Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #31 9/27/10 - 10/02/2010

[Desdemona]

I have been lurking of late and will likely remain pretty quiet in this thread if current trends continue.  However, I just wanted to thank a few Monkeys today.  Reading posts from some fellow rafter-sitters and Terri-did-it theorists has lifted my gloom a little bit; I don't feel so alone now.  Thank you to klaas, nicubird, gray, scatty, darla, fatacatlurker, SeeMe, monchichi, McHenry, nana0567, Nana29, nurseratchett, GypsyDD, Claycat, and anyone I've left out, who have been willing to express ideas which seem to be offensive and unpopular in this thread as of late.  I really was feeling frustrated, and the thoughts you expressed mirror my own.  Thank you.

None of us knows what happened.  There are so few facts, and it is a truly convoluted and mysterious case that is rife with rumor, baffling reports, speculation, suspicion, erroneous information, and high emotion.  I stick to my belief that Terri is behind Kyron's disappearance, and will promptly apologize if I'm proven wrong.  I do truly hope I am wrong in my belief about Kyron's fate.  It would be so awesome if this adorable little guy could come home safely at last.

My gratitude is for everyone who posts; not just those who agree with me.  All Monkeys have a right to their opinions, and a right to express them, IMO.

Where are you, Kyron?  Come home soon, little man.  We are all waiting.

[Tracygirl]

Sorry I should not have posted the last post, I didn't realize I was 10+ pages behind. The subject probably has changed!

[no rose colored glasses]

I agree Tracygirl, it isn't like she left him outside, and seriously I would have never given it a thought that my child would disappear inside the school after I said goodbye. But then it has been a very long time since my kids were that age, so maybe now my thoughts would be different and I would walk them to the classroom.

[no rose colored glasses]

I have been lurking of late and will likely remain pretty quiet in this thread if current trends continue.  However, I just wanted to thank a few Monkeys today.  Reading posts from some fellow rafter-sitters and Terri-did-it theorists has lifted my gloom a little bit; I don't feel so alone now.  Thank you to klaas, nicubird, gray, scatty, darla, fatacatlurker, SeeMe, monchichi, McHenry, nana0567, Nana29, nurseratchett, GypsyDD, Claycat, and anyone I've left out, who have been willing to express ideas which seem to be offensive and unpopular in this thread as of late.  I really was feeling frustrated, and the thoughts you expressed mirror my own.  Thank you.

None of us knows what happened.  There are so few facts, and it is a truly convoluted and mysterious case that is rife with rumor, baffling reports, speculation, suspicion, erroneous information, and high emotion.  I stick to my belief that Terri is behind Kyron's disappearance, and will promptly apologize if I'm proven wrong.  I do truly hope I am wrong in my belief about Kyron's fate.  It would be so awesome if this adorable little guy could come home safely at last.

My gratitude is for everyone who posts; not just those who agree with me.  All Monkeys have a right to their opinions, and a right to express them, IMO.

Where are you, Kyron?  Come home soon, little man.  We are all waiting.

I agree with you. It is nice to read other people's thoughts and theories, and none of us know what truly happened.

[Desdemona]

Deenie, great find on the Tualatin LE funeral attended by 1000 people on June 4.  If a perp plans to have a kidnapped or murdered person in his/her vehicle in the processof carrying out the crime, one thought that strikes fear into his/heart is the possibility of a routine traffic stop -- if you get pulled over by police, with the victim/body in your vehicle, you're instant toast.

Yeah, June 4 may have been a perfect storm.

And as for the back-and-forth discussion about the responsibility of the parent versus the responsibility of the school staff, for keeping track of Kyron -- well my thought keeps returning to the idea that Terri had a foot in both of those doors, and that she was aware of this and may have used it to her advantage.  She was a parent AND a frequent fixture at the school, reportedly a friend of the PTA president, and reportedly "worked closely" with Kyron's teacher, Ms. Porter.  I think this may be part of the deliberate "muddying of the water" that has been discussed.  JMO.

