Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #35 11/11/10 - 11/21/10

[Puzzler]

IMO, you can go over the 'would a should a could a' all you want. My point is that Terri Moulton Hormon is the POI here. The past can not be changed.

This is all about getting that narcissist woman to tell the truth, and that truth would be, WTH is Kyron! 

IMO...which means nothing...just my opinion...I don't think Terri will ever say anymore than she's already said a thousand times in those first few days of being questioned by LE. We heard she was asked the same questions over-and-over, hours on end, for days and she's said all she's going to say. Either she's not talking or she's already told all she knows and LE isn't happy with her answers. 

[islandmonkey]

I am starting to think something really horrific was going on in regards to the dynamics of the family, not the kids but Terri and Kaine and now I have to wonder "is this WHY she sent James away", and why she wanted Kryon out of the house.....I know I am grasping at straws, but when looking at everything I have to consider how the monster got in so to speak. Was there something we haven't exaimed thoroughly going on as "different lifestyle choices, drugs, dealers".........just tossing a few out, but I am just trying to think outside the box, while I do think Terri IS responsible I think the timeline might be a little tight for her to do the unthinkable and then get back to the gym, and not leave any forensic evidence behind. I can only lean towards she had an accomplice that got Kyron out of the school and it wasn't Terri directly that did the unimaginable. Sorry to ramble

Also as far as Desiree going to court to change custody, I know in most cases there has to be a substantial change in circumstance, at least to change custody in court......but, I know many who have agreed to out of court settlements when there was a significant change and these were done so the child wouldn't have to testify and save them possible embarassement/or trauma for showing a preference to live with one parent, and also cost savings (that money could pay for a yr of college in many cases), so I applaud those who can get past the typical issues and do what is best for the child. Like I stated I have seen it in 3 cases of friends/acquaintence, the rest were ugly, drawn out and very expensive battles and only one actually was able to change custody.

[can]

I fully understand how an alcoholic can deceive. 
A member of my family, although exhibiting unusual behavior, which I put down to emotional issues derived from the pain of feeling unloved by her Mother since early childhood.  Long story short, I now know she has had seizures, blackouts and has been hospitalized for same on more than one occasion.  I rec'd a call from her then boyfriend that she was in the hospital and why.  She denied her alcohol problem but I continued to approach her with my knowledge and attempted to get her help.  Perhaps because she knows how much I love her and have always been a caring Aunt (she lived with me when she was just 17 and was treated as we treated our own children) she made the admission.  Alas and sadly she has spiraled downward over the years.
Hindsight is 20/20.

My heart goes out to Kaine and Desiree, Kyron's siblings
and all the heartbroken family members that love him.

[Puzzler]

Okay..not placing blame here...but...did LE tell us that Terri hated Kyron?  If so, I haven't read that part yet and will eventually get to it if it's posted on SM.

[Puzzler]

Personally I hope they are about ready to arrest someone

PLEASE let them be on the verge of arresting someone...and quickly!!!

[islandmonkey]

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

I'm sure they both feel too horrible for words.  I DON'T doubt that for one second.

I'm not placing any blame on Desiree.  I just have a question about Desiree.

Why place blame on Kaine because Terri is the unstable one?  Well, he lived with Terri, he was aware of all the problems. He has scorched the woman to high heavens in court filings.  According to Desiree, he never shared any of that with Desiree.  I knew when I read the filings that Desiree was going to be livid.  She should be!  She has every right! It just hurts so bad to see her so destroyed.

According to Desiree, she never saw any indications of problems with alcohol.  Yes...IMO...there's a problem with Kaine keeping all that to himself..."if true"...when another bio parent is kept in the dark....especially when Desiree discussed Kyron being unhappy and wanting to stay with her.  If Terri was a passing-out drunk several nights a week...why wouldn't Kaine have worked out something with Desiree to ease the burden on Kyron"?  Kyron had to have been stressed out over all of this; yet, everyone says he was a happy little boy and always smiling. We know when a child's homelife isn't going well, it shows up in little ways...usually through school.  I think Kyron loved his mother and wanted to spend more time with her and Kaine wouldn't let it happen...no, it's not an option...even though it would have been better for Kyron - if what Kaine says in his court papers is true. (Repeat: I have no reason to not believe what Kaine said in his filings was true.)

Kaine says in court filings that Terri is a stumbling, speech slurring, passed-out drunk many nights of the week.  He questions her mental health, too.  Yet, he appeared to be fine with having Terri take care of both his children in her condition. 

If I were Desiree and I found out what Kaine has asserted in his court documents about the person who's been taking care of my child...what the "father" says about the person he let that care of my child, I would be upset beyond words.  Now we hear from Desiree that about a year and a half ago she approached Kaine about getting custody of Kyron and Kaine says it's not an option.  She did broach the subject.  

