A Mormon in the White House

[pdh3]

There are Muslim women running their own businesses too. Does that mean the same thing, then?
I am not surprised that Mitt Romney appeals to the very conservative in this country, because he paints such a pretty picture....the perfect Barbie wife, many cute children, financial success. Good Hair. But I know what I know about the Mormon culture, and I think he's scary. As scary as any Muslim would be. I would feel the same if a fundamental Baptist was running for President as well.
Any extreme is wrong, whether it's far right or far left. This country needs someone who can fall somewhere in the middle. Anything else will be very divisive in a time when America really needs to pull together. Mitt Romney could never relate to an inner city, struggling blue-collar family trying to find their American Dream, and he'll never get their support.

[mrs. red]

There are Muslim women running their own businesses too. Does that mean the same thing, then?
I am not surprised that Mitt Romney appeals to the very conservative in this country, because he paints such a pretty picture....the perfect Barbie wife, many cute children, financial success. Good Hair. But I know what I know about the Mormon culture, and I think he's scary. As scary as any Muslim would be. I would feel the same if a fundamental Baptist was running for President as well.
Any extreme is wrong, whether it's far right or far left. This country needs someone who can fall somewhere in the middle. Anything else will be very divisive in a time when America really needs to pull together. Mitt Romney could never relate to an inner city, struggling blue-collar family trying to find their American Dream, and he'll never get their support.

there is a book called ON the Plantation that addresses this issue of the inner city... written by a black woman... you should check it out.

the truth is no inner city person will ever vote Republican...

I am actually in favor of Fred Thompson getting offically in the ring and kicking some butt.....

[nonesuche]

pdh3- I don't find Mitt "scarey" as you do but I also think to say any politician or fortunate person to escape poverty and as he did inherit financial security can't relate to the poverty-stricken is incorrect. Some of our greatest philanthropists have come from the inherited wealth ranks? I think the truth of that is far more likely as Mrs Red posted, that the republican platform isn't a good fit for the ideals and desires of the inner city segment.

You do continue to hone in on the idealism of how we should embrace the muslim faith. I don't think anyone on this thread has called out ALL muslims but rather the radical factions within the muslim religion. That religion is now akin to Hitler's drive to power, if you miss that fact then I wanted to clarify it for you again. As I tried to relate in a former post even christians in Pakistan are now being terrorized, or read some of what France and the like have been experiencing, or Britain or even the Netherlands. All embraced that population early on and now each is struggling to keep their countries and natural citizens safe from terrorism's clutches.

There is a difference between idealism and practice, however pragmatic that is or difficult for some to digest feeling it's harsh, well no 'ideal' is ever truly proven except through historical 'practice' and 'success'. I don't define terrorism as a successful direct impact.

[nonesuche]

I want to ensure I clarify I meant the radical factions of the muslim religion as akin to Hitler's drive for power, I don't want further misinterpretations made.

[Dihannah1]

There are Muslim women running their own businesses too. Does that mean the same thing, then?
I am not surprised that Mitt Romney appeals to the very conservative in this country, because he paints such a pretty picture....the perfect Barbie wife, many cute children, financial success. Good Hair. But I know what I know about the Mormon culture, and I think he's scary. As scary as any Muslim would be. I would feel the same if a fundamental Baptist was running for President as well.
Any extreme is wrong, whether it's far right or far left. This country needs someone who can fall somewhere in the middle. Anything else will be very divisive in a time when America really needs to pull together. Mitt Romney could never relate to an inner city, struggling blue-collar family trying to find their American Dream, and he'll never get their support.

   I'm a Fundamental Baptist....  I don't THINK I'm radical  

[Dihannah1]

I'm not proclaiming I would vote for him, but a couple of things he states really stood out that I have highlighted.   Must be the Baptist in me.

LYNCHBURG, Va. (May 19) - Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich challenged Liberty University's graduating class Saturday to honor the spirit of school founder Jerry Falwell  by confronting "the growing culture of radical secularism" with Christian ideals.
 
Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich delivers the commencement address Saturday at Liberty University in Lynchburgh, Va. He praised the school's founder, the Rev. Jerry Falwell, who died Tuesday.

