Zahra Clare Baker #2 10/13/10 - 10/16/10

[Brandi]

Update: Investigators searching a new spot in Burke Co. for missing girl's remains.

http://twitter.com/shelleyclynch

http://www.wcnc.com/news/Police-return-to-Burke-County-search-site-104880109.html

[luvmyboys]

How many kids lived in the home? I was just wondering where are they now and if they can be ask questions about zahra as in how long has it been since you saw her? Or was mommy mean to her? Questions like that

[Monkey King]

THE COVER-UP~seperate to what happened to Zahra.

Obviously, the brush fire in the yard was bogus.  This was very planned out.  How could they get attention to their home, and bring it out the Zahra is gone?  Hmm...

"Let's make a fire in the yard, write a bogus ransom note (and since the big boss man owns the house and he has a daughter, make it look like Zahra was taken by mistake!  The police will be so busy looking at previous renters and disgruntled employees, haha brilliant!!), then, we'll get some gas, (dump gas in the vehicle since I spilled it bringing it home and to cover up that smell) start a fire in the yard, call the Fire Dept., and leave the car door open, so the Fire Dept. observes this and finds the ransom note and we'll look like victims!!"

MK so if no death scent was in the house, where
did Zahra die at, on the way to the hickory house
in the car/truck, U rent truck, i just cant phantom
the scenario, death while they were moving, i know
i read the neighbor by the trailer, said she saw Zahra
go/move with AB and EB, im going to try to find that
story

CW~ Sadly, I dont believe Zahra moved to the new house.  HO said, a death scent could linger up to a year or more. So if the dogs are alerting to the vehicles and not in the house it doesnt seem like Zahra made it to the house. However, it does appear Zahra was placed on top of one vehicle while the other vehicle was brought around for transport.

[klaasend]

How many kids lived in the home? I was just wondering where are they now and if they can be ask questions about zahra as in how long has it been since you saw her? Or was mommy mean to her? Questions like that

I think it was only Zahra

[cw618]

This is kinda o/t but I was curious as to how many of you guys live in NC. If I am not being nosey just wondering that's all. Not sure if I am allowed to ask. And if I am not allowed to ask. Then I am so sorry

I am not from NC..but I think it is a beautiful state..been there many times ..both to the mountains and to the beach.

me to i want to retire there, i love to fish and MD, and the OBX is great for both
though the bakers live farther east, been there, have cuz or 2 in Charlotte

[Brandi]

How many kids lived in the home? I was just wondering where are they now and if they can be ask questions about zahra as in how long has it been since you saw her? Or was mommy mean to her? Questions like that

Just one, Zahra. Elisa has 2 grown daughters and a grown son from another marriage.

[Northern Rose]

Friends say missing NC girl's stepmother was angry


HICKORY, N.C. — To relatives and former neighbors, Elisa Baker had a short fuse. In interviews and court documents, they portrayed her as willing to use a gun or her fists to settle an argument and say her disabled stepdaughter usually bore the brunt of her nasty temper.

Investigators said Tuesday they believe someone killed 10-year-old Zahra Clare Baker, who was reported missing over the weekend. Baker showed no emotion in court Wednesday as a judge explained she could be sentenced to up to 30 months in prison if convicted of obstruction of justice. She is accused of trying to throw off investigators with a fake ransom note.

Baker's court-appointed attorney, Scott Reilly, said she was "scared to death" and very emotional about everything.

"She's upset about being held in jail. She's upset about being away from her family," he said.

Friends described a different side of Baker.

"She was always beating her," former neighbor Karen Yount said Tuesday. "I told her to stop but she wouldn't listen to anyone. That poor girl."

Seven officers and a police dog were searching for Zahra on a wooded lot among piles of mulch and a wood chipper on Wednesday. The property in Morganton has equipment belonging to the tree services company for which her father works.

An officer who asked for anonymity because he's not authorized to discuss the case confirmed the site was among several where officers are searching for the girl. The officer said a different dog got a "hit" at the scene a day earlier, but a search did not reveal anything.

Police said the search for Zahra had shifted to a homicide investigation, canceling a missing child alert for the shy but upbeat girl who used hearing aids and a prosthetic leg because of bone cancer.

District Attorney James Gaither Jr. said he couldn't discuss details about the case.

"I'm upset. The facts are disturbing. You saw the images, she is such a darling child," Gaither said.

Elisa Baker is the only person accused in the case so far. Hickory Police Chief Tom Adkins said she was charged with felony obstruction of justice after admitting she wrote the note, which asked for $1 million. She had already been in jail since the weekend on unrelated charges. Adkins said Baker has asked for an attorney, but none had been assigned late Tuesday.

