Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #35 11/11/10 - 11/21/10

[O4Bull]

I didn't watch the segment but it sounds like it was an angry speech (and who could blame her):

tirade [taɪˈreɪd]
n
1. a long angry speech or denunciation

I respect you, Klaas, and agree that the speech sounded angry.  I'm just really sick of the snark.  I'm surprised she's allowed to do this over and over and over.  Maybe I'm just too sensitive, I'm going through a trying time here, and I just really feel like Grey is over the top smartassy.  It's uncalled for, and I guess I just need to quit reading here until Grey gets some happy in her pants.

I'm sick of all the drinks and banana toasting, but I don't complain.  It's just nice forum manners, I wish Grey would learn some.

  O4B~so good to see you posting, pls don't let someone's attitude stop you from posting, speaking for myself and I can say many others we miss your posting, insight and humor. Maybe you could loan a thong out for some "happy" pants ......
 

What a heartbreaking case, this on top of Zahra's case ......well, it's just unimaginable and I have always worried this case would turn out like HaLeigh's case with no resolution, no semblance of closure for those who love this little boy and miss him

Hey, IM!
I hope you're wrong about never receiving closure regarding Kyron.  Sadly, I think we will find out and then wish we hadn't.  I think TH had help and hopefully that means someone will roll, eventually.  I'm hoping so, at least.  Zahara's case is just a heart wrencher, she had such a tough life.  I don't understand how anyone could hurt a child.  It is just so unfathomable to me.

You and your daughter are beautiful!  I'm super jealous of all the time you get to spend at the beach.  My favorite haunt is HHI where we try to go at least once a year, usually two or three times.

[sassifrass]

Did I imagine it or did Desiree say in this mornings interview that she didn't know about Terri's DUI?

No ~ IIRC you didn't imagine it, I hope this will bring full disclosure with Desiree and Tony in regards to what went on in the  Horman home with the only exception being LE asked for it not to be shared. To be blindsided on top of everything else must have been like a wave that knocked her off her feet, I can't even imagine 

The dui was way back in 2005 and she just found out about it? See now that is not right. Desiree had a right to all information regarding her son and his living arrangments. Kaine had no right to withhold that information

I wonder if she meant she jsut found out about it as in after the disappearance of literally just now, I would think she would have heard about it since it has been out there on the net for so long, but the other info clearly blindsided her.

I am going to see if I can find both transcripts or watch both of these vids again.

I think the key response from Desiree is that she found out after Kyron went missing.

[O4Bull]

JMO but I think Kaine is going to use whatever he has to keep the present child away from Terri Horman until this is resolved.  I personally can't say I blame him at this point.  Until or Unless she talked and cleared it in "my mind" that she was not involved in Kyron missing I'd throw everything I had at her to include the kitchen sink to protect the present child.  And I'm sure guilt over Kyron is pushing him forward on this.  All JMO.

I agree with you, but his attorney should know that TH's attorneys will beat him up on the stand if he tries to say she was all these things, yet he continued to leave Kiara in her care, why is he complaining now.  He can offer whatever excuse he wants to, but I can guarantee you her attorney will beat him up if he keeps contradicting himself.

[O4Bull]

IM - It really doesn't matter what you or I "buy".  He may not have realized until recently that her actions were alcohol related.  We really don't know. 

passed out, slurring her speech, and combative.  what did he think it was, PMS?

Good to see you O4Bull 

Hey NRCG!
It's good to see you too.   

[O4Bull]

IM - It really doesn't matter what you or I "buy".  He may not have realized until recently that her actions were alcohol related.  We really don't know. 

passed out, slurring her speech, and combative.  what did he think it was, PMS?

Sounds like you were at my house 2 weeks ago.......

[no rose colored glasses]

Yes, Tony was going to take Kyron fishing, but I believe a trip to CA with Kaine was also planned.