Gingrich, a Republican  considering a 2008 presidential run, repeatedly quoted Bible passages to a mournful crowd of about 17,000 packed into the university's football stadium four days after Falwell's death.

"A growing culture of radical secularism declares that the nation can not profess the truths on which it was founded," Gingrich said. "We are told that our public schools can no longer invoke the creator, nor proclaim the natural law nor profess the God-given quality of human rights.

"In hostility to American history, the radical secularists insist that religious belief is inherently divisive and that public debate can only proceed on secular terms," he said.

Gingrich also rebuked what he said was an American judiciary that had gone too far separating church and state.
"Too often, the courts have been biased against religious believers. This anti-religious bias must end," he said.

In a news conference later, Gingrich said Falwell's death has not slowed the Christian right's efforts.

"I think anybody on the left who hopes that when people like Reverend Falwell disappear that the opportunity to convert all of America has gone with them fundamentally misunderstands why institutions like this were created," Gingrich said.

Gingrich also said he won't decide until October whether to run for president, and when he does, he won't subject himself to what he called "game show" debate formats for already declared candidates 18 months before the November 2008 election.

"I am totally uninterested in applying for a game show as if this were the equivalent of `Bachelor' or `American Idol' where some television personality defines the interrogation, decides who to call on, tells them they have 30 seconds, cuts them off. I mean, how do you get to be the leader of America if you're already subordinate," he said.

Liberty's commencement services have become a forum for conservative politicians. Last year's address came from Republican presidential candidate John McCain , who used the opportunity to make amends with Falwell after attacking him by name during McCain's failed 2000 White House bid.

It also was the first commencement without Falwell, the Baptist preacher who established the church-based university in 1971, before he founded the Moral Majority that helped elect Ronald Reagan  president in 1980.

On Tuesday morning, the 73-year-old Falwell was discovered without a pulse in his office at Liberty and pronounced dead at a hospital about an hour later. His physician said Falwell had a heart condition and presumably died of a heart rhythm abnormality.

His funeral was set for Tuesday.

"No one can replace dad, but," he said before he choked with emotion. Applause rippled across the crowd as he struggled to regain his composure. ".... But there's a team here ready to carry on and we're going to give it everything we have as he did for so long."

Falwell intended Liberty to be his most enduring legacy. He envisioned it as a "Protestant Notre Dame," projecting fundamentalist Christianity for generations. He saw it as a training ground for conservative politicians, lawyers and judges - warriors in what Falwell perceived as a cultural war against liberals, gay rights, legalized abortion and forces he saw as a threat to Christianity. Falwell took pride in national championships Liberty's debate team has won.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.
2007-05-19 18:45:55

[pdh3]

I would never listen to anything Newt Gingrich had to say, because he is like Rush Limbaugh to me....a huge, hypocritical, attention-hungry man who says one thing and does another. Mr. Gingrich was one of Bill Clinton's harshest critics, when, all the while, he was committing adultery, and had been for a long time. Nothing he has to say has any credibility, as far as I'm concerned.

And let me say, once again, that I am pointing out that there are other religions that want political power besides Muslims, and all extremes are dangerous, no matter how well-intentioned they start out to be. This country was founded on freedom of religion, and I believe in that philosophy strongly. I am not defending any one religion, but I am saying that over-reaction and hysteria don't help anyone reach a clear understanding of the real issues. No one religion is all wrong or all right for every citizen in this country. We were also founded on Christian principles, but there are thousands of different interpretations of those Christian ideals. What I believe this country needs is someone who can unite us, and someone on the far right or far left will lose the attention of the majority of the people who make up America in 2007.

Not all inner-city families are black. Some are white, some are hispanic, some are Asian, but they have different issues than a suburban Soccer Mom, who might also be black, Asian , hispanic or white. In today's America, it's more an economic issue than solely a race issue.
And no one can truly understand something until they have lived it. A man who has never had to worry about money cannot begin to grasp the desperation of choosing between paying the mortage or buying groceries.
I think character comes from overcoming obstacles and hardships, from being the kind of person who can rise up from a difficult situation, like John McCain, whom I respect so much. What real struggle has Mitt Romney ever faced in his life? What has he done to really develop true character?
Mitt Romney is just another rich boy, and I doubt he has any idea what it feels like to pull up to the gas pump with a knot in his stomach.

