Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 - 10/17/10

[Rob]

One other point from the respondent's memorandum.

IIRC - there was a part that included Terri's lawyer stating that Terri would take the 5th if called to the stand. First-off, that's her right. I know some don't like it when a child is missing, but it is her right. Just as it is her right to retain the counsel of her choice. It's everyone's right, unless you are John Gotti and Bruce Cutler takes the government apart three times in a row - then the government says that Cutler is a Counseliere, and the attorney of choice is removed.

Terri's attorney making it known that she will follow his advice dose not mean that she is complicit in a crime against Kyron, just that it is the government's job to PROVE their case and not Terri's responsibility to pin herself in a corner or convict herself with questions that she can not answer, may have no knowledge of the correct answers, or may be used a legal pawn.

I think deep down, everyone respects that.

[no rose colored glasses]

One other point from the respondent's memorandum.

IIRC - there was a part that included Terri's lawyer stating that Terri would take the 5th if called to the stand. First-off, that's her right. I know some don't like it when a child is missing, but it is her right. Just as it is her right to retain the counsel of her choice. It's everyone's right, unless you are John Gotti and Bruce Cutler takes the government apart three times in a row - then the government says that Cutler is a Counseliere, and the attorney of choice is removed.

Terri's attorney making it known that she will follow his advice dose not mean that she is complicit in a crime against Kyron, just that it is the government's job to PROVE their case and not Terri's responsibility to pin herself in a corner or convict herself with questions that she can not answer, may have no knowledge of the correct answers, or may be used a legal pawn.

I think deep down, everyone respects that.

I know that I respect that, respect the judicial system, and respect the right for a person to retain counsel and to listen to the attorney. Can't change the laws because people don't like how things are, these are all of our rights, and would never want to see them taken away.

[Itaryl Moosee]

Desi - FWIW, I agree with you

Me, too. fwiw

And on another topic... if TH got the 350K from selling or 'lending' Kyron -- wouldn't the funding of the retainer be VERY relevant?

It would be, but it's a divorce court, not a criminal one.

That's why Terri's lawyers are contending the request to disclose the source of the money... LE is letting Kaine do their dirty work by making Terri testify and maybe get information they can't get now that Terri has lawyered up.

If there was concrete proof that Terri did that, then they wouldn't need to know where the money was coming from, though Kaine may.

I mean, who has $350,000 laying around?

 

According to the memorandum to the court, the only way that the $350,000's source can be revealed would be if the judge decides it's a gift and can later on be

Itaryl Moose are you saying that even IF Terri got the money from selling Kyron to a Human Trafficking Ring that she does not have to reveal it? Are you a lawyer? Thanks, this is so hard to follow and understand.

I am not a lawyer, but I play one online.
 

She has to reveal nothing, because even if she is asked by the divorce court, she can always invoke her Fifth Ammendment.

In this case, the lawyers claimed in the memorandum passed around yesterday, that because the money was paid directly as the lawyer's retainer, that it is not marital property and at the end they argued that the only way that it could be taken into consideration would be if the judge deems it to be a "gift", and in that case she can shoosh her attorneys and debate whether any part of it was intended to benefit Kaine.

That aside, if a crime was committed (as you say) there is a moral obligation to reveal where and how she got that money... but, I don't think there is any legal obligation.

Admitting to it would be self-incrimination.

The divorce court handles divorces, and not criminal cases.

LE has to sit down with her and interrogate her, and that means inviting Mr. Houze to that meeting.

Again, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just spitting my opinion, based on ... watching Matlock.

A lot.

[Rob]

Desi - FWIW, I agree with you

Me, too. fwiw

And on another topic... if TH got the 350K from selling or 'lending' Kyron -- wouldn't the funding of the retainer be VERY relevant?

It would be, but it's a divorce court, not a criminal one.

That's why Terri's lawyers are contending the request to disclose the source of the money... LE is letting Kaine do their dirty work by making Terri testify and maybe get information they can't get now that Terri has lawyered up.

If there was concrete proof that Terri did that, then they wouldn't need to know where the money was coming from, though Kaine may.

I mean, who has $350,000 laying around?

 

According to the memorandum to the court, the only way that the $350,000's source can be revealed would be if the judge decides it's a gift and can later on be

Itaryl Moose are you saying that even IF Terri got the money from selling Kyron to a Human Trafficking Ring that she does not have to reveal it? Are you a lawyer? Thanks, this is so hard to follow and understand.

I am not a lawyer, but I play one online.
 

She has to reveal nothing, because even if she is asked by the divorce court, she can always invoke her Fifth Ammendment.

In this case, the lawyers claimed in the memorandum passed around yesterday, that because the money was paid directly as the lawyer's retainer, that it is not marital property and at the end they argued that the only way that it could be taken into consideration would be if the judge deems it to be a "gift", and in that case she can shoosh her attorneys and debate whether any part of it was intended to benefit Kaine.