[Claycat]

I have been lurking of late and will likely remain pretty quiet in this thread if current trends continue.  However, I just wanted to thank a few Monkeys today.  Reading posts from some fellow rafter-sitters and Terri-did-it theorists has lifted my gloom a little bit; I don't feel so alone now.  Thank you to klaas, nicubird, gray, scatty, darla, fatacatlurker, SeeMe, monchichi, McHenry, nana0567, Nana29, nurseratchett, GypsyDD, Claycat, and anyone I've left out, who have been willing to express ideas which seem to be offensive and unpopular in this thread as of late.  I really was feeling frustrated, and the thoughts you expressed mirror my own.  Thank you.

None of us knows what happened.  There are so few facts, and it is a truly convoluted and mysterious case that is rife with rumor, baffling reports, speculation, suspicion, erroneous information, and high emotion.  I stick to my belief that Terri is behind Kyron's disappearance, and will promptly apologize if I'm proven wrong.  I do truly hope I am wrong in my belief about Kyron's fate.  It would be so awesome if this adorable little guy could come home safely at last.

My gratitude is for everyone who posts; not just those who agree with me.  All Monkeys have a right to their opinions, and a right to express them, IMO.

Where are you, Kyron?  Come home soon, little man.  We are all waiting.

Thanks, Desdemona!

I, too, believe Terri is responsible and that the outcome for Kyron was not good.  I do hope I'm wrong about Kyron. 

[Tracygirl]

Car chase/witness sightings on Sauvie Island:

http://missingpersons.phpbb3now.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46&p=381#p381

amarareign   
 Post subject: Re: Kyron HormanPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:12 am

Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Sauvie Island   
We know for a fact that Kyron's step mom was on Sauvie Island. Not only the cell phone, but eye witness reports that she was out here driving very fast and crazy. There was also another vehicle with her. He drove off the road, due to the speed they were both driving. This was reported to the tip line from people who live on the island and seen this take place. It was the morning that Kyron went missing.

You guys are confusing us as to where to look. There are som many differant places in which you are all talking about..... Now we will wait and pray for someone to find him.

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concernedmama   
 Post subject: Re: Kyron HormanPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:17 am

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 2:28 pm
Posts: 50   
Oh I didn't hear that report...can you link us up?

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amarareign   
 Post subject: Re: Kyron HormanPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 4:27 am

Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Sauvie Island   
Its not on a report. This is a small island. Most of the people have lived out here for years. We have a small knit community on the island. People out here try to pay attention to vehicles and people. We are a tourist trap at this time of year. We have issues with theft on the farms and all sorts on nonsense. We all try to watch out for each other. In other words, people pay attention when anything is not normal. We have our own neighborhood watch as one could say. It has been reported to the proper agency. This is why we feel they have spent so much time out here. There were eye witnesses who wrote down license plate numbers.

We also hope you are right and Kyron is NOT found on the island. We had another tradgedy on the same day Kyron dissapeared. A lot of the people out here are dealing with the loss of a very good friend. If the sherriffs dept. looked somewhere else, it would possibly let our hearts heal for our neighbor and friend.

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laverda   
 Post subject: Re: Kyron HormanPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:35 am

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:35 pm
Posts: 90
Location: Scarborough UK   
Sadie you are doing a wonderful job, keep up the good work. I think we are getting closer all the time, just a little longer.

Does anyone know if the LE are looking at this forum?

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mamarho   
 Post subject: Re: Kyron HormanPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 5:58 am

Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 191   
amarareign, do you know which side of the island terri's truck was spotted?
i'm assuming the west side since that's where searchers were focused, but do you know for sure?

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amarareign   
 Post subject: Re: Kyron HormanPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 6:12 am

Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 145
Location: Sauvie Island   
It was at the end of the island. Terri was not driving the truck. It was a red mustang.