At a news conference, Adkins said police can't find anyone outside the household who has seen Zahra alive in the last month. That uncertainty has stymied efforts to search for her, despite offers from volunteers in the city of 40,000 about 50 miles northwest of Charlotte.

"We understand the public wants to help find Zahra. The problem is we cannot confirm with any confidence how long Zahra has been missing," he said. "Without this information, we cannot positively select the area to search for her."

Zahra's father, Adam Baker, has said it was possible his wife could be involved in the disappearance, and other relatives echoed those remarks.

"I just think this was something for a long time that we knew was going to happen, everybody that was close to the family," relative Brittany Bentley said on CBS' "Early Show" on Tuesday.

Bentley, who is married to Elisa Baker's nephew, said she would have Zahra over for weekends and the girl would get angry when it was time to return home. The girl was being home-schooled, but had attended public schools in the past, police said.

Zahra "was locked in her room, allowed five minutes out a day to eat, that was it," Bentley said. "She was beat almost every time I was over there for just the smallest things. Elisa would get mad, she would take it out on Zahra, things the kid didn't deserve."

Adkins did not take any questions or further explain why the case was being treated as a homicide probe. A search warrant revealed on Monday that police dogs detected the smell of human remains on cars belonging to the father and stepmother.

Adam Baker has not been charged in the case, though the chief said previously he hasn't been ruled out as a suspect.

Caldwell County Court records show that Bentley filed a complaint May 13 against Elisa Baker, claiming she threatened to kill her and her young daughter in a dispute over money. She said Elisa Baker threatened them with a stun gun and a gun, and Bentley feared for their lives.

Ten days later, Yount said in her complaint that Elisa Baker made verbal threats against her child.

"She said my daughter and other girls were talking about her daughter. That wasn't true. She just started screaming and shouting and threatening to hit everybody," Yount said.
The ransom note found Saturday was the first sign that officers were faced with something more sinister. Zahra was reported missing that afternoon. The stepmother said she last saw Zahra sleeping in her room about 12 hours earlier, though Adkins has indicated he doesn't believe the timeline the couple gave him.

Officers investigated a yard fire at the girl's home hours before she was reported missing. Near the burnt limbs and grass, the note had been left on the windshield of the car belonging to Adam Baker.

It was addressed to Adam Baker's boss, though police quickly determined that man's family was safe.

Other neighbors say they also feared for the girl's safety.

"There were warning signs along the way, but you never want to think the worst," said former neighbor Kayla Rotenberry.

Her fiance, Bobby Green, said an investigator from the Department of Social Services visited the Bakers' house a few months ago: "I saw him when he knocked on their door. He said they were looking into whether the girl was being beaten."

The agency didn't return a phone message Tuesday.

Adam Baker was from Australia, and met his current wife over the Internet, a family friend said. Zahra's mother lives outside the U.S.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h4rxdEVLLWNY3lLWF2wqDQ34pAEwD9IQVIK82?docId=D9IQVIK82

[novella]

I am not convinced a wood chipper was used.  I think her body was moved a couple of times in trying to come up with a story in their "drugged out" minds. 

I think the death scent on the wood chippers is due to these people handling the body and not bathing and tranferring the death scent to several places.  It is throwing the dogs off....JMO.

I think it would be extremely messy using a wood chipper and extremely hard to get all trace evidence out of it.  A simple luminol test would show that it was not used.  There would be evidence everywhere, jmo.

Also we are talking about commercial wood chippers they are large and not easily moved.  Usually have their own trailer/wheels hooked to a truck as a pull behind piece of equipment. 

Links for the morbid on wood chipper deaths;

http://www.landscapeonline.com/research/article/6084
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.true-crime/2005-12/msg04252.html

I don't know...this man used a wood chipper...and it took weeks to gather forensic evidence:

MURDER - A GRUESOME DISPOSAL & COVERUP
           19- November -  Early morning - Helle Craft is in the bedroom when she is bludgeoned
                                    at the foot of the bed.
                                    Richard Crafts carries Helle's body into the basement and places her                                      inside the new freezer. He goes upstairs and wakes the au pair.
                                    He tells Dawn Thomas (au pair) that they are all to go to his sister's 
                                    house in Westport because Newtown has suffered a power failure.
                                   Dawn Thomas asks about Helle. Crafts tells her that Helle would meet                                     them there. He drives Thomas and the children to Westport and leaves 
                                   them ith his sister. He leaves for home. Later he will tell police he didn't 
                                   go anywhere once he got home.
                                   He removes Helle's frozen body from the freezer and transports her to                                     a property in Newtown he owns. It's secluded. He uses the chainsaw                                     on her body, cutting it into smaller pieces. He wraps them in plastic 
                                   garbage bags and return them to the freezer.
                                      Richard Crafts purchases new bedding.
        20 November - In the dark, Richard Crafts take the packages containing Helle's body                                 parts to Lake Zoar. He throws them one by one into the powerful wood
                               chipper.
                                       