[islandmonkey]

I didn't watch the segment but it sounds like it was an angry speech (and who could blame her):

tirade [taɪˈreɪd]
n
1. a long angry speech or denunciation

I respect you, Klaas, and agree that the speech sounded angry.  I'm just really sick of the snark.  I'm surprised she's allowed to do this over and over and over.  Maybe I'm just too sensitive, I'm going through a trying time here, and I just really feel like Grey is over the top smartassy.  It's uncalled for, and I guess I just need to quit reading here until Grey gets some happy in her pants.

I'm sick of all the drinks and banana toasting, but I don't complain.  It's just nice forum manners, I wish Grey would learn some.

  O4B~so good to see you posting, pls don't let someone's attitude stop you from posting, speaking for myself and I can say many others we miss your posting, insight and humor. Maybe you could loan a thong out for some "happy" pants ......
 

What a heartbreaking case, this on top of Zahra's case ......well, it's just unimaginable and I have always worried this case would turn out like HaLeigh's case with no resolution, no semblance of closure for those who love this little boy and miss him

Hey, IM!
I hope you're wrong about never receiving closure regarding Kyron.  Sadly, I think we will find out and then wish we hadn't.  I think TH had help and hopefully that means someone will roll, eventually.  I'm hoping so, at least.  Zahara's case is just a heart wrencher, she had such a tough life.  I don't understand how anyone could hurt a child.  It is just so unfathomable to me.

You and your daughter are beautiful!  I'm super jealous of all the time you get to spend at the beach.  My favorite haunt is HHI where we try to go at least once a year, usually two or three times.

I agree that there had to be an accomplice IMO, but am still shocked it has gone on this long and in Zahra's case to have a sweet child battle and win against cancer twice only to lose to her father and stepmonster is almost too much to even think about.....it is unfathomable, yet we are here and so many threads with parents/stepparents involved.

Thank you~I posted it to show how well she is doing, getting all A's in school which is a first living in her own apt and working, so I am extremely proud of how far she has come, God knows I think I'd still be curled up in a ball (and on certain holidays/birthdays I am).......but, we are learning to live with it and move forward. HHI is gorgeous too and I am so grateful we were blessed to have been brought to our happy Island yrs ago.

[O4Bull]

"Kaine Horman told reporters today that he never thought that his son Kyron was in danger around his estranged wife in the months before he disappeared."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

You can bet that TH's attorney will ask Kaine if she was a drunk, and all of the things he brings up in his motion, then why did he continue to leave his children in her care.  THis is a double-edged sword for him, and I think he needs to drop it.  JMO

Agree.

He has vascillated between statements.  Maybe Kaine didn't think Kyron was in danger with Terri.  If so...then was Terri a passing-out drunk and mentally unstable or not?

I just don't think he needs the argument, he has enough dirt on her.  He is just slinging mud at a pig, IMO.

[O4Bull]

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

I'm not blaming Kaine, his conscience will torture him for the rest of his life, my opinion is nothing but an opinion.  However, I do not like how he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.  He is coming across as unbelievable, it appears he is a "win at any cost" kind of guy.  First with Desiree, and now with Terri.  That's my opinion, no hatred or blame, just what I see. 

Speaking of things I don't believe, IIRC right after he left the house with Kitty he was asked or he told someone that she never asked about her mother........I find that hard to believe and he stated it again today, Kitty has no clue what her mom is other than her mom, so these little blurbs IMO make him come across as less credible, not that I believe he had anything to do with Kyron disappearing but ITA about the "win at all cost" appearance, I was married to someone like that and he spoke out of both sides of his mouth too, but his bit him in his @ss when he got on the stand he was obliterated.

Yes, I don't think she wouldn't ask about her mother.  Children love their parents, even when they're evil.

[klaasend]

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

I'm not blaming Kaine, his conscience will torture him for the rest of his life, my opinion is nothing but an opinion.  However, I do not like how he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.  He is coming across as unbelievable, it appears he is a "win at any cost" kind of guy.  First with Desiree, and now with Terri.  That's my opinion, no hatred or blame, just what I see. 