That aside, if a crime was committed (as you say) there is a moral obligation to reveal where and how she got that money... but, I don't think there is any legal obligation.

Admitting to it would be self-incrimination.

The divorce court handles divorces, and not criminal cases.

LE has to sit down with her and interrogate her, and that means inviting Mr. Houze to that meeting.

Again, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just spitting my opinion, based on ... watching Matlock.

A lot.

I LIKE this post. A L O T 

Clever.

[mchenry]

Desi - FWIW, I agree with you

Me, too. fwiw

And on another topic... if TH got the 350K from selling or 'lending' Kyron -- wouldn't the funding of the retainer be VERY relevant?

It would be, but it's a divorce court, not a criminal one.

That's why Terri's lawyers are contending the request to disclose the source of the money... LE is letting Kaine do their dirty work by making Terri testify and maybe get information they can't get now that Terri has lawyered up.

If there was concrete proof that Terri did that, then they wouldn't need to know where the money was coming from, though Kaine may.

I mean, who has $350,000 laying around?

 

According to the memorandum to the court, the only way that the $350,000's source can be revealed would be if the judge decides it's a gift and can later on be

Itaryl Moose are you saying that even IF Terri got the money from selling Kyron to a Human Trafficking Ring that she does not have to reveal it? Are you a lawyer? Thanks, this is so hard to follow and understand.

I am not a lawyer, but I play one online.
 

She has to reveal nothing, because even if she is asked by the divorce court, she can always invoke her Fifth Ammendment.

In this case, the lawyers claimed in the memorandum passed around yesterday, that because the money was paid directly as the lawyer's retainer, that it is not marital property and at the end they argued that the only way that it could be taken into consideration would be if the judge deems it to be a "gift", and in that case she can shoosh her attorneys and debate whether any part of it was intended to benefit Kaine.

That aside, if a crime was committed (as you say) there is a moral obligation to reveal where and how she got that money... but, I don't think there is any legal obligation.

Admitting to it would be self-incrimination.

The divorce court handles divorces, and not criminal cases.

LE has to sit down with her and interrogate her, and that means inviting Mr. Houze to that meeting.

Again, I'm not a lawyer. I'm just spitting my opinion, based on ... watching Matlock.

A lot.

Itaryl moose, Thank you so much for your response. Now I finally understand why the Johnny Gosch kidnapping was never solved!

[sharon]

Desi - FWIW, I agree with you

Me, too. fwiw

And on another topic... if TH got the 350K from selling or 'lending' Kyron -- wouldn't the funding of the retainer be VERY relevant?

It would be, but it's a divorce court, not a criminal one.

That's why Terri's lawyers are contending the request to disclose the source of the money... LE is letting Kaine do their dirty work by making Terri testify and maybe get information they can't get now that Terri has lawyered up.

If there was concrete proof that Terri did that, then they wouldn't need to know where the money was coming from, though Kaine may.

I mean, who has $350,000 laying around?

 

According to the memorandum to the court, the only way that the $350,000's source can be revealed would be if the judge decides it's a gift and can later on be

Itaryl Moose are you saying that even IF Terri got the money from selling Kyron to a Human Trafficking Ring that she does not have to reveal it? Are you a lawyer? Thanks, this is so hard to follow and understand.

I have trouble understanding all the legal, too.

If Kaine wants to show that TH endangers his children -- as divorce grounds -- why wouldn't discovery about the 350k be relevant in the divorce case?

Endangerment would also apply for custody arguments -- one would think.

But I'm not a lawyer.

[sharon]

Thanks Itaryl.

Legal loopholes while our innocent children continue to disappear

[Rob]

Terri having two attorneys for TWO separate matters is smart.

The government is trying to co-mingle the two and make is one giant superball of a case.

The government is essentially saying - one caused the other. And should be tied together.

I don't think it can honestly be heard that way, but who knows.

The other interesting aspect would be - what if something occurred during the divorce case that tied to the criminal case - would the divorce court then become a criminal court. Me thinks not.

[Rob]

I guess if the government's case ( alleged case ) against Terri was strong, they wouldn't need a divorce court to move it along.

Nor would they need her to reveal something they are unaware of.

- j m o -

[no rose colored glasses]

Terri having two attorneys for TWO separate matters is smart.

The government is trying to co-mingle the two and make is one giant superball of a case.

The government is essentially saying - one caused the other. And should be tied together.

I don't think it can honestly be heard that way, but who knows.

The other interesting aspect would be - what if something occurred during the divorce case that tied to the criminal case - would the divorce court then become a criminal court. Me thinks not.

That is where my questions comes in, these are two separate cases, so during the divorce proceedings how could you possibly bring up child endangerment, since Terri took care of the children and Kaine was alright with her taking care of the kids? This is certainly a very unique divorce and am interested how this all turns out.

