Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #31 9/27/10 - 10/02/2010

[Brandi]

IDK if this was posted yet...sorry if duplicate.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=128569864939590200


Kyron’s family supports investigation task force
Early October fundraiser will benefit family foundation
By Jim Redden

article snipped for space

Thank you FCL!

I had not read this article.

[monchichi]

TG Hiya

I don't want to go back to rehash. But the words of Tanner .. he said " the Substitute"
Terri said Kyron was last seen walking with the " Male Chaperone" that no males were on the list for the Science Fair, volunteers/chaparones ( and Kyron was with the Male and two girls) ...... which still makes no sense to me? If I saw my son walking with a UN-known Man and it was during all the hubbub within the school..I would walk up and introduce myself.
Unless Terri had an afterthought? when she wrote her emails on the 5th ?
I don't know what to think. 

Was there a " Man" floating around the hallways that day ? impersonating himself as someone involved within the science fair? or staff?  or is it speculative hearsay ?
Its to the point you want to do this 

Wasn't this originated in an email by TH herself?  She implies "he was seen" not that she saw him with this man.  If this was the case, I would expect these 2 girls to come forward and say "YES, Kyron was in a group with us and this man".  I don't think that has happened.

[no rose colored glasses]

And I also think Kyron's case is in the media more then some is because he disappeared from the school, and certainly you don't see such a thing happen very often, most people think that once your child is in school he/she is safe and usually don't think your child will disappear once they are safe in school.

You got it NRCG! Now try to remember back to a news story regarding his gone missing from the school? All we hear about is Terri and crew. Regardless of peoples opinions, the school was responsible for him once he stepped on school grounds, even with a parent. If he had taken a bus, the school becomes responsible for him when he steps on the bus. I would like to hear the schools explanation of why and how Kyron was taken from his school, even by his step mom, if that is the case. 
 

I so agree, the school definitely has responsibility in this case, IMO.  If I had a child in that school, she would not have been going back for this new school session, that I'm sure of.

[Tracygirl]

The girls could have been a pedo's lure or his children. I think I am trying not to discount everything that comes out of Terri's mouth.

I wrote a post out yesterday and asked the question about a man on Kaines facebook who has a criminal past. Nobody answered, does anyone know anything about this man? From what I gather he lives here in California now but for a time lived in WA and Oregon. I am told he was arrested for indecent exposure and a possible child molestation? I have not confirmed this personally. Anyone know anything about this?

[monchichi]

And I also think Kyron's case is in the media more then some is because he disappeared from the school, and certainly you don't see such a thing happen very often, most people think that once your child is in school he/she is safe and usually don't think your child will disappear once they are safe in school.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.  The school was open to the public before the start of school and TH was responsible for him until school started.  I read in an early article that the final bell rung at 8:45.  She should have made sure he made it inside his classroom.  The school can't be responsible for him outside of normal school hours.  And if things were said that intentionally led the teacher to think Kyron wouldn't be in school, then that further relieves the school of responsibility.

You got it NRCG! Now try to remember back to a news story regarding his gone missing from the school? All we hear about is Terri and crew. Regardless of peoples opinions, the school was responsible for him once he stepped on school grounds, even with a parent. If he had taken a bus, the school becomes responsible for him when he steps on the bus. I would like to hear the schools explanation of why and how Kyron was taken from his school, even by his step mom, if that is the case. 
 

I so agree, the school definitely has responsibility in this case, IMO.  If I had a child in that school, she would not have been going back for this new school session, that I'm sure of.

[Kokos Cat]

IIRC Kaine stated he left work at Intel at approx. 1:45pm. He arrived home at approx. 2:00pm. (he stated it's about a 15 minute drive from Intel to home)

I'm not sure where the "11:00am" story is coming from. I have never any reports of Kaine arriving back home even remotely close to 11 o'clock that morning.

Here's a great timeline if anyone is interested....

