Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #35 11/11/10 - 11/21/10

[Kokos Cat]

Kokos Cat: You are confusing a restraining order (RO) with a protection order (FAPA). Only a FAPA RO requires the threat of abuse or physical harm. The restraining order is a routine filing with a divorce that prevents the removal of the children from the current home. It does not prevent contact with the children.

http://www.co.cowlitz.wa.us/clerk/dvprot.htm

The link is from Washington state, but the distinction between a restraining order an a protection order in Oregon is the same. I have no idea which type of order Desiree used or the details included in her filing. Not all restraining orders are the same. The problems you had and were trying to solve with the use of a restraining order or protection order are not necessarily similar to that of Desiree; and therefore, the judge's advice to you in your situation may not be relevant to her situation. It would be faulty logic to assume there is an issue of domestic violence in her situation.
[/quote]

I see... thanks again.  My apologies, I misspoke. 
I can't get the link to work, however.    It would be good to find similar info for Oregon.

K.Cat

[Kokos Cat]

I agree monchichi about that website...my main point was the restraining order DY filed on KH...before custody and the divorce was resolved.

Yeah, that makes you wonder.  I don't know if that is a standard move in divorces/custody issues.

I have heard ppl say that before, but in TN it wasn't.....for me anyway. Once I learned a few more things after my POS moved out I got an injunction (or I should say my atty did for me) so he couldn't see Ave's, but not an RO. Maybe things are different in Oregon and since someone stated divorce files are public there it shouldn't be that hard to find out (here, believe it or not they are not public....even in the Sunshine state~go figure)

Hi guys, sorry this was pulled from waaaay back in the thread...

Restraining orders are not that easy to get in Oregon.  The spouse has to be afraid for THEIR life, or be beaten, etc.  You can't get a typical RO to protect your children, either.  I tried.  The judge told me flat out, that I could not, only if I was afraid for my own life.  When I asked him what I could do protect my daughter, he said, "File for divorce and get a custody order in place."

So... for DY to get a RO protecting her from KH?  There had to be some physical violence or threats of physical violence against her at Kaine's hand. 

Kokos Cat: You are confusing a restraining order (RO) with a protection order (FAPA). Only a FAPA RO requires the threat of abuse or physical harm. The restraining order is a routine filing with a divorce that prevents the removal of the children from the current home. It does not prevent contact with the children.

http://www.co.cowlitz.wa.us/clerk/dvprot.htm

The link is from Washington state, but the distinction between a restraining order an a protection order in Oregon is the same. I have no idea which type of order Desiree used or the details included in her filing. Not all restraining orders are the same. The problems you had and were trying to solve with the use of a restraining order or protection order are not necessarily similar to that of Desiree; and therefore, the judge's advice to you in your situation may not be relevant to her situation. It would be faulty logic to assume there is an issue of domestic violence in her situation.

Oops, my last post should have included Nicu's last statement in quotes, as it appears above.

Thanks to Nicu for the clarification. 
 

[Kokos Cat]

hi monkeys... i have a questipm, did kein go to the gym in the first weeks of his dissapereance

Somewhere there is a picture of both Kaine and Terri by their car at the gym. I think it was very early on.

thank you, no rose, i was talking with my hubby about kyron and my 8 year old girl made a comment abot terry writting on fb about her kitty and then she going to the gym with the kid is missing..and then she told me that kaine was in the gym too....then she asked her dad if he will go to the gym if she is missing.. ......
i thought that kh didn't go to the gym...my kid was right....

This was on the news.  There is a video somewhere... the reporter approaches TH and KH as they are getting into TH's red mustang after being at the gym.  The reporter's voice in the background is saying something like, "I'm so sorry... is there anything we can do?"
TH and KH completely snub him, and refuse to answer.  So friggin' weird, in my book!  It was like "no comment", and at such a time?!?  WTH is that???

[starwynn]

For the life of me, I don't understand how Kaine can make allegations of Terri being a passed out drunk- and yet being the allegedly responsible parent, did nothing to rectify the situation- either by removing the children from Terri's care, or seeking assistance to deal with the alcoholisim as a family.  I'm not aware of any action on Kaine's part. 

