Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #31 9/27/10 - 10/02/2010

[fatcatlurker]

TracyGirl that is exactly why I was asking.  Our board like I said states open to public than names the event.  Everything else regarding school events is just stated w/out the open.  So I was wondering where the "OPEN TO PUBLIC" came from such as a news article or the school handbook?  From that sign I would not assume it was.  JMO

It just sounds wacky to me that some random person "EXCEPT" those you noted above would even be interested.  JMO.

[Brandi]

Hello All,   Does anyone know when exactly Skyline Elem put up the announcement of the Science Fair?  Just wondering how long that invitation was was up for the general public.  Also, in the begining of this case, it was reported there was a Carnival in town the week Kyron disappeared.  I am on my cell at the moment, can someone pick this up and see what you can find out.  TIA, MK

MK photo provided by CrankyCrankerson " our unknown vigilante photo keeper on photobucket" who I give props to. Hope this helps

I know I'm a pain but where does it say that this school event was "Open to the Public?"  Our school has a board also.  Electronic and it clearly states events open to the public such as the evening talent shows.  Is it in some language I do not understand?  JMO.

I have been thinking the same, every time someone said it was "open to the public." I don't think it was. It was a school event being announced. And school events are usually for students and their families. Not the general public. Unless otherwise stated.

JMO.

[Grey]

If a stranger abducted Kyron, they would have to assure themselves of a good parking space close to the school. Parents were parking on the street that day because there were not enough spaces on the school grounds for everyone. The risk of being seen walking Kyron all the way or carrying a 50-pound-plus container to the street would be great. That would explain why LE was asking about vehicles parked in the south-side lot of the school.

The attention may not be on a stranger but a friend, parent, or someone associated with the school who parked in that lot.

[novella]

First let me say it doesn't matter what the district says about the chain of responsibiltiy, it would be within the states education codes adopted from the federal education codes.
Kyron was at a planned event which began at 8:00 it could be challenged, if anyone felt the need, that the time stated previously by district policy was overriden by the 8:00 in time. For instance, was someone telling the parents you need to stay for a certain amount of time because the staff that is here already is not responsible? As a parent wouldn't you consider staff was going to watch the kids if you attended at 8 but had to leave to work at 8:30? I don't let the school off the hook. They were responsible for Kyron, even by their standards, LE states Terri left at 8:45, so to that the point is mute.

MK great thought about the email. I wonder if the teacher did email Terri back. She may not have which Terri could have assumed it was not ok to pick it up. I wish I could see the email(s), I bet there is some information in there that can answer some of this.

I don't know why Kyron was not picked up. My guess is he took the bus everyday so it was just the normal thing to do.
Why didn't Kyron mention to his mom or dad that he was going to be in a talent show? My children have been in a few little plays or shows, I have to admit one I missed. I completely forgot about it. I was sick that day, horrible guilt to this day over that and it was 3 years ago! So, I wonder if Kaine just forgot about it and now doesn't want to say that because of how it would look? 

TG - I agree with you on the school.  I think of it like a daycare.  The minute I hand off the child it is their job and responsibility to watch over the child.  Same goes for the schools.  Millions of parents place their precious children on buses everyday to go to school.  It's the schools responsibility.

We pay these people - this is our tax dollars at work.  Everyone pays whether you have children or not.  JMO.

I agree completely!

[fatcatlurker]

If a stranger abducted Kyron, they would have to assure themselves of a good parking space close to the school. Parents were parking on the street that day because there were not enough spaces on the school grounds for everyone. The risk of being seen walking Kyron all the way or carrying a 50-pound-plus container to the street would be great. That would explain why LE was asking about vehicles parked in the south-side lot of the school.

The attention may not be on a stranger but a friend, parent, or someone associated with the school who parked in that lot.

And that is where I would go also.  That's why I wondered if the chaperone's/parents left at a certain time that day. 

