Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #31 9/27/10 - 10/02/2010

[seemeatthebeach]

I just don't know what it is, in all the cases that I have followed, hate to say it, but I make up my mind very early, which I know isn't right to do. For some darn reason, this case has me confused and I'm just not set on Terri harming Kyron, and I couldn't even tell a person why 

Dear Rose,
 
    IMO, there has been so little information forthcoming that sometimes all you have are your instincts. 
    In this case, probably as in most others, this is an important key and not to be overlooked.  Especially in Kyron's case, what else do we have? (see below) 
    Also... I like to think about this:  motive/motivation, and: simplicity.  Every action or statement is motivated by something.
    And, this was a crisis.  There was no time for complexity.  The answer will be the simplest one, IMO.   

FACTS:

We have witness reports.
We have death alerts (uninvestigated by LE)
We have time and place and statements and actions by those involved. 

Why are you saying death alerts uninvestigated by LE is a fact?

WE do not know for a fact that LE hasn't investigated these so called death alerts, or not. I don't consider statements by Mr. HO as FACTS, if that's where your info is coming from. He is not LE, and has no official status in the investigation of Kyron's disappearance.
Has LE released any witness reports to the public?

[MuffyBee]

I just don't know what it is, in all the cases that I have followed, hate to say it, but I make up my mind very early, which I know isn't right to do. For some darn reason, this case has me confused and I'm just not set on Terri harming Kyron, and I couldn't even tell a person why 

I have such a hard time wrapping my head around a mother hurting their child, or any child for that matter......but then I look at Casey Anthony.
I don't want to think Terri directly or indirectly caused harm to Kyron, and hope to God she didn't.

In our "Crimes Against Children, Elderly and the Disabled" http://Scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?board=9.0 , there are a number of cases where mothers, fathers, relatives, caregivers and etc. have hurt or killed a child/children or they are suspected of disappearing them, and if you check some of the high profile cases, you will find some in there too.   Sometimes parents don't report children missing and if they do, it's months later, or they say they gave them to a stranger.   There are so many, many more cases out there, there wouldn't be a forum big enough for even the worst cases.  I add a case to that forum from time to time, but I come across so many where children are abused, I would have to just work in that forum alone to update.  And there are times I just don't have the heart to post still another terrible, tortuous thing a parent or relative has done to a child.  I don't know why a parent would harm or kill a child but they will and they do.  Sometimes they single out one child sometimes it's all the children.  It's heartbreaking.  It may be hard to wrap one's head around a mother harming a child, which can  include torture, selling or trading a child for drugs so some perv can have sex with their child, and murder but it happens.  It's not always a crime of lower income or drug users.  And I believe there is a lot that happens to children behind closed doors and we may never know about the abuse children face.     Casey Anthony is but one case in so many.   

[no rose colored glasses]

I just don't know what it is, in all the cases that I have followed, hate to say it, but I make up my mind very early, which I know isn't right to do. For some darn reason, this case has me confused and I'm just not set on Terri harming Kyron, and I couldn't even tell a person why 

Dear Rose,
 
    IMO, there has been so little information forthcoming that sometimes all you have are your instincts. 
    In this case, probably as in most others, this is an important key and not to be overlooked.  Especially in Kyron's case, what else do we have? (see below) 
    Also... I like to think about this:  motive/motivation, and: simplicity.  Every action or statement is motivated by something.
    And, this was a crisis.  There was no time for complexity.  The answer will be the simplest one, IMO.   

FACTS:

We have witness reports.
We have death alerts (uninvestigated by LE)
We have time and place and statements and actions by those involved. 

Why are you saying death alerts uninvestigated by LE is a fact?

WE do not know for a fact that LE hasn't investigated these so called death alerts, or not. I don't consider statements by Mr. HO as FACTS, if that's where your info is coming from. He is not LE, and has no official status in the investigation of Kyron's disappearance.
Has LE released any witness reports to the public?

I am concerned about that, and I truly believe that if there were alerts of death the police would have dealt with that, it would be irresponsible for them not too. And I have no idea what a person is supposed to believe when it comes to Harry Oakes.

