Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #31 9/27/10 - 10/02/2010

[Claycat]

Deenie, that information about the memorial service is a real eye-opener!  It points again to premeditation. 

[monchichi]

Sorry, didn't see #3...KH could be involved.  I've often thought hinky of him.  He could have gone to work and got off earlier.  He said the time he left work and got home, could he have left work earlier or twice that day?
Maybe he left work earlier to catch her in some of her comprimising positions/situations?  Maybe he was notified of Ky's disappearance and he rushed to help her that morn and they were doing 90 to get where the note that was poss found by TH in the truck said to go to.  OOOHHH, that all sounds way to far fetched!!!!  I'll quit now.

Uh-oh!  I just had a flash thought! 

Here goes speculation:  could Kaine have been suspicious that Terri was having an affair with the guy who used to live next door (Kyron's friend's father) and who now lives on a house boat.  Kaine left work unexpectedly to check on Miss Terri and the house boat.  Found her there...confrontation ensues...Terri leaves the house boat and jumps in her car and Kaine chases after her in the white truck.  That would be something they wouldn't want LE and the reporters to know about. 

Trouble within the family that were the next door neighbors...mother suddenly moved to another state (correct me if I'm wrong) and father moved into house boat and Kyron's friend left with grandmother. 

Wonder if that had to do with father/Terri having and affair.  Could Kyron have seen them or overheard them and heard one of them say - I'm dead?

Okay, it's a wild tale...tear it apart! 

It isn't necessarily a wild tale.  It is as plausible as anything else I've seen or heard.  Considering they may have been fighting the day before, it could be that Kaine left even earlier to check on Terri.  It makes me wonder if something accidentally happened to Kyron during an angry confrontation.  Sometimes people get so angry, they put others in danger. 

Family violence does make sense, but in that scenario how and with whom does Kyron leave school?

[Claycat]

Monchichi, I still think he left with Terri and possibly someone else.  ????

[monchichi]

Monchichi, I still think he left with Terri and possibly someone else.  ????

Then it wouldn't be an accident as in the above scenario, but it would still be family violence....

[Deenie]

Deenie, that information about the memorial service is a real eye-opener!  It points again to premeditation. 

I think so too.
I wonder if DS would have read the announcement of the Chief's memorial on her twitter ( not implying anything) just saying since she is connected to every local twitter PDX and etc..
I am sure though living right next to the Church she would know either way..
 
About 8 yrs ago, we had a local Ford manufacturing plant that was taken by a sniper.. Every LE agency from every county was called in..and they shut down the main freeway for LE to gain access to the plant. ( they could not find him/and didn't know if he was In or Out of the plant or had accomplices)  While it was broadcasting on every news channel.. the houses and local businesses became sitting ducks for robbery and everything in between ..because all LE were at the Ford Plant.

People/Criminals/alike minded, knew they could get away with practically anything within the hours and did take advantage of knowing all LE were in one area ..sad but true. 
 

[Claycat]

Was it premeditated?  Was it an accident?  My head is spinning!   

[monchichi]

Good morning Monkeys.

Does anyone know the date of the last time Kyron was at Desiree's and Tony's?

To me this would just be interesting to know if it was the weekend before or a few weeks before.

I have the impression that Kyron knew or saw something involved in Terri's alternate life ( a drug deal, a sexual escapade, a man at the house that normally wouldn't be there?)

Terri's appearance went down hill quickly in the months between March and June.  What happened ?  We may never know.  But her appearance changed drastically from March to June.

The muddy waters she created, as NICUBIRD said can not in my mind just be coincidence.

The fact that Kyron would be with his bio Mom and her detective husband that weekend..can not just be coincidence. 

The fact that science fair and talent show were happening that day at school..not a coincidence.  A perfect storm was brewing due to Terri.

I don't think he left school with her, but I do think he left school with someone she told him to leave with. 

Who? IDK.  Was it some perv that had molested Kyron that Terri did drug deals with or for, was it revenge on Terri's part or someone else? 

We just don't have enough true facts yet to really know..but for some reason I think Terri did not want Kyron going there to Desiree and Tony's that weekend..her secrets were about to be spilled.

The past few days people discussed Desiree and Kaine's quotes from Kyron's birthday party.

 I thought they were trying to communicate to Kyron, believing he may still be alive and kidnapped.  I simply thought they were trying to reassure him that they loved him and wanted him home. 

I think they were trying to let him know they still loved him and wanted him because many times kidnappers and pervs will tell a child that if you tell your parents will be harmed..or I have you because your parents don't love or want you any more.

Even though I believe Kyron is deceased, if they believe he is alive then telling him they love, miss and want him home does not seem so unusual to me.

I believe you are on to something here.  I think it does go back to March, or earlier.  But, it seems like Kyron would have been to Desiree's between March and June.  I also think if TH was planning something, she may not have wanted JM around.  The less he knew the better.

