Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #31 9/27/10 - 10/02/2010

[Brandi]

Flyer for fundraiser.

[Claycat]

Kaine was home by 1400...obviously he knows Terri was with Kiara...so why did he not go and pick up his son and go get ice cream as was HIS plan?  Come on????   Was Terri responsible for doing everything???  If Kiara was not feeling well, why didn't one KH or TH say..."you stay with the baby, I am going to go pick up Kyron at the school?"  No, they both stayed home and both walked as a united front down to the bus stop.  Wonder how common that was.  Well, on that day...they both walked together to the bus stop...each an alibi for the other when Kyron did not step off that bus.  This is my opinion and the whole going to the bus stop together when one of them should have been going to the school to get Kyron is what I find off the charts....STRANGE!

It is strange to me, too, novella!

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks Brandi

[seemeatthebeach]

Kaine was home by 1400...obviously he knows Terri was with Kiara...so why did he not go and pick up his son and go get ice cream as was HIS plan?  Come on????   Was Terri responsible for doing everything???  If Kiara was not feeling well, why didn't one KH or TH say..."you stay with the baby, I am going to go pick up Kyron at the school?"  No, they both stayed home and both walked as a united front down to the bus stop.  Wonder how common that was.  Well, on that day...they both walked together to the bus stop...each an alibi for the other when Kyron did not step off that bus.  This is my opinion and the whole going to the bus stop together when one of them should have been going to the school to get Kyron is what I find off the charts....STRANGE!

It is strange to me, too, novella!

I don't think it's strange....I have 2 different neighbors, the husbands (fathers) work 3rd shift.
Both families (mother & father with their toddlers) walk to the bus stop every day to meet their elementary school kids.....

[novella]

Kaine was home by 1400...obviously he knows Terri was with Kiara...so why did he not go and pick up his son and go get ice cream as was HIS plan?  Come on????   Was Terri responsible for doing everything???  If Kiara was not feeling well, why didn't one KH or TH say..."you stay with the baby, I am going to go pick up Kyron at the school?"  No, they both stayed home and both walked as a united front down to the bus stop.  Wonder how common that was.  Well, on that day...they both walked together to the bus stop...each an alibi for the other when Kyron did not step off that bus.  This is my opinion and the whole going to the bus stop together when one of them should have been going to the school to get Kyron is what I find off the charts....STRANGE!

It is strange to me, too, novella!

I don't think it's strange....I have 2 different neighbors, the husbands (fathers) work 3rd shift.
Both families (mother & father with their toddlers) walk to the bus stop every day to meet their elementary school kids.....

Yes...but on the day their child had a science fair and talent show...not to mention a sick baby!  That is what I find strange...It was a big day at the school...and no one even goes to the talent show which Kyron was part of...and no one picks him up from school...didn't Kaine mention that they were going to have ice cream afterwards?  So when were they planning on driving Kyron to meet Desiree?  At 1700...when Friday traffic really picks up?  Why not go get Kyron after school, eat ice cream and start heading to the meet point?  Were Kyron's bags packed for his weekend with his mom?  What was that plan?  If Terri was supposed to drive him...was she taking Kiara, too...and Kaine was going to do what???  Just sit home...why didn't he want to go with them all?  I don't know...the family dynamics seem very odd.

[novella]

Also...the science fair happens once a year...it was the end of school.  Terri is at home with the baby...running errands and going to the gym is way more important to her than the science fair and talent show.  And Kaine is off work at 1400...doesn't even pretend like he is interested in going to pick up his son from school...just we were going to eat ice cream before I sent him off to his mother's...what was more important to Kaine...sitting at home...doing what?  Who knows.  So...Parent Monkeys...do you blow off your children's science fairs and talent shows????  I am just curious...not usually a gambler...but I would bet that most of you will say no...well, I hope anyway!!!

  And that is me...digging my own hole for when you all throw bananas at me!   