I don't doubt there was a situation where perhaps Terri did pass out drunk, but I doubt it is to the extent that Kaine is claiming.  For instance, the night of her birthday party.  Terri wouldn't be the first person to do this, nor the last.

So, I have some issues with what Kaines been saying.

This is exactly how I feel.  I have a really big problem with the allegations he tends to be focusing very very strongly on TH.  I mean granted, she seems to be the obvious choice.  But to totally discount the possibility that it was someone else, to me, seems like shooting one's self in the foot!  If my baby were out there missing, I know it would be time-wasting to consider absolutely ALL situations, but you have to consider at least more than one.

To me, it seems like he just has a vendetta against TH (maybe rightly so) for everything.  I would NOT want to be on his hate-list.  While he seemed meek, and caring, all touchy touchy with TH for example at the first press conference where he and Desiree speak, if you watch it again the only person who really seems to be torn up is Desiree.  That's understandable on the part of her current husband, who hasn't spent all of Kyron's life with Kyron.  It just struck me as odd, a bit of a red flag.

And now - the more he opens his mouth, the more I think "wow you're not at all like who you presented yourself to be at first - and I kinda understand why you and Desiree are divorced now".  How awful is that of me?  But still, I feel it, and I wonder at it.  I, too, believe he had seen Desiree's interview where she talks about the emails and about how she is upset with decisions that Kaine is making in his life.  I found it notable that she uses present tense, not past tense to describe the time where he apparently sat by (or ignored his own instincts) when a supposedly drunken TH passed out on the couch.  I would like to have asked her "WHICH actions he's taking in his life now..."  Letting her find out about drunken-TH via media, not personally?  Airing dirty laundry via divorce papers?  The way he's handling that, or the way he's handling the case (or even her)?  Really makes me wonder.

Another thing I've been wondering - at some point, no matter how strong you want to be, it's natural for the mind to just say "you know there's no more hope left, right?".  This is usually the part where we interject with a "No - I'm NOT going to think that way, I will not give up on you Kyron."  But at the back of the mind, the logical and reasoning mind has to still be nagging.  It's very natural that two different people will come to that conclusion or that conflict within themselves at different times.  I've been watching to see if there would be a schism in the oddly united front between exes at some point, and what would cause it.  I wonder if this is the start of it.

[starwynn]

Oh, and forgive me if this has already been answered     but did they ever do anything about TH supposedly trying to hire someone to kill Kaine?  I mean, that damning bombshell dropped, but as soon as the dust cleared from it I don't recall having seen anything else.  You would think that if there were any proof of someone trying to kill someone else, she'd have some charges drawn up on her, wouldn't you?

[sebastian]

One more theory then I have to finish some work at home, I am thinking it's possible that after Kitty was born Terri could have felt overwhelmed partially due to PPD (IF she did indeed have it, but IIRC I thought KH stated she did), and her feeling overwhelmed by taking care of three kids and only 2 were hers made her resent Kyron even though that is illogical I am just tossing this theory out there, we know she wrote emails about hating Kyron, and talked to Desiree about taking Kyron to live with her, even having Kyron call her when he was upset........so, when she found out Kaine nixed this is it possible she concocted some elaborate kidnapping never meaning for any harm to come to him, but knowing it would have been enough to fuel Desiree to go to court and file for custody instead of just asking Kaine. It would certainly fall into a change in circumstance as she could say the school wasn't safe, etc etc etc.......but something went terribly wrong, and she (Terri) really doesn't know where Kyron is, just that she set a plan in motion. I know it sounds crazy, but am tossing out ideas and after learning what we did this week, this one popped into my head. Prolly not since I am a KISS (keep it simple stupid) type person myself but the KISSS theory didn't apply to Danielle VD, so what do y'all think?


KOKO's CAT~I live one Pensacola Beach, FL and we STILL have the A/C on, grrrr. While I don't like very cold weather as I get older, I would love a few weeks in the 60 degree range so I could open the windows ......