Only thing with this theory is that they usually dump them really soon afterward and it would of been an impulse grab for sure either way.  So you'd think he would of been right there or very close by.  Maybe their timeline for after the fair wouldn't of matched up.

If it is someone who is a repeat but has not been caught yet...who knows could of taken more time and definate planning on a disposal site.  This would be a nightmare for LE & everyone.  JMO on the stranger abduction theory.

[monchichi]

First let me say it doesn't matter what the district says about the chain of responsibiltiy, it would be within the states education codes adopted from the federal education codes.
Kyron was at a planned event which began at 8:00 it could be challenged, if anyone felt the need, that the time stated previously by district policy was overriden by the 8:00 in time. For instance, was someone telling the parents you need to stay for a certain amount of time because the staff that is here already is not responsible? As a parent wouldn't you consider staff was going to watch the kids if you attended at 8 but had to leave to work at 8:30? I don't let the school off the hook. They were responsible for Kyron, even by their standards, LE states Terri left at 8:45, so to that the point is mute.

MK great thought about the email. I wonder if the teacher did email Terri back. She may not have which Terri could have assumed it was not ok to pick it up. I wish I could see the email(s), I bet there is some information in there that can answer some of this.

I don't know why Kyron was not picked up. My guess is he took the bus everyday so it was just the normal thing to do.
Why didn't Kyron mention to his mom or dad that he was going to be in a talent show? My children have been in a few little plays or shows, I have to admit one I missed. I completely forgot about it. I was sick that day, horrible guilt to this day over that and it was 3 years ago! So, I wonder if Kaine just forgot about it and now doesn't want to say that because of how it would look? 

TG - I agree with you on the school.  I think of it like a daycare.  The minute I hand off the child it is their job and responsibility to watch over the child.  Same goes for the schools.  Millions of parents place their precious children on buses everyday to go to school.  It's the schools responsibility.

We pay these people - this is our tax dollars at work.  Everyone pays whether you have children or not.  JMO.

I agree completely!

But was the hand off completed if Kyron never walked into his classroom?  If he was not left in the hands of the teacher???  In my opinion, no.  Not when there were other adults wandering the school.  She needed to make sure he was left where he was supposed to be, with the teacher.  Then the TEACHER can assign him to a group, and the chaperone of his group would then assume responsiblity for him.  She did not leave him with a responsible adult.

[fatcatlurker]

I still don't like the Turf Tech.  I don't know why he creeps me out.  One- the fact that he took time to note children running around that day "unsupervised".  Two - He changed his timeline for the day.  Three - he left at 9am - around last time Kyron was seen.  Four - drives a white truck.  Five - he was so confident that no one was on that side road leading to that field but him.

He's probably a perfectly innocent guy but outside-in this is what I got.
We looked at him early on and these things just struck me as odd/standouts.  JMO.  Okay throw nanners now!

[Tracygirl]

If a stranger abducted Kyron, they would have to assure themselves of a good parking space close to the school. Parents were parking on the street that day because there were not enough spaces on the school grounds for everyone. The risk of being seen walking Kyron all the way or carrying a 50-pound-plus container to the street would be great. That would explain why LE was asking about vehicles parked in the south-side lot of the school.

The attention may not be on a stranger but a friend, parent, or someone associated with the school who parked in that lot.

A stranger to Kyron is not necessarily a stranger to the school

[cw618]

sorry to get off topic of the discussion, i was reading around or troll
i hadnt been to the g l p for a month or so, and found a  ,crazy insert,
insinuating KH in a b&e, One of Toms clients 995188
first post on pg147 kyron latest news where do these crazies come from

[Brandi]

I still don't like the Turf Tech.  I don't know why he creeps me out.  One- the fact that he took time to note children running around that day "unsupervised".  Two - He changed his timeline for the day.  Three - he left at 9am - around last time Kyron was seen.  Four - drives a white truck.  Five - he was so confident that no one was on that side road leading to that field but him.