[Lenie]

Also...the science fair happens once a year...it was the end of school.  Terri is at home with the baby...running errands and going to the gym is way more important to her than the science fair and talent show.  And Kaine is off work at 1400...doesn't even pretend like he is interested in going to pick up his son from school...just we were going to eat ice cream before I sent him off to his mother's...what was more important to Kaine...sitting at home...doing what?  Who knows.  So...Parent Monkeys...do you blow off your children's science fairs and talent shows????  I am just curious...not usually a gambler...but I would bet that most of you will say no...well, I hope anyway!!!

  And that is me...digging my own hole for when you all throw bananas at me!   

I agree with you Novella. What I am about to say has nothing to do with Th's guilt or innocence, just seems like an observation to me. When TH met KH under whatever circumstances, she was only suppose to be a week end mommy, which escalated into full time when Desiree got sick. Seems to me since that time that TH has been the main caregiver for Kyron. As is the situation in a lot of families. Not because the father does not want to be, but the father is usually the main bread winner. I think somewhere in the last few months before Kyron disappeared that something went horribly wrong.

Again I am not professing TH's innocence or guilt.

[seemeatthebeach]

Kaine was home by 1400...obviously he knows Terri was with Kiara...so why did he not go and pick up his son and go get ice cream as was HIS plan?  Come on????   Was Terri responsible for doing everything???  If Kiara was not feeling well, why didn't one KH or TH say..."you stay with the baby, I am going to go pick up Kyron at the school?"  No, they both stayed home and both walked as a united front down to the bus stop.  Wonder how common that was.  Well, on that day...they both walked together to the bus stop...each an alibi for the other when Kyron did not step off that bus.  This is my opinion and the whole going to the bus stop together when one of them should have been going to the school to get Kyron is what I find off the charts....STRANGE!

It is strange to me, too, novella!

I don't think it's strange....I have 2 different neighbors, the husbands (fathers) work 3rd shift.
Both families (mother & father with their toddlers) walk to the bus stop every day to meet their elementary school kids.....

Yes...but on the day their child had a science fair and talent show...not to mention a sick baby!  That is what I find strange...It was a big day at the school...and no one even goes to the talent show which Kyron was part of...and no one picks him up from school...didn't Kaine mention that they were going to have ice cream afterwards?  So when were they planning on driving Kyron to meet Desiree?  At 1700...when Friday traffic really picks up?  Why not go get Kyron after school, eat ice cream and start heading to the meet point?  Were Kyron's bags packed for his weekend with his mom?  What was that plan?  If Terri was supposed to drive him...was she taking Kiara, too...and Kaine was going to do what???  Just sit home...why didn't he want to go with them all?  I don't know...the family dynamics seem very odd.

We don't know if Kiara was going with Terri to take Kyron to meet his his mom.
We don't know what time they were supposed to meet up. Desiree might have to work until 5pm or later. It was a 2 hour drive for both of them IIRC, so I imagine Terri wouldn't leave the house until Desiree left work. Was it a weekend that Desiree's other son was going? We don't know. What we do know is we have 3 different family members schedules to consider if both boys were going to Desiree's for the weekend.
We don't have enough information to know anything as fact at this point.
Everyone's family dynamics are different.
Maybe the weekends Terri drove Kyron to meet his mom, Kaine stayed home or did something special with Kiara. We just don't know.

[seemeatthebeach]

Also...the science fair happens once a year...it was the end of school.  Terri is at home with the baby...running errands and going to the gym is way more important to her than the science fair and talent show.  And Kaine is off work at 1400...doesn't even pretend like he is interested in going to pick up his son from school...just we were going to eat ice cream before I sent him off to his mother's...what was more important to Kaine...sitting at home...doing what?  Who knows.  So...Parent Monkeys...do you blow off your children's science fairs and talent shows????  I am just curious...not usually a gambler...but I would bet that most of you will say no...well, I hope anyway!!!