[fatcatlurker]

One thing I will say about KH and Intel is that I would bet he never left that compound during his timeline given.

From looking at the video clip of the workers walking around with ID badges hanging from their necks to cards with reader strips (most tuck these behind the ID badge for added security);  I would bet it's a card swipe system.  Like Datawatch or something.  I worked at ATF headquarters in Wash DC for many years and I can tell you that this building appears to have the same security measures in place.

Card swipes at all floors to access entry to work area's.  Think back to the cleaning guy at the Yale University who killed the student and stuffed her in the wall.  They knew where they were from card swipes at entry doors within the bdlg.  I would bet Intel is the same. 

I would further say that the security did not stop with the interior of the bdlg.  Those posts in front of the bdlg are post 911 idealogy of cars being driven near the bdlg with bombs on board.  They are there to stop cars from getting near the bdlg.  You can bet they have camara's in that parking lot with extra's directly aimed at road entry and exits.  JMO.

They would know if KH was not there and they would know if car swapping took place.  JMO.

O/T but I can still remember bitching a fit when working there because you could only use the stairs one way and that was down and out. 

[fatcatlurker]

Forgot link for inside Intel;

http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2008/03/03/photos-from-intels-new-jf1-offices-future-home-of-isn-oregon/

[fatcatlurker]

Very good article from June 5, 2010 giving some details we are looking for -


http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html

Although the school usually opens at 8:35 a.m. and the final bell rings 10 minutes later, the school opened as early as 8 Friday for the science fair, said Matt Shelby, spokesman for Portland Public Schools.

She said he visits his biological mother in Medford every couple of weeks and that Desiree, 38, came to Portland as soon as she heard about his disappearance.
___________________________________________________________________________

I just clipped those 2 parts from the article.

[Gypsy DD]

I still think that Terri made offers and inquires to others about the MFH.  If LS turned it down, as we have been told by several different news sources and he appeared before the GJ ..then she wouldn't have stopped at just one person.

I think that along with sex and drugs put her in a very bad spot where someone was threatening her as early as March.  I think Kyron may have overheard a conversation or info that was threatening to her...which then also made Kyron a threat to her. 

Did she tell him to keep quiet or she would hurt him or even Desiree? 

It's hard to know what goes through the minds of people who can disappear a child.

I think this is pretty simple really.

Kyron saw or heard something he should not have.

Terri knew he had to be dealt with and whomever she was in cohoots with about what he saw or overheard is the person who took him from school and murdered him.  They could not have him talking. 

Her role was to set the stage, the date, the seizure story , the confused date of Dr appts, the "listen to whatever any adult in a school setting says, and the banishment to his room for the evening when school behavior was less then perfect..or argue with Kaine about that..since Kaine readily admits he felt that was too much to expect of a child on a daily rather then weekly basis. 

JMHO

[fatcatlurker]

Another interesting piece from that article - this is Terri's talking here I think?
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/details_emerge_about_the_day_k.html


But he's no Huckleberry Finn.

"He's not real adventurous," she said. "He's a little timid. But if a friend wanted to go outside and look at something, he would follow the friend. He has a friend who he regularly gets in trouble with in the classroom because he talks too much."

Moulton said Kyron will not even venture far from his home in a wooded area.

"He won't get out of sight of the house," she said. "He's pretty insecure about that. So I can't see him wandering off."

[Gypsy DD]

One thing I will say about KH and Intel is that I would bet he never left that compound during his timeline given.

From looking at the video clip of the workers walking around with ID badges hanging from their necks to cards with reader strips (most tuck these behind the ID badge for added security);  I would bet it's a card swipe system.  Like Datawatch or something.  I worked at ATF headquarters in Wash DC for many years and I can tell you that this building appears to have the same security measures in place.

Card swipes at all floors to access entry to work area's.  Think back to the cleaning guy at the Yale University who killed the student and stuffed her in the wall.  They knew where they were from card swipes at entry doors within the bdlg.  I would bet Intel is the same. 

I would further say that the security did not stop with the interior of the bdlg.  Those posts in front of the bdlg are post 911 idealogy of cars being driven near the bdlg with bombs on board.  They are there to stop cars from getting near the bdlg.  You can bet they have camara's in that parking lot with extra's directly aimed at road entry and exits.  JMO.

They would know if KH was not there and they would know if car swapping took place.  JMO.

O/T but I can still remember bitching a fit when working there because you could only use the stairs one way and that was down and out. 

I completely agree about Intel..there is no way, no how they don't know exactly what is happening at all times in the parking lot and the building.

Kaine passed his LDT..and no one has come forward to say he didn't know where he was or what he was doing, or that his timeline didn't match up.

