Kyron Horman, 7 years old PORTLAND, OR #34 10/17/10 - 11/11/10

[Tracygirl]

Kyron is on my mind so heavily today. It appears that Zahra is going to be found, thank god! I just want this little one found as well. I would have never believed 5 months later he would still be lost.
Perhaps those that pray can post a prayer for Kyron.

Dear God,
Today my heart is very heavy with pain and worry for Kyron. I look at his picture taken just hours before he went missing and I see a child who looked forward to his day. He had no idea of what was coming and that he would be gone for so long.
Please father protect Kyron, surround him with your heavenly light and shield him from all evil.
Please protect the hearts of Kyrons mother and father during the search for their son. Please give them the strength they need to go on for another day.
Please enter the hearts of those responsible and prompt them to come forward with all they know.
Father, you have the power to bring this to end. Please I beg of you to please allow this child to be found.
In your loving name I pray, Amen

This is a beautiful prayer! Thanks TG. May I have your permission to put it on the wall of hope next week? You can email me with your answer! 

I suppose it is ok...

I won't do it if you're not sure TG. I don't like putting things there without asking first! You don't seem very sure to me. I don't want to put you on the spot. 

Well it is not that I am opposed to having it on the wall. I didn't really write it for that purpose. If you feel people will find comfort from it, then please feel free to include it. Thank you for the offer.

[hellokitty]

 

LE told us that they were no longer going to say where they have been searching so that people will cooperate and allow them to search.

The honesty with any of this will come out in court.

Except for curiosity, what difference could it make to the case if people on the internet know what LE has been doing?

If anyone has a legitimate tip, call LE up.

Otherwise, why do we need to know what they have been up to?

I am sure that Kyron's parents are on it with LE.

[Grey]

LE told us that they were no longer going to say where they have been searching so that people will cooperate and allow them to search.

The honesty with any of this will come out in court.

Except for curiosity, what difference could it make to the case if people on the internet know what LE has been doing?

If anyone has a legitimate tip, call LE up.

Otherwise, why do we need to know what they have been up to?

I am sure that Kyron's parents are on it with LE.

 

[MuffyBee]

I think there's some confusion with the term transparency in relation to this case.  Kyron's case is an active investigation and I don't think that there would be any good to come from LE giving out information as to who has been cleared, where they have searched and etc.  The release of information could let those that are involved know too much.  It's better to keep them guessing.   Where "transparency" might become an issue is after the case is made, arrests made and it goes to trial.  Then the time comes for transparency.  I realize it's frustrating because we don't really know what's going on in this case, but that tells me that those that may be responsible for Kyron's disappearance don't know much either.  I don't think LE owes us an explanation to some of these things at this point.  Sometimes there have been cases where LE has bungled, but I've also seen many, many other cases where there was an active investigation but not much info released at the time, and some thought nothing was being done only to find out LE was doing their job all along.  It's not enough to have a suspicion, LE has to have enough not only to make an arrest but also to make it stick:  a conviction.  There may be enough for some arrests to be made, but I think sometimes LE doesn't arrest because they are waiting for developments or there may be a bigger picture.  JMHO 

[Grey]

Thanks, MuffyBee.
 

[Monkey King]

Ask for some media and you may get it ... keep the faith Monkeys!

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Dateline-to-air-new-Kyron-Horman-program-106785808.html

'Dateline' to air new Kyron Horman program

PORTLAND, Ore. -- A new Dateline NBC will explore the latest developments in the Kyron Horman case.

The show airs November 11 and will feature interviews with parents and kids from Skyline Elementary , where the 7-year-old was last seen on June 4.

Reporters will also interview a friend of Kyron's step-mom Terri Moulton-Horman. The largest missing person search in Oregon's history has so far turned up no suspects.

Kyron's father and Terri Horman have a divorce hearing set for January. The Multnomah County Sheriff's Office is setting up a task force on the case.

Complete Coverage: Search for Kyron Horman

 

I didn't know they lifted the GAG ORDER

[hellokitty]

 

I read somewhere that they are just interviewing children with their impressions of Kyron.

The kids won't be talking as witnesses to a crime.

[Claycat]

Good Evening, Monkeys.

TG, I agree with you about the lack of transparency in this case and it will NEVER be OK with me to just drop this.

