?

[nurseratchett]

nurseratchett,

This may be a dumb question, but right now I can't figure out what Pdx means.  Would you please let me know?  TIA

OMG... I am sooo sorry, and embarrassed. NOt a dumb question, by any means. I apologize... I am so used to typing that, In my "ego" everyone knows....

I see it was already answered, but please accept my apologies for being so "local".
And, maybe a bouquet of   

[Monkey King]

(snipped)

But wait for it, waiiiit, here it comes. Here's the really shocking part. They shared investigative knowledge with the husband of the suspect. Everyone knows that the police never ever do that and compromised the investigation. Only an inept and incompetent police force uses the husband and ex-wife of the "de-facto suspect" to force her into a situation where she had to move. And feared for her life. Well, the police sure aren't gonna want to admit that, now are they. Heads could roll.
(snipped)

Prior to the MFH plot, there was a leak of information.




BBM
Rob, excellent points!! 

Did they share though because they had evidence of a threat directed at the person they shared it with? I don't think LE gave info willy nilly to Kaine until they learned about the MFH plot. So, they would be highly liable if they had NOT shared with him.

[Monkey King]

Sorry, I'm in Puzzler's box! ^

Hey Puzzler!

Private party!

[Puzzler]

nurseratchett,

This may be a dumb question, but right now I can't figure out what Pdx means.  Would you please let me know?  TIA

OMG... I am sooo sorry, and embarrassed. NOt a dumb question, by any means. I apologize... I am so used to typing that, In my "ego" everyone knows....

I see it was already answered, but please accept my apologies for being so "local".
And, maybe a bouquet of   

 

[fatcatlurker]

So what was shared?  hmmm that Terri herself wasn't supposedly sharing with everyone in the house who cared to listen including the LE that was staying there?

[nurseratchett]

So we have Staff, parents, volunteers anyone could be it.    Kyron last seen at 8:45?  9am per TH email w/male chaperone and 2 other children?  DS leaves at 9am also?  I wonder who else left at that time?

I am still stuck on the Kiara issue, Fly Monkey... if you're still reading, can you please ask DeDe where Kiara was during the science fair? There have been conflicting reports that she was with a babysitter and also that she was with Terri. For some reason, I base a lot of what TH "could have/would have" done on whether or not she was toting a toddler around AT the school.

 TIA