Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #33 10/07/10 - 10/17/10

[Deenie]

I need Lazydog or Neighbor to explain -

But from what I see within the aerial maps Klaas posted - of the Landfill and surrounding areas.

The area of 2 is water or presumably water - which could be part of the landfill and or part of the Water system - Water refinery ..unless Portland has under ground water systems

" Pipes Under ground/ and connects far reaching " that one source connects to the Sauvie residents  " drinking/tap/water" - same system that is of Portland.

 

[hellokitty]

 

Deenie, it's good to have a landfill worker on here.

Our landfill is capped here because of groundwater issues.  Our landfill does accept recycling and there are guys everywhere looking at what you have.  There are cameras everywhere also.

You have to enter through a gate with a guard.

I think that landfill on Sauvie is industrial only.  Sickening that they can have one so close to water. 

I don't know about industrial landfills, but I imagine that they are locked down tighter than a drum.  I bet your average citizen can't get anywhere near it.

[Lazydog1]

Monkey King,

Has it ever been confirmed that anyone has ever done a grid search or SAR on the Horman Property?

I would think it would be of first priority -to search the Horman Property. Thinking of little Caylee, the SAR units combed 1/2 of Orange County +

They searched the areas that were able to be searched. The other areas were tagged yet not able to be gone into with SAR. Areas that were under water and would be dangerous for both volunteers and " Caylee's remains" .. Tim Miller had to draw a line somewhere. His " bottom line" was to find Caylee, yet to protect his service people " volunteers" ..

Caylee eventually to be found December 11th 2008 - less than a mile from home - Which was under water and not able to be searched by Tim Miller, at that time.  He was thrown out by the Anthony Family when he got too close to finding Caylee .. which lead him to cease his operation.   

Yet all in all, Caylee was practically in her own backyard so to speak - for over 6 mos.

Has it ever been said that LE or Other Agency has done a complete " Grid search" of the Horman property or adjacent properties?

A reliable source I know personally assured me that the whole are including the Horman property had been searched two times with SAR Dogs. I believe them totally.

[Scandi]

I received this via email from someone very familiar with the law in Oregon.  I don't personally claim to know anything about the laws in Oregon so keep that in mind if you have questions:

During a criminal investigation, the accused may have to reveal the source of funding for their defense, such as in the prosecution of Casey Anthony.  Generally, however, it's not a discoverable issue in most criminal cases.  During a dissolution of marriage case, ALL financials MUST be disclosed to the other party.  ALL of them.  Anyone who has ever divorced can attest to this simple fact.

Agreed, however the Horman case is kinda special because it involves BOTH, the criminal case and the divorce.

Bunch is citing cases and pleading for his client, but it is up to the judge to decide if he accepts the arguments or not.

Apparently the judge understood that speaking about the matters related to the divorce can violate her Fifth amendment right.

Maybe since the money was paid to the attorney on Terri's behalf, and Terri actually didn't get the money, that it may be regarded differently. We'll see what the judge decides.

I am no lawyer, but I'm speaking based on past experience (regarding divorce.)

 

Plus, you watch too much Matlock!   

Hi Nana,  LOL,  Yes, Matlock made many of us the Sleuthers we are today, eh?  Such a jewel and I'm hope he is doing well in his elder years.  And then there was Perry Mason, dating me, but who cares when the writing was that good ;}

And then I remember the President {?} of Portugal during Madeleine's case was a devout reader of Sherlock Holmes ala Arthur Conan Doyle, and read everything he had written over and over again.  It is all so good for us as we hopefully follow in their footsteps.  They were all created from a real and well studied minds.   xox

 

[Puzzler]

I received this via email from someone very familiar with the law in Oregon.  I don't personally claim to know anything about the laws in Oregon so keep that in mind if you have questions:

During a criminal investigation, the accused may have to reveal the source of funding for their defense, such as in the prosecution of Casey Anthony.  Generally, however, it's not a discoverable issue in most criminal cases.  During a dissolution of marriage case, ALL financials MUST be disclosed to the other party.  ALL of them.  Anyone who has ever divorced can attest to this simple fact.

Agreed, however the Horman case is kinda special because it involves BOTH, the criminal case and the divorce.

Bunch is citing cases and pleading for his client, but it is up to the judge to decide if he accepts the arguments or not.

Apparently the judge understood that speaking about the matters related to the divorce can violate her Fifth amendment right.

Maybe since the money was paid to the attorney on Terri's behalf, and Terri actually didn't get the money, that it may be regarded differently. We'll see what the judge decides.

I am no lawyer, but I'm speaking based on past experience (regarding divorce.)

 

Plus, you watch too much Matlock!   