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2010/09/07/kyron-horman-case-timeline/

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/KH/khtimeline.pdf

Thanks, Seame!  The 11:00 o'clock a.m.  is probably a mistake.  Going by memory, not good!  Thanks for the timeline.  Will check it out and also with search for that interview, unless someone's already posted it (sorry, behind again!)
 

[monchichi]

And I also think Kyron's case is in the media more then some is because he disappeared from the school, and certainly you don't see such a thing happen very often, most people think that once your child is in school he/she is safe and usually don't think your child will disappear once they are safe in school.

You got it NRCG! Now try to remember back to a news story regarding his gone missing from the school? All we hear about is Terri and crew. Regardless of peoples opinions, the school was responsible for him once he stepped on school grounds, even with a parent. If he had taken a bus, the school becomes responsible for him when he steps on the bus. I would like to hear the schools explanation of why and how Kyron was taken from his school, even by his step mom, if that is the case. 
 

I so agree, the school definitely has responsibility in this case, IMO.  If I had a child in that school, she would not have been going back for this new school session, that I'm sure of.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.  The school was open to the public before the start of school and TH was responsible for him until school started.  I read in an early article that the final bell rung at 8:45.  She should have made sure he made it inside his classroom.  The school can't be responsible for him outside of normal school hours.  And if things were said that intentionally led the teacher to think Kyron wouldn't be in school, then that further relieves the school of responsibility.

I am so sorry for getting in your box, NRCG.  That is my first time.

[no rose colored glasses]

The girls could have been a pedo's lure or his children. I think I am trying not to discount everything that comes out of Terri's mouth.

I wrote a post out yesterday and asked the question about a man on Kaines facebook who has a criminal past. Nobody answered, does anyone know anything about this man? From what I gather he lives here in California now but for a time lived in WA and Oregon. I am told he was arrested for indecent exposure and a possible child molestation? I have not confirmed this personally. Anyone know anything about this?

No I sure don't 

[Deenie]

TG Hiya

I don't want to go back to rehash. But the words of Tanner .. he said " the Substitute"
Terri said Kyron was last seen walking with the " Male Chaperone" that no males were on the list for the Science Fair, volunteers/chaparones ( and Kyron was with the Male and two girls) ...... which still makes no sense to me? If I saw my son walking with a UN-known Man and it was during all the hubbub within the school..I would walk up and introduce myself.
Unless Terri had an afterthought? when she wrote her emails on the 5th ?
I don't know what to think. 

Was there a " Man" floating around the hallways that day ? impersonating himself as someone involved within the science fair? or staff?  or is it speculative hearsay ?
Its to the point you want to do this 

Wasn't this originated in an email by TH herself?  She implies "he was seen" not that she saw him with this man.  If this was the case, I would expect these 2 girls to come forward and say "YES, Kyron was in a group with us and this man".  I don't think that has happened.

Hi Monchichi, you are correct ( see snip below)
I would hope if there was any truth to Terri's claims, LE found these people and interviewed them. Been so much said and unsaid ..

http://www.katu.com/news/100323934.html?
snip:
PORTLAND, Ore. - Long before news of the alleged murder-for-hire plot and sexting affairs, it seems Terri Moulton Horman knew suspicions were settled on her, according to e-mails written by Horman and obtained first by KATU News.

“They are blaming me in the blogs. I just want to scream,” she wrote in one e-mail to a KATU News source the day after her stepson, Kyron Horman, was reported to be vanished from Skyline School during a science fair. Investigators say Terri Horman was the last person to see Kyron.

“The teacher thought I said I was going to take Kyron with Kitty for a doctor’s appt.,” she wrote on June 5, 2010. “I said I was going to look at other exhibits - how do you mess that up? His coat and backpack were still at school. I left the school at 9 and he was seen with a man ‘chaperone’ and 2 girls after I left. There were no men on the chaperone list. That and it was highly chaotic - had to been 300 people running around - no coordination ...”
--

Why would Terri write to Katu ..send them emails on June 5th. 
Did Terri write to Katu News? I am so confused "on the wording" of the article. Or did Katu obtain "the email/s" written by TH ? from a source who is connected to Katu news ?