Hi Island Monkey,
I used to live in Pensacola years ago, small world! I read somewhere that Kaine would go to work and then work out at the gym after work for a couple of hours and then not get home until late at night. No sure if it is true, but again, he must not have been TO CONCERNED about the welfare of his children. Whoever took Kyron is the one that is ultimately responsible. Having said this, we see cases over and over again, where the parents miss or ignore the warning signs. It is very frustrating to say the least. The children are the ones who pay the cost. I have always had a hinky feeling about Kaine and Terri but Desiree breaks my heart.

[Gypsy DD]

cw, I see what you are saying with the word hostage, I still see it as being not the best choice of words to express yourself.

 "I’m not going to hold myself hostage for this event that happened to him"

IMO, IMO, IMO: Sounds disconnected, sounds selfish, sounds like Kaine is more concerned
about thinking about himself and how this is affecting Kaine than being concerned for the
"event" (strange word to use) that happened to him (can't even say Kyron...he didn't use
the word Kyron in his note to Intel employees either).

There is a disconnect.  It does seem strange.  It does make me think about his words.

Me too

Not to berate the point..but I have listened to the interviews..and did not hear nor read where this is a direct quote from Kaine. 

Does anyone have a link to this qu

[no rose colored glasses]

starwynn  WELCOME  and you can't stop yourself from feeling things that bother you, I have several things in this case and other cases that this is how I feel and can't change my thoughts on it. Right or wrong that is how I feel.

[Gypsy DD]

GypsyDD there was another interview done, I think CBS, that Kaine says he will not be held hostage.

I listened and watched both ABC /GMA and the CBS interview and he doesn't say anything like that in either.

[fatcatlurker]

GypsyDD there was another interview done, I think CBS, that Kaine says he will not be held hostage.

I listened and watched both ABC /GMA and the CBS interview and he doesn't say anything like that in either.

Hello Gypsy!  I did not hear him say it in the video either but he is quoted in the news article here as saying it;

http://www.katu.com/news/local/109138704.html

“We’re dealing with someone who I referred to earlier as a professional at misdirection and deceit. That’s exactly what (Terri’s) all about,” Kaine said. “And sitting here and trying to blame an individual for that, aside from the individual who carried out whatever happened to Kyron that day – it’s unnecessary. It doesn’t need to be done, but I understand. That if it helps people to put blame on me for this then go right ahead if it makes you feel better as long as you get right back out and start looking for him then that’s fine. But I don’t hold myself responsible. I’m not going to hold myself hostage for this event that happened to him.”

________________________________________________________________________

[islandmonkey]

GypsyDD there was another interview done, I think CBS, that Kaine says he will not be held hostage.

I listened and watched both ABC /GMA and the CBS interview and he doesn't say anything like that in either.

It's at about the one minute mark in this story, there is a written story and a vid, so you have to go to the video to hear it......I agree, if I had only heard if from reporters I wouldn't believe it as it seems going way back on these cases, they aren't always reporting exactly what comes out later on video and are loose with facts:

http://www.katu.com/news/local/109138704.html?tab=video

[Tracygirl]

http://www.katu.com/news/local/109138704.html?tab=video

".... But, I don't hold myself responsible and I am not going to hold myself hostage for this event that happend to him."

He says this at 1.03 min.

[islandmonkey]

One more theory then I have to finish some work at home, I am thinking it's possible that after Kitty was born Terri could have felt overwhelmed partially due to PPD (IF she did indeed have it, but IIRC I thought KH stated she did), and her feeling overwhelmed by taking care of three kids and only 2 were hers made her resent Kyron even though that is illogical I am just tossing this theory out there, we know she wrote emails about hating Kyron, and talked to Desiree about taking Kyron to live with her, even having Kyron call her when he was upset........so, when she found out Kaine nixed this is it possible she concocted some elaborate kidnapping never meaning for any harm to come to him, but knowing it would have been enough to fuel Desiree to go to court and file for custody instead of just asking Kaine. It would certainly fall into a change in circumstance as she could say the school wasn't safe, etc etc etc.......but something went terribly wrong, and she (Terri) really doesn't know where Kyron is, just that she set a plan in motion. I know it sounds crazy, but am tossing out ideas and after learning what we did this week, this one popped into my head. Prolly not since I am a KISS (keep it simple stupid) type person myself but the KISSS theory didn't apply to Danielle VD, so what do y'all think?