[Puzzler]

No Rose, I think that's when the mayor was trying to find out the identity of the man in Kyron's science project photo.

Can anyone succiently tell me what the mayor/tweet/plaid shirt man is all about?  I can't seem to get a handle on it.  Or maybe just tell me if the plaid shirt guy is one we should being interested in or not?  TIA

[klaasend]

Terri having two attorneys for TWO separate matters is smart.

The government is trying to co-mingle the two and make is one giant superball of a case.

The government is essentially saying - one caused the other. And should be tied together.

I don't think it can honestly be heard that way, but who knows.

The other interesting aspect would be - what if something occurred during the divorce case that tied to the criminal case - would the divorce court then become a criminal court. Me thinks not.

One absolutely did cause the other IMO

[Gypsy DD]

Desi - FWIW, I agree with you

Me, too. fwiw

And on another topic... if TH got the 350K from selling or 'lending' Kyron -- wouldn't the funding of the retainer be VERY relevant?

It would be, but it's a divorce court, not a criminal one.

That's why Terri's lawyers are contending the request to disclose the source of the money... LE is letting Kaine do their dirty work by making Terri testify and maybe get information they can't get now that Terri has lawyered up.

If there was concrete proof that Terri did that, then they wouldn't need to know where the money was coming from, though Kaine may.

I mean, who has $350,000 laying around?

 

According to the memorandum to the court, the only way that the $350,000's source can be revealed would be if the judge decides it's a gift and can later on be

If it is a gift or a loan..then she would owe the taxes on that money. 

[no rose colored glasses]

No Rose, I think that's when the mayor was trying to find out the identity of the man in Kyron's science project photo.

Can anyone succiently tell me what the mayor/tweet/plaid shirt man is all about?  I can't seem to get a handle on it.  Or maybe just tell me if the plaid shirt guy is one we should being interested in or not?  TIA

I sure would like to know, but I thought the plaid shirt guy was not a suspect, was he not just a father at the fair?

[Itaryl Moosee]

Sorry, Monkeys. I don't want to sound insensitive or anything, with Kyron still missing and the case resolution resting on Terri coming clean with what she knows.

But, the laws are the laws, and most times they seem to help the wrong person.

[no rose colored glasses]

Sorry, Monkeys. I don't want to sound insensitive or anything, with Kyron still missing and the case resolution resting on Terri coming clean with what she knows.

But, the laws are the laws, and most times they seem to help the wrong person.

I totally agree, and yes at times it appears that the laws do help the wrong person, but I still don't want to see our laws and rights trampled on. I can get angry at times when I see how things work out in a court of law, but when the judge or jury has spoken, so be it.

[mchenry]

Sorry, Monkeys. I don't want to sound insensitive or anything, with Kyron still missing and the case resolution resting on Terri coming clean with what she knows.

But, the laws are the laws, and most times they seem to help the wrong person.

Itaryl Moose, I understand but it saddens me when a criminal has more rights than our precious children.

[hellokitty]

 

I think with these discussions on here about the divorce, it has been made abundantly clear by everyone that Terri has something to hide that is criminal.  And it's not shoplifting. 

[Rob]

Terri having two attorneys for TWO separate matters is smart.

The government is trying to co-mingle the two and make is one giant superball of a case.

The government is essentially saying - one caused the other. And should be tied together.

I don't think it can honestly be heard that way, but who knows.

The other interesting aspect would be - what if something occurred during the divorce case that tied to the criminal case - would the divorce court then become a criminal court. Me thinks not.

One absolutely did cause the other IMO

I concur. However, what evidence cause the MFH investigation / sting. That would need to be revealed and COULD PLACE the government is a compromising situation. There were no arrests, and Terri call the police. It's tricky.

If the government has to admit they had no evidence, or evidence to the contrary and took the word of an "illegal" alien, or it is revealed that RS has harassed Terri - that case goes out the window along with all their credibility.

It's a dangerous legal situation - in my opinion.

If there is truly evidence in the MFH plot - the police may have acted inappropriately in NOT arresting her, charging her, and trying her.

If they had any of that - they would have moved on an arrest - not a sting.

in my opinion. 

[hellokitty]

 

re the MFH.  I had a neighbor who did that.  The guy who was asked to do the deed went to LE .  LE wired him and they got the goods on my neighbor.  Until that point, all it was was an interesting story to LE.  Same with TH.  No goods on her; consequently no arrest.

Of course Kaine wants to know where the $350,000 came from.  He said that she was spending money like water.  What if she was stashing money over the years and it in fact is partially his.  I would want my $175,000 back.  No, I would not want to gift it to her.

If Terri has done nothing, what's the big deal about incriminating herself?  Obviously, she has something that she has done that is incriminating and criminal.