I do wonder why Desiree wasn't more assertive in trying to get custody of Kyron, because Desiree said today that Terri blamed Kyron for all Terri/Kaine's marriage problems and Terri didn't like Kyron and Kyron was unhappy, too.  Now...IMO...it's Desiree's business as to why she didn't go to court and fight for custody. 

It's just a crying shame to hear about all of this now because where Desiree was already in a fragile state....now that Kaine's court filings have been made public...can only make Desiree's mind set soooo much worse.  It's too sad for words.

And, Kaine...while I DO have deep sympathy for him because his son is missing...immense sympathy...I can't help but wonder about why he wouldn't even discuss with Desiree of her having custody of Kyron...or at least a little more custody ( some sort of compromise maybe) when Kaine KNEW what kind of home life Kyron was living (if everything in Kaine's court filings is true and I have no reason to believe it's not)...Kaine portrays a picture of a person (Terri) who should NEVER be left to take care of his son...especially if she's got any mental problems, is a passing-out nightly drunk, etc. 

According to Desiree, Kaine NEVER relayed any problems to her...he wouldn't...he didn't want to lose custody of Kyron.  However, does it mean that Kaine acted in the best interest of Kyron?  Well, that's a good question...IMO.

And....now....why would Terri do anything with Kyron on June 4....just when Kyron was getting ready to go stay with his mom for the summer...just when Kyron was going to be out of Terri's life for a while?  Huh??

  Wow~ that is a great question and very thought provoking......

[no rose colored glasses]

And....now....why would Terri do anything with Kyron on June 4....just when Kyron was getting ready to go stay with his mom for the summer...just when Kyron was going to be out of Terri's life for a while?  Huh??      Wow, good question Puzzler, never would have thought about that. I'm not doubting anyone that has been saying that alcoholics can hide their problem, I'm just not familiar with any that were able to disguise it, and it is interesting to me, you would just think that some actions of the person you could put two and two together, but I guess some people are very good at hiding it.

[Scatty]

Also, Klaasend...when we are in terrible situations with loved ones...we do tend to make excuses because we love them and it is difficult to sometimes see the problem when you are in the thick of it...too busy reacting and limiting the fall out.  But, Kaine is making contradictory statements.  People can see that.  Contradictions are red flags. 

His statements aren't contradictory if you look at the timeline of what he says. For example, when a crime is first committed LE can say they have no suspects, Mr X is not a person of interest. Two days later they can say they view Mr. X as a person of interest. Contradictory? No, just different based on new information. In Kaine's case, the more he found out, from LE and friends following Ky's disappearance, a new picture came into focus. A different picture. That's a change based on new facts. To blindly stick to what he first said and thought, despite new evidence to the contrary would make him Cindy Anthony, not Kaine Horman.

[Puzzler]

And....now....why would Terri do anything with Kyron on June 4....just when Kyron was getting ready to go stay with his mom for the summer...just when Kyron was going to be out of Terri's life for a while?  Huh??      Wow, good question Puzzler, never would have thought about that. I'm not doubting anyone that has been saying that alcoholics can hide their problem, I'm just not familiar with any that were able to disguise it, and it is interesting to me, you would just think that some actions of the person you could put two and two together, but I guess some people are very good at hiding it.

But, but, but...according to Kaine's court filing...Terri was a passing-out drunk several nights a week...IMO...that's NOT "hiding".

[Lazydog1]

I won't say anything bad about Desiree, Kaine or Tony. There is no doubt in my mind they are beating themselves way more than we could ever imagine. After all we don't know the whole story still it is just bits and pieces thrown out for us to chew on.

As far as Kyron going to spend the summer with Desiree it was my understanding that first he was taking a trip with his Dad to visit friends in California.

My other thought is a whole summer with Desiree and Kyron might have talked. Maybe he threatened to tell Tony and Desiree what an evil SM she was. We don't know what happened that day. I don't know if we ever will. What I do know is these people are in a situation I would never want to live thru and not sure I even could.

How sad that those emails were sent and the friend didn't step forward with this information which might have prevented the loss of the this beautiful child. I really want to know which friend or friends these were sent to.  Also did she tell her parents she hated this child. Seriously how can a child cause so much trouble in a marriage? I imagine Kaine was defending Kyron and her wanting to constantly discipline him for one thing or another. If Kaine was so bad why does James want to see him again. That really doesn't make sense to me. He stated that himself.

Just rambling I know but emotions are running so high today with everyone. Imagine how the emotions are for the family involved. It is not up to us to make it worse for them. JMO

[Puzzler]

Also, Klaasend...when we are in terrible situations with loved ones...we do tend to make excuses because we love them and it is difficult to sometimes see the problem when you are in the thick of it...too busy reacting and limiting the fall out.  But, Kaine is making contradictory statements.  People can see that.  Contradictions are red flags. 