Was it actually Terri or one the many people in that area with red hair? Who was the man in the truck I wonder. What did he look like?

[Tracygirl]

So if Terry went to Kaine's work and traded the truck for the mustang...does anyone think that the the white truck chasing after her may have been the landscaper? Did someone mention he drove a white truck as well? I just don't remember.

Have to admit that thought's crossed my mind and I wonder about it, too.  I'm pretty sure I read in the theory that there were two people in the white truck - a man was driving.

I want to know who was in the truck. Was it Kaine?

[Desdemona]

Terri states she left him steps away from the classroom. It is a closed building, she didn't just leave him by the curb. Kyron should have been able to be at school that day. The school is responsible for keeping children safe while in their care. They dropped the ball. I don't know what else to say to you, if we allow a school to not accept responsibilty for losing a child then none of our children will ever be safe.

With all due respect, TG, that is what "Terri states" happened. 

In other words, we are debating this point about who is responsible with the assumption that what Terri said is what actually happened, and I for one am not willing to accept that assumption.  JMO

"Casey states" that she left Caylee with the fictitional Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez.  "Misty states" that Haleigh was stolen from her bed by an intruder.  "Scott states" that he went fishing and came home to find his pregnant wife Laci missing.  You get the idea.

I have not heard it verified by LE sources that the last contact Terri had with Kyron was as she has described.

I'm thinking and hoping fcl is right, that LE has been able to reconstruct just when and where Kyron was last seen, from the pictures and videos the parents/teachers/students may have recorded that morning. 

Here is fcl's post, which IMO made a great point, and further reminded me/us that we do NOT know everything that LE knows at this point... a mere fraction I would say.

I'd bet they have lots of footage from that day.  Most people have digital camara's and cellphone camara's and use them all the time.  And I remember some report with LE asking for all pictures and footage taken that day.  JMO.

[Scatty]

I have been lurking of late and will likely remain pretty quiet in this thread if current trends continue.  However, I just wanted to thank a few Monkeys today.  Reading posts from some fellow rafter-sitters and Terri-did-it theorists has lifted my gloom a little bit; I don't feel so alone now.  Thank you to klaas, nicubird, gray, scatty, darla, fatacatlurker, SeeMe, monchichi, McHenry, nana0567, Nana29, nurseratchett, GypsyDD, Claycat, and anyone I've left out, who have been willing to express ideas which seem to be offensive and unpopular in this thread as of late.  I really was feeling frustrated, and the thoughts you expressed mirror my own.  Thank you.

None of us knows what happened.  There are so few facts, and it is a truly convoluted and mysterious case that is rife with rumor, baffling reports, speculation, suspicion, erroneous information, and high emotion.  I stick to my belief that Terri is behind Kyron's disappearance, and will promptly apologize if I'm proven wrong.  I do truly hope I am wrong in my belief about Kyron's fate.  It would be so awesome if this adorable little guy could come home safely at last.

My gratitude is for everyone who posts; not just those who agree with me.  All Monkeys have a right to their opinions, and a right to express them, IMO.

Where are you, Kyron?  Come home soon, little man.  We are all waiting.

Thanks Desdemona. There have been moments I've wanted to type the real mature
"WHATEVER!" but thankfully sat on my hands before I embarrassed myself!

I just think we suspect the one person we know of whose stories haven't added up. Known inconsistencies and lies. And in hindsight, what looks very much like groundwork having been laid. Although Cindy Anthony may claim that a liar doesn't make a killer, it's common sense to suspect the liar first. TH may have had help but that's the hardest part to figure out without more info.

[Tracygirl]

I thought it was interesting being it was the same day, June 4, and announced before hand that this would be an event that the locals " I believe" would know of and or have paid attention to.

Rolling Hills Church in  Tualatin is 4 mins from SW Sagert St Tualatin ( Condo of DS)
1.6 Miles apart using the address of the Church and SW Sagert Street Tualatin.

