Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 - 10/17/10

[Monkey King]

Puzzler~

That's because in June, they were saying it was approx 6 months ago that the MFH plan was discussed. 

[fatcatlurker]

I thought March was the first 911 call where RS supposedly assualted Terri with Kiara in her arms - which btw Jonser/TJ is saying was a kiss per Dede?!

[Lazydog1]

I have a question for everyone regarding the visitation request between TH and Kiara.

If she has to appear in the court to show just cause why she should be allowed parenting time with her daughter then can't they question her in that case also? Afterall she is obviously being investigated in the disappearance of Kyron and all fingers seem to be pointing at her. I would want to know if she did it before agreeing to parenting time. I would think they could question her about that then.

JMO

[cw618]

Precedent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedent

points to ponder
this case of what normally would be a normal proceeding of divorce
could change some rulings, because of the (maybe not the right word)
abnormal circumstances, form reading the wiki
but im not a legal eagle, the above article sites

Question of fact
In law, a question of fact (also known as a point of fact) is a question which must be answered by reference to facts and evidence, and inferences arising from those facts. Such a question is distinct from a question of law, which must be answered by applying relevant legal principles. The answer to a question of fact (a "finding of fact") is usually dependent on particular circumstances or factual situations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Question_of_fact

[klaasend]

I have a question for everyone regarding the visitation request between TH and Kiara.

If she has to appear in the court to show just cause why she should be allowed parenting time with her daughter then can't they question her in that case also? Afterall she is obviously being investigated in the disappearance of Kyron and all fingers seem to be pointing at her. I would want to know if she did it before agreeing to parenting time. I would think they could question her about that then.

JMO

She will plead the 5th

[Kat_Gram]

If she makes the visitation motion, then Kaine would have to have some reasons to try to have it denied. With the on going investigation who is going to say why ? The police ?
It's really a catch-22. They've never named her a POI a suspect or anything, it's Kaine who has had the microphone.
I can see supervised visitation with alot of condiitons. Unless something happens in the meantime. Kiara has to be the number one concern, but unless there are some compelling legal reasons where there is proof, how could it be denied ?
..
 I was surprised that a precise day for the 911 calls Dec 26 from HER lawyer in a DIVORCE case was asked for and denied. Her lawyer wouldn't ask for incriminating to Terri stuff would he ?

[monchichi]

You mean they didn't petition the court prior?  They just wanted to make sure the courts didn't have more damning information so they wanted to wait until after they received the Abatement? 

"Yet, if a divorce abatement is granted, Bunch said he'd asked the court to alter the current "no parenting time" restriction Terri Horman faces to allow some type of supervised, reasonable contact between Terri Horman and her daughter, Kiara."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/judge_delays_terri_and_kaine_h.html

He was waiting to see if the abatement would be granted first?!

Colour me confused.

Evidence that would come out in the divorce proceding, the information LE told Kaine about Terri being responsible for Kyron missing and the MFH plot and other possible information we are not privy to would likely make the judge deny visitation.

But nothing has changed since the decision to grant Kaine sole temporary custody, right? Kiara would still be possible at risk with Terri, the MFH accusations still stand. At best for TH, she may get some supervised visitation IMO. Wouldn't the court have to appoint someone in that case? Now I'm wildly speculating, WAY in advance, but remember Christian Gerhardtstre...something (his alias was Clark Rockefeller), who snatched his daughter during a supervised visit? I could see TH getting someone to help her pull this type of thing off.

This makes me think of Andrew Bagby and his son.  The courts in Canada ruled that Zachary's mother was only a threat to Andrew and that since she had killed Andrew she was no longer a threat to anyone.  She later killed herself and their son, Zachary. 

[Gypsy DD]

http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html

 

The hearing has ended. KATU will have more on this story at 4 p.m.

2:10: Judge's Reasoning: Proceeding would comprise Terri's 5th Amendment rights: “Some of these issues… may have changed significantly by then. The burden on Mr. Horman, while not insignificant, that’s still within the 8 months we normally try these cases.”

1:50: Judge delays ruling on the Horman divorce until January 6th.
1:45 p.m. Judge: “The court recognizes Mr. Horman finds himself in middle of any parent’s nightmare, any human’s worst nightmare, and that is true by just the fact than his son has disappeared, but to add to that worst nightmare is that police came to him in June and informed him they had probable cause, that in their view it was more likely than not that Ms. Horman was likely involved in Kyron’s disappearance and she had hired someone to kill him.”

BBM

That is a very profound statement that wraps up what we know to date.  Kaine and LE need to prove that..and the judge realizes Terri will not give up her 5th amend, rights by talking...
who does that in the case of divorce and custody of a little almost 2 year old girl..someone who is atleast guilty of part, if not all of what Kaine and his attorney speak to in the divorce and RO.  If she was totally innocent..this would have been a done deal long ago..this isn't just a he said she said..this is also LE said.

 

[strawberry thunder]

Whew! I finally got in! 

Hi Monkeys, my name is Jackie. I have been reading here for a loooooong time, and I must say you guys are quite the sleuthers! I love reading all the posts here and quite excited that I get to join in now! 

I have been following Kyron's case since the very beginning and my heart breaks for him. I would give anything to see this little guy brought home. As for where I stand on the Terri issue, I am a fence sitter. That is not to be confused with a Terri supporter. I am a Kyron supporter.

Anyway, I look forward to posting with all of you. Ty klaas for letting me in and ty Pam and Barb for helping me out! 

[cw618]

not sure maybe this is what kaine att. has in mind
to force everyones hands LE ect. and this guy just 
denied the allegations, now it has been picked up by the U.S. attorney
 im going to quit with the legal aspect to confusing for me

snip
Tattershall said she expects the Sacramento County investigation to conclude just as the federal investigation did, with no charges.