[nicubird]

I still think that Terri made offers and inquires to others about the MFH.  If LS turned it down, as we have been told by several different news sources and he appeared before the GJ ..then she wouldn't have stopped at just one person.

I think that along with sex and drugs put her in a very bad spot where someone was threatening her as early as March.  I think Kyron may have overheard a conversation or info that was threatening to her...which then also made Kyron a threat to her. 

Did she tell him to keep quiet or she would hurt him or even Desiree? 

It's hard to know what goes through the minds of people who can disappear a child.

I think this is pretty simple really.

Kyron saw or heard something he should not have.

Terri knew he had to be dealt with and whomever she was in cohoots with about what he saw or overheard is the person who took him from school and murdered him.  They could not have him talking. 

Her role was to set the stage, the date, the seizure story , the confused date of Dr appts, the "listen to whatever any adult in a school setting says, and the banishment to his room for the evening when school behavior was less then perfect..or argue with Kaine about that..since Kaine readily admits he felt that was too much to expect of a child on a daily rather then weekly basis. 

JMHO

ITA 

[Gypsy DD]

So if it had been a couple of weeks since Kyron had seen Desiree then whatever he overheard or walked in on had happened in the past two weeks before or since his last visit to Desiree's.

I still think something happened in March to Terri..she was being threatened or she realized she had found the person to make Kaine dead.  Either could have made her start drinking and look stressed.

[fatcatlurker]

I still think that Terri made offers and inquires to others about the MFH.  If LS turned it down, as we have been told by several different news sources and he appeared before the GJ ..then she wouldn't have stopped at just one person.

I think that along with sex and drugs put her in a very bad spot where someone was threatening her as early as March.  I think Kyron may have overheard a conversation or info that was threatening to her...which then also made Kyron a threat to her. 

Did she tell him to keep quiet or she would hurt him or even Desiree? 

It's hard to know what goes through the minds of people who can disappear a child.

I think this is pretty simple really.

Kyron saw or heard something he should not have.

Terri knew he had to be dealt with and whomever she was in cohoots with about what he saw or overheard is the person who took him from school and murdered him.  They could not have him talking. 

Her role was to set the stage, the date, the seizure story , the confused date of Dr appts, the "listen to whatever any adult in a school setting says, and the banishment to his room for the evening when school behavior was less then perfect..or argue with Kaine about that..since Kaine readily admits he felt that was too much to expect of a child on a daily rather then weekly basis. 

JMHO

ITA 

And this would fit with it all going quiet now I think.  They have the one guy RS in the MFH.  What if there was a second one?  One for Kyron.  It's horrible and hurts just thinking about but what if? 

[nicubird]

One thing I will say about KH and Intel is that I would bet he never left that compound during his timeline given.

From looking at the video clip of the workers walking around with ID badges hanging from their necks to cards with reader strips (most tuck these behind the ID badge for added security);  I would bet it's a card swipe system.  Like Datawatch or something.  I worked at ATF headquarters in Wash DC for many years and I can tell you that this building appears to have the same security measures in place.

Card swipes at all floors to access entry to work area's.  Think back to the cleaning guy at the Yale University who killed the student and stuffed her in the wall.  They knew where they were from card swipes at entry doors within the bdlg.  I would bet Intel is the same. 

I would further say that the security did not stop with the interior of the bdlg.  Those posts in front of the bdlg are post 911 idealogy of cars being driven near the bdlg with bombs on board.  They are there to stop cars from getting near the bdlg.  You can bet they have camara's in that parking lot with extra's directly aimed at road entry and exits.  JMO.

They would know if KH was not there and they would know if car swapping took place.  JMO.

O/T but I can still remember bitching a fit when working there because you could only use the stairs one way and that was down and out. 

I completely agree about Intel..there is no way, no how they don't know exactly what is happening at all times in the parking lot and the building.

Kaine passed his LDT..and no one has come forward to say he didn't know where he was or what he was doing, or that his timeline didn't match up.

Intel is a tech company appropriately cognizant of industrial theft and espionage. There is absolutely no way anyone enters or leaves any of those buildings without leaving a digital mark. I would be surprised if their swipe badges did not have proximity chips (utilized by some hospitals which are far less secure). I bet they know when one of their employees uses the restroom.

[fatcatlurker]

So if it had been a couple of weeks since Kyron had seen Desiree then whatever he overheard or walked in on had happened in the past two weeks before or since his last visit to Desiree's.

I still think something happened in March to Terri..she was being threatened or she realized she had found the person to make Kaine dead.  Either could have made her start drinking and look stressed.

Or as Desiree said "red flags" maybe they were in March and had subsided for Kyron.  But for Terri maybe hers escalated as she got deeper in whatever she was doing?  Idk if that makes sense?