Deenie good catch! There does seem to be little bits and pieces of this story that go along with some of the more read about missing children stories. The school reminds me of Tori in Canada. Then with LE looking for a container reminded me of Sandra. Now this...Very strange indeed.
So if Portland PD was in attendence I wonder if they were running short staffed that day? Was this a way for who ever planned this to somehow stop the panic that would naturally happen when a child goes missing? Interesting Deenie!

[seemeatthebeach]

So if Terry went to Kaine's work and traded the truck for the mustang...does anyone think that the the white truck chasing after her may have been the landscaper? Did someone mention he drove a white truck as well? I just don't remember.

Have to admit that thought's crossed my mind and I wonder about it, too.  I'm pretty sure I read in the theory that there were two people in the white truck - a man was driving.

I want to know who was in the truck. Was it Kaine?

I'm sure LE has verified Kaine was at work. That would be one of the 1st things LE would have done.

[Scatty]

I wonder if a reason the powers that be aren't pointing any fingers at the school for culpability is because they didn't want the school employees to clam up and worry about protecting the school/their job. Was the school just ridiculously naive not to have better security features in place, since I'm sure the hubbub about Portland's propensity for child porn isn't new to Portland dwellers? But if a 'parent' familiar with the school wanted to disappear their child, they'd know how to go about it, so maybe that may take the full burden of responsiblity off the school? I guess we still won't know how responsible (or not) the school may have been until after we find out what happened to Kyron.

And we WILL find out what happend to Kyron. 

[klaasend]

I recieved this email from an WS member that wanted to clear some things up.  They told me it was OK to share

Personally, I am not much of a believer in Astrology pertaining to these cases but I happen to agree with most of their deductions/readings:

I hate to bother you again but the Websleuths astrologers have worked long and hard, garnering quite a reputation and following.  I hate to see their credibility damaged because ABT (Anyone But Terri) became the theme of Scared Monkeys while you were away.  First, Puzzler posted that "all" of the astros agree Kyron's case is a "sexually motivated" crime.  This morning, Puzzler specifically claims Tuba opined this in post #488.
 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8606.msg1238861#msg1238861
 
Would you please be so kind as to ask Puzzler to post links when citing the astrologers?  I've looked and looked and nowhere do I see Tuba writing anything even close.  In fact, Tuba posted this:
 
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5374954&postcount=550
 
"Yes, showing an intuitive or a psychic tie between father & son would be an interesting topic. Go right ahead. As for sexual motivation, I am the wrong astrologer to defend or explain that as I never saw it in the chart. I did see severe betrayal, even treachery. Also, something I would like to clear up because it may have caused confusion although no one has ever asked.
..."
 
Soulscape,suggested within the first few days this may be a sexually motivated crime but has since backed off on that, iirc. 
 
Soulscape's post dated 6/8/2010:  http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5263902&postcount=13
 
Tuba cautioned that more information is needed:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5271299&postcount=18
 
Like Darla posted, while you were away, I often, in fact mostly, found myself shaking my head in disbelief and echoing Darla's, "nuh uh" and "seriously?!?"  I hope you find time to go back and read what went on, including mocking a poster for opining that many crimes are motivated by either sex or money.  Shades of Aruba and the "Anyone But Joran" crew.  Like Natalee, Kyron's is a, "no body no case" situation.  There is no crime scene or evidence to show what happened to Kyron because Terri did not murder him in the truck or home.  We don't know if she murdered him or what.  That is the "concrete evidence" being sought by LE.  Oregon is not Aruba; there is no grand conspiracy to frame innocent security guards (or stepmothers) in order to protect the real culprit. 
 
Tuba has been very clear in writing what the stars say about Terri Horman's guilt and I would be happy to provide many posts to prove it.  This primary point is one that all astrologers really do agree about.  Maybe this isn't cited so much because it doesn't fit the ABT point as well as the astrologically disfavored "sexual motivation." 
 