Is this TH setting up an alibi? Or is she telling the truth? Or mixing up the hearsay ..which I don't know how much hearsay could have been created in less than 24 hours.
Her writing the email/emails on the 5th of June. That she states " she" is being torn up by " bloggers" that it upset her so ..  makes no sense to me. 

http://www.mcso.us/public/newsroom/Kyron_PIO_timeline.pdf

1) What time was 9-1-1 called?

Answer: BOEC received call at 1556 (3:56 p.m.). Dispatched to police units at 1559 (3:59 p.m.).

2) When did the first officers arrive on scene?

Answer: Portland Police Bureau and Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office units arrived at 1633 (4:33 p.m.) simultaneously at Skyline school and Kyron’s home.

3) Who made the call?

Answer: Skyline School secretary Susan Hall.

4) What time was FBI notified?

Answer: Between 2030 (8:30 p.m.) and 2050 (8:50 p.m.).

5) When did Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office notify media?

Answer:
Multnomah County Sheriff’s Office PIO was notified between 1900 (7:00 p.m.) and 1915 (7:15 p.m.) while providing a tour at the Multnomah County Justice Center. PIO returned pages from media and told them to meet PIO in the area of the school. PIO arrived at 2015 (8:15 p.m.), met with present media and provided them with Kyron’s photo. This was followed up by the PIO emailing photo to Portland TV and Oregonlive

[no rose colored glasses]

I'm not arguing or anything, but when my two girls were little and the bus dropped them off at school, they would get there early and school hadn't started yet, so while they were at their lockers and stuff the school wasn't responsible for them? Also I wouldn't have thought anything of leaving my child at the school after looking at the science projects, I would have done what Terri did, said goodbye and went about my day. Never would the thought that someone would take my kid once they were in the school like that.

[Kokos Cat]

I just don't know what it is, in all the cases that I have followed, hate to say it, but I make up my mind very early, which I know isn't right to do. For some darn reason, this case has me confused and I'm just not set on Terri harming Kyron, and I couldn't even tell a person why 

Dear Rose,
 
    IMO, there has been so little information forthcoming that sometimes all you have are your instincts. 
    In this case, probably as in most others, this is an important key and not to be overlooked.  Especially in Kyron's case, what else do we have? (see below) 
    Also... I like to think about this:  motive/motivation, and: simplicity.  Every action or statement is motivated by something.
    And, this was a crisis.  There was no time for complexity.  The answer will be the simplest one, IMO.   

FACTS:

We have witness reports.
We have death alerts (uninvestigated by LE)
We have time and place and statements and actions by those involved. 

Why are you saying death alerts uninvestigated by LE is a fact?

WE do not know for a fact that LE hasn't investigated these so called death alerts, or not. I don't consider statements by Mr. HO as FACTS, if that's where your info is coming from. He is not LE, and has no official status in the investigation of Kyron's disappearance.
Has LE released any witness reports to the public?

Dear Seame:
 

Police reports are public record.  Check it out, I would love to know your findings!  HO files a report each time.  There is a huge list of bungled cases on his blog,  Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis being the highest profile cases, probably.  Now, with Kyron, this is an ongoing criminal investigation and we are not going to have access to those records.  Others, though, may be obtained. 

 

LE ignored Oakes report for FIVE MONTHS until Ward Weaver struck again, according to MSNBC, see below.  Even then, the only reason, IMO, that they eventually dug up the concrete slab and searched the rest of the property was because the public held a vigil on Weaver's property -- twice.  Then they came in and found Miranda, Ashley and Jane Doe. 

 

Incidentally, according to Oakes and this article by MSNBC, LE had had 7 search dog teams (K-9 SAR) on Ward Weaver's property to no avail.  Oakes responded to a request by Ashley Ponds mom to examine the property.

We have a huge problem with this in Oregon, and will continue to do so, unless something changes.  I was hoping/am still hoping Kyron's case will bring the notoriety needed to change SAR in Oregon so it doesn't continue, ad naseum.   