 

But The biggest problem I have with this is:  it doesn't matter if LE searched or not, because the performance record of their findings (or lack thereof) -- even when a body is PRESENT and decomposing, is abysmal --.


I do know this:  He Who Will Not Be Named searched the school.  If Kyron had died at the school, his dogs would know and he would have reported it.  I'm pretty certain because of his search of the school, (it is public property so he could search there), Kyron was alive when he left the school. 

A death scent lingers for up to a year.

He also searched all public areas in the surrounding area.  The only death alert in that area is coming from the Horman's property.  (The wind has carried the scent to He Who Will Not Be Named on 3, possibly 4 separate occasions.) LE HAS searched the Horman's residence as well, numerous times.  But this means nothing.  The same dog handlers that missed Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis in Oregon City were "on it".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/

So.... TG, you can sleep better knowing Kyron didn't end up in a dumpster on school grounds.


The question remains, though, who died or is dead on on KH's property Shady Nook?
 

TY, Kokos Cat!  I want to know who is dead on that property, too!

[Claycat]

Good Evening, Monkeys.

TG, I agree with you about the lack of transparency in this case and it will NEVER be OK with me to just drop this.

 

But The biggest problem I have with this is:  it doesn't matter if LE searched or not, because the performance record of their findings (or lack thereof) -- even when a body is PRESENT and decomposing, is abysmal --.


I do know this:  He Who Will Not Be Named searched the school.  If Kyron had died at the school, his dogs would know and he would have reported it.  I'm pretty certain because of his search of the school, (it is public property so he could search there), Kyron was alive when he left the school. 

A death scent lingers for up to a year.

He also searched all public areas in the surrounding area.  The only death alert in that area is coming from the Horman's property.  (The wind has carried the scent to He Who Will Not Be Named on 3, possibly 4 separate occasions.) LE HAS searched the Horman's residence as well, numerous times.  But this means nothing.  The same dog handlers that missed Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis in Oregon City were "on it".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/

So.... TG, you can sleep better knowing Kyron didn't end up in a dumpster on school grounds.


The question remains, though, who died or is dead on on KH's property Shady Nook?
 

My father worked on that case (Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis in Oregon City) and on many others including capturing Oregon's worst serial killer to date Dayton Leroy Rodgers. That was Clackamus County  LE and Kyron's case is Multnomah County LE although I know CC is helping.

You don't know anything more than what media feeds you (or H.O.) and I guarantee it isn't that much. LE changes policy and improve technics with case's failures and try to build on success's. Technology and training alone have changed tremendously in the last 7 years since Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis in Oregon City, so who knows what discovery they have collected, found out, searched, etc.

My guess is LE doesn't feel like they need to show their hand to anyone. We won't know if that's for the good of the case or if the case has gone stone cold until they are ready to tell us. Personally after watching this my whole life I am not going to wear myself out on pointing blame or negligence just yet.

BTW It took 2 years to catch Rogers. They NEVER gave up. You just didn't know about it.

They built a case so airtight the only place you will find Rogers now is on Oregon's death row.

Weaver received two life sentences after pleading guilty to avoid the death penalty.

I'm sure LE worked very hard on that case.  The problem was with the K9s not picking up the scent.  Sassifrass is local to that area, and she attests that the discovery by the dog person was true and that LE was told that dogs were alerting on decomposition.  She said it was several months before LE followed up on it and found the bodies.  It was an unfortunate situation, because the bodies could have been found so much sooner. 

I have family in LE, too, and it is not unheard of for them to make mistakes.  It happens.

I'm sure your father is a fine officer. 

[Grey]

I read somewhere that they are just interviewing children with their impressions of Kyron.

The kids won't be talking as witnesses to a crime.

I did not realize there is a universal gag order. The GJ, yes. The media to keep away from the GJ and witnesses, yes. But everyone else, no.

I think everyone else has been asked not to discuss the case with the media, and they have complied. Legally, though, I think they can chat away all they want.

Of course, look at a few who have been chatty. JW chatted and his 15 minutes of fame turned against him. DS chatted directly with the media and through "cousin" and "friend", and she is losing ground with "yeah, uh-huh" reactions. There was a WTH reaction to the grandmother who let her grandchild speak with the media.