[no rose colored glasses]

I just don't know what it is, in all the cases that I have followed, hate to say it, but I make up my mind very early, which I know isn't right to do. For some darn reason, this case has me confused and I'm just not set on Terri harming Kyron, and I couldn't even tell a person why 

I have such a hard time wrapping my head around a mother hurting their child, or any child for that matter......but then I look at Casey Anthony.
I don't want to think Terri directly or indirectly caused harm to Kyron, and hope to God she didn't.

In our "Crimes Against Children, Elderly and the Disabled" http://Scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?board=9.0 , there are a number of cases where mothers, fathers, relatives, caregivers and etc. have hurt or killed a child/children or they are suspected of disappearing them, and if you check some of the high profile cases, you will find some in there too.   Sometimes parents don't report children missing and if they do, it's months later, or they say they gave them to a stranger.   There are so many, many more cases out there, there wouldn't be a forum big enough for even the worst cases.  I add a case to that forum from time to time, but I come across so many where children are abused, I would have to just work in that forum alone to update.  And there are times I just don't have the heart to post still another terrible, tortuous thing a parent or relative has done to a child.  I don't know why a parent would harm or kill a child but they will and they do.  Sometimes they single out one child sometimes it's all the children.  It's heartbreaking.  It may be hard to wrap one's head around a mother harming a child, which can  include torture, selling or trading a child for drugs so some perv can have sex with their child, and murder but it happens.  It's not always a crime of lower income or drug users.  And I believe there is a lot that happens to children behind closed doors and we may never know about the abuse children face.     Casey Anthony is but one case in so many.   

Thank-you and I totally agree with you, we really only see a small portion of cases, cases that are high profile what ever the reason may be. Nothing would surprise me anymore in my life when it comes to abuse, torture and murder of children, adults and animals unfortunately  Very sick and sad world.

[no rose colored glasses]

And the absolute unfairness in my eyes where some kids get all the attention in the media, while other kids that are missing get a second or no attention whatsoever in the media. Makes me ill, it is like some kids are more important than other kids. 

[crazybabyborg]

And the absolute unfairness in my eyes where some kids get all the attention in the media, while other kids that are missing get a second or no attention whatsoever in the media. Makes me ill, it is like some kids are more important than other kids. 

Hi no rose! I have to agree with you. I don't know why some kids seem to "click" with the media so that there is a lot of coverage and others don't, but all missing children deserve everyone's focused attention. The media can play such an important role in bringing a case to resolution and it's absolutely true that the shot given to each child, varies.

[no rose colored glasses]

And the absolute unfairness in my eyes where some kids get all the attention in the media, while other kids that are missing get a second or no attention whatsoever in the media. Makes me ill, it is like some kids are more important than other kids. 

Hi no rose! I have to agree with you. I don't know why some kids seem to "click" with the media so that there is a lot of coverage and others don't, but all missing children deserve everyone's focused attention. The media can play such an important role in bringing a case to resolution and it's absolutely true that the shot given to each child, varies.

I don't want to offend anyone but IMO, I think it has to do with the color of one's skin and the amount of money in a parent's pockets. So wrong, and I'm sure there are other factors as well 

[Monkey King]

I quit posting on this case because it was like living a deja vu with Madeleine's case all over again. I already slugged it out with the best worst of the British and Portuguese trolls on the UK Mirror before that was shut down for liability and had no desire to do it all again. In my opinion, there was a lot of liability here, but not for SM, but for those that think they can just post anything they desire on the net and there are no consequences. Oh, that's right, you can be prosecuted in a civil court for malicious slander and spreading rumors and more importantly - destroying someone's character. Terri was never charged and never arrested even though so many are convinced that she is guilty. And even if she is cleared, those same posters may continue to believe that Terri somehow, someway, did it all and outsmarted everyone. They won't accept that Terri could be innocent and that she was the victim to a corrupt police force that could even rope off a crime scene.