Regarding Oakes, personally, I think it would be nice to get someone like Tim Miller in, instead. 

LE has not released any witness reports, as far as I know.   But the witnesses are out there and they talk. 
 

Anyway, I am so tired of all this.  I am sick of repeating this.  I am no fan of HO.  He is very rough around the edges, to say the least.  But I really don't give a rat's arse about his personality or the politics involved, I just want Kyron to be found and the right person/people prosecuted. 

Unfortunately, any searches conducted by LE are, IMO meaningless.   
I know I'm rattling the cage and I know some will be offended.  But I am through tippy toeing around about this.  I'm disgusted and done.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/
   

[snipped]
Many police departments don’t like him, says Oakes, and don’t use him. But in this case he waived his fee, did some background work, showed the dog some of Ashley’s clothing, and went to work.

    Harry Oakes, private investigator: The track led from the apartment complex up the road, the staircase, to Ward’s property.

That name again.

Harry, with his Valerie now excited and on the chase, knocked at Weaver’s door and asked for permission to search the house.

    Harry Oakes: He said, “I don’t have any problem with you searching, they’ve already brought in 7 different search dog teams. I have nothing to hide.” During the search of the house she gave me a death alert of Ashley’s scent in Ward’s hallway.

    Morrison: Did Valerie alert anywhere else?

    Oakes: Yes. When we went outside to the back area, there was a slab that had been poured.

    Morrison: A concrete slab?

    Oakes: A concrete slab. And where the slab met with the grass, the dirt where they came together, my dog was smelling Ashley’s scent coming out of there.

    Morrison: Did you call 911?

    Oakes: I made a report and turned it into Oregon City police department.

A record of Harry’s report shows it was indeed turned in to police on March 20th, less than two weeks after Miranda disappeared.

    Morrison: Was there any reaction from the police?

    Oakes: They basically ignored us.

    Morrison: What about the FBI?

    Oakes: Ignored us.

[Brandi]

I'm not arguing or anything, but when my two girls were little and the bus dropped them off at school, they would get there early and school hadn't started yet, so while they were at their lockers and stuff the school wasn't responsible for them? Also I wouldn't have thought anything of leaving my child at the school after looking at the science projects, I would have done what Terri did, said goodbye and went about my day. Never would the thought that someone would take my kid once they were in the school like that.

I'd think any school would be responsible for the safety of students when they are on school property when the school is open and they had business there.

JMO though.

[no rose colored glasses]

I'm not arguing or anything, but when my two girls were little and the bus dropped them off at school, they would get there early and school hadn't started yet, so while they were at their lockers and stuff the school wasn't responsible for them? Also I wouldn't have thought anything of leaving my child at the school after looking at the science projects, I would have done what Terri did, said goodbye and went about my day. Never would the thought that someone would take my kid once they were in the school like that.

I'd think any school would be responsible for the safety of students when they are on school property when the school is open and they had business there.

JMO though.

That is how I would think it should be.

[monchichi]

I'm not arguing or anything, but when my two girls were little and the bus dropped them off at school, they would get there early and school hadn't started yet, so while they were at their lockers and stuff the school wasn't responsible for them? Also I wouldn't have thought anything of leaving my child at the school after looking at the science projects, I would have done what Terri did, said goodbye and went about my day. Never would the thought that someone would take my kid once they were in the school like that.

I'd think any school would be responsible for the safety of students when they are on school property when the school is open and they had business there.

JMO though.

I can see your points.  I have two children, one Kyron's age and one younger.  Our school often has events that are open to the public.  Kids come with their extended families.  There are too many people for the school staff to keep track of.  I keep track of my own kids and I expect others do the same.  These events are always outside of school hours.  If parents want to come to the school during school hours they are required to sign in at the front desk.  I disagree, but I will leave it at that.