Please feel free to post any part of this email other than the address/identifiers.  And thanks very much for reading this and hopefully asking for a link from Puzzler.
 
One more thing, for those who believe in astrology yet still want to "suspect" Kaine, butterfly1978 posted:
 
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5375479&postcount=554
 
"In my opinion Kaine had absolutely NOTHING to do with Kyron missing, and its my belief that Kaine mind knows Kyrons fate, his heart may not except it but his mind knows and I believe that he is going over this in his mind constantly. In Kaines chart his Mercury squares his Neptune, which means he lets his imagination go wild, and when a problem comes up he plays the events over and over in his mind, and when he comes to a conclusion in his mind its hard to convince him otherwise.
His personality is the type that appears cold or unemotional but Kaine has Great Love for Kyron, you can see this in the natal charts with Venus conjuct Uranus and also Venus Trine Saturn, the harmony between Kaine and Kyron is amazing Kaine has a tremendous amout of love for Kyron and feels a great amount of responsibility for Kyron. Kaine and Kyron as we say around here are two peas in a pod. They have several aspects that point to not only psychic ties but also mutual interests. You can see this in the natal charts with Mercury sextile Neptune, Jupiter trine Neptune, Jupiter conjunt Uranus, Mars trine Sun.
I am convinced that Kaine felt that something bad happened to Kyron, he probably tried to push this idea out of his head, but I believe this may be why Kaine came home early that day and why Kaine went down to the bus stop to meet Kyron.

As I've said before I'm not very articulate but I hope I put this in terms everyone can understand."
 
Ok, last one -- Tuba believes the murder for hire plot happened:
 
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5381632&postcount=580
 
"What I can tell you about the murder for hire is that the solicitor is under a progressed Full Moon. This is when partnerships, marriages, engagements, trade relations, etc. tend to come apart. Sure, Full Moons are climactic moments but the Moon is pulling one way and the Sun, the other. Relations may endure but if they do, they are stretched at the seams in a telling way. However, the solictor has a high tension complex between malefics right at the site of her progressed Full Moon: Mars conjunct Saturn opposite Jupiter in Scorpio. Therefore, all of this was deadly serious. There were problems outside of where a child resides; bigger issues than that. It is a felony to solicit murder by another hand. "

[klaasend]

I have been lurking of late and will likely remain pretty quiet in this thread if current trends continue.  However, I just wanted to thank a few Monkeys today.  Reading posts from some fellow rafter-sitters and Terri-did-it theorists has lifted my gloom a little bit; I don't feel so alone now.  Thank you to klaas, nicubird, gray, scatty, darla, fatacatlurker, SeeMe, monchichi, McHenry, nana0567, Nana29, nurseratchett, GypsyDD, Claycat, and anyone I've left out, who have been willing to express ideas which seem to be offensive and unpopular in this thread as of late.  I really was feeling frustrated, and the thoughts you expressed mirror my own.  Thank you.

None of us knows what happened.  There are so few facts, and it is a truly convoluted and mysterious case that is rife with rumor, baffling reports, speculation, suspicion, erroneous information, and high emotion.  I stick to my belief that Terri is behind Kyron's disappearance, and will promptly apologize if I'm proven wrong.  I do truly hope I am wrong in my belief about Kyron's fate.  It would be so awesome if this adorable little guy could come home safely at last.

My gratitude is for everyone who posts; not just those who agree with me.  All Monkeys have a right to their opinions, and a right to express them, IMO.

Where are you, Kyron?  Come home soon, little man.  We are all waiting.

Thanks, Desdemona!

I, too, believe Terri is responsible and that the outcome for Kyron was not good.  I do hope I'm wrong about Kyron. 

It's my opinion that one of 2 things happened. 