Though there is a lack of news coverage, there is also a lack of a constant stream of uninformed opinions and speculation from the man on the street or "close friends". Also lacking are leaks from "sources close to the investigation" with LE and the DA. Refreshing.

Hopefully Dateline will focus on Kyron as a person. As far as developments in the case, I doubt they will have anything new; just a timeline of what has happened to date. Children talking about Kyron would be nice.

[Tracygirl]

BTW, if 500 people came on line and posted their disagreement with my opinion, all that really means to me is 500 people disagree with me. Doesn't change my mind or what I feel is important.

Kyron needs to be found. Whatever it takes, whatever questions need to be asked, where ever pressure needs to be placed, Kyron needs to be found. Nothing else should matter.

LE needs to spill it and provide details on what has been done to date to find Kyron? How involved has the search been into finding a non living Kyron as well as a living Kyron? Who is actively working on this case such as agencies within this task force? What are some of the future plans LE is planning in order to find Kyron? These things can be said without compromising the investigation. I don't like the fact there hasn't been a presser from LE in weeks. Doesn't look right to me. 5 month later, still no Kyron...Terri looks guilty as hell but still no Kyron. Where are you little frog man? You need to be found. 

[Tracygirl]

In my opinion, there are a few parts to this investigation as well as other missing person investigations..
In order of importance,
1. Find the missing person
2. Figure out who is responsible (if appropriate)
3. Justice (if appropriate)

In my opinion, finding the person is #1 and should never stop being #1. I cannot imagine anyone on this board feeling it is appropriate for Kyron to not  be found and the search for him to ever stop. If that is what you believe and is your message then there is no point in debating this because I so strongly disagree with you I cannot even participate in the discussion. 

As my sweet youngest son still says, time to go nite-nite. This has been a long, long day and I am ready for it to be over. Good night everyone.
Lets hope and pray tomorrow is the day Kyron will be found. 

[Grey]

In my opinion, there are a few parts to this investigation as well as other missing person investigations..
In order of importance,
1. Find the missing person
2. Figure out who is responsible (if appropriate)
3. Justice (if appropriate)

In my opinion, finding the person is #1 and should never stop being #1. I cannot imagine anyone on this board feeling it is appropriate for Kyron to not  be found and the search for him to ever stop. If that is what you believe and is your message then there is no point in debating this because I so strongly disagree with you I cannot even participate in the discussion. 

As my sweet youngest son still says, time to go nite-nite. This has been a long, long day and I am ready for it to be over. Good night everyone.
Lets hope and pray tomorrow is the day Kyron will be found. 

With whom are you disagreeing? Everyone here wants Kyron found. The only problem with searches is LE's needing viable leads about where to search. They have searched the more likely areas, and we are aware that the have continued with searches. Some searches we do not hear about.

I do not understand your problem with the searches except with not knowing the details, especially those entailing dumpsters. It is a criminal investigation, and LE does not need to broadcast any details on any subject about the investigation. It is not unusual for LE not to release information on an investigation to the public or even to family members of a victim. You may think it is important for you to have the details, but LE does not. Have all the opinions you wish.

You will find out all you need to  know if and when there is a court case, though that could possibly be years from now. LE would like this case solved and prosecuted as soon as possible, but no one is handing them the information and evidence they need on a silver platter. It will take as long as it takes.

[tnmomb]

Good Evening, Monkeys.

TG, I agree with you about the lack of transparency in this case and it will NEVER be OK with me to just drop this.

 

But The biggest problem I have with this is:  it doesn't matter if LE searched or not, because the performance record of their findings (or lack thereof) -- even when a body is PRESENT and decomposing, is abysmal --.


I do know this:  He Who Will Not Be Named searched the school.  If Kyron had died at the school, his dogs would know and he would have reported it.  I'm pretty certain because of his search of the school, (it is public property so he could search there), Kyron was alive when he left the school. 

A death scent lingers for up to a year.

He also searched all public areas in the surrounding area.  The only death alert in that area is coming from the Horman's property.  (The wind has carried the scent to He Who Will Not Be Named on 3, possibly 4 separate occasions.) LE HAS searched the Horman's residence as well, numerous times.  But this means nothing.  The same dog handlers that missed Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis in Oregon City were "on it".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/

So.... TG, you can sleep better knowing Kyron didn't end up in a dumpster on school grounds.


