Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #35 11/11/10 - 11/21/10

[Nut44x4]

[paula513]

It is so nice to read the last couple pages of this thread and seeing people question and answer without attacking each other. That is so not the norm in some other places I've seen.A big  for you guys.

[fatcatlurker]

Laura Rackner, filed an affidavit alleging that Terri failed lie detector tests about her knowledge of Kyron’s whereabouts.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=128881904149727200

[Monkey King]

Laura Rackner, filed an affidavit alleging that Terri failed lie detector tests about her knowledge of Kyron’s whereabouts.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=128881904149727200

Good find, FatCat.

If the LD results are inadmissable, obviously Rackner is trying to get the information of the criminal investigation into the divorce proceeding.

Before there should be any severing of ties between Terri and Kiara, the criminal  investigation needs to wrap up.  It needs closure.  IF they are going to charge Terri, which I don't understand why the GJ didn't give a True Bill or No Bill as of yet, they need to sh!t or get off the pot already!!

[cw618]

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=128881904149727200
snip
After Kaine filed for divorce in late June, Bunch filed a request on behalf of Terri to modify the order to allow supervised visits. In response, Kaine’s attorney, Laura Rackner, filed an affidavit alleging that Terri failed lie detector tests about her knowledge of Kyron’s whereabouts

if the Q was asked i wonder how it was phrased, IIRC, the Qs have to be
phrased for Y&N answers

like; do you know where kyron is/at
did you kidnap/take kyron from school
do you know how kyron left the school/that date

[cw618]

ive always wondered about the boy that lived up the lane,kyrons friend
did kaine talk to him,when he got off the bus,and did the boys parents ever
meet the bus too, or did he walk with TH to the horman drive,then he walked
on home on his own
i hope IARC that a friend of kyron lived on the same lane

[Kat_Gram]

I agree Monkey King.
I don't understand what LE is doing here. Giving sext emails to Kaine, showing Desiree emails. This then becomes public and is used in divorce motions. ??
.....
I just went back to page 34 and re read the email that was published. It sounded to me that Terri really resented Kaine and money and her lack of it was part of the issue. There was nothing about hurting Kyron in what was published. And yet, when her divorce attorney wants the 911 call from Dec 26, he can't get it because it is part of an on going onvestigation. They will only release damaging to Terri stuff. And never come out and do anything in a public fashion.
..
I am not taking up for Terri here. She sounds as if she felt like a hostage ( hate using that word ) to Kaine in that relaionship and the balance of power was determined by who had the money, job things in his name. Nothing to do with Kyron, but how was Terri to get a divorce from Kaine ? Lawyers cost money. She had none. And it doesn't sound as if she felt she had any freedom either. If she was depressed with PPD, anything is possible in the situation she was in, but I just can't see her plotting to do something to Kyron to fix up her life that she didn't like. That could change as time goes on and more is released.
..

[fatcatlurker]

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=128881904149727200
snip
After Kaine filed for divorce in late June, Bunch filed a request on behalf of Terri to modify the order to allow supervised visits. In response, Kaine’s attorney, Laura Rackner, filed an affidavit alleging that Terri failed lie detector tests about her knowledge of Kyron’s whereabouts

if the Q was asked i wonder how it was phrased, IIRC, the Qs have to be
phrased for Y&N answers

like; do you know where kyron is/at
did you kidnap/take kyron from school
do you know how kyron left the school/that date

Just another aside question/thought regarding LDT.  I've always thought/read that you were given the questions or the jist of questions prior to the test.  Does anyone know if that's true?  Rob?

I can't remember when the first LDT was given to Terri.  Anyone know the date?

I just brought it forward and found it interesting because I repeatedly hear it was a lifestyle/LS question she failed on.  I just wonder what LE could of known regarding the LS or Terri's lifestyle for the initial ldt.

The first news article I can find about her taking LDT is dated June 18.  MFH failed sting went down June 26?   I think Kaine has stated he & DY/TY cleared in the first four days? 

And yes CW that is my understanding as well on Y/N questions.  Helluva note to fail on a simple yes or no question.   Not just in this case but all cases.

 

[fatcatlurker]

I agree Monkey King.
I don't understand what LE is doing here. Giving sext emails to Kaine, showing Desiree emails. This then becomes public and is used in divorce motions. ??
.....
I just went back to page 34 and re read the email that was published. It sounded to me that Terri really resented Kaine and money and her lack of it was part of the issue. There was nothing about hurting Kyron in what was published. And yet, when her divorce attorney wants the 911 call from Dec 26, he can't get it because it is part of an on going onvestigation. They will only release damaging to Terri stuff. And never come out and do anything in a public fashion.
..
I am not taking up for Terri here. She sounds as if she felt like a hostage ( hate