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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #849 10/7/10 - 10/24/10  (Read 234985 times)
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #260 on: October 08, 2010, 06:56:47 PM »

All I know is that it is an EXTREMELY shallow grave to be unfound until now.

I noticed that too. 
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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« Reply #261 on: October 08, 2010, 06:59:02 PM »

Ugh, business as usual in Aruba.....picking up bones with bare hands and walking around on a potential crime scene

It's all so disgusting.  And the lame stories are always so, well, lame!  It's a third world country & dangerous.
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Ono
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« Reply #262 on: October 08, 2010, 07:09:08 PM »

Wonder if Deepak or Satish gave some useful information in their depositions?  Wishful thinking isn't it?

I've been thinking the same.  It's very possible there were some interesting revelations in those depositions.
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crazybabyborg
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« Reply #263 on: October 08, 2010, 07:13:11 PM »

Sorry for the O/T!!

Patriot? Would this be alright for your avi?


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/HALLOWEEN/Patriot-Fall.gif

Love what you found, Klaas!!! BTW, Klaas can put it in for you....... she doesn't mind!   
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klaasend
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« Reply #264 on: October 08, 2010, 07:17:23 PM »

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=4808&offId=0&offDate=2010-10

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1632794964#!/profile.php?id=1632794964&v=wall

Even the Arubans think Natalee

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Rob
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« Reply #265 on: October 08, 2010, 07:35:39 PM »

All I know is that it is an EXTREMELY shallow grave to be unfound until now.

I noticed that too. 

that whole island is a giant belch from the sea floor - in more ways than one.  Monkey Devil!

It's hard to dig down very far, just sayin'
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« Reply #266 on: October 08, 2010, 07:38:21 PM »


it would be great if it were Natalee and we would all rejoice.

However, I can see it now;

The Arubans want that turd back to finally face justice and all the crap that would spring forth.

If that's her - TERRIFIC!  an angelic monkey

Get her home, but never move Joran, EVER.

Let him face justice in Peru. Then the US and Aruba lastly.
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wreck
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« Reply #267 on: October 08, 2010, 08:02:17 PM »


it would be great if it were Natalee and we would all rejoice.

However, I can see it now;

The Arubans want that turd back to finally face justice and all the crap that would spring forth.

If that's her - TERRIFIC!  an angelic monkey

Get her home, but never move Joran, EVER.

Let him face justice in Peru. Then the US and Aruba lastly.
Natalee home and Joran dead in Peru is just fine with me.
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sharon
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« Reply #268 on: October 08, 2010, 08:47:24 PM »

Last one, just to get a jump on them.  Goat skeleton:

http://www.skullsunlimited.com/userfiles/image/variants_large_4868.jpg

 Monkey Devil! Monkey Devil!
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #269 on: October 08, 2010, 09:45:26 PM »

It appears none of the American networks are reporting on the find at Arashi Beach.  Maybe the results regarding whether the remains are human is the reason behind the wait.

Anyways ... it is Canadian Thanksgiving this weekend.  Son, DIL and 4 year old grandson from the Island should be here anytime.  I am sooo excited.

A Thanksgiving dinner on hubby's side will be held on Sunday at his sister and BIL's home.  Lots of Japanese dishes along with the traditional turkey.  LOL  Monday everything will wrap up at my brother and SIL's home with another Turkey dinner.  I will be turkeyed out but that is OK considering I am not doing any of the cooking this year.  My usual contribution to both dinners?  Carrot cake from Safeway.  Presentation is everything. 

I am looking forward to all the activity but ... I know that on Tuesday morning I will appreciate waking surrounded by peace and quiet.  I must be getting old.

Have a good weekend all.  Happy Thanksgiving to all Canadian Monkeys.

 

Janet
6:45 PM PT

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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #270 on: October 08, 2010, 09:48:15 PM »

It appears none of the American networks are reporting on the find at Arashi Beach.  Maybe the results regarding whether the remains are human is the reason behind the wait.

Anyways ... it is Canadian Thanksgiving this weekend.  Son, DIL and 4 year old grandson from the Island should be here anytime.  I am sooo excited.

A Thanksgiving dinner on hubby's side will be held on Sunday at his sister and BIL's home.  Lots of Japanese dishes along with the traditional turkey.  LOL  Monday everything will wrap up at my brother and SIL's home with another Turkey dinner.  I will be turkeyed out but that is OK considering I am not doing any of the cooking this year.  My usual contribution to both dinners?  Carrot cake from Safeway.  Presentation is everything. 