You know children will live with all types of crap around them and done to them.  They go numb but they survive...some do anyway.  But adults are different.  It festers and grows to overflowing until they explode.  Atleast I think IMO.

[fatcatlurker]

One thing I will say about KH and Intel is that I would bet he never left that compound during his timeline given.

From looking at the video clip of the workers walking around with ID badges hanging from their necks to cards with reader strips (most tuck these behind the ID badge for added security);  I would bet it's a card swipe system.  Like Datawatch or something.  I worked at ATF headquarters in Wash DC for many years and I can tell you that this building appears to have the same security measures in place.

Card swipes at all floors to access entry to work area's.  Think back to the cleaning guy at the Yale University who killed the student and stuffed her in the wall.  They knew where they were from card swipes at entry doors within the bdlg.  I would bet Intel is the same. 

I would further say that the security did not stop with the interior of the bdlg.  Those posts in front of the bdlg are post 911 idealogy of cars being driven near the bdlg with bombs on board.  They are there to stop cars from getting near the bdlg.  You can bet they have camara's in that parking lot with extra's directly aimed at road entry and exits.  JMO.

They would know if KH was not there and they would know if car swapping took place.  JMO.

O/T but I can still remember bitching a fit when working there because you could only use the stairs one way and that was down and out. 

I completely agree about Intel..there is no way, no how they don't know exactly what is happening at all times in the parking lot and the building.

Kaine passed his LDT..and no one has come forward to say he didn't know where he was or what he was doing, or that his timeline didn't match up.

Intel is a tech company appropriately cognizant of industrial theft and espionage. There is absolutely no way anyone enters or leaves any of those buildings without leaving a digital mark. I would be surprised if their swipe badges did not have proximity chips (utilized by some hospitals which are far less secure). I bet they know when one of their employees uses the restroom.

EEEEWWW now that's bad Nicubird!  lol!

[Tracygirl]

First let me say it doesn't matter what the district says about the chain of responsibiltiy, it would be within the states education codes adopted from the federal education codes.
Kyron was at a planned event which began at 8:00 it could be challenged, if anyone felt the need, that the time stated previously by district policy was overriden by the 8:00 in time. For instance, was someone telling the parents you need to stay for a certain amount of time because the staff that is here already is not responsible? As a parent wouldn't you consider staff was going to watch the kids if you attended at 8 but had to leave to work at 8:30? I don't let the school off the hook. They were responsible for Kyron, even by their standards, LE states Terri left at 8:45, so to that the point is mute.

MK great thought about the email. I wonder if the teacher did email Terri back. She may not have which Terri could have assumed it was not ok to pick it up. I wish I could see the email(s), I bet there is some information in there that can answer some of this.

I don't know why Kyron was not picked up. My guess is he took the bus everyday so it was just the normal thing to do.
Why didn't Kyron mention to his mom or dad that he was going to be in a talent show? My children have been in a few little plays or shows, I have to admit one I missed. I completely forgot about it. I was sick that day, horrible guilt to this day over that and it was 3 years ago! So, I wonder if Kaine just forgot about it and now doesn't want to say that because of how it would look? 

TG - I agree with you on the school.  I think of it like a daycare.  The minute I hand off the child it is their job and responsibility to watch over the child.  Same goes for the schools.  Millions of parents place their precious children on buses everyday to go to school.  It's the schools responsibility.

We pay these people - this is our tax dollars at work.  Everyone pays whether you have children or not.  JMO.

I agree completely!

But was the hand off completed if Kyron never walked into his classroom?  If he was not left in the hands of the teacher???  In my opinion, no.  Not when there were other adults wandering the school.  She needed to make sure he was left where he was supposed to be, with the teacher.  Then the TEACHER can assign him to a group, and the chaperone of his group would then assume responsiblity for him.  She did not leave him with a responsible adult.

Nope sorry the responsibility is with the school. There doesn't have to an actual handoff. At 8:35 the school states they are responsible for the child, period.  The truth is, if the school had put in place common sense procedures, this could not have happened. What is even more maddening to me is it is a closed school building. Not even an open campus concept. Kyron was taken during the time the school says they were responsible.

Legally responsible, sure, if it was after 8:35.  BUT if it was my child, I would personally hold the other parent responsible.  I walk my children to their class every day.  I watch them go inside their classrooms.  I suppose under your ideas of responsibility if a child steps one foot onto school property and then turns around and leaves, the school is responsible for what happens.  I guess they should have staff around the perimeter of the school grounds to ensure that doesn't happen, but then they would have to hire many more staff.

Terri states she left him steps away from the classroom. It is a closed building, she didn't just leave him by the curb. Kyron should have been able to be at school that day. The school is responsible for keeping children safe while in their care. They dropped the ball. I don't know what else to say to you, if we allow a school to not accept responsibilty for losing a child then none of our children will ever be safe.