KOKO's CAT~I live one Pensacola Beach, FL and we STILL have the A/C on, grrrr. While I don't like very cold weather as I get older, I would love a few weeks in the 60 degree range so I could open the windows ......

Hi Island Monkey,
I used to live in Pensacola years ago, small world! I read somewhere that Kaine would go to work and then work out at the gym after work for a couple of hours and then not get home until late at night. No sure if it is true, but again, he must not have been TO CONCERNED about the welfare of his children. Whoever took Kyron is the one that is ultimately responsible. Having said this, we see cases over and over again, where the parents miss or ignore the warning signs. It is very frustrating to say the least. The children are the ones who pay the cost. I have always had a hinky feeling about Kaine and Terri but Desiree breaks my heart.

  Hi Sebastian, yes it is a small world....I actually work in P-Cola right across from the Fish House on P-Cola Bay, I chose to live at the beach vs P-Cola because of the school and it was cheaper than Gulf Breeze, but we love it here

The gym thing puzzled me unless LE told them to do this for some reason, I just don't know but that is the only thing that makes sense to me. ITA about the ultimate responsibility being on who took Kyron and if it wasn't Terri but she was behind it, then the one who planned it too (and I do think she's the one who planned it but am trying not to get tunnel vision). Also, funny you mentioned it, I just posted last night that parents need to listen to their kids, look for warning signs and clues as they do pay the cost when they are missed and it happens more often than not My gut instict about Kaine was that he was controlling, and it was his way or the highway IMOO, also the Intel memo never sat right with me, as for Desiree yes watching her is heartbreaking to the point of tears.

[Tracygirl]

One more theory then I have to finish some work at home, I am thinking it's possible that after Kitty was born Terri could have felt overwhelmed partially due to PPD (IF she did indeed have it, but IIRC I thought KH stated she did), and her feeling overwhelmed by taking care of three kids and only 2 were hers made her resent Kyron even though that is illogical I am just tossing this theory out there, we know she wrote emails about hating Kyron, and talked to Desiree about taking Kyron to live with her, even having Kyron call her when he was upset........so, when she found out Kaine nixed this is it possible she concocted some elaborate kidnapping never meaning for any harm to come to him, but knowing it would have been enough to fuel Desiree to go to court and file for custody instead of just asking Kaine. It would certainly fall into a change in circumstance as she could say the school wasn't safe, etc etc etc.......but something went terribly wrong, and she (Terri) really doesn't know where Kyron is, just that she set a plan in motion. I know it sounds crazy, but am tossing out ideas and after learning what we did this week, this one popped into my head. Prolly not since I am a KISS (keep it simple stupid) type person myself but the KISSS theory didn't apply to Danielle VD, so what do y'all think?


KOKO's CAT~I live one Pensacola Beach, FL and we STILL have the A/C on, grrrr. While I don't like very cold weather as I get older, I would love a few weeks in the 60 degree range so I could open the windows ......

Hi Island Monkey,
I used to live in Pensacola years ago, small world! I read somewhere that Kaine would go to work and then work out at the gym after work for a couple of hours and then not get home until late at night. No sure if it is true, but again, he must not have been TO CONCERNED about the welfare of his children. Whoever took Kyron is the one that is ultimately responsible. Having said this, we see cases over and over again, where the parents miss or ignore the warning signs. It is very frustrating to say the least. The children are the ones who pay the cost. I have always had a hinky feeling about Kaine and Terri but Desiree breaks my heart.

BBM
 

[Kat_Gram]

That could be, the police at first thought it was a kidnapping. If that is the case wonder what evidence or statements that may have let the police to think that, if indeed that is what they thought. Otherwise wouldn't know why the police would have stayed at the house, maybe they thought Kyron had wondered away?