The question remains, though, who died or is dead on on KH's property Shady Nook?
 

My father worked on that case (Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis in Oregon City) and on many others including capturing Oregon's worst serial killer to date Dayton Leroy Rodgers. That was Clackamus County  LE and Kyron's case is Multnomah County LE although I know CC is helping.

You don't know anything more than what media feeds you (or H.O.) and I guarantee it isn't that much. LE changes policy and improve technics with case's failures and try to build on success's. Technology and training alone have changed tremendously in the last 7 years since Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis in Oregon City, so who knows what discovery they have collected, found out, searched, etc.

My guess is LE doesn't feel like they need to show their hand to anyone. We won't know if that's for the good of the case or if the case has gone stone cold until they are ready to tell us. Personally after watching this my whole life I am not going to wear myself out on pointing blame or negligence just yet.

BTW It took 2 years to catch Rogers. They NEVER gave up. You just didn't know about it.

They built a case so airtight the only place you will find Rogers now is on Oregon's death row.

Weaver received two life sentences after pleading guilty to avoid the death penalty.

I'm sure LE worked very hard on that case.  The problem was with the K9s not picking up the scent.  Sassifrass is local to that area, and she attests that the discovery by the dog person was true and that LE was told that dogs were alerting on decomposition.  She said it was several months before LE followed up on it and found the bodies.  It was an unfortunate situation, because the bodies could have been found so much sooner. 

I have family in LE, too, and it is not unheard of for them to make mistakes.  It happens.

I'm sure your father is a fine officer. 

Thank you. He died in January.
He was a great detective and Sheriff. He served for over 40 years. He was also a Mason. He changed a lot of policies and brought in state of the art training. One of the Sheriff's at his funeral said "His greatest gift was the ability to see and then improve on just about anything"

You and I actually agree. I just may not have said it clearly. There were mistakes, some lack of training and from some points of view, perhaps negligence on that case. What I was trying to say was 7 years ago is not today a lot has changed and plus it's completely different LE.
My father was already retired and lived in Oregon City by the time the girls went missing . LE brought him in since this was his area of expertise.
There will always be lack of funding, lack of training and mistakes but hopefully improvements from those mistakes. There is no guarantee but IMO there is no point projecting that LE has blown this case yet either.

My other point was, as you know LE does not have to tell us anything. That could be very good or very bad depending on the outcome which we don't know yet. Of course it's incredibly frustrating and worst of all Kyron is not home.

 I like the back and forth, usually fair and balanced opinions here.  SM seems to welcome most theories, worries, ideas and brainstorming. I have my own take on LE and once in awhile I jump in and share, somehow thinking it might help ease some anxiety. My goal is not to shut anyone down from participating, hell I want to know things as much as anyone.

Not only can I cannot imagine anyone on this board feeling it is appropriate for Kyron to not be found and the search for him to ever stop, but knowing the serious life mission that drove my dad for 40 years. "to catch every creep that would hurt a kid out there"  I cannot believe that he was the only in LE to strongly feel that way.

I will continue to give LE the benefit of the doubt unless there is factual reason not to.

The 2 reasons I am here on SM are
 1) because like you Kyron hit home for me on many levels
 2) because I can no longer call my dad and experience the huge passion he had for this kind of injustice, but I can experience it here and that makes the world feel a bit safer.

[pdh3]

Good Evening, Monkeys.

TG, I agree with you about the lack of transparency in this case and it will NEVER be OK with me to just drop this.

 

But The biggest problem I have with this is:  it doesn't matter if LE searched or not, because the performance record of their findings (or lack thereof) -- even when a body is PRESENT and decomposing, is abysmal --.


I do know this:  He Who Will Not Be Named searched the school.  If Kyron had died at the school, his dogs would know and he would have reported it.  I'm pretty certain because of his search of the school, (it is public property so he could search there), Kyron was alive when he left the school. 

A death scent lingers for up to a year.

He also searched all public areas in the surrounding area.  The only death alert in that area is coming from the Horman's property.  (The wind has carried the scent to He Who Will Not Be Named on 3, possibly 4 separate occasions.) LE HAS searched the Horman's residence as well, numerous times.  But this means nothing.  The same dog handlers that missed Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis in Oregon City were "on it".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11065622/

So.... TG, you can sleep better knowing Kyron didn't end up in a dumpster on school grounds.