I am looking forward to all the activity but ... I know that on Tuesday morning I will appreciate waking surrounded by peace and quiet.  I must be getting old.

Have a good weekend all.  Happy Thanksgiving to all Canadian Monkeys.

 

Janet
6:45 PM PT



Janet - I wouldn't expect any American media to report on it, not unless a paper in Aruba said it could be Natalee. 

Have a great weekend!
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Anna
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« Reply #271 on: October 08, 2010, 10:49:33 PM »

I would like to see a close up of what appears to be the skull.  Not just other odd bones, etc.

So again we will wait for more information.
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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #272 on: October 08, 2010, 11:35:05 PM »

I would like to see a close up of what appears to be the skull.  Not just other odd bones, etc.

So again we will wait for more information.
The silence is deafening.
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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #273 on: October 09, 2010, 01:41:26 AM »

Just the Burden

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 103:
All my life I've heard people of many faiths talk about "taking it to the cross and turning it over to the Lord" or just simply "turning it over.  Not the work that has to be done.  Just the burden.  I cast it upon Him so that I may be sustained.  And I am renewed, resilient.  Thankful for however long this resurgence in energy will carry me.  I will pick up one foot and put it down.  Then the other one will follow.  I will breathe.  There is much to be done.
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #274 on: October 09, 2010, 01:43:12 AM »

Good Night

Bearlyhere, CarolynV and 3 Guests

 

Janet
10:45 PM PT
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
crazybabyborg
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« Reply #275 on: October 09, 2010, 01:47:29 AM »

I hate waiting........ 


Wreck said it best: Natalee home and Joran dead in Peru is fine with me too!!

Tick, Tock.....
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carpe noctem
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History repeats itself. It's a cyclical beast.


« Reply #276 on: October 09, 2010, 02:40:29 AM »

Quick O/T


If you get a chance Monkeys... and you have an interest in the David Hartley / Mexican Pirate story...

look what I found on Tiffany's sister's FB page.


Here:

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8715.new#new
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For Natalee and Stephany, whatever it takes.

-JUSTICE FOR NATALEE ANN - BOYCOTT ARUBA
------------------
"Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going to do." Thomas Jefferson
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."Thomas Jeff
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #277 on: October 09, 2010, 02:41:22 AM »

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2

10/7/2010 Bondia Page 3



Papiamentu translation:

is seems cu ministerio publico owing to attain two fiscal new fiscal experto on traficacion by person at present is form part by ministerio publico

oranjestad - while cu corte by husticia by aruba owing to attain three judge new, ministerio publico not owing to remain behind. redactor by casonan by corte can owing to compronde cu at ministerio publico have caranan new. have indicacion strong cu ministerio publico at present owing to attain two fiscal new. do not conoci, if they y owing to huramenta but can owing to compronde cu one by the fiscalnan is specialisa in traficacion by person. manner redactor by casonan by corte owing to arrive by publica, for by kingdom hulaandes the senalnan owing to arrive at aruba on traficacion by person y the trato inhumano cu the personanan is attain. esey was motibo also cu owing to bay haci one investigacion at foxy lady caminda among another the propietario owing to wordo deteni. do not nothing strano cu at present ministerio publico is count ; cu one experto on the ground here. apparently have indicacionnan cu will have more actividadnan is tumando lugar in kingdom dutch y cu have to by one experto serca by the actividadnan here before so can actua debidamente. redactor by casonan by corte can owing to compronde cu the two fiscalnan new, recientemente owing to cuminsa is work at ministerio publico. is deal here by mr. lars stemper y mr. vreneli vreeling. mr. stemper owing to arrive by visit aruba come to anend y the is the experto in traficacion by person. is by wait for cu dentro by some will can attain informacion oficial by part by ministerio publico encuanto the two fiscalnan new. come across


http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_79306.php

ARUBA
OM bijna op sterkte
7 Okt, 2010, 14:02 (GMT -04:00)

ORANJESTAD — Met de komst van twee nieuwe officieren, Vreneli Vreeling en Lars Stempher, is het Openbaar Ministerie (OM) bijna op sterkte.