I think I remember that there was a global text message sent out that evening and the FBI was brought in the first night. There was media in the Portland area that started to report it early the next day. For about the first week anyone from the family did not make an appearance.
Tony was staying in the house also and he started to pick up on something hinky from Terri.
His instincts I would trust given his background and the time spent in the house with them from the get go.
They probably didn't know what they were dealing with.
..
I am sort of on the fence still. If she had these bad feelings towards Kyron, that might have been what dinged the lie detector. If we knew exactly what they asked and what came back as deceptive, then I could have an opinion based on something other than vague uneasy feelings about Terri. Where did these bad feelings about Terri come from ? Most of them came from Kaine. Not all, but a good portion.   
..
No one would or could expect Kaine to feel guilty if he tried to get into a normal routine. He does have the little girl to look after and he can't just work and mope around the house. She has to have a life too. If someone gets a pix of him smiling, well maube he is trying to go on.

[islandmonkey]

That could be, the police at first thought it was a kidnapping. If that is the case wonder what evidence or statements that may have let the police to think that, if indeed that is what they thought. Otherwise wouldn't know why the police would have stayed at the house, maybe they thought Kyron had wondered away?

I think I remember that there was a global text message sent out that evening and the FBI was brought in the first night. There was media in the Portland area that started to report it early the next day. For about the first week anyone from the family did not make an appearance.
Tony was staying in the house also and he started to pick up on something hinky from Terri.
His instincts I would trust given his background and the time spent in the house with them from the get go.
They probably didn't know what they were dealing with.
..
I am sort of on the fence still. If she had these bad feelings towards Kyron, that might have been what dinged the lie detector. If we knew exactly what they asked and what came back as deceptive, then I could have an opinion based on something other than vague uneasy feelings about Terri. Where did these bad feelings about Terri come from ? Most of them came from Kaine. Not all, but a good portion.   
..
No one would or could expect Kaine to feel guilty if he tried to get into a normal routine. He does have the little girl to look after and he can't just work and mope around the house. She has to have a life too. If someone gets a pix of him smiling, well maube he is trying to go on.

ITA with your entire post, and I do agree that he has Kitty to take care of and she is going to pick up on cues no matter what he does, but he does need to move on in certain ways so she has somewhat of a normal life (not meaning that he should not look for Kyron, plead for his return and keep his face out there ), but move on like take her to a zoo, laugh while watching a movie with her, spend time with her on things that are normal for lack of a better word. I also hope she is in some sort of play therapy that is deemed appropriate for her age, and that he is too...anger is a healthier emotion than pity and guilt, I just wanted his words to not be directed to Desiree's presser or stmts or her period.

Regarding the LD, I remembr Blink posting something a while back and I thought (although I can't be certain) that her deception was not in regards to "did you kill Kyron or have anything to do with it", but something else.....but I don't know if that has been verified or was a theory, I guess I need to look back.

How have you been doing Kat-Gram? I think of you alot and have said many prayers 

[Desdemona]

May God bless Kyron and bring a swift and mighty justice to the person or persons responsible for this child's disappearance.

May God bless Kyron's hurting family in the loss of a precious and beloved little boy, and in the pain caused by the unfathomable evil that has been perpetrated against him and them.

May God bless all those dedicated souls who diligently, courageously continue to search for Kyron against all odds.

May God bless the law enforcement and legal servants are working so very hard to investigate the facts and build a solid case against the perpetrator(s).

May God bless the hearts and minds of those in the public and here at SM who care about Kyron and who seek so avidly for answers when there are not many answers to be had.

May Kyron be found, may the truth be uncovered, may justice be served, may healing and comfort rain down on those who are hurting.

Amen.

IMO, only 1/4 of Kyron's parents is deserving of anything but our prayers and sympathy.  That would be the one with the failed lie detector tests, the Swiss-cheese alibi, the trail of pathological lies and deception, and the expensive high-powered defense attorney (when she hasn't even been charged with a crime).  The other 3/4 of Kyron's parents deserves only our sympathy and compassion and prayers.  JMO.