Speaking of things I don't believe, IIRC right after he left the house with Kitty he was asked or he told someone that she never asked about her mother........I find that hard to believe and he stated it again today, Kitty has no clue what her mom is other than her mom, so these little blurbs IMO make him come across as less credible, not that I believe he had anything to do with Kyron disappearing but ITA about the "win at all cost" appearance, I was married to someone like that and he spoke out of both sides of his mouth too, but his bit him in his @ss when he got on the stand he was obliterated.

Yes, I don't think she wouldn't ask about her mother.  Children love their parents, even when they're evil.

What if she saw what happened to Kyron and is talking?

[Tracygirl]

I remember reading about a vacation that Kaine and Kyron were going to take, but can't remember where I read that.

I think I heard it on Dateline, a trip to California IIRC....

Kaine has a friend on facebook that lives in California. The friend is orignially from WA state, does anyone recall who he was planning on visiting

[Tracygirl]

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

I'm not blaming Kaine, his conscience will torture him for the rest of his life, my opinion is nothing but an opinion.  However, I do not like how he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.  He is coming across as unbelievable, it appears he is a "win at any cost" kind of guy.  First with Desiree, and now with Terri.  That's my opinion, no hatred or blame, just what I see. 

Speaking of things I don't believe, IIRC right after he left the house with Kitty he was asked or he told someone that she never asked about her mother........I find that hard to believe and he stated it again today, Kitty has no clue what her mom is other than her mom, so these little blurbs IMO make him come across as less credible, not that I believe he had anything to do with Kyron disappearing but ITA about the "win at all cost" appearance, I was married to someone like that and he spoke out of both sides of his mouth too, but his bit him in his @ss when he got on the stand he was obliterated.

Yes, I don't think she wouldn't ask about her mother.  Children love their parents, even when they're evil.

What if she saw what happened to Kyron and is talking?

I wonder if it would be considered a witness statement? couldn't that be used to arrest Terri?

[islandmonkey]

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

I'm not blaming Kaine, his conscience will torture him for the rest of his life, my opinion is nothing but an opinion.  However, I do not like how he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.  He is coming across as unbelievable, it appears he is a "win at any cost" kind of guy.  First with Desiree, and now with Terri.  That's my opinion, no hatred or blame, just what I see. 

Speaking of things I don't believe, IIRC right after he left the house with Kitty he was asked or he told someone that she never asked about her mother........I find that hard to believe and he stated it again today, Kitty has no clue what her mom is other than her mom, so these little blurbs IMO make him come across as less credible, not that I believe he had anything to do with Kyron disappearing but ITA about the "win at all cost" appearance, I was married to someone like that and he spoke out of both sides of his mouth too, but his bit him in his @ss when he got on the stand he was obliterated.

Yes, I don't think she wouldn't ask about her mother.  Children love their parents, even when they're evil.

What if she saw what happened to Kyron and is talking?

What would she have been in months at the time, IIRC about 17 months? I can't recall that far back sadly, so I wonder if she could even have enough vocabulary to talk about it (although from what I remember girls vocab starts earlier and is more proficient than boys).....

The fact that she had Kitty IMO makes me believe even more that Kyron was lured out and didn't leave with Terri , or maybe it's just beyond my imagination to consider a mother "disappearing" a child with another one with her, my mind can't go there even though I know it's happened before.

[fatcatlurker]

Yes, Tony was going to take Kyron fishing, but I believe a trip to CA with Kaine was also planned.

For what it's worth - Kaine says in the presser that they split summers.  He had Kyron half the summer and Desiree half the summer.  And yes I remember a trip to CA with Kaine also.