His statements aren't contradictory if you look at the timeline of what he says. For example, when a crime is first committed LE can say they have no suspects, Mr X is not a person of interest. Two days later they can say they view Mr. X as a person of interest. Contradictory? No, just different based on new information. In Kaine's case, the more he found out, from LE and friends following Ky's disappearance, a new picture came into focus. A different picture. That's a change based on new facts. To blindly stick to what he first said and thought, despite new evidence to the contrary would make him Cindy Anthony, not Kaine Horman.

IMO...a man should know he's got a problem if his wife is a passing-out drunk several nights a week.  For Kaine to say that in a court filing...yet to say he thought every thing was okay...IMO those ARE contradictory statements and they do raise questions as to which is the "truth".

[Grey]

It would be interesting to know if Terri really was under a doctor's care and on medication from the period after Kiara's birth until Kyron's disappearance.

Anti-depressants are tricky medications, and they do not work the same for all patients. They take awhile to take effect, then it takes time to see if they are working. If they are not working correctly, the patient needs to be weaned off of one and put on another, wait for it to take effect, then see how it is working. Sometimes changes in dosage are involved. They are mind-altering drugs, and a patient may not realize something is wrong. Even after stopping the usage of anti-depressants, the effects can linger for a year.

Anti-depressants can cause coordination problems (stumbling). Anti-depressants, or the lack of, could cause the rapid change in Terri's appearance.

Alcohol is not supposed to be consumed while taking anti-depressants. I have no idea what previous stimulant or drug usage would add to the mix. Terri may have been a walking chemical bomb.

If Kaine cannot get to her medical records through the divorce, LE certainly will if the investigation/charges warrant it.

I do not want to see PPD or medications blamed for the disappearance of Kyron, and good luck on getting two "experts" to agree if it is brought up.

[Scatty]

I still believe that Terri was telling Kaine she ad PPD nad was taking medication..and he atrributed much of the behavior to that situation.

Good reminder! I'd forgotten about the PPD tale that had been going around at first. I think Kaine totally believed that until slowly that excuse seemed to get stripped away. I do remember thinking when I first heard the PPD story--"baloney!" Another possible excuse for the sociopath to hide behind. If it's not alcohol, or drugs, it's PPD, or the meds for PPD---all baloney. One thing and one thing only IMO--Sociopath. Everything else is a crutch these people use in their lives to make them seem like others, or allow them to interact realistically with others, even in a negative way. They need to be viewed as anything but the soulless, calculating, unfeeling empty shells they truly are.

[Tracygirl]

All I can say is I have lived with an alcoholic who drank everyday. I didn't realized there was a problem until I myself was not drinking. When I stopped and have stopped now for about 25 years, I noticed how bad his drinking was. I have no idea if this is Kaines story or not but it could fit I suppose.

I find this all so sad. We have the bio mom saying if she only knew, a dad saying he didn't realize, a step mom who is now silent and a little boy who at one time wanted to stay with his mama, and who is now missing. It is a heartbreaking case of "what if's". Kaine does not have to answer to any of us, but I do believe he owes Desiree the full story. He has to own up to her completely, she deserves to know anything else which might come out from him. No covering, no stories, no defensiveness, just the plain old truth.

[cw618]

Yes, if those emails are legitimate it is pretty sad that a grown woman could hate a seven year old.  It seems like many parents these days refuse to grow up and take responsibility for the children they brought into this world or for those they accepted responsibility for by marrying someone with children. 

does anyone remember, the post about a woman who hated her stepchild
and couldnt understand why she did exactly, i think there was a link
 to that post, and i think that post had something to due with th
or maybe my memory is just bad

[Tracygirl]

I won't say anything bad about Desiree, Kaine or Tony. There is no doubt in my mind they are beating themselves way more than we could ever imagine. After all we don't know the whole story still it is just bits and pieces thrown out for us to chew on.

As far as Kyron going to spend the summer with Desiree it was my understanding that first he was taking a trip with his Dad to visit friends in California. My other thought is a whole summer with Desiree and Kyron might have talked. Maybe he threatened to tell Tony and Desiree what an evil SM she was. We don't know what happened that day. I don't know if we ever will. What I do know is these people are in a situation I would never want to live thru and not sure I even could.

How sad that those emails were sent and the friend didn't step forward with this information which might have prevented the loss of the this beautiful child. I really want to know which friend or friends these were sent to.  Also did she tell her parents she hated this child. Seriously how can a child cause so much trouble in a marriage? I imagine Kaine was defending Kyron and her wanting to constantly discipline him for one thing or another. If Kaine was so bad why does James want to see him again. That really doesn't make sense to me. He stated that himself.