1.  Terri harmed Kyron and had to hide/dispose of his body

2.  Terri "sold/gave" Kyron to a pedophile out of spite and for money.  Where Kyron is now or if he is alive is unknown.
                                                                                                                           

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks Klaas, I've read some of that astrology stuff before on other cases, haven't bothered with this case, would prefer my info coming from the police, but to each his own I guess. Seems there are a lot of people that hang on the every word of the astrologers, maybe the police could use their expertise 

[Deenie]

  

I don't know what to think any more about this case. It's so hard to find information when do not have access to any. As in Florida with the Sunshine Law.

I look at Casey Anthony and granted she has never said ' one word' for Caylee.
Being able to listen to her " Talk" on the prison jail phones though ... Holy 
To hear her ramble with that tone in her " valley girl mouth snide and all" and how she spoke to every one .. NEVER Ever mentioning Caylee... Very angry though she was arrested on a friggen whim..Everyone was a huge Waste and all she wanted was to talk to her " Boyfriend" ... GAH

Why I bring up Casey is because I do believe she killed Caylee to get revenge, and create a life long pain for Cindy ..and she never thought twice about doing it. I think she felt she was a " Master Mind" and had been planning for months ...setting up Amy, Jesse, creating "Zanny" ..I think Casey thought or still believes she is going to get away with killing Caylee.
With that, and so many " criminal minds" out there that have killed children including their own I simply do not know what to think of Terri .. My mind shuts the door " right before it opens" ..
I believe its my mind/heart trying to protect Kyron.

The lack of info is just so so frustrating. 

[Flymonkey]

Hi Monkeys!  I have to say that you guys have put in a lot of effort and research on this case and you've been consistently going at it.  I really am impressed, but I keep coming back to one problem -- I just don't get the impression that TH is smart enough to have pulled this off.  Does anyone else struggle with this?  You all have come up with some very logical scenarios, but they would have had to be so carefully planned -- TH would have to be a sociopathic genius to do it.  I sure don't mean to discourage anyone, but I'd be interested to hear other opinions on this.

Thanks!

[klaasend]

Hi Monkeys!  I have to say that you guys have put in a lot of effort and research on this case and you've been consistently going at it.  I really am impressed, but I keep coming back to one problem -- I just don't get the impression that TH is smart enough to have pulled this off.  Does anyone else struggle with this?  You all have come up with some very logical scenarios, but they would have had to be so carefully planned -- TH would have to be a sociopathic genius to do it.  I sure don't mean to discourage anyone, but I'd be interested to hear other opinions on this.

Thanks!

You know Flymonkey you would not believe how often in similar cases the same thing is said, the suspect isn't smart enough to carry it off. 

NO, I don't struggle with it at all.  She was smart enough to get a teaching degree.  I don't think she would need to be a genius but she may very well be a sociopath.

Your post actually encourages me.

[fatcatlurker]

Hi Monkeys!  I have to say that you guys have put in a lot of effort and research on this case and you've been consistently going at it.  I really am impressed, but I keep coming back to one problem -- I just don't get the impression that TH is smart enough to have pulled this off.  Does anyone else struggle with this?  You all have come up with some very logical scenarios, but they would have had to be so carefully planned -- TH would have to be a sociopathic genius to do it.  I sure don't mean to discourage anyone, but I'd be interested to hear other opinions on this.

Thanks!

Don't have to be a genius and it appears to be more of a psychopath than a sociopath IMO.

psychopath characteristics are more fitting in this case imo;

Of the more distinguishing traits, some argue the sociopath to be less organized in his or her demeanor, nervous and easily agitated – someone likely living on the fringes of society, without solid or consistent economic support. A sociopath is more likely to spontaneously act out in inappropriate ways without thinking through the consequences.

Conversely, some argue that the psychopath tends to be extremely organized, secretive and manipulative. The outer personality is often charismatic and charming, hiding the real person beneath. Though psychopaths do not feel for others, they can mimic behaviors that make them appear normal. Upon meeting, one would have more of a tendency to trust a psychopath than a sociopath.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-difference-between-a-psychopath-and-a-sociopath.htm