He's probably a perfectly innocent guy but outside-in this is what I got.
We looked at him early on and these things just struck me as odd/standouts.  JMO.  Okay throw nanners now!

No nanners for you!

I just feel in my gut that he had nothing to do with this.

Doesn't send out a red flag to me.

[Tracygirl]

First let me say it doesn't matter what the district says about the chain of responsibiltiy, it would be within the states education codes adopted from the federal education codes.
Kyron was at a planned event which began at 8:00 it could be challenged, if anyone felt the need, that the time stated previously by district policy was overriden by the 8:00 in time. For instance, was someone telling the parents you need to stay for a certain amount of time because the staff that is here already is not responsible? As a parent wouldn't you consider staff was going to watch the kids if you attended at 8 but had to leave to work at 8:30? I don't let the school off the hook. They were responsible for Kyron, even by their standards, LE states Terri left at 8:45, so to that the point is mute.

MK great thought about the email. I wonder if the teacher did email Terri back. She may not have which Terri could have assumed it was not ok to pick it up. I wish I could see the email(s), I bet there is some information in there that can answer some of this.

I don't know why Kyron was not picked up. My guess is he took the bus everyday so it was just the normal thing to do.
Why didn't Kyron mention to his mom or dad that he was going to be in a talent show? My children have been in a few little plays or shows, I have to admit one I missed. I completely forgot about it. I was sick that day, horrible guilt to this day over that and it was 3 years ago! So, I wonder if Kaine just forgot about it and now doesn't want to say that because of how it would look? 

TG - I agree with you on the school.  I think of it like a daycare.  The minute I hand off the child it is their job and responsibility to watch over the child.  Same goes for the schools.  Millions of parents place their precious children on buses everyday to go to school.  It's the schools responsibility.

We pay these people - this is our tax dollars at work.  Everyone pays whether you have children or not.  JMO.

I agree completely!

But was the hand off completed if Kyron never walked into his classroom?  If he was not left in the hands of the teacher???  In my opinion, no.  Not when there were other adults wandering the school.  She needed to make sure he was left where he was supposed to be, with the teacher.  Then the TEACHER can assign him to a group, and the chaperone of his group would then assume responsiblity for him.  She did not leave him with a responsible adult.

Nope sorry the responsibility is with the school. There doesn't have to an actual handoff. At 8:35 the school states they are responsible for the child, period.  The truth is, if the school had put in place common sense procedures, this could not have happened. What is even more maddening to me is it is a closed school building. Not even an open campus concept. Kyron was taken during the time the school says they were responsible.

[no rose colored glasses]

I still don't like the Turf Tech.  I don't know why he creeps me out.  One- the fact that he took time to note children running around that day "unsupervised".  Two - He changed his timeline for the day.  Three - he left at 9am - around last time Kyron was seen.  Four - drives a white truck.  Five - he was so confident that no one was on that side road leading to that field but him.

He's probably a perfectly innocent guy but outside-in this is what I got.
We looked at him early on and these things just struck me as odd/standouts.  JMO.  Okay throw nanners now!

I'm not real sure about him either, he creeps me out also, but so do a lot of people.

[fatcatlurker]

I still don't like the Turf Tech.  I don't know why he creeps me out.  One- the fact that he took time to note children running around that day "unsupervised".  Two - He changed his timeline for the day.  Three - he left at 9am - around last time Kyron was seen.  Four - drives a white truck.  Five - he was so confident that no one was on that side road leading to that field but him.

He's probably a perfectly innocent guy but outside-in this is what I got.
We looked at him early on and these things just struck me as odd/standouts.  JMO.  Okay throw nanners now!

I'm not real sure about him either, he creeps me out also, but so do a lot of people.

Thank you Brandi!  Probably just me.

NRCG - you had me laughing so hard with the second part!  Thank you it's nice to know your not alone!  lolololol!

[novella]

here is a link to all the dates of the divorces and marriages of TH and KH...not sure on the reliability but it was informative. 