                               When finished he drives the wood chipper in the u-haul to Houstatonic 
                               River and parks on the side of the River Road. He gets rid of more evidence
                               and then runs fresh wood through to clean it.
                              Unbeknownst to Richard, mail which Helle had in her pocket falls to the
                              ground. Small fragments of her bones, broken
http://cmm.lefora.com/2009/10/01/helle-crafts-richard-craft-convicted-murderer/

[pink angel]

Zahra could have died in the house and not dead long enough in the house to leave a scent that they dogs would pick up a couple weeks later.


Researchers are trying to determine how long the scent lingers when the body is no longer present, but there are no conclusive results yet—it may be two weeks, or it may be longer. One former Scotland Yard dog handler talking about the McCann case hypothesized that the scent wouldn't last more than a month.

http://www.slate.com/id/2174177/

[novella]

This is what was found in that woodchipper murder

"In the end, Dr. Lee said, "Our team's efforts at Lake Zoar eventually led to the discovery of 2,660 strands of blond hair, 69 slivers of human bone, 5 droplets of human blood, 2 teeth, a truncated piece of human skull, 3 ounces of human tissue, a portion of human finger, 1 fingernail, and 1 portion of toe nail."

Helle Crafts had been found."

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/family/woodchipper_murder/10.html

[Deenie]

How many kids lived in the home? I was just wondering where are they now and if they can be ask questions about zahra as in how long has it been since you saw her? Or was mommy mean to her? Questions like that

Luvmyboys,

Was said of the neighbor in the current home " Brick house" that Zahra was last to live at - The Neighbor was quoted saying " He never knew Zahra Existed" ..so I doubt she had any friends to speak of. The parents kept her locked away in her room.
http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13297637#

The neighbor that lived near the trailer home ( the previous residence of the Bakers)

"There is always hope," said Kayla Rotenberry who lives in the mobile home in Caldwell County next to where the little girl lived until this summer.  "She was such a sweet little girl."

On Tuesday, Rotenberry was showing people a drawing Zahra made and a bunny made out of a sock that the missing girl had given her daughter.

Rotenberry's fiance, Bobby Green, said, "I wish all kids were like Zahra."

Green said he saw the little girl with black eyes and bruises in the past, but said the girl's step-mother Elsa Baker "...always said it was Zahra falling down, Zahra doing this, Zahra doing that."  Green said he didn't believe the stepmother and thought something was wrong.

---
I am so trying to understand this. This is a Man " Bobby Green" and he says he witnessed Zahra with bruises, black eyes ...Zahra was friends with his fiances Daughter.  He says that he felt something was wrong. That Elisa Baker was not telling the truth of Zahra's " injuries" ..

That Zahra was at Risk.

Why in the H#ll didn't he take this up with Zahra's Dad. Man to Man. Hey I have noticed that Zahra has had a lot of bruises lately.. We are really worried about her. My fiance's daughter sees Zahra covered in bruises ... What the heck is going on with your Wife?  " SOMETHING" Anything.

Or Better yet just bypass the Dad and Call and report the Parents. Would that have been too difficult? Note he says " I wish all kids were like Zahra" so that shows reflection that he really did care about her. I guess not enough though, not enough to get involved.

 

[novella]

In that murder...he did freeze her first...so I wonder if the freezing of the human body would not lead to blood being on the wood chipper...he then ran wood through the wood chipper to clean it.

It is very gruesome to think about...and I can't think about this anymore today...I hope resolution to this case comes quickly.

[4 Donks]

Zahra could have died in the house and not dead long enough in the house to leave a scent that they dogs would pick up a couple weeks later.


Researchers are trying to determine how long the scent lingers when the body is no longer present, but there are no conclusive results yet—it may be two weeks, or it may be longer. One former Scotland Yard dog handler talking about the McCann case hypothesized that the scent wouldn't last more than a month.

http://www.slate.com/id/2174177/

It was my impression it was search dogs not cadaver dogs that couldn't pick up her scent in the house.

[Tolerance]

Raw video of court today
http://www.wbtv.com/global/category.asp?c=195957&clipId=5193863&topVideoCatNo=undefined&autoStart=true

When they were asking about a court appointed lawyer I could not understand what they said about 'her only source of income is _______________________
Could anyone make it out?
Thank you.
Tol

HUSBAND

Thank you, Klaas.

[Tolerance]

Raw video of court today
http://www.wbtv.com/global/category.asp?c=195957&clipId=5193863&topVideoCatNo=undefined&autoStart=true

When they were asking about a court appointed lawyer I could not understand what they said about 'her only source of income is _______________________
Could anyone make it out?
Thank you.
Tol

"that of your husband."