Want to know what's gonna be shocking, especially to all you posters that said Terri has man hands, a red chest, fake red hair, let the vampire in, a step monster, pseudo diagnosed; had no knowledge of her personally and had never met, that she looks "creepy" in this picture, her facade is all as fake as her facebook postings and picture, that she "tormented" Kyron, - should I continue? Cause I could ... LOL

Wanna know? - Terri is not gonna face charges, and guess what - as I said, the police blew this case in the first 24 hours because they are incompetent. I said that months ago.

Here's the shocking part, which the police omitted in the last presser - they were singularly focused, and whoever got Kyron is GONE. G O N E.

But wait for it, waiiiit, here it comes. Here's the really shocking part. They shared investigative knowledge with the husband of the suspect. Everyone knows that the police never ever do that and compromised the investigation. Only an inept and incompetent police force uses the husband and ex-wife of the "de-facto suspect" to force her into a situation where she had to move. And feared for her life. Well, the police sure aren't gonna want to admit that, now are they. Heads could roll. By the way, Kaine was LIVING with TERRI when she and DeDe got her batphones... which was a term I always hated. So, again Kaine is the naive husband who knows nothing.

What did they have - NOTHING and they still have nothing. If they did there wouldn't have been Grand Jury and subpoenas. Which was going to be empaneled anyway to hear ALL the cases that the police couldn't solve. That happens in every jurisdiction in the country, not just Portland and not just for Kyron. They do that to make a test run and see if there is enough PROSECUTION evidence and the DEFENSE evidence is not presented. It's all one sided. And as I said to Wyks, you can indict a ham sandwich. But, in this case that wasn't even possible. That's because there isn't any evidence and as a matter of fact there is contrary evidence that says that Terri is not involved.

I started feeling badly that so many actually believed anything the police said (which happened only twice) or implied through Kaine and Desire. What kind of police force uses the parents of a missing child as the pseudo spokespersons? That's a first. And an atrocity. Most of us are brought up to believe the police and trust them, and that's where they misused their authority.

It's a shame that so many over looked the time line and placed Terri at two places at once. But what's worse is the police - knowing this weeks or months before any of you - allowed the rumors to continue and spread like wild fire. I guess they were hoping that someone would take justice into their own hands and the police could wash their hands of their own incompetency mess. When a few figured out that Terri couldn't be in two places at once, that's when they decided that Terri invited a monster in. She had to be involved and they were too emotionally invested.

Maybe, just maybe, Terri did it. I don't think she did, but that's because I wasn't singularly focused. I don't know because I wasn't there. But I do know it didn't happen like what has been presented to date. I also think that the police DID uncover additional information that points in another direction but it was too late to backtrack. So, it will be solved in ten years when "independent eyes" bring the closure that so many seek. Why ruin everyone's lives now and kick people off the force? Let that happen in a decade. That's how malfeasance and incompetency is handled these days.

And what about this lil' school of charms. Wouldn't the police try to protect them from future lawsuits (their part of the same small theocracy) - which should have been coming until Kaine said is was a safe school before and safer now. How could he even say that - his kid was stolen for that exact school.

Well, it's a strange lil world in Portland and I hope and pray that Kyron is found, really I do. But, it's gonna take the Hand of God to make this case right, but miracles still happen.

One last thing - if someone screams arrest imminent again, I'll scream. 

Edit to add missing ital. bracket.  MB

Good morning, Monkeys!

In the sentence above that I highlighted in blue, Rob speaks of the timeline putting Terri two places at once.  Does anyone know what the two places at the same time are?

I believe he is referencing being at the school at 9am and being at the FM store, or enroute to the store at 9am.

[Monkey King]

I do admit though,
After learning about this case my initial thoughts were that the perp could have been set off by something as simple as perceiving that they had been cut off in traffic.
I don't know why I thought that but it stuck with me. I still have kept my eyes wide open and will continue to take all clues in to consideration.

It never ceases to amaze me what will set someone off and they violently beat or kill someone. Road rage is a scary thing, living in So Ca I know, and you just don't know what may set a person off, you read about it all the time, silly things to you and I perhaps but for some people they just get violent. 