“Er staat nu nog één vacature open”, zegt hoofdofficier Peter Blanken tegen Amigoe. Hij verwacht bovendien dat deze vacature ‘op korte termijn’ wordt vervuld. De nieuwe officieren, beiden afkomstig uit Nederland, zijn deze maand van start gegaan bij het OM. Vreeling houdt zich vooral bezig met zaken van de Landsrecherche, zedendelicten en huiselijk geweld.

Bovendien is ze de districtsofficier van Santa Cruz.

Stempher richt zich voornamelijk op mensenhandel en –smokkel, douanezaken en milieu. Hij is de districtsofficier voor Oranjestad. De resterende vacature voor officier van justitie wordt vermoedelijk vervuld door de Arubaanse Yolanda Pronk.

Zij is momenteel juridisch medewerker belast met jeugdzaken bij het OM. De hoofdofficier bevestigd dat zij op de lijst staat om benoemd te worden.


Google translation:

ARUBA
FOR nearly at full strength
October 7, 2010, 14:02 (GMT -04:00)

ORANGE CITY - With the arrival of two new officers, Vreneli Vreeling and Lars Stempher, the Public Prosecutor (OM) low strength.

"There is now a vacant," said Chief Peter Blanken at Daily Herald. He also expects the vacancy in the short run 'is completed. The new officers, both from the Netherlands, this month started with the PPS. Vreeling deals mainly with matters of the Land Investigation, sex crimes and domestic violence. Moreover, they district officer of Santa Cruz.

Stempher focuses primarily on smuggling, customs and environment. He is the district officer for Orange City. The remaining vacancy for prosecutor is probably filled by the Aruban Yolanda Pronk.

She is currently a legal assistant responsible for youth affairs in the OM. The chief confirmed that it is on the list to be appointed.

Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #278 on: October 09, 2010, 03:34:42 AM »

Lars Stempher

Found this magazine article from May 2010

http://www.om.nl/actueel/opportuun/@153625/opportuun_mei_2010/

from the index:
Ten countries at a table to an international smuggling gang to detect. Prosecutor Lars Stempher is involved in Operation Diever ", investigating a possible cell of the international gang in Leeuwarden. The easy thing for him is part of an international collaboration with EU Member States and Eurojust.
>> All things considered human trafficking case Diever



Eurojust is the pivot of a border research smuggling officer Lars Stempher turned.
"For us it was a simple matter, but international situation was different. "

Research in Europe
EU Member States will address jointly organized international human trafficking

Early 2008 found possible illegal activities take place from an ordinary apartment in a suburb of
Leeuwarden. There are indications that Iraqi Kurds through the illegal smuggling to neighboring property countries. The suspects are members of a large international gang.

Lars Stempher, Public of the National Public Prosecutor in Zwolle, packed together with a research team from the Royal Constabulary on the matter. Eurojust is also there involved. Fixed eagle, national representative at Eurojust for the Netherlands: "Ten EU countries were working on the case. It is careful that the international teams do not drive the wheels. "

Cell in Leeuwarden
The information on the internationally active gang comes from the French justice under the name "L'opération Baghdad" behind a gang of smugglers sitteth at meat. Cells of the gang from work Turkey, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, China, Bangladesh and Europe and smuggling dozens, possibly hundreds People from Milan to Paris via Calais England, Scandinavia, Belgium and Germany.  French justice provides information in advance to: a cell would operate from its location in Leeuwarden.  Telephone numbers, used cars and pictures of a defendant be passed. Then start the A survey of the National Prosecutor not significant name Diever. Lars Stempher let phones tapping, questioning systems, links and pictures and names observe the house: "Soon we were three people in pictures. For us it was a simple matter. But internationally was different. "

Eurojust meeting
In the meantime, at the instigation of the French incidental to the first international scheduled at Eurojust insight into the various investigations. The national representatives, case officers and team leaders of Britain, Greece, Belgium, Netherlands, Ireland, Germany, Denmark, Sweden,
Italy and France are together at Eurojust in The Hague. Each country gives a presentation of what the research has produced its own branches. "That could in your own language, "explains Lars Stempher out.  "Interpreters translated the speeches. Through headphones could everyone in his own language what the other said. The facilities where Eurojust has been perfect. "