  And that is me...digging my own hole for when you all throw bananas at me!   

I agree with you Novella. What I am about to say has nothing to do with Th's guilt or innocence, just seems like an observation to me. When TH met KH under whatever circumstances, she was only suppose to be a week end mommy, which escalated into full time when Desiree got sick. Seems to me since that time that TH has been the main caregiver for Kyron. As is the situation in a lot of families. Not because the father does not want to be, but the father is usually the main bread winner. I think somewhere in the last few months before Kyron disappeared that something went horribly wrong.

Again I am not professing TH's innocence or guilt.

Kaine was working from home that afternoon, something Intel encourages their employees to do. He has stated, he came home from work, went into his office and worked until Kyron's bus came. The science fair was over at 10am. How could he go to the science fair at 2:00pm? It was over and Terri took the truck to bring the project home....and didn't.
Kaine had no knowledge of the talent show, and if IIRC, neither did Desiree.
So Terri must not have told them.....why?

I find nothing suspicious about Kaine's actions and behavior that day. It was not unusual for him to work from home some afternoons.

[novella]

Also...the science fair happens once a year...it was the end of school.  Terri is at home with the baby...running errands and going to the gym is way more important to her than the science fair and talent show.  And Kaine is off work at 1400...doesn't even pretend like he is interested in going to pick up his son from school...just we were going to eat ice cream before I sent him off to his mother's...what was more important to Kaine...sitting at home...doing what?  Who knows.  So...Parent Monkeys...do you blow off your children's science fairs and talent shows????  I am just curious...not usually a gambler...but I would bet that most of you will say no...well, I hope anyway!!!

  And that is me...digging my own hole for when you all throw bananas at me!   

I agree with you Novella. What I am about to say has nothing to do with Th's guilt or innocence, just seems like an observation to me. When TH met KH under whatever circumstances, she was only suppose to be a week end mommy, which escalated into full time when Desiree got sick. Seems to me since that time that TH has been the main caregiver for Kyron. As is the situation in a lot of families. Not because the father does not want to be, but the father is usually the main bread winner. I think somewhere in the last few months before Kyron disappeared that something went horribly wrong.

Again I am not professing TH's innocence or guilt.

Kaine was working from home that afternoon, something Intel encourages their employees to do. He has stated, he came home from work, went into his office and worked until Kyron's bus came. The science fair was over at 10am. How could he go to the science fair at 2:00pm? It was over and Terri took the truck to bring the project home....and didn't.
Kaine had no knowledge of the talent show, and if IIRC, neither did Desiree.
So Terri must not have told them.....why?

I find nothing suspicious about Kaine's actions and behavior that day. It was not unusual for him to work from home some afternoons.

See...I have a problem with Kaine not knowing about the talent show...Kaine is Kyron's father...Terri is the stepmother...If I am the child's parent...I am going to know about their day to day activities...but that is me...maybe Kaine operated differently.  As you pointed out...we just don't know anything.  Regarding the science fair...last time I checked...most employers allow you to take time off for an afternoon or morning and make up those hours...again...Intel could be different.  It just seems to me that Kaine and Desiree were putting everything regarding Kyron on Terri...to include his daily schedule...so I have to really wonder who was doing the real parenting...the nitty gritty...hmmm the weekend mom...the dad...oh yeah...the dad who relied on his soon to be ex-wife to drop his son off at his ex-wife's meeting place.  And possibly, Terri did tell them, but their daily lives do not indicate to me that they really did the day to day parenting of Kyron...maybe it was in one ear and out the other.  Keep in mind...I think Desiree is completely innocent and grieving because of this unimaginable horror.  But Kaine, Terri, the school or even LE, at this point, have a free pass at this point.  Yes, LE is working hard...but I believe there were some mistakes made.  The school...well after reading how they are not responsible for children on their grounds...I would NEVER send my children to that school and I can't believe parents are still sending their children to that school.  If my children can not be safe when they are on school grounds...when I have entrusted them to the school...well safety is number 1. 