Thank you, Brandi and thank you for the artwork.  It helps to break up the sheer agony of reading about our Zahra.  It really helps. 

[fatcatlurker]

Novella - that's what my hubby said when I told him she was 85 pds which is a lot of dead weight.  He said they probably did it that way...and that would explain the death scent on the chipper and in the pile...and they could of put a tarp out to collect the bits than got rid of it how your article says. 

Especially if this was done a while ago.  I wonder if they cleaned the chipper recently...cleaned it with bleach or something like that? 

I'm still not so sure.  It's the dogs and the handlers I don't trust.  Dogs will hit on any dead blood scent imo.  And sometimes the handlers don't read the dogs right, like with Shaniya Davis - she was under deer carcasses and the dogs hit on her but the handlers pulled them away thinking they hit on the dead deer.  Later they got the confession from Mario Andretti ONeil that she was under the deer.   

I really would like to feed these people to the wood chipper I do know that. 

[novella]

and he positioned the woodchipper by the water...so he thought that the tiny remains of his wife were thoroughly disposed...but some of her fragments hit the bank.  So, I am wondering if the husband was able to ever move the wood chipper, did he not state something about moving equipment...  

[Tolerance]

Raw video of court today
http://www.wbtv.com/global/category.asp?c=195957&clipId=5193863&topVideoCatNo=undefined&autoStart=true

When they were asking about a court appointed lawyer I could not understand what they said about 'her only source of income is _______________________
Could anyone make it out?
Thank you.
Tol

"only income listed is that of your husband"

Thank you, NR.  and thank you for the updates.
Zahra has gotten to us, hasn't she.
Bless her little heart.

[Puzzler]

How many kids lived in the home? I was just wondering where are they now and if they can be ask questions about zahra as in how long has it been since you saw her? Or was mommy mean to her? Questions like that

Just one, Zahra. Elisa has 2 grown daughters and a grown son from another marriage.

How old is this woman vs. the dad?

[seahorse]

I am not convinced a wood chipper was used.  I think her body was moved a couple of times in trying to come up with a story in their "drugged out" minds. 

I think the death scent on the wood chippers is due to these people handling the body and not bathing and tranferring the death scent to several places.  It is throwing the dogs off....JMO.

I think it would be extremely messy using a wood chipper and extremely hard to get all trace evidence out of it.  A simple luminol test would show that it was not used.  There would be evidence everywhere, jmo.

Also we are talking about commercial wood chippers they are large and not easily moved.  Usually have their own trailer/wheels hooked to a truck as a pull behind piece of equipment. 

Links for the morbid on wood chipper deaths;

http://www.landscapeonline.com/research/article/6084
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Alt/alt.true-crime/2005-12/msg04252.html

I don't know...this man used a wood chipper...and it took weeks to gather forensic evidence:

MURDER - A GRUESOME DISPOSAL & COVERUP
           19- November -  Early morning - Helle Craft is in the bedroom when she is bludgeoned
                                    at the foot of the bed.
                                    Richard Crafts carries Helle's body into the basement and places her                                      inside the new freezer. He goes upstairs and wakes the au pair.
                                    He tells Dawn Thomas (au pair) that they are all to go to his sister's 
                                    house in Westport because Newtown has suffered a power failure.
                                   Dawn Thomas asks about Helle. Crafts tells her that Helle would meet                                     them there. He drives Thomas and the children to Westport and leaves 
                                   them ith his sister. He leaves for home. Later he will tell police he didn't 
                                   go anywhere once he got home.
                                   He removes Helle's frozen body from the freezer and transports her to                                     a property in Newtown he owns. It's secluded. He uses the chainsaw                                     on her body, cutting it into smaller pieces. He wraps them in plastic 
                                   garbage bags and return them to the freezer.
                                      Richard Crafts purchases new bedding.
        20 November - In the dark, Richard Crafts take the packages containing Helle's body                                 parts to Lake Zoar. He throws them one by one into the powerful wood
                               chipper.
                                       
                               When finished he drives the wood chipper in the u-haul to Houstatonic 
                               River and parks on the side of the River Road. He gets rid of more evidence
                               and then runs fresh wood through to clean it.
                              Unbeknownst to Richard, mail which Helle had in her pocket falls to the
                              ground. Small fragments of her bones, broken
http://cmm.lefora.com/2009/10/01/helle-crafts-richard-craft-convicted-murderer/

RC did a very good job, except, one fingernail he didn't put through the wood chipper.  Yes, it was one fingernail that nailed
him! Oh, someone saw him on snowy winters day, operating a woodchipper, that also helped convict him, if my memory
serves me correctly.