Cross-border
Eurojust is composed of 27 national representatives, one from each EU member state. The representatives are seconded and permanently established in The Hague.  They are mostly prosecutors, sometimes assisted by an assistant or an expert. Twice weekly meeting, the representatives of meeting and ongoing international criminal research studies. "In the EU we have to with 23 different languages and 30 different legal systems that often powers of OM, ZM police and different methods and invested heavily differences, "explains Eagle Lock off. "Then it is very useful quickly to consult or make agreements with the Eurojust representative here in the building. "Eurojust was established in 2002 for judicial cooperation and information exchange to promote within the EU. End of 2008 at the European level decided for emergencies (eg in controlled delivery or task of conducting emergency assistance requests) independent powers to the national representatives grant. There is a 24 / 7 accessibility provided and information on transnational crime at Eurojust concentrated. In June 2011 will be endorsed law and fact should be regulated. The Dutch representative at Eurojust will as deputy chief part to make The National Prosecutor: it is formal and practical the link with the National Office and the Dutch OM laid. Arend Fixed: "Representatives of the different countries together to for advice on the progress of an investigation. There may be pressure exercised in a diplomatic way. Sometimes Dutch is the prioritization of capacity not understood if we detect an indication of assistance request is too vague to find out if the criminal minimal. But with a phone conversation, I For example, how explain why this international an important investigation. And, next time we have the necessary counterparts abroad! The goal is always to effectively cross tackling crime, especially when organized crime and at least two EU countries, '.

Diever
Back to Operation Diever. Lars says Stempher Eurojust during the first meeting that the Netherlands three persons have been identified, of which it is that two of them are in contact with the cell in Paris.  "We were clear that there were people retrieved from France to be transported to Sweden. "The English delegates confirm turn it a destination, but no criminal investigation had started. In France and Italy are the biggest investigations.  Paris shows mainly a gathering place for Iraqi illegals. "The advantage of the Eurojust meeting was that the size of the appraisal work came into the picture, "  said Lars Stempher. "Now we are each other's eyes had observed was also much easier to later contacts. "  "The Dutch study was quite small and runs insightful, up to the first incident occurred. There were observed four illegal immigrants in a house, a flat in Leeuwarden. Because we in the Netherlands pass the ban know we had to intervene. The Police kept the illegals aliens. This actions were not traffickers arrested. "

Action Day
During the second meeting Eurojust Concrete agreements on the international roll of the smuggling gang. Nine EU countries to agree on joint action June 23, 2008 to proceed. Before the action day, Lars Stempher with two incidents it. A suspect driving Three illegal immigrants to Sweden and, in collaboration with German colleagues in Germany arrested. The suspect is sent back Netherlands. With additional information from case Germany is the suspect here continues. A other suspect arrested in Germany as He illegally from the Netherlands with a bound for Scandinavia. On the joint action day in all countries involved 76 people arrested searches have taken place. 1332 Police officers are involved. Both in Germany arrested suspects be sued two smuggling incidents and participation in a criminal organization was involved in smuggling.  The third suspect is only participating in the criminal organization accused.

"Smugglers are abuse of dependent situation which is illegal located. "

Not only LP Cases
"Baghdad" was not the only international business in 2008 Eurojust with a major role. Total In that year there were 1,200 criminal cases a small opened through Eurojust. Each year that number is.  "This includes not only large-scale business with international stature by the National Office are affected, "warns the Dutch Representative Eurojust Fixed eagle. "Many times I have to region with prosecutors. For example, when parquet Arnhem ran a drug case involving hash of Morocco was smuggled to the Netherlands. We with the Spanish representative at Eurojust (which a downstairs sitting) to sit down to to ensure that we are trustworthy people advance coordinated searches and seizures of bank accounts in Spain, Morocco and the Netherlands could not deliver. Eurojust was also involved example been requested by the Haarlem package.  There were in Spain, including arrests and searches were carried out simultaneously, but after arrests were the houses until three weeks later searched. There was nothing to be found: the houses stripped away the fleet and the yachts disappeared.  Upon inquiry with the Spanish representative Eurojust showed that in Spain the police arrests, but the magistrate-via a different route responsible for searches. This is not mutually aligned so close we now after briefly with foreign colleagues. Important is that your level of OM and HM contact. The relationship with the police is still strong in some countries hierarchical and distant, which makes our police liaisons. So we now know that Some EU countries are directly "to enter" in a drug case, but if you suspect fraud "First ring and wait" Here we find often is a workable solution. "

People in need
But as I said does the international operation "Baghdad" prosper. In the Netherlands, three defendants brought to justice.  Lars Stempher: "During the meeting gave the suspects that their neighbors, their countrymen, helped to escape war. They provided services to people in need. But that was consistent not with the research findings. It was always about money. During the study period were smuggling activities canceled because too few earned would be "knows Lars Stempher. "You see more often in human trafficking, smugglers are abuse of the dependent situation of illegal immigrants located and ask exorbitant prices. "  Two suspects are in accordance with the requirement for all Facts sentenced to 16 months with five cell probation with a probation of two years. The third suspect is acquitted. One of the two was convicted appealed.