Just rambling I know but emotions are running so high today with everyone. Imagine how the emotions are for the family involved. It is not up to us to make it worse for them. JMO

Really are you sure of this?

[Puzzler]

And looking at the Zahra case, LE would not even confirm if the jailhouse letters were EB's...so what purpose would LE have to show DY and KH those emails?  Wouldn't those emails be potential evidence at least to establish motive? 

Yes, they would definately be evidence.  My, my...WHAT is really going on???

[Scatty]

Also, Klaasend...when we are in terrible situations with loved ones...we do tend to make excuses because we love them and it is difficult to sometimes see the problem when you are in the thick of it...too busy reacting and limiting the fall out.  But, Kaine is making contradictory statements.  People can see that.  Contradictions are red flags. 

His statements aren't contradictory if you look at the timeline of what he says. For example, when a crime is first committed LE can say they have no suspects, Mr X is not a person of interest. Two days later they can say they view Mr. X as a person of interest. Contradictory? No, just different based on new information. In Kaine's case, the more he found out, from LE and friends following Ky's disappearance, a new picture came into focus. A different picture. That's a change based on new facts. To blindly stick to what he first said and thought, despite new evidence to the contrary would make him Cindy Anthony, not Kaine Horman.

IMO...a man should know he's got a problem if his wife is a passing-out drunk several nights a week.  For Kaine to say that in a court filing...yet to say he thought every thing was okay...IMO those ARE contradictory statements and they do raise questions as to which is the "truth".

He may not have assumed at the time she was passed out drunk on the couch. Passed out could mean gone to sleep after staying up late on the computer. And even if he thought she did drink a few at the end of the day to relax, and goes to sleep on the couch instead of coming to bed, that doesn't necessarily spell alcoholic. It could mean marital difficulties, unwillingness to share the same bed. Now if he came home from work and found her passed out dead drunk on a regular basis when she was supposed to be watching Kiara or picking up Kyron, that would definitely be a red flag. But that was not the case. Besides, I think Kaine's just starting to discover that alcohol possibly wasn't the main problem. What makes the woman an unfit mother is what makes her unfit to be free--she's a sociopath! IMO.

[islandmonkey]

Also, Klaasend...when we are in terrible situations with loved ones...we do tend to make excuses because we love them and it is difficult to sometimes see the problem when you are in the thick of it...too busy reacting and limiting the fall out.  But, Kaine is making contradictory statements.  People can see that.  Contradictions are red flags. 

His statements aren't contradictory if you look at the timeline of what he says. For example, when a crime is first committed LE can say they have no suspects, Mr X is not a person of interest. Two days later they can say they view Mr. X as a person of interest. Contradictory? No, just different based on new information. In Kaine's case, the more he found out, from LE and friends following Ky's disappearance, a new picture came into focus. A different picture. That's a change based on new facts. To blindly stick to what he first said and thought, despite new evidence to the contrary would make him Cindy Anthony, not Kaine Horman.

IMO...a man should know he's got a problem if his wife is a passing-out drunk several nights a week.  For Kaine to say that in a court filing...yet to say he thought every thing was okay...IMO those ARE contradictory statements and they do raise questions as to which is the "truth".

This is why I was asking if affadavits can include speculation and supposition as opposed to facts. Like I said, when I had to file one, I stated what I witnessed with my own eyes and no speculating was allowed (but it could have been my atty, so I wish we had an atty to answer that question).

My brother is an alcoholic and yes they are extremeley deceptive, we never knew in the beginning what was up with him as he suffers from manic-depression also, BUT he was still never allowed around my kids alone and then only for Thanksgiving dinner and special occasions, even after rehab I still won't allow it, I'd never forgive myself if he had one of my kids in the car and had a car accident due to the list of problems in the reponse and never in the house alone with them either as I was always afraid he might forget to turn off the oven and burn the house down etc........it just wasn't a risk I was willing to take.

I am praying for an arrest as soon as possible, and hope this search is based on more than what they are telling us.

[Scatty]

Yes, if those emails are legitimate it is pretty sad that a grown woman could hate a seven year old.  It seems like many parents these days refuse to grow up and take responsibility for the children they brought into this world or for those they accepted responsibility for by marrying someone with children. 

does anyone remember, the post about a woman who hated her stepchild
and couldnt understand why she did exactly, i think there was a link
 to that post, and i think that post had something to due with th
or maybe my memory is just bad

cw618! Yes!! I've been trying to find that link. I'm sure it was Terri. It was a site for step-parents. Was it from iVillage? Does anyone have that link?