[LouiseVargas]

Pdh3,

I would never listen to anything Newt Gingrich had to say either.

[nonesuche]

pdh3- at least we both agree about gingrich?

I don't see Mitt's wife as 'barbie', she has had to deal with MS which is no small disease and pursued experimental therapy as well. Having lived through the pursuit of experimental treatment with Rick, it's daunting for not only do you suffer the side effects but also big hoops you have to leap through to even gain entrance into those trials and also hearing from at least half of those involved how it likely won't work? She stated she descended into a deep depression, I don't doubt it, actually post our experience I'd likely forgoe putting myself thru all those hoops.

Sure Mitt grew up with major funds but that doesn't always mean an individual is without compassion or unable to empathize with the problems facing the common man. I actually am more concerned that our president's cabinet can focus in on domestic issues at that level, to free up our president to face the larger fiscal (SSA for one), immigration law, and also global issues. I had nothing against John McCain until this last debate, I don't know how many of you listened to it but I did - twice in fact for it was rebroadcast last Saturday.

Outside of the abortion bombers from the radical christian factions I don't believe any other religion within our borders has a radical theology stating their goal is to eradicate our race as do many of the radical muslims? So I  can't share  your opinion that we're comparing apples to oranges here.

[Dihannah1]

Please notice, I said I wouldn't vote for him, nor am I crazy about him.

[Kkial]

This may be a little OT, but very interesting and does meld into the posts
 

"President Bush is not to blame for the rampant immorality of blacks. Had New Orleans' black community taken action, most would have been out of harm's way. But most were too lazy, immoral and trifling to do anything productive for themselves".

New Orleans Went Under--A Black Man's Comments
 Carefully read the whole article. You'll be amazed at this guy!!!

I don't know the man who wrote this, but I looked at his picture and read it with my mouth hanging open. He says things here that no white man could ever write and keep his job as a writer .



By



Say a hurricane is about to destroy the city you live in.  Two questions:

What would you do?

What would you do if you were black?

Sadly, the two questions don't have the same answer.

To the first: Most of us would take our families out of that city quickly to protect them from danger. Then, able-bodied men would ret urn to help others in need, as wives and others cared for children, elderly, infirm and the like.

For better or worse, Hurricane Katrina has told us the answer to the second question. If you're black and a hurricane is about to destroy your city, you'll probably wait for the government to save you.

This was not always the case. Prior to 40 years ago, such a pathetic performance by the black community in a time of crisis would have been inconceivable. The first response would have come from black men. They would take care of their families, bring them to safety, and then help the rest of the community. Then local government would come in.

No longer. When 75 percent of New Orleans residents had left the city, it was primarily immoral, welfare-pampered blacks that stayed behind and waited for the government to bail them out. This, as we know, did not turn out good results.

Enter Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan. Jackson and Farrakhan laid blame on "racist" President Bush. Farrakhan actually proposed the idea that the government blew up a levee so as to kill blacks and save whites. The two demanded massive governmental spending to rebuild New Orleans, above and beyond the federal government's proposed $60 billion. Not only that, these two were positioning themselves as the gatekeepers to supervise the dispersion of funds. Perfect: Two of the most dishonest elite blacks in America, "overseeing" billions of dollars. I wonder where that money will end up.

Of course, if these two were really serious about laying blame on government, they should blame the local one. Responsibility to perform legally and practically fell first on the mayor of New Orleans. We are now all familiar with Mayor Ray Nagin the black who likes to yell at President Bush for failing to do Nagin's job. The facts, unfortunately, do not support Nagin's wailing. As the Washington Times puts it, "recent reports show [Nagin] failed to follow through on his own city's emergency-response plan, which acknowledged that thousands of the city's poorest residents would have no way to evacuate the city."