On a table
Meantime, Lars Stempher via Eurojust French informed of the Dutch developments.  "That was an ideal way of working. The French received information from all countries. They could, if necessary, European arrest warrants have entertainment and direct legal assistance requests at Eurojust. "All countries in a table, accessible and with good facilities exist - which prosecution can be easily arranged - have a positive experience for Lars Stempher. "If we questions of justice had levels that could very quickly through the Eurojust representative of the country covered be. Europol is essentially at police level.  It's fast, practical and professional and costs nothing. "

Text: Thea van der Geest | Photo: Herman Engbers
Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #279 on: October 09, 2010, 03:42:44 AM »

Another article from Dec 2009

http://www.trouw.nl/krantenarchief/2009/12/03/2930503/Justitie_hoopt_eindelijk_slag__te_slaan_met_Koolvis-zaak.html

Google translation:

Justice hopes to finally do battle with Saithe case
Trafficking

Police and judiciary deal regularly accused traffickers. But after going in the wrong courtroom. 'Pollack' should now be successful.

 
The trafficker is a modern slave driver. This comparison seeks justice to the seriousness of the crime clear. "It's not a semi-fashionable term, but describes what it is," said prosecutor Lars Stempher two months ago before the court in Zwolle.

Ten suspects are up there in the so-called 'Koolvis' case. They hear their sentences today for the alleged trafficking and exploitation of dozens of Nigerian girls.

The victims were the gang from Dutch asylum centers to soliciting areas in Italy and Spain are traded. Stempher: "These are practices that we now agree that for centuries they are degrading."

In recent years, the priority given to tackling human trafficking law enforcement. There are specialized prosecutors come. The maximum penalties are increased from six to twelve years. There is now closely working with source countries such as Hungary and Nigeria.

It has some effect. The investigators suspected traffickers deal regularly.

The problems arise in the courtroom. This year there were two major trafficking cases painfully piece. In July the court in Den Bosch the Public Prosecutor (OM) inadmissible in the 'Raptus' case. A Chinese gang suspected of smuggling among others, attempted murder and extortion, were left behind. The prosecution klungelde with such an important witness that "the truth has come into question, the court ruled.

Last month was in court in Alkmaar similarly wrong for the PPS. In this' case had Sierra' Justice also declared inadmissible, partly due to the withholding of folders full tapgesprekken.

"The suspect is in his interests have been harmed and misled the court," said the judge. The Bulgarian gang suspected of trafficking, forced prostitution and rape, Fri

In the notorious case Snape followed last summer or convictions. The Turkish German Saban B cell was 7.5 years, 2.5 years his brother Hasan. Low penalties, the OM is for men who gave leadership to an extremely violent gang of traffickers in women. To everyone's dismay Saban B. disappeared three months ago without a trace. The court in Arnhem had agreed to leave unaccompanied.

His escape justice has thrown back in time. Victims of trafficking are afraid to report. What Saban B. succeed, their dealer also succeed, they think.

There is justice now dedicated to make the 'Koolvis' case to a success. Confidence in the OM as a successful fighter of the trafficker must return. Against the two main suspects in mid October eight years jail.

The evidence is spread over 65 files and is very similar. There are, in addition to numerous reports interception, ten statements from alleged victims.

The Nigerian girls who have made after discussions with an experienced practitioner and a preacher. That is wrong, like the lawyers. They want the court OM inadmissible.

"How can a former victim, traumatized self, these girls let go," asks lawyer Marielle van Essen wondered aloud. "The expert has experience their many beautiful promises, a license and a house in exchange for an accusation. Then there is a pastor who screams like hell and damnation you allegedly not telling the truth. "

Those calls are summarized by the defense as "the factory explanation of the Public."

Stempher all charges against officer speaks. He criticizes the lawyers' to be looking for the big conspiracy. " "We sometimes do not know whether we laughable or ridiculous or even paranoid to find."

What the judge think, will appear this afternoon.
Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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