Hi Nana,  LOL,  Yes, Matlock made many of us the Sleuthers we are today, eh?  Such a jewel and I'm hope he is doing well in his elder years.  And then there was Perry Mason, dating me, but who cares when the writing was that good ;}

And then I remember the President {?} of Portugal during Madeleine's case was a devout reader of Sherlock Holmes ala Arthur Conan Doyle, and read everything he had written over and over again.  It is all so good for us as we hopefully follow in their footsteps.  They were all created from a real and well studied minds.   xox

 

For me, personally: Perry Mason and Jessica Fletcher (Murder, She Wrote)

[Lazydog1]

I need Lazydog or Neighbor to explain -

But from what I see within the aerial maps Klaas posted - of the Landfill and surrounding areas.

The area of 2 is water or presumably water - which could be part of the landfill and or part of the Water system - Water refinery ..unless Portland has under ground water systems

" Pipes Under ground/ and connects far reaching " that one source connects to the Sauvie residents  " drinking/tap/water" - same system that is of Portland.

 

Sorry Deenie I have knowledge of that landfill. It is possible it might have been a piece of property that was owned and used as a landfill or dumping grounds. Started when they had no respect for the land itself or the neighbors who lived on the Island. Things have drastically changed.

[Lazydog1]

Sorry Deenie meant to say

I have NO knowledge of the landfill.

[hellokitty]

 

Lazydog, i don't understand your post about the landfill.

Have you seen it?  Would it be difficult to get in to?  Is it still an operating landfill?

[Deenie]

I need Lazydog or Neighbor to explain -

But from what I see within the aerial maps Klaas posted - of the Landfill and surrounding areas.

The area of 2 is water or presumably water - which could be part of the landfill and or part of the Water system - Water refinery ..unless Portland has under ground water systems

" Pipes Under ground/ and connects far reaching " that one source connects to the Sauvie residents  " drinking/tap/water" - same system that is of Portland.

 

Sorry Deenie I have knowledge of that landfill. It is possible it might have been a piece of property that was owned and used as a landfill or dumping grounds. Started when they had no respect for the land itself or the neighbors who lived on the Island. Things have drastically changed.

Hi Lazydog, I was so hoping you would come online. Does ESCO Corp to your knowledge ring a bell with you as far as Waste Stream or Refuse, Garbage Pickup in your local area ?  Have you ever seen dumpsters in your area with ESCO on them ? Commercial refuse haulers?

Thank You so much for any answers you can provide.

[hellokitty]

 

Lazydog, we must have been writing at the same time.

I don't think the landfill would be easy to access.

[Lazydog1]

I need Lazydog or Neighbor to explain -

But from what I see within the aerial maps Klaas posted - of the Landfill and surrounding areas.

The area of 2 is water or presumably water - which could be part of the landfill and or part of the Water system - Water refinery ..unless Portland has under ground water systems

" Pipes Under ground/ and connects far reaching " that one source connects to the Sauvie residents  " drinking/tap/water" - same system that is of Portland.

 

Sorry Deenie I have knowledge of that landfill. It is possible it might have been a piece of property that was owned and used as a landfill or dumping grounds. Started when they had no respect for the land itself or the neighbors who lived on the Island. Things have drastically changed.

Hi Lazydog, I was so hoping you would come online. Does ESCO Corp to your knowledge ring a bell with you as far as Waste Stream or Refuse, Garbage Pickup in your local area ?  Have you ever seen dumpsters in your area with ESCO on them ? Commercial refuse haulers?

Thank You so much for any answers you can provide.

No they don't pickup garbage. The waste they dump is from their own steel products. They are no refuse haulers. It is a private landfill that they have used over the years.

Sorry I can't help more on that. Wish I could.

http://www.escocorp.com/markets/products.html

    

 

ESCO Products

Through its Engineered Products and Turbine Technologies groups, ESCO is a global leader in the design, manufacturing and distribution of superior product for mining, construction, power generation and aerospace applications.

For mining and construction applications, ESCO produces field-proven ground engaging tools, buckets, blades, end bits, couplers, wearparts, ripper systems, shanks, lip systems, dozer packages, liner packages, shrouds and structural components.

For aerospace and power generation, ESCO produces the entire line of hot gas path (HGP) components – including directionally solidified (DS), single crystal (SC) and equiaxed blades, nozzles, vanes and structural castings – as well as such post-cast processes as machining, grinding and stem drilling.