The question remains, though, who died or is dead on on KH's property Shady Nook?
 

I just consider the source...he who remains nameless....and move on.

[pdh3]

In my opinion, there are a few parts to this investigation as well as other missing person investigations..
In order of importance,
1. Find the missing person
2. Figure out who is responsible (if appropriate)
3. Justice (if appropriate)

In my opinion, finding the person is #1 and should never stop being #1. I cannot imagine anyone on this board feeling it is appropriate for Kyron to not  be found and the search for him to ever stop. If that is what you believe and is your message then there is no point in debating this because I so strongly disagree with you I cannot even participate in the discussion. 

As my sweet youngest son still says, time to go nite-nite. This has been a long, long day and I am ready for it to be over. Good night everyone.
Lets hope and pray tomorrow is the day Kyron will be found. 

With whom are you disagreeing? Everyone here wants Kyron found. The only problem with searches is LE's needing viable leads about where to search. They have searched the more likely areas, and we are aware that the have continued with searches. Some searches we do not hear about.

I do not understand your problem with the searches except with not knowing the details, especially those entailing dumpsters. It is a criminal investigation, and LE does not need to broadcast any details on any subject about the investigation. It is not unusual for LE not to release information on an investigation to the public or even to family members of a victim. You may think it is important for you to have the details, but LE does not. Have all the opinions you wish.

You will find out all you need to  know if and when there is a court case, though that could possibly be years from now. LE would like this case solved and prosecuted as soon as possible, but no one is handing them the information and evidence they need on a silver platter. It will take as long as it takes.

I agree with you.
I think LE would love to find Kyron. And I don't think they're letting it go cold at all.
I see no lack of dedication in this case. There are several LE agencies working on different aspects of criminal activity, and that's probably a very big reason for keeping things away from the public. This case seems to overlap into other cases.

LE does not owe internet posters, or the public any information in an active investigation unless the public is in danger. That doesn't seem to be the case here. If it helps to convict those responsible, then I hope we never hear another thing until the trial. Justice for Kyron, and his family, is paramount.

Instead of being frustrated with LE....I'm frustrated and furious with Terri Moulton Horman. She holds information crucial to this case, and yet she selfishly will not talk. That's where the blame for silence should rightly be heaped....right on to her.

[Nut44x4]

I can think of worse methods to get her to talk, but this would be a nice start.....


So many cases where the main POI won't talk...just doesn't seem right. There needs to be a way to make the perps talk! Our injustice system is way to lenient. Truth serum, torture methods.....whatever it takes, IMO.

[Grey]

Instead of being frustrated with LE....I'm frustrated and furious with Terri Moulton Horman. She holds information crucial to this case, and yet she selfishly will not talk. That's where the blame for silence should rightly be heaped....right on to her.
 

 
Very good point.

[mariloo]

I can think of worse methods to get her to talk, but this would be a nice start.....


So many cases where the main POI won't talk...just doesn't seem right. There needs to be a way to make the perps talk! Our injustice system is way to lenient. Truth serum, torture methods.....whatever it takes, IMO.

AMEN AND AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tracygirl]

It is not my curiosity that needs to be quenched, I feel LE should be accountable for what they have done so far to find this child. Agree or disagree it doesn't really matter. Truth is 5 months later, Kyron is still missing. I want to know why that is.  I have a right to ask that question, not for myself but for Kyron. LE is not above being held accountable. They are not above anything. They work for the citizens of the community they serve. There have been too many stories that involve LE not doing all they could to find a missing person, is that happening here? We don't know and I will not pretend I do. We can all assume until the cows come home, for me, that doesn't help Kyron at all.

Personally I don't understand what is the problem with asking the question and holding LE accountable for the search for Kyron. I don't care about their feelings, I care about this child being found. Not into the politically correctness some in this case seem to be crying out for. This is about Kyron.

We can't beat the truth out of anybody, as popular as the thought is, it ain't gonna happen. But you know even if Terri is arrested for murdering Kyron, the case is not over until Kyron is found. The point of this case for me is Kyron being found and brought home. What have they done so far to get that done? What are they doing now? Who is working the case? Where does this case stand as is? None of that will harm the investigation in my opinion.

Where is Kyron and what has been done so far to bring him home? Transparency and accountability is a good thing.