[islandmonkey]

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

I'm not blaming Kaine, his conscience will torture him for the rest of his life, my opinion is nothing but an opinion.  However, I do not like how he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.  He is coming across as unbelievable, it appears he is a "win at any cost" kind of guy.  First with Desiree, and now with Terri.  That's my opinion, no hatred or blame, just what I see. 

Speaking of things I don't believe, IIRC right after he left the house with Kitty he was asked or he told someone that she never asked about her mother........I find that hard to believe and he stated it again today, Kitty has no clue what her mom is other than her mom, so these little blurbs IMO make him come across as less credible, not that I believe he had anything to do with Kyron disappearing but ITA about the "win at all cost" appearance, I was married to someone like that and he spoke out of both sides of his mouth too, but his bit him in his @ss when he got on the stand he was obliterated.

Yes, I don't think she wouldn't ask about her mother.  Children love their parents, even when they're evil.

What if she saw what happened to Kyron and is talking?

I wonder if it would be considered a witness statement? couldn't that be used to arrest Terri?

I can only speak from my experience in TN, my son never testified because he was just 3 1/2 and the attys said he would have to be cross examined I was hoping we had lived in a state that allowed excited utterance or other ways for him to testify but the DA said he was too young.......I can't imagine having to see him go thru that when he was so fragile, but other states are different, some allow a child to testify thru a guardian ad litem (does Kitty have one? ) or from a videotape, but in TN an defendant has the right to question the accuser so I just don't know, another great question for an atty

[Tracygirl]

Did I imagine it or did Desiree say in this mornings interview that she didn't know about Terri's DUI?

No ~ IIRC you didn't imagine it, I hope this will bring full disclosure with Desiree and Tony in regards to what went on in the  Horman home with the only exception being LE asked for it not to be shared. To be blindsided on top of everything else must have been like a wave that knocked her off her feet, I can't even imagine 

The dui was way back in 2005 and she just found out about it? See now that is not right. Desiree had a right to all information regarding her son and his living arrangments. Kaine had no right to withhold that information

I wonder if she meant she jsut found out about it as in after the disappearance of literally just now, I would think she would have heard about it since it has been out there on the net for so long, but the other info clearly blindsided her.

I am going to see if I can find both transcripts or watch both of these vids again.

I think the key response from Desiree is that she found out after Kyron went missing.

Yea that is what I thought I heard. This happened to me, my ex's live in girlfriend got a DUI and I found out about it by running a criminal background on her. Trust me, he didn't tell me because he wanted to protect his butt, had nothing to do with the kids.

[fatcatlurker]

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

I'm not blaming Kaine, his conscience will torture him for the rest of his life, my opinion is nothing but an opinion.  However, I do not like how he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.  He is coming across as unbelievable, it appears he is a "win at any cost" kind of guy.  First with Desiree, and now with Terri.  That's my opinion, no hatred or blame, just what I see. 

Speaking of things I don't believe, IIRC right after he left the house with Kitty he was asked or he told someone that she never asked about her mother........I find that hard to believe and he stated it again today, Kitty has no clue what her mom is other than her mom, so these little blurbs IMO make him come across as less credible, not that I believe he had anything to do with Kyron disappearing but ITA about the "win at all cost" appearance, I was married to someone like that and he spoke out of both sides of his mouth too, but his bit him in his @ss when he got on the stand he was obliterated.

Yes, I don't think she wouldn't ask about her mother.  Children love their parents, even when they're evil.

What if she saw what happened to Kyron and is talking?

What would she have been in months at the time, IIRC about 17 months? I can't recall that far back sadly, so I wonder if she could even have enough vocabulary to talk about it (although from what I remember girls vocab starts earlier and is more proficient than boys).....

The fact that she had Kitty IMO makes me believe even more that Kyron was lured out and didn't leave with Terri , or maybe it's just beyond my imagination to consider a mother "disappearing" a child with another one with her, my mind can't go there even though I know it's happened before.