One wonders how there was "no way" for these people to evacuate the city. We have photographic evidence telling us otherwise. You've probably seen it by now the photo showing 2,000 parked school buses, unused and underwater. How much planning does it require to put people on a bus and leave town, Mayor Nagin?

Instead of doing the obvious, Mayor Nagin (with no positive contribution from Gov. Kathleen Blanco, the other major leader vested with responsibility to address the hurricane disaster) loaded remaining New Orleans residents into the Superdome and the city's convention center. We know how that plan turned out.

About five years ago, in a debate before the National Association of Black Journalists, I stated that if whites were to just leave the United States and let blacks run the country, they would turn America into a ghetto within 10 years. The audience, shall we say, disagreed with me strongly. Now I have to disagree with me. I gave blacks too much credit. It took a mere three days for blacks to turn the Superdome and the convention center into ghettos, rampant with theft, rape and murder.

President Bush is not to blame for the rampant immorality of blacks. Had New Orleans' black community taken action, most would have been out of harm's way. But most were too lazy, immoral and trifling to do anything productive for themselves.

All Americans must tell blacks this truth. It was blacks' moral poverty not their material poverty that cost them dearly in New Orleans. Farrakhan, Jackson, and other race hustlers are to be repudiated for they will only perpetuate this problem by stirring up hatred and applauding moral corruption. New Orleans, to the extent it is to be rebuilt, should be remade into a dependency-free, morally strong city where corruption is opposed and success is applauded. Blacks are obligated to help themselves and not depend on the government to care for them. We are all obligated to tell them so.

The Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson is founder and president of BOND, the Brotherhood Organization of A New Destiny, and author of "Scam: How the Black Leadership Exploits Black America."

Keep this moving,,,,,,

Note: The above was checked out with Snopes.com and is found to be true. If you desire check it out.
 http://www.snopes.com/katrina/soapbox/peterson

[nonesuche]

kkial-

I appreciate you posting this, there do appear to be many shades of gray within what happened in those first days post Katrina, my suspicion is there is blame to be shared on many sides.

I've waited to see if anyone here would post about the recent campaign on the part of hip-hop and rap stars to speak to the youth black community regarding their new contention that bling ain't all that and that education matters? My hope is they will do more than talk the talk but that isn't just a one race problem, but this has seemed to come post the Don Imus event? I have wondered if that was some form of impetus?

Today I saw this regarding a Liberty Univ student who was angered by the protests at Falwell's funeral. Having been to that campus it is quite isolated and I have to wonder why these students weren't prepared for having such a public figure like Falwell and the inherent detractors that surely were to come at his death also? It's disturbing to see this student thought bombs were the answer? So this is an example of what religion in the extreme can do, the horror of it. http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/bomb-plot-falwell-funeral/20070522174309990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

[LouiseVargas]

Kkial,

Your post was fabulous. I admire you because I've never before heard anyone speak out so truthfully about blacks and Katrina.

Standing on a chair applauding you. clap clap clap clap clap

[LouiseVargas]

Nonesy,

I want to discuss the rap lyrics situation with you, only I'm tired now. If I forget, it would be wonderful if you could remind this old woman. Looking forward.

[nonesuche]

I will Louise, I found the timing interesting in that I'm sure many of you remember Tipper Gore's campaign against the music industry in the last decade when rap emerged? I agree with her, the time I spent having to ride shotgun with my son when he had his drivers learning permit taught me all I needed to hear regarding those issues. Some of those songs are still like ear worms with me, I hear the first few bars and I go UGH !

It's a huge industry and like professional sports, one where black americans have had the opportunity to drive those markets and it's evolution. So now why would they move to undercut the very culture that has supported it's growth? I have to wonder for I somehow am reticent to believe it's for moral reasons?

[nonesuche]

This is a new report released this week regarding the US Muslim population's position regarding suicide attacks. I do have some concerns as to how the sampling was drawn and also how some of the questions were phrased. It appears more detail in the questioning could have clarified this better.

The most interesting data secured in this is for Muslims below the age of 30

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/some-us-muslims-say-suicide-attacks-ok/20070522231809990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

[Dihannah1]

Kkial,

Your post was fabulous. I admire you because I've never before heard anyone speak out so truthfully about blacks and Katrina.