[Deenie]

* subtracting speculations of TH's dealings or non dealings -
*If your child was reported missing as Kyron is/was " June 4th" approx bet 4pm-5pm that you would be able to declare " Yes, he is not lost as in " got on the wrong bus" or went home with another student .. (but he is def MISSING as in possibly kidnapped etc) .. All LE is notified within your local area.

What would be your priorities? " #1 Finding Your Child ", and Calling upon those that you know to help Find him, and support you and your family" ... I would think.. If I were able to rip myself out of Shock ..  but then when crisis hits " adrenaline kicks in" for most people ... and they find " focus and energy" .. some not all.

My thoughts on TH writing emails on June 5th ..is complex in many ways... The only thing I can think of it was the " evening of June 5th" and Terri was reading on her local news sites and felt compelled to defend herself.. so she wrote to  " Katu/source" ..

What is so **disturbing to me is within her " written words" ... ( understanding that these are snips taken from her email/emails, not her full email) - shame on the media if they cherry picked her words for sensationalism- and left out " if she wrote them" her words of I want my Kyron home, I miss him, Love Him)
   
**Disturbing IF She felt so compelled to Write to a Katu source " IF" her only reason was to write to a source - was to Defend herself. Her person on June 5th, her character should be the last thing of her concerns.. I would think. She was obviously posting on her facebook and was receiving support from many people.

If her reason to write to Katu/Source was to Ask them for Help, Or ask them " Do You know Anything that WE the Horman Family have not been Told by LE? " or have you heard anything or I want you to know "WE" have set this up for Kyron ..a search yadda thing..that would be entirely different.

But the way this " Email" sent on June 5th is portrayed on the Katu site, it is far from TH asking for assistance, finding Kyron or news updates ..

It is for Terri to redeem herself and create or substantiate what happened on June 4th within her words..Which again would be fine if " Kyron " was the focus. Her focus seems to be " I have to Defend Myself " ..again at this time " June 5th" who was pointing fingers at her that she Felt so strongly she needed to go there. That she felt so crucified ? Was it the Locals in her area? Who? strange. Why would she care? honestly. Nothing was known by the public or anyone truly within the media.. on June 5th.
  throwing outs thoughts .. idk what to think any more.
Not so sure about the old adage " No news is good news, when it comes to Kyron".
 
 

 

[Lenie]

I'm not arguing or anything, but when my two girls were little and the bus dropped them off at school, they would get there early and school hadn't started yet, so while they were at their lockers and stuff the school wasn't responsible for them? Also I wouldn't have thought anything of leaving my child at the school after looking at the science projects, I would have done what Terri did, said goodbye and went about my day. Never would the thought that someone would take my kid once they were in the school like that.

I'd think any school would be responsible for the safety of students when they are on school property when the school is open and they had business there.

JMO though.

When I was younger (much younger I was suspended for smoking while I was walking home from school. No where near the school a teacher went by and saw me and the next day I was called into the office and suspended. My mom fought it even though she was really mad at me. We had a hearing before the superintendent of schools. He said that the law stated that from the minute a student stepped on school property until the time they walked in the door after school that the school was liable. Needless to say my mother got a copy of the law and it stated step on and step off (riding a bus is still considered school). They had to forgive my suspension and any work that I missed during the time. That was in Ohio and many moons ago so I am not sure what the law is now.

[Deenie]

I'm not arguing or anything, but when my two girls were little and the bus dropped them off at school, they would get there early and school hadn't started yet, so while they were at their lockers and stuff the school wasn't responsible for them? Also I wouldn't have thought anything of leaving my child at the school after looking at the science projects, I would have done what Terri did, said goodbye and went about my day. Never would the thought that someone would take my kid once they were in the school like that.

I'd think any school would be responsible for the safety of students when they are on school property when the school is open and they had business there.

JMO though.

That is how I would think it should be.