Rage is an emotion that is always present in our emotional repertoire, but that eventually as we age we have more control of.

Just, either caused by disease or biological make-up, for some people that never happens.

NBC had the John Gardner story on Dateline this past weekend, and at the end they showed how rage works with psychopaths like him.

During the sentencing hearing testimonies, JG looked down and grim.

But, when the girl that had hit him on the nose and got away was testifying, at the end, she mockingly asked him, "by the way,  how's your nose?"

All of a sudden JG's whole expression changed.

His lips tensed and got thinner, his eyes focused up and became sorta cross-eyed. He turned to his lawyer and said, "she didn't hit me."

He stirred in his seat as if he was seating over a just-disturbed mound of red-hot fire ants. He said, "she's saying that for publicity."

It was clear he was boiling mad... over a simple tease...

We don't really know what REALLY happened in the KH's case, but many of our theories involve rage and revenge.

If that's the case, the problem in not only KH's case, but in many others, is that some people who become rage killers lead a very normal life and many close relations would swear over a Bible that the suspect would NEVER hurt anyone else.

Of course, in many cases the evidence speaks louder than the well-intended good-willed testimonies.

And with that simple "tease" he metamorphed into the sicko-freako that he is before everyone's eyes.  Kudo's for her!

[Monkey King]

I believe it was posted previously, if an employee runs into some legal matters, weither it be personal or criminal, they are to notify Intel's legal dept. immediately.

Hi, MK!

I know what you mean, and I understand that employees may have had corporate policy pounded into their heads.

With all due respect, however, if I couldn't find my son?  I would not be pawing through the handbook to decide what to do next.

   

It could just be known or a suggestion/reminder from his supervisor initiated it.

I work in semi-large software company and we have had similar emails circulate when something happens that puts the company in the public eye. We have had a fellow worker go missing/found dead in a nearby city over a weekend and a very similar (but not as thorough) email circualted.. asking us not to make a comment and that a certain person will handle all media requests. - Granted it wasn't an ongoing investigation and it was deemed accidental from the start. (Drinking and fell into the river)

I think the company wanted a unified position in the media and that random people in various groups that may or may not know the person shouldn't be contacting the media to speak because it isn't their job to speak on behalf of the company as a whole and that it could be misrepresented or misunderstood that 1 persons answers represent the company as a whole.

However.. this is just dealing with the media. It's not like the company or individuals are telling people not to comply with or contact police if they have pertinent information about an individual.

Good point, Samantha.

[Deenie]

Hi Everybody, I agree with all the posts above. The world we live in ... ?? Idk.

I was digging yesterday and I came up with this article. I thought it would be of interest. Possibly it has been posted before. I have never read it until yesterday. 
With all the speculations of TH being involved with " Seedy" people possibly into " illegal activity ie drugs" and Landscapers. I thought this was interesting because it is a "arrest of a Man, who was using Albertson's parking lot during the day ' to sell Heroin/or do a trade/drop ' and he was accompanied by his 22 month old Daughter ....... 
With all the " unknown" travels of TH prior to landing at the house ..her own mentions of Albertson's and Fred Meyers ...
It is from March 2010.

http://www.oregonlive.com/west-linn/index.ssf/2010/03/police_arrest_illegal_immigrant_accused_of_hiding_heroin_in_babys_car_seat.html

WEST LINN -- Police arrested an illegal immigrant Thursday, accusing him of hiding 4 1/2 grams of heroin in his 22-month-old daughter's car seat.

Edgar Antonio Mendoza Ortega. Ortega, 31, previously deported and recently living in Northeast Portland, is being held without bail in the Clackamas County Jail. He is set to be arraigned today in Clackamas County Circuit Court on drug-possession, drug-dealing and child-neglect charges.

Mendoza Ortega's case also will be reviewed by federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents, who will investigate how he re-entered the United States.  Depending on their findings, Mendoza Ortega could face additional federal charges.