"It's my understanding it's the same allegations, and I basically anticipate that the exact same outcome will occur as with the U.S. attorney -- nothing will happen," she said.
http://www.kcra.com/r/24819759/detail.html

[Gypsy DD]

If she makes the visitation motion, then Kaine would have to have some reasons to try to have it denied. With the on going investigation who is going to say why ? The police ?
It's really a catch-22. They've never named her a POI a suspect or anything, it's Kaine who has had the microphone.
I can see supervised visitation with alot of condiitons. Unless something happens in the meantime. Kiara has to be the number one concern, but unless there are some compelling legal reasons where there is proof, how could it be denied ?
..
 I was surprised that a precise day for the 911 calls Dec 26 from HER lawyer in a DIVORCE case was asked for and denied. Her lawyer wouldn't ask for incriminating to Terri stuff would he ?

I think that LE's info resulting in the RO as well as the grounds for divorce will stand in court.  If Terri pleads the 5th and refusing to answer questions at the time of a custody hearing..well she ain't gonna get custody.  LE has spolen and Kaine used that in his plea to the court both for temporary custody and a divorce.  So unless Terri decides to speak I think the results will be the same. 

[Gypsy DD]

Whew! I finally got in! 

Hi Monkeys, my name is Jackie. I have been reading here for a loooooong time, and I must say you guys are quite the sleuthers! I love reading all the posts here and quite excited that I get to join in now! 

I have been following Kyron's case since the very beginning and my heart breaks for him. I would give anything to see this little guy brought home. As for where I stand on the Terri issue, I am a fence sitter. That is not to be confused with a Terri supporter. I am a Kyron supporter.

Anyway, I look forward to posting with all of you. Ty klaas for letting me in and ty Pam and Barb for helping me out! 

Welcome to the cage Strawberrythunder!  Glad you landed in a safe spot..grab a banana and some wine.  We're here for the long haul..and hoping it is short for Kyron's parents.

 

[cw618]

strawberry thunder  welcome
and your user name sounds like an adult beverage
cheers
 

[strawberry thunder]

Ty for the welcome! And ty for offering a banana instead of throwing one since I said I'm a fence sitter, LOL.

I' here for the long haul, too. I hope justice for Kyron comes soon and he is brought home. 

[strawberry thunder]

strawberry thunder  welcome
and your user name sounds like an adult beverage
cheers
 

It is, and it's quite tasty!

So, who makes the cool monkey avatars?

[fatcatlurker]

Welcome Strawberry Thunder! 

And I agree with the adult beverage...could use one right now and strawberry sounds real good!

[klaasend]

Welcome Strawberry! 

[Kat_Gram]

If she makes the visitation motion, then Kaine would have to have some reasons to try to have it denied. With the on going investigation who is going to say why ? The police ?
It's really a catch-22. They've never named her a POI a suspect or anything, it's Kaine who has had the microphone.
I can see supervised visitation with alot of condiitons. Unless something happens in the meantime. Kiara has to be the number one concern, but unless there are some compelling legal reasons where there is proof, how could it be denied ?
..
 I was surprised that a precise day for the 911 calls Dec 26 from HER lawyer in a DIVORCE case was asked for and denied. Her lawyer wouldn't ask for incriminating to Terri stuff would he ?

I think that LE's info resulting in the RO as well as the grounds for divorce will stand in court.  If Terri pleads the 5th and refusing to answer questions at the time of a custody hearing..well she ain't gonna get custody.  LE has spolen and Kaine used that in his plea to the court both for temporary custody and a divorce.  So unless Terri decides to speak I think the results will be the same. 

But all the MFH came from Rudy. When they tried the sting, she called 911.
They have a LS said, Terri is silent. If she was texting LS guy suggestively, that doesn't stop her from being a good Mommy. I know that you have an education in social work, but I am just thinking how many peeps get visitation and custody regardless of alot of things. And how many sad mistakes are made here.
..

[klaasend]

http://www.katu.com/news/local/104507829.html

 

Kaine Horman reacts to judge's decision

Kaine said he was not surprised at the judge’s decision, and he said he is somewhat relieved that he will have the next three months to concentrate on finding Kyron and spending time with the couple’s 2-year-old.

He said he wants Terri to start talking but he said her attorneys made it clear she won’t talk and won’t take the witness stand.

“If you have to get on the stand and plead the Fifth and you can’t tell what happened or didn’t happen – if you put the truth out there and it’s not incriminating, then why wouldn’t she say what happened?” Kaine said.

Terri Horman would not comment Thursday on any questions reporters asked her.

Kaine said it was not difficult sitting at the same table with Terri during the hearing. He said he just stayed focused on Kyron and Kiara and doesn’t have time to worry about what Terri is up to.

When asked if he would support a plea deal – if prosecutors offered Terri a deal to talk to them about what happened to Kyron -- Kaine said he would leave that up to the district attorney’s office and didn’t want to comment further.

Meanwhile, more searching by investigators is planned for this weekend on Sauvie Island. Several hundred people searched there last weekend. The Multnomah County Sheriff's Office said it has been acting on old information and not on new tips.

[seemeatthebeach]

Whew! I finally got in! 

Hi Monkeys, my name is Jackie. I have been reading here for a loooooong time, and I must say you guys are quite the sleuthers! I love reading all the posts here and quite excited that I get to join in now! 

I have been following Kyron's case since the very beginning and my heart breaks for him. I would give anything to see this little guy brought home. As for where I stand on the Terri issue, I am a fence sitter. That is not to be confused with a Terri supporter. I am a Kyron supporter.

Anyway, I look forward to posting with all of you. Ty klaas for letting me in and ty Pam and Barb for helping me out! 

Welcome Jackie!! Glad you made it into the cage!