What I find suspicious is that in Kyron's day to day life...the only one who appears to have done the nitty-gritty day by day parenting of Kyron...was Terri...not his real father and not his real mother.

I am not a Terri supporter.  I am not a Kaine supporter.  I am a Kyron supporter and will be until he is home safe and well or the criminals that hurt him are brought to justice. 

I agree with you, seemeathebeach (wish I was at the beach!! LOL)...we don't really know anything about that day...just he said, she said.

[no rose colored glasses]

As I said yesterday, no way would my kids be going back to that school. I find it very odd about not knowing about the talent show, kids that age would be talking about it non stop and practicing. A lot of parents would go, but understandably some couldn't because of work.

[monchichi]

Also...the science fair happens once a year...it was the end of school.  Terri is at home with the baby...running errands and going to the gym is way more important to her than the science fair and talent show.  And Kaine is off work at 1400...doesn't even pretend like he is interested in going to pick up his son from school...just we were going to eat ice cream before I sent him off to his mother's...what was more important to Kaine...sitting at home...doing what?  Who knows.  So...Parent Monkeys...do you blow off your children's science fairs and talent shows????  I am just curious...not usually a gambler...but I would bet that most of you will say no...well, I hope anyway!!!

  And that is me...digging my own hole for when you all throw bananas at me!   

I agree with you Novella. What I am about to say has nothing to do with Th's guilt or innocence, just seems like an observation to me. When TH met KH under whatever circumstances, she was only suppose to be a week end mommy, which escalated into full time when Desiree got sick. Seems to me since that time that TH has been the main caregiver for Kyron. As is the situation in a lot of families. Not because the father does not want to be, but the father is usually the main bread winner. I think somewhere in the last few months before Kyron disappeared that something went horribly wrong.

Again I am not professing TH's innocence or guilt.

Kaine was working from home that afternoon, something Intel encourages their employees to do. He has stated, he came home from work, went into his office and worked until Kyron's bus came. The science fair was over at 10am. How could he go to the science fair at 2:00pm? It was over and Terri took the truck to bring the project home....and didn't.
Kaine had no knowledge of the talent show, and if IIRC, neither did Desiree.
So Terri must not have told them.....why?

I find nothing suspicious about Kaine's actions and behavior that day. It was not unusual for him to work from home some afternoons.

See...I have a problem with Kaine not knowing about the talent show...Kaine is Kyron's father...Terri is the stepmother...If I am the child's parent...I am going to know about their day to day activities...but that is me...maybe Kaine operated differently.  As you pointed out...we just don't know anything.  Regarding the science fair...last time I checked...most employers allow you to take time off for an afternoon or morning and make up those hours...again...Intel could be different.  It just seems to me that Kaine and Desiree were putting everything regarding Kyron on Terri...to include his daily schedule...so I have to really wonder who was doing the real parenting...the nitty gritty...hmmm the weekend mom...the dad...oh yeah...the dad who relied on his soon to be ex-wife to drop his son off at his ex-wife's meeting place.  And possibly, Terri did tell them, but their daily lives do not indicate to me that they really did the day to day parenting of Kyron...maybe it was in one ear and out the other.  Keep in mind...I think Desiree is completely innocent and grieving because of this unimaginable horror.  But Kaine, Terri, the school or even LE, at this point, have a free pass at this point.  Yes, LE is working hard...but I believe there were some mistakes made.  The school...well after reading how they are not responsible for children on their grounds...I would NEVER send my children to that school and I can't believe parents are still sending their children to that school.  If my children can not be safe when they are on school grounds...when I have entrusted them to the school...well safety is number 1. 

What I find suspicious is that in Kyron's day to day life...the only one who appears to have done the nitty-gritty day by day parenting of Kyron...was Terri...not his real father and not his real mother.