ESCO dredging cutterheads, teeth and components are used throughout the world. ESCO rigging products include rigging hardware, components, swagers, swage fitting, dies and spelter sockets. ESCO recycling products include hammers, shredder hammer assemblies, grates, rotor caps, liners and other key components. ESCO conveying products include long link sprockets, drums, chains, flights, drag chain sprockets, traction wheels, engineered chain, mill chain and chain attachments. ESCO forestry products include grapple and bunching heads, dual function booms, single function booms, snubbers, sorting heads and swing booms. ESCO also provides armor plating for military and commercial applications.

 
Mining

   
Highway and
Heavy Construction
   
Utilities and General Construction
   
Universal Wear
Solutions
   Crushing

   Dredging

Mining
   
Highway and Heavy Construction
   
Utilities and General Construction
   
Universal Wear Solutions
   Crushing    Dredging
               
Rigging

   Conveying and Wood Yard Products
   Recycling

   Other Industrial Applications    Aerospeace and Defense     Power Generation

Rigging    Conveying and Wood Yard Products    Recycling    Other Industrial Applications    Aerospace & Defence    Power Generation
            

[Monkey King]

Monkey King,

Has it ever been confirmed that anyone has ever done a grid search or SAR on the Horman Property?

I would think it would be of first priority -to search the Horman Property. Thinking of little Caylee, the SAR units combed 1/2 of Orange County +

They searched the areas that were able to be searched. The other areas were tagged yet not able to be gone into with SAR. Areas that were under water and would be dangerous for both volunteers and " Caylee's remains" .. Tim Miller had to draw a line somewhere. His " bottom line" was to find Caylee, yet to protect his service people " volunteers" ..

Caylee eventually to be found December 11th 2008 - less than a mile from home - Which was under water and not able to be searched by Tim Miller, at that time.  He was thrown out by the Anthony Family when he got too close to finding Caylee .. which lead him to cease his operation.   

Yet all in all, Caylee was practically in her own backyard so to speak - for over 6 mos.

Has it ever been said that LE or Other Agency has done a complete " Grid search" of the Horman property or adjacent properties?

A reliable source I know personally assured me that the whole are including the Horman property had been searched two times with SAR Dogs. I believe them totally.

Hey LD!

Thanks for answering!

I wonder, do you know if it was done as a grid search?

[klaasend]

Monkey King,

Has it ever been confirmed that anyone has ever done a grid search or SAR on the Horman Property?

I would think it would be of first priority -to search the Horman Property. Thinking of little Caylee, the SAR units combed 1/2 of Orange County +

They searched the areas that were able to be searched. The other areas were tagged yet not able to be gone into with SAR. Areas that were under water and would be dangerous for both volunteers and " Caylee's remains" .. Tim Miller had to draw a line somewhere. His " bottom line" was to find Caylee, yet to protect his service people " volunteers" ..

Caylee eventually to be found December 11th 2008 - less than a mile from home - Which was under water and not able to be searched by Tim Miller, at that time.  He was thrown out by the Anthony Family when he got too close to finding Caylee .. which lead him to cease his operation.   

Yet all in all, Caylee was practically in her own backyard so to speak - for over 6 mos.

Has it ever been said that LE or Other Agency has done a complete " Grid search" of the Horman property or adjacent properties?

A reliable source I know personally assured me that the whole are including the Horman property had been searched two times with SAR Dogs. I believe them totally.

Hey LD!

Thanks for answering!

I wonder, do you know if it was done as a grid search?

Being that the current searches on Sauvie are being done as grid searches I would suspect it is standard operating procedure.  No reason to think it wasn't done that way. 

[Deenie]

Deenie, it's good to have a landfill worker on here.

Our landfill is capped here because of groundwater issues.  Our landfill does accept recycling and there are guys everywhere looking at what you have.  There are cameras everywhere also.

You have to enter through a gate with a guard.

I think that landfill on Sauvie is industrial only.  Sickening that they can have one so close to water. 

I don't know about industrial landfills, but I imagine that they are locked down tighter than a drum.  I bet your average citizen can't get anywhere near it.

Hello Kitty,
Thank you for your reply. The landfill that I worked for - parts of it were capped while I was employed and then they opened up a new area too - and it was a political rampage within the " They" of who represented the township. Very Ugly.  Very political. You would have to know the area - for there is not much around. Not many houses within or much of anything - Yet the Township was dead set against the new land to be considered Landfill.  It was at first a huge ordeal, but the property that is connected to that " new area of landfill" - is the cemetery that my Great Grandparents, and beloved Grandparents are both buried at. And that land is sacred - it has graves marked in the late 1800's. It has Civil War graves as well.   
For the landfill to utilize the land - once its capped it is forever - Maintenance. Forever Monitored. So after it all came down, it was agreed - The real war was nothing about the land though - It was of Money. That the Township was to be paid a certain percentage of earnings from the landfill's daily intake.  I can't even tell you, Kitty we took in over 1 million a day - I know I was one that ran the tickets - 60 percent profit.  Garbage is Forever. Yet it requires to be disposed of in the right way, and it requires standards over and above what " is required"  - otherwise we would all be " dead fish" by now. And I know too that the " Guys + plus one incredible Female Engineer LORI /and a DNR Specialist Terri " that worked for BFI at this landfill - It would be their conscience, eaten alive, if they did not provide 3 times the expected. Very tight group.  Amazing group of highly educated people who cared for the environment/ and this land specifically.