I would think that there is "certain" liability once your child is in the school -On a day that school is in session- " M-F" even before or after classes. Me thinking NoRose though of my Daughter in Latch key for years. ( not the one school that she was hurt) but the elementary that I trusted. I know when I dropped of K early for the latch key program ( at 7am) the liability was of the Latch Key program first and then the school 2nd. Bec the latch key program was not " part of the public school system per say" yet was a service provided by them. 
 So confusing .. arrrghh.. it doesn't end though. I would think that on any college campus
" with labs/library's open all hours/days for students" Liability would still fall somewhere within the College for safety/security..if something happened to a " student" within the school..
The gal who was murdered " Annie Le"  VA Tech student.. I guess that would be civil suit ? I am sure someone has been sued no doubt within VA Tech ..outside of the pos who took her life. It's confusing all of it. Should be known by all parents. Yet it then goes into " What State, County yadda you live within" ....because all are different sets of rules.
 

[Deenie]

I'm not arguing or anything, but when my two girls were little and the bus dropped them off at school, they would get there early and school hadn't started yet, so while they were at their lockers and stuff the school wasn't responsible for them? Also I wouldn't have thought anything of leaving my child at the school after looking at the science projects, I would have done what Terri did, said goodbye and went about my day. Never would the thought that someone would take my kid once they were in the school like that.

I'd think any school would be responsible for the safety of students when they are on school property when the school is open and they had business there.

JMO though.

When I was younger (much younger I was suspended for smoking while I was walking home from school. No where near the school a teacher went by and saw me and the next day I was called into the office and suspended. My mom fought it even though she was really mad at me. We had a hearing before the superintendent of schools. He said that the law stated that from the minute a student stepped on school property until the time they walked in the door after school that the school was liable. Needless to say my mother got a copy of the law and it stated step on and step off (riding a bus is still considered school). They had to forgive my suspension and any work that I missed during the time. That was in Ohio and many moons ago so I am not sure what the law is now.

Yep Lenie    I so remember that too .. if you were caught Smoking at the bus stop .. or on campus of the High School even far from the grounds/yet near -You would be " in deep trouble" I didn't smoke then, but all my friends did. I have to add too with all this " said " of this " guy" phantom walking around Kyron's school the day of the Science Fair.
My Brother in 12th grade, he had a 4.0 and many credits so his 12th grade year was not a full day at the end towards the month of June..he had to go and have his Sr photo's taken at the photographer. He then had to come back in for his classes that day. He was wearing blue jeans, cowboy boots, a off white blazer, shirt and leather tie .. which was way out of his normal attire. He walked in the school " within the minutes before the next classes to start" .. he was captured by Our Principle of all People (his tour over 35yrs in our school) .. The Principle pulled him aside and took him into the office and demanded his ID.. he thought he was someone trolling for students .. He didn't recognize him at all. My Brother was really upset about it. Because the Principle took a instant violent reaction ..grabbed him ..and shoved him into the office. 
As if he was a criminal. I recall my parents even got involved. I guess that goes to show you " even those who belong" are not necessarily noticed until they stand out.
   

[Lenie]

I grabbed this from the Skyline School handbook. Not sure if it had the same wording last year. I put the word in bold.

The safety of your child(ren)
before, during, and after school
is a critical concern of Skyline
staff. It has prompted us to establish
guidelines that we believe
will facilitate a safe situation
for all children. Please read
these guidelines and assist your
child(ren) in understanding
them.
Before and After
School Guidelines
Skyline School is unable to provide
supervision for children
arriving on school grounds prior
to 8:35am or after 3:15pm. (K
through This includes before
and after school hours, weekends,
holidays, and hours school
is not in session. Please do not
send students to school earlier
than the 8:35am early arrival
time or leave children after the
dismissal times. The Portland
Public Schools District is not
responsible for incidents, accidents
or injuries during unsupervised
times. Thank you for your
cooperation in this matter.

[Grey]

All of this conversation about smoking and schools reminds me of the time in high school when my principal called me aside and asked me if I had any cigarettes with me. Scared me to death since there was a pack in my purse. He told me to relax. He had run out of cigarettes and wanted some. He got them, and I never told.