Standing on a chair applauding you. clap clap clap clap clap

I totally agree! I probably would never say it myself, but this person speaks volumes!

I'd like to join that Rap lyrics discussion too....

[Dihannah1]

This is a new report released this week regarding the US Muslim population's position regarding suicide attacks. I do have some concerns as to how the sampling was drawn and also how some of the questions were phrased. It appears more detail in the questioning could have clarified this better.

The most interesting data secured in this is for Muslims below the age of 30

http://news.aol.com/topnews/articles/_a/some-us-muslims-say-suicide-attacks-ok/20070522231809990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

I saw 3 young, very educated, bright muslim people speak on this, this m orning on CNN news.  I was impressed with many of there comments, but don't have time to go into it now.  I'll have to see if I can find the transcripts later.

[sb]

This is the first time I have ever posted on this part of our Cage.

I want to say that I believe that Romney wiill be, and SHOULD be, our next President. He is closer to my beliefs and principles than any other candidate as far as political and socio-cultural views, with the possible exception of Thompson. I know plenty enough about Mormonism and I can say that theology and actual doctrine are FAR down the list of driving forces that impel the Mormon to be a part of that denomination. They are pretty much all about the "family" kick and the emphasis on tradition and morality. I have zero quarrel with those things. I have plenty of trouble with Mormon theology and doctrine in many key areas... such as when they substitute mysticism for Scripture and emphasize the primacy of one church denomination (theirs) above all others, and essentially believe that their particular group is the exclusive holder of God's truth, that one must be a member of their group to be assured of Heaven. This is NOT a prerogative God ever has assigned to any denomination. I strongly disagree with THAT aspect of the belief system the Mormons hold to. I know the story of Joseph Smith and what his shortcomings were, and I know what impelled his invention of Mormonism. That is not a pretty study and is not necessary to delve into here.  

BUT that is not what I am voting for.

I believe that for this country to survive past 2008, it must vote AGAINST hillary and obama. At All Costs. Period. End of discussion.

We NEED a strong, moral, consistent, skilled man with the right set of core beliefs and Romney is about as good as we can get.

I was not aware that Romney at one time was lukewarm on the abortion issue- most Mormons are as staunchly pro-life as I am. I am NOW satisfied with his position. Ronald Reagan upheld existing abortion laws early on when first elected as governor of California.

Romney has demonstrated leadership and skill. That sets him apart from any candidate the left has pushed forward. What has hillary ever governed? What has obama ever led? Where is their area of expertise? They seem to specialize in making noisy speeches and assuming bug-eyed looks of anger at what President Bush does, and that doesn't qualify them to be elected to ANYTHING in my book.

Liberals think a Presidential election is a socio-cultural statement. It is NOT. It is a choice of a leader. GOOD GRIEF! hillary actually LEAD something?

There is absolutely no reason for anyone to vote "against" Bush in any way, when Jan. 20, 2009 hits 12 noon, he has no more power and can affect nothing after that date. The next president must be elected on his own merits and for his own program. Not as an act of revenge against the previous president's views. How STUPID that is.

One more little rant... It is a dangerous thing when we let bitterness at individuals shape our views or opinions of things. I run into so many people who denigrate Christianity, because of individual Christians and their supposed "offenses" which they committed against the denigrator. Being a Christian and a minister, that bothers me because I don't want to be held accountable for what someone else did that may not represent Christ at all. I hear so many criticize men, because of what "a" man did to them before. Being a man, that disturbs me.

A person's view of Christianity ought to be based on a view of Christ and not on what someone else does that Christ may not sanction at all. Likewise, an ad-hominem view of politics is wrong. I don't hate liberalism because I despise bill clinton, he is just an exemplar of the things about liberalism that I detest so much. BTW neither he nor Newt Gingrich conduct their personal lives in a way that I approve of even though their politics are pole-end opposite to one another.

That's my one post for tonight. Back to catching up on Natalee's forum.

[LouiseVargas]

sb,

Thank you for coming over to visit us!!!! Please come back as we can have more discussions.

With love,
Louise