I am not a Terri supporter.  I am not a Kaine supporter.  I am a Kyron supporter and will be until he is home safe and well or the criminals that hurt him are brought to justice. 

I agree with you, seemeathebeach (wish I was at the beach!! LOL)...we don't really know anything about that day...just he said, she said.

Well, Terri got herself involved with a married man who's wife was about to have a baby.  She never really worked full time outside of the home, did she?  It makes sense to me that she would be involved in the "nitty-gritty day by day parenting."  And I would not be surprised if she was able to keep Kaine from knowing about the talent show.  Kids often don't talk about school or what's going on.  How many times do we as parents hear they didn't do anything at school?

[fatcatlurker]

Hello All,   Does anyone know when exactly Skyline Elem put up the announcement of the Science Fair?  Just wondering how long that invitation was was up for the general public.  Also, in the begining of this case, it was reported there was a Carnival in town the week Kyron disappeared.  I am on my cell at the moment, can someone pick this up and see what you can find out.  TIA, MK

MK photo provided by CrankyCrankerson " our unknown vigilante photo keeper on photobucket" who I give props to. Hope this helps

I know I'm a pain but where does it say that this school event was "Open to the Public?"  Our school has a board also.  Electronic and it clearly states events open to the public such as the evening talent shows.  Is it in some language I do not understand?  JMO.

[Tracygirl]

First let me say it doesn't matter what the district says about the chain of responsibiltiy, it would be within the states education codes adopted from the federal education codes.
Kyron was at a planned event which began at 8:00 it could be challenged, if anyone felt the need, that the time stated previously by district policy was overriden by the 8:00 in time. For instance, was someone telling the parents you need to stay for a certain amount of time because the staff that is here already is not responsible? As a parent wouldn't you consider staff was going to watch the kids if you attended at 8 but had to leave to work at 8:30? I don't let the school off the hook. They were responsible for Kyron, even by their standards, LE states Terri left at 8:45, so to that the point is mute.

MK great thought about the email. I wonder if the teacher did email Terri back. She may not have which Terri could have assumed it was not ok to pick it up. I wish I could see the email(s), I bet there is some information in there that can answer some of this.

I don't know why Kyron was not picked up. My guess is he took the bus everyday so it was just the normal thing to do.
Why didn't Kyron mention to his mom or dad that he was going to be in a talent show? My children have been in a few little plays or shows, I have to admit one I missed. I completely forgot about it. I was sick that day, horrible guilt to this day over that and it was 3 years ago! So, I wonder if Kaine just forgot about it and now doesn't want to say that because of how it would look? 

[Scatty]

Also, when teachers have highly stressful, extremely busy days like that day, they might not be checking email.  IMO, scheduling two major activities in one day, like the school did, wasn't a very good move on the part of the administration.  That way, the kids stayed hyped-up all day instead of just part of it.

Besides, we really don't know all of the particulars.  These are just a part of many things LE has not told us.

From my understanding Terri had emailed Ms Porter because Kyron wanted to show Desiree his project and Terri wanted to know if she could pick it up- the reason for having the pickup truck.

Apparently she did email Ms Porter and ask her.

And apparently she recieved a reply, otherwise, Terri would have gone back to the school and picked up the project and probably Kyron at the same time, rather than have him ride the bus home.

Is there a link to an article that states Terri emailed Ms. Porter about the project? Or is this based on something Terri said?

[Tracygirl]

Regarding the truck. I don't think it is clear that the project was there already that morning. I have read 2 different versions,
1. Terri was supposed to bring the project on the 3rd but didn't, so she arrived early on the 4th to set it up and then took the time to walk around viewing the projects.
2. She brought it on the 3rd and asked for the truck for the next day because she wanted to bring the project home to show Desiree.

Why is it we question these? Now I am questioning own thoughts on this.