I would bet traumatic events can be recalled by some.  I can remember one from 3 and really not a horrible horrible thing - just traumatic for a 3 yr old.  I related the story to my mother exactly how it happened and she was present and could not believe I remembered it so clearly years later.  So who knows?  Sometimes the mind protects us until we are ready.

As much as I'd like this resolved I sure hope not for Kiara's sake.  That would be awful IMO.

[Puzzler]

Did I imagine it or did Desiree say in this mornings interview that she didn't know about Terri's DUI?

No ~ IIRC you didn't imagine it, I hope this will bring full disclosure with Desiree and Tony in regards to what went on in the  Horman home with the only exception being LE asked for it not to be shared. To be blindsided on top of everything else must have been like a wave that knocked her off her feet, I can't even imagine 

The dui was way back in 2005 and she just found out about it? See now that is not right. Desiree had a right to all information regarding her son and his living arrangments. Kaine had no right to withhold that information

IMO - Desiree should have known about the mentally unstable, passing-out drunk part, too (if true)...that didn't happen either.  Desiree was blindsided when Kaine's court filing hit the news. 

Question:  does any know - Kaine's accusations about Terri being a pssing-out drunk - what happens if Terri's attorneys were to assert that Kaine's statements are not true and requests that Kaine "prove it"?

[islandmonkey]

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

I'm not blaming Kaine, his conscience will torture him for the rest of his life, my opinion is nothing but an opinion.  However, I do not like how he is speaking out of both sides of his mouth.  He is coming across as unbelievable, it appears he is a "win at any cost" kind of guy.  First with Desiree, and now with Terri.  That's my opinion, no hatred or blame, just what I see. 

Speaking of things I don't believe, IIRC right after he left the house with Kitty he was asked or he told someone that she never asked about her mother........I find that hard to believe and he stated it again today, Kitty has no clue what her mom is other than her mom, so these little blurbs IMO make him come across as less credible, not that I believe he had anything to do with Kyron disappearing but ITA about the "win at all cost" appearance, I was married to someone like that and he spoke out of both sides of his mouth too, but his bit him in his @ss when he got on the stand he was obliterated.

Yes, I don't think she wouldn't ask about her mother.  Children love their parents, even when they're evil.

What if she saw what happened to Kyron and is talking?

What would she have been in months at the time, IIRC about 17 months? I can't recall that far back sadly, so I wonder if she could even have enough vocabulary to talk about it (although from what I remember girls vocab starts earlier and is more proficient than boys).....

The fact that she had Kitty IMO makes me believe even more that Kyron was lured out and didn't leave with Terri , or maybe it's just beyond my imagination to consider a mother "disappearing" a child with another one with her, my mind can't go there even though I know it's happened before.

I would bet traumatic events can be recalled by some.  I can remember one from 3 and really not a horrible horrible thing - just traumatic for a 3 yr old.  I related the story to my mother exactly how it happened and she was present and could not believe I remembered it so clearly years later.  So who knows?  Sometimes the mind protects us until we are ready.

As much as I'd like this resolved I sure hope not for Kiara's sake.  That would be awful IMO.

I certainly agree a 3yr old or even a 2+ yr old would remember, just not sure a 17 mos old could recall anything except trauma IYKWIM, not able to verbalize it if they remembered it correctly. I agree with you about Kiara and resolution, sometimes it's more painful for the one left/harmed to have to relive it in front of strangers that would be awfully sad.... I just pray she either was asleep or there was an accomplice and she witnessed nothing (that sounds bad when I type it out, but I think you get what I mean). Just a tragic and sad case all around.

[sassifrass]

One of the things that Kaine said was that Kiara still goes in Kyrons room to sit on the bean bag chair and reads a book. Do you think if she witnessed TH harming Kyron she would feel comfortable in there? You know what I mean, if she saw Kyron being harmed wouldn't that distress her by being in there?

Young children have a way of associating visuals with reality and react on that. JMO