 BFI prided itself on triple the standard of what was classified as " necessary". BFI is of no longer. It was the 2nd largest waste stream system in the world. Was of Class II Landfills - took everything but Medical Waste. Waste Management ( many know it as Green/yellow/white emblem of WM)  holds all Ranks today, they have always been #1, for they Take Medical Waste and own and operate the biggest landfills / majority of landfills - and own *subsidiary companies as haulers. * yet You would never know. Waste Management is everywhere.

Again is why this Esco Corp site is bothersome to me - because they do not offer anything of Waste Stream/Landfills/etc - Nothing. Zippo - for me to find ESCO on the Oregon EPA etc is like ??? - this is why I think they are no longer owner or operator of the Sauvie Island Landfill.

If it is known it would be known - its nothing to hide from - for it is a service that is necessary and contracted to by city/county/state - its big business - and WE pay taxes for this service - Its so political its sick. Garbage is always centered on politics first - stories I could tell.   

The Blue Drums of the post that mentioned Kyron is how this all came up. And when I think of metal drums within the Sauvie Island - it makes me think of garbage receptacles.

Which then led me to Waste pick up, to then to find that the Sauvie has a landfill. 

  A drum would not sink or be able to sink without a tremendous amount of weight holding it down, any leak of air would make it float back up to the surface and be known.

 It would be detected by equipment I would think within the waterways - of the island.   
For it would be not settled but sitting at the bottom - Oh I don't know. I don't want to think of Kyron at the bottom of anything.  Too much for my brain.

I want him found ~ whole
My brain can't go there of anything else

[hellokitty]

 

Thanks for the garbage update.  I know a lot about garbage and it is not pretty. 

Another person gave me the idea that the drum could be drilled with holes and then it would sink.

[Monkey King]

Thanks for the garbage update.  I know a lot about garbage and it is not pretty. 

Another person gave me the idea that the drum could be drilled with holes and then it would sink.

You could probably make it holes in it with the claw of a hammer and not need a drill. 

[pfaubush]

Yes, we have proof that if you punch a lot of holes in something, it will sink (ie. TH's story).

[Deenie]

Thanks for the garbage update.  I know a lot about garbage and it is not pretty. 

Another person gave me the idea that the drum could be drilled with holes and then it would sink.

Thats so crazy HelloKitty, I watched on the " Food Channel " Saturday - on how to drill holes into a metal garbage can - to make your own personal " Smoker barbecue with a Trash can" It was an actual food challenge - food war with one winner. So it would not shock me if someone was able to do so with a oil drum.  " Drill holes"

 

[Deenie]

I think I feel as I did the other night, Friday that something has changed within Kyron's " investigation" and it was just of recent. I have no offerings to say why I feel this. I never hold back anything here.

 But I have a gut feeling this is really bad - and I don't feel I can handle it. So I am going to leave Kyron's cage again. I can't explain. I am not hiding anything. I don't like what I feel - that is enough, right now.

Kyron our little Frog boy ~ You are So Loved ~

Your Momma Desiree is in my thoughts with you.  She is the centerpiece I feel of Kyron's heart. There is a unknown love/deep connection between a Mother to her baby boy, and Kyron was her first baby boy.  And I know Desiree is hurting more than any of us could ever realize - For she is Kyron's Momma. 

Music of David Sides - Pianist - Sailing - thinking of Kyron - his love for the ocean and his Whimsy that he carries -  that he is just that " a frog catcher, a boy finding dirt his friend, a silly, a energy filled little one - that felt everything and everyone around him would protect him. A beautiful honest child.
 
For Desiree to continue the dreams of Kyron ~ the little boy that lives inside her heart. 

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/aVKm1K-Z-Fo?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;rel=0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/aVKm1K-Z-Fo?fs=1&amp;amp;hl=en_US&amp;amp;rel=0</a>

I will be back soon enough in Kyron's cage.  But things seemed to have shifted in the last few days - again I don't know what, its just a gut feeling. I thought previous that something was not right, now its even worse, I just can't put my finger on it. 

 

[Monkey King]