On Thursday afternoon, West Linn police received an alert from a concerned citizen who reported a suspicious vehicle in a residential area. After launching an investigation, police called the Clackamas County Interagency Task Force for assistance. Officers intercepted the car at the Albertson's parking lot off Blankenship Road, where they conducted a search and found the drugs.

Sgt. Neil Hennelly, West Linn police spokesman, said Mendoza Ortega intended to deliver the heroin he had hidden in his daughter's car seat.
The girl was taken into protective custody and later was released to two responsible family members.
--
I mapped out the Albertson's where this took place and it is 28 miles from Kyron's School.
I mapped out the other Albertson's from Kyron's school and they too are just over 28 miles .. 32 ..35.. miles. 25 min drive from Skyline Elementary .. 
I still " wonder" if TH is in protective " seclusion" within her parents house. With my thoughts that she is a " witness" as well as being speculated for Kyron's disappearance. Whatever dealings she was within, or who she became involved with ..is Why Kyron is Missing.

 
 

[Deenie]

  All of the speculations of TH ... something has to make sense in all of it.

I still " wonder" about the fliers being sent out by LE. What they really were looking for? Obviously they were looking for leads on Kyron. But were they looking at " Handwriting" samples as well.. that "one" would insert themselves within Kyron's case .. just offering enough of a tid bit .. of something within the turned in fliers.

How it is has been said that even in the most Heinous of Criminals, they
( who is the perp) always come back to the scene of the crime ..one way or another. Curiosity can't keep them away ..  they want to see for themselves or be within it (the investigation) along the way .. as if its a game to them. 

Where you are Kyron?
 

[Monkey King]

And the absolute unfairness in my eyes where some kids get all the attention in the media, while other kids that are missing get a second or no attention whatsoever in the media. Makes me ill, it is like some kids are more important than other kids. 

This is a big issue for me too.  The talking heads seem to think it's because some cases the media latches onto and and some they don't. 

If that's the reasoning, I think it is appalling. 

Not that I don't think Kyron's case deserves the funding and the resources put into his investigation, I do, I also believe there are a lot of other children who are missing and equally deserving of the same funding and resources alloted to locate them.

Unfortunately, the various states and local government agencies don't have these resources.  However, looking at it across the board, MCSO made a wise decision by shifting the financial responsibility to some of the other departments within the region.

Why more agencies don't do this is beyond me.

[crazybabyborg]

And the absolute unfairness in my eyes where some kids get all the attention in the media, while other kids that are missing get a second or no attention whatsoever in the media. Makes me ill, it is like some kids are more important than other kids. 

This is a big issue for me too.  The talking heads seem to think it's because some cases the media latches onto and and some they don't. 

If that's the reasoning, I think it is appalling. 

Not that I don't think Kyron's case deserves the funding and the resources put into his investigation, I do, I also believe there are a lot of other children who are missing and equally deserving of the same funding and resources alloted to locate them.

Unfortunately, the various states and local government agencies don't have these resources.  However, looking at it across the board, MCSO made a wise decision by shifting the financial responsibility to some of the other departments within the region.

Why more agencies don't do this is beyond me.

Unfortunately, media outlets tend to provide coverage based upon "newsworthiness", whatever that means. To them, I think it comes down to audience interest and that opens the door to all kinds of things. In Caylee's case, I feel sure that Casey's bizarre behavior and Cindy's insanity fed the coverage. In Natalee's case, Beth's decency and her "David against Goliath" situation was something easy for most to relate to.

I think that Terri's atty is giving her good (for her, not Kyron) advice when he tells her to lay low. Anything at all from her just spikes a reaction and more coverage. More interest doesn't serve a guilty client well.   

[Deenie]

  CBB
Not to mention " Kyron's" case has had more twists and turns ..and add the MFH plot, the RO's the people speculated ..it became much more of " Interest" to media to gain profits by putting Kyron out to the world.. sensationalism.. at its finest.

Just like you said, CBB ..like Casey Anthony's case.. it became so much more than Caylee.

 

[crazybabyborg]

CBB
Not to mention " Kyron's" case has had more twists and turns ..and add the MFH plot, the RO's the people speculated ..it became much more of " Interest" to media to gain profits by putting Kyron out to the world.. sensationalism.. at its finest.