[novella]

http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-seattle/kyron-horman-update-family-turmoil-two-911-calls-saturday-at-horman-residence-dad-moves-out?render=print

horman family history...the link with dates of divorces and marriages.

[Monkey King]

I still don't like the Turf Tech.  I don't know why he creeps me out.  One- the fact that he took time to note children running around that day "unsupervised".  Two - He changed his timeline for the day.  Three - he left at 9am - around last time Kyron was seen.  Four - drives a white truck.  Five - he was so confident that no one was on that side road leading to that field but him.

He's probably a perfectly innocent guy but outside-in this is what I got.
We looked at him early on and these things just struck me as odd/standouts.  JMO.  Okay throw nanners now!

Throw nanners?  No way, I'm bringing nanners!!  I agree!

[darla]

Good Afternoon Monkeys and Guest!

I don't have a link but it was in the first threads that Kaine said Terri had the truck on both the 3 & 4th. It is also stated somewhere back in the threads that the kids did the presentations for their projects on Thursday. Then came the rumor that Kaine and Terri had as big fight Thursday night and the project did not get to the school. If they did their presentations on Thursday the project would have been there on Thursday morning. I don't see how a fight on Thursday night changed that .

Does anyone that is local know the traffic pattern for dropping off you child and picking them up at Skyline? Someone posted a page or so back, that no child was to be dropped off earlier than 8:35 and no later 8:45 final bell. That makes no sense that 300 kids can get bused in or dropped off within 10 minutes. The reason I am asking, our Elementary has a one way loop around a teacher parking lot that is beside the lunch room. Our teachers have to arrive at 7:00 am, 1st bell is a 7:25 and tardy bell is at 7:35.  All student go into the lunchroom and sit til 1st bell when they go to their classroom. Usually 3 or 4 teachers or personnel of the school supervise the kids. No parent is allowed to get out of their car in this loop. It is for drop off or pic up only. At the end of school all car riders are sent back to the lunchroom to be picked up by parents. And bus riders go to another wing of the school that has a bus loop. 5th graders have
the opportunity to be on safety patrol and they walk all the kids down the sidewalk to each of thier cars. Each child has to have a list of who can pick them up and the make of car that will be used. I am on the list for all 5 that I have in Elementary and If I go to pick them up, I have their names on a card furnished by the school that I hold up to the window. Each child is asked who I am before they can get in the car.

[monchichi]

First let me say it doesn't matter what the district says about the chain of responsibiltiy, it would be within the states education codes adopted from the federal education codes.
Kyron was at a planned event which began at 8:00 it could be challenged, if anyone felt the need, that the time stated previously by district policy was overriden by the 8:00 in time. For instance, was someone telling the parents you need to stay for a certain amount of time because the staff that is here already is not responsible? As a parent wouldn't you consider staff was going to watch the kids if you attended at 8 but had to leave to work at 8:30? I don't let the school off the hook. They were responsible for Kyron, even by their standards, LE states Terri left at 8:45, so to that the point is mute.

MK great thought about the email. I wonder if the teacher did email Terri back. She may not have which Terri could have assumed it was not ok to pick it up. I wish I could see the email(s), I bet there is some information in there that can answer some of this.

I don't know why Kyron was not picked up. My guess is he took the bus everyday so it was just the normal thing to do.
Why didn't Kyron mention to his mom or dad that he was going to be in a talent show? My children have been in a few little plays or shows, I have to admit one I missed. I completely forgot about it. I was sick that day, horrible guilt to this day over that and it was 3 years ago! So, I wonder if Kaine just forgot about it and now doesn't want to say that because of how it would look? 

TG - I agree with you on the school.  I think of it like a daycare.  The minute I hand off the child it is their job and responsibility to watch over the child.  Same goes for the schools.  Millions of parents place their precious children on buses everyday to go to school.  It's the schools responsibility.