[Tracygirl]

Also, when teachers have highly stressful, extremely busy days like that day, they might not be checking email.  IMO, scheduling two major activities in one day, like the school did, wasn't a very good move on the part of the administration.  That way, the kids stayed hyped-up all day instead of just part of it.

Besides, we really don't know all of the particulars.  These are just a part of many things LE has not told us.

From my understanding Terri had emailed Ms Porter because Kyron wanted to show Desiree his project and Terri wanted to know if she could pick it up- the reason for having the pickup truck.

Apparently she did email Ms Porter and ask her.

And apparently she recieved a reply, otherwise, Terri would have gone back to the school and picked up the project and probably Kyron at the same time, rather than have him ride the bus home.

Is there a link to an article that states Terri emailed Ms. Porter about the project? Or is this based on something Terri said?

I don't think this came from Terri. I believe it was from Kaine during an interview. I am not completely sure though.

[fatcatlurker]

The backpack and jacket being left reference is an email from Terri so who knows if there really was a backpack and jacket?  Hope LE knows. 

Terri's "Supposed" later (1pm) email to Teacher Porter that said who knows what was stated by Terri?  I believe? 

I am not sure where this repy from Teacher Porter in response to Terri email is coming from.  Anyone have a clue?  Never heard that one before.  jmo

[fatcatlurker]

First let me say it doesn't matter what the district says about the chain of responsibiltiy, it would be within the states education codes adopted from the federal education codes.
Kyron was at a planned event which began at 8:00 it could be challenged, if anyone felt the need, that the time stated previously by district policy was overriden by the 8:00 in time. For instance, was someone telling the parents you need to stay for a certain amount of time because the staff that is here already is not responsible? As a parent wouldn't you consider staff was going to watch the kids if you attended at 8 but had to leave to work at 8:30? I don't let the school off the hook. They were responsible for Kyron, even by their standards, LE states Terri left at 8:45, so to that the point is mute.

MK great thought about the email. I wonder if the teacher did email Terri back. She may not have which Terri could have assumed it was not ok to pick it up. I wish I could see the email(s), I bet there is some information in there that can answer some of this.

I don't know why Kyron was not picked up. My guess is he took the bus everyday so it was just the normal thing to do.
Why didn't Kyron mention to his mom or dad that he was going to be in a talent show? My children have been in a few little plays or shows, I have to admit one I missed. I completely forgot about it. I was sick that day, horrible guilt to this day over that and it was 3 years ago! So, I wonder if Kaine just forgot about it and now doesn't want to say that because of how it would look? 

TG - I agree with you on the school.  I think of it like a daycare.  The minute I hand off the child it is their job and responsibility to watch over the child.  Same goes for the schools.  Millions of parents place their precious children on buses everyday to go to school.  It's the schools responsibility.

We pay these people - this is our tax dollars at work.  Everyone pays whether you have children or not.  JMO.

[Tracygirl]

Hello All,   Does anyone know when exactly Skyline Elem put up the announcement of the Science Fair?  Just wondering how long that invitation was was up for the general public.  Also, in the begining of this case, it was reported there was a Carnival in town the week Kyron disappeared.  I am on my cell at the moment, can someone pick this up and see what you can find out.  TIA, MK

MK photo provided by CrankyCrankerson " our unknown vigilante photo keeper on photobucket" who I give props to. Hope this helps

I know I'm a pain but where does it say that this school event was "Open to the Public?"  Our school has a board also.  Electronic and it clearly states events open to the public such as the evening talent shows.  Is it in some language I do not understand?  JMO.

It doesn't state it is open to the public in addition to it not saying it is closed to the public, it is announcing an event which locals have stated is a big event for the school. To be honest, I don't know why a person who just lives in an area and didn't have kids that attend there would see something like this and think, "oh on friday I need to check out the science fair!, yipee! Sounds like fun!" I think the only people I can imagine going who do not have children in attendance would be perhaps someone in politics or with the school district or I suppose your everyday preying pedophile.