Just like you said, CBB ..like Casey Anthony's case.. it became so much more than Caylee.

 

Exactly!   

[no rose colored glasses]

And I also think Kyron's case is in the media more then some is because he disappeared from the school, and certainly you don't see such a thing happen very often, most people think that once your child is in school he/she is safe and usually don't think your child will disappear once they are safe in school.

[fatcatlurker]

IDK if this was posted yet...sorry if duplicate.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=128569864939590200


Kyron’s family supports investigation task force
Early October fundraiser will benefit family foundation
By Jim Redden

The Portland Tribune, Sep 28, 2010, Updated 1.1 hours ago (1 Reader comment)


Kyron Horman’s parents said Tuesday that they support the decision by the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office to create a new task force for the investigation into their son’s disappearance nearly four months ago.

Sheriff Dan Staton said in early September that a small group of representatives from regional law enforcement agencies has been convened to sort through the thousands of tips and reams of documents generated by the investigation into Kyron's June 4 disappearance from Skyline School in rural Multnomah County.

“We believe this will be a more efficient use of law enforcement’s resources and it shows a continued dedication to finding Kyron. We appreciate all that the Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office has done so far in looking for our son and we will continue to root for them in all that they do to help us find him,” wrote Kaine Horman, Desiree Young and Tony Young wrote in a Sept. 28 e-mail to reporters.

The e-mail thanked Clear Channel for donating Portalnd-area billboards to the search effort. Although the billboards are coming down, the e-mail said, “For thinking of Kyron by donating and putting up the billboards and keeping them up for several months, the family thanks them. The visibility, level of commitment, and resources that the project took; we are eternally grateful.”
The e-mail also announced an Oct. 8 and 9 fundraiser for the Kyron Horman Foundation, which supports the sheriffs’ search and rescue unit. Volunteers mobilized by the unit searched for weeks around Skyline School after Kyron disappeared.

The fundraiser is sponsored by Sleeping Ridge Farms, 28995 S. Beavercreek Road, Mulino. It will donate 50 percent of the sales of plants to the foundation on Friday and Saturday, Oct. 8 and 9.

“We are in support of the Sleepy Ridge Tree Farm fundraiser and encourage the community as always to keep their eyes out for Kyron. We will have some of our volunteers on hand that day to help anyone who wants to contribute,” the e-mail said.

Kyron disappeared after his stepmother, Terri Horman, took him to school. Investigators have focused much of their efforts on her, repeatedly asking the public if they saw her that day.

Horman has not been named a suspect or a person of interest in the case.

The e-mail also urged anyone with information on the case to call the tip line at 503-261-2847.

[Tracygirl]

And I also think Kyron's case is in the media more then some is because he disappeared from the school, and certainly you don't see such a thing happen very often, most people think that once your child is in school he/she is safe and usually don't think your child will disappear once they are safe in school.

You got it NRCG! Now try to remember back to a news story regarding his gone missing from the school? All we hear about is Terri and crew. Regardless of peoples opinions, the school was responsible for him once he stepped on school grounds, even with a parent. If he had taken a bus, the school becomes responsible for him when he steps on the bus. I would like to hear the schools explanation of why and how Kyron was taken from his school, even by his step mom, if that is the case. 
 

[Deenie]

TG Hiya

I don't want to go back to rehash. But the words of Tanner .. he said " the Substitute"
Terri said Kyron was last seen walking with the " Male Chaperone" that no males were on the list for the Science Fair, volunteers/chaparones ( and Kyron was with the Male and two girls) ...... which still makes no sense to me? If I saw my son walking with a UN-known Man and it was during all the hubbub within the school..I would walk up and introduce myself.
Unless Terri had an afterthought? when she wrote her emails on the 5th ?
I don't know what to think. 

Was there a " Man" floating around the hallways that day ? impersonating himself as someone involved within the science fair? or staff?  or is it speculative hearsay ?
Its to the point you want to do this