We pay these people - this is our tax dollars at work.  Everyone pays whether you have children or not.  JMO.

I agree completely!

But was the hand off completed if Kyron never walked into his classroom?  If he was not left in the hands of the teacher???  In my opinion, no.  Not when there were other adults wandering the school.  She needed to make sure he was left where he was supposed to be, with the teacher.  Then the TEACHER can assign him to a group, and the chaperone of his group would then assume responsiblity for him.  She did not leave him with a responsible adult.

Nope sorry the responsibility is with the school. There doesn't have to an actual handoff. At 8:35 the school states they are responsible for the child, period.  The truth is, if the school had put in place common sense procedures, this could not have happened. What is even more maddening to me is it is a closed school building. Not even an open campus concept. Kyron was taken during the time the school says they were responsible.

Legally responsible, sure, if it was after 8:35.  BUT if it was my child, I would personally hold the other parent responsible.  I walk my children to their class every day.  I watch them go inside their classrooms.  I suppose under your ideas of responsibility if a child steps one foot onto school property and then turns around and leaves, the school is responsible for what happens.  I guess they should have staff around the perimeter of the school grounds to ensure that doesn't happen, but then they would have to hire many more staff.

[Monkey King]

First let me say it doesn't matter what the district says about the chain of responsibiltiy, it would be within the states education codes adopted from the federal education codes.
Kyron was at a planned event which began at 8:00 it could be challenged, if anyone felt the need, that the time stated previously by district policy was overriden by the 8:00 in time. For instance, was someone telling the parents you need to stay for a certain amount of time because the staff that is here already is not responsible? As a parent wouldn't you consider staff was going to watch the kids if you attended at 8 but had to leave to work at 8:30? I don't let the school off the hook. They were responsible for Kyron, even by their standards, LE states Terri left at 8:45, so to that the point is mute.

MK great thought about the email. I wonder if the teacher did email Terri back. She may not have which Terri could have assumed it was not ok to pick it up. I wish I could see the email(s), I bet there is some information in there that can answer some of this.

I don't know why Kyron was not picked up. My guess is he took the bus everyday so it was just the normal thing to do.
Why didn't Kyron mention to his mom or dad that he was going to be in a talent show? My children have been in a few little plays or shows, I have to admit one I missed. I completely forgot about it. I was sick that day, horrible guilt to this day over that and it was 3 years ago! So, I wonder if Kaine just forgot about it and now doesn't want to say that because of how it would look? 

TG - I agree with you on the school.  I think of it like a daycare.  The minute I hand off the child it is their job and responsibility to watch over the child.  Same goes for the schools.  Millions of parents place their precious children on buses everyday to go to school.  It's the schools responsibility.

We pay these people - this is our tax dollars at work.  Everyone pays whether you have children or not.  JMO.

I agree completely!

But was the hand off completed if Kyron never walked into his classroom?  If he was not left in the hands of the teacher???  In my opinion, no.  Not when there were other adults wandering the school.  She needed to make sure he was left where he was supposed to be, with the teacher.  Then the TEACHER can assign him to a group, and the chaperone of his group would then assume responsiblity for him.  She did not leave him with a responsible adult.

Nope sorry the responsibility is with the school. There doesn't have to an actual handoff. At 8:35 the school states they are responsible for the child, period.  The truth is, if the school had put in place common sense procedures, this could not have happened. What is even more maddening to me is it is a closed school building. Not even an open campus concept. Kyron was taken during the time the school says they were responsible.

If school was closed for the day and someone fell in a hole and broke their leg, who is liable?

If you had a swimming pool, and your neighbors toddler walked over and drowned in it, who is liable?

If you own a business, and booby trap it due to prior burglaries and a burglar dies due to your system for protecting your property, who's liable?

If Terri left Kyron at school during school hours and Kyron disappears, who's liable?

[Monkey King]

**If school was closed and someone fell in a hole ON SCHOOL PROPERTY, who is liable?

Sorry^