[Monkey King]

With all the testimony given to the Grand Jury, WHY hasn't Terri been arrested?

Is the GJ even in session?

All the monies spent on this investigation.  Any answers?

What has always irritated me about this case has been all the efforts that went into going after Terri, to the exclusion of anyone else.

Whoever the perp was, he had a very good lead on the police, as Kyron wasn't reported missing until he was to get off the bus at home after school let out. 
That's a LONG time when you're talking about a missing, unaccounted for child.

If it was someone other than Terri, the perp is laughing it up for sure.

What happened to the sexting?  Wasn't that phone number sexting with Terri registered to Kaine, but used by Mike Cook?

And now the emails.  Where did they come from?  Why does Kaine have them, wouldn't that be considered evidence in a missing child's case? 

Since they are electronic communications, how can it be proven who the author is?  The same thing with the sexting.  How can it be proven who the author and recipient are without a doubt?

How much more of this character assasination are we going to listen to?

MFH + Sexting + Hateful emails + Drunk 24/7 = my suspicion of things aren't always what they appear to be.

Terri was privy to the workings of this extended family.  Terri knew these people personally.  When this case first broke wasn't it Terri asking the public to not jump to conclusions since the public doesn't know the "facts"?  People attacked her.  Why should she try to rationalize and explain to people her side when anything she'd say would be twisted around?  I wouldn't talk either.  I'd lawyer up as well.

I have no clue of who did what, I'm like the rest of you guys, I just want to see the responsible party held accountable and find out what happened to this little frog man.
I could care less about the adults.  They all made mistakes with Kyron. 

No parent is perfect.  It's not just this family, unfortunately, children disappear everyday and it knows no boundries- rich or poor, ethnicity, male or female. 

It's sickening. 

Kaine can say all he wants in the media, the fact is~

Kyron's family is forever changed.

Remember the letter someone left at the Wall of Hope?  When Kaine stated in the media that the house was "safe", it was just Kaine and Kiara at the house, I believe he was speaking directly to the writer of that note.

Kaine was the focus of that letter.  Desiree was not mentioned, neither was Terri.

[Brandi]

May God bless Kyron and bring a swift and mighty justice to the person or persons responsible for this child's disappearance.

May God bless Kyron's hurting family in the loss of a precious and beloved little boy, and in the pain caused by the unfathomable evil that has been perpetrated against him and them.

May God bless all those dedicated souls who diligently, courageously continue to search for Kyron against all odds.

May God bless the law enforcement and legal servants are working so very hard to investigate the facts and build a solid case against the perpetrator(s).

May God bless the hearts and minds of those in the public and here at SM who care about Kyron and who seek so avidly for answers when there are not many answers to be had.

May Kyron be found, may the truth be uncovered, may justice be served, may healing and comfort rain down on those who are hurting.

Amen.

IMO, only 1/4 of Kyron's parents is deserving of anything but our prayers and sympathy.  That would be the one with the failed lie detector tests, the Swiss-cheese alibi, the trail of pathological lies and deception, and the expensive high-powered defense attorney (when she hasn't even been charged with a crime).  The other 3/4 of Kyron's parents deserves only our sympathy and compassion and prayers.  JMO.

BBM

 

[islandmonkey]

I didn't hear this in the video and wonder WTH is this, a misprint????? Has to be, I can't imagine he still wishes she was by his side and also I hate that they put in print that Kyron was "their son"......NO, he was Desiree and Kaine's son, not Terri's, more irresponsible reporting IMO

PORTLAND – Kaine Horman spoke out in a press conference this week to clarify some of the more contentious points in the legal battle between him and his estranged wife, Terri Horman.

Horman said he wished Terri was still by his side and still helping in the search for their son, Kyron, who has been missing for nearly six months. Horman said he knows wishing doesn't make it so

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Kaine-Horman-speaks-out-about-vicious-legal-battle-109227234.html

again, maybe I missed this in another statement but never heard it in that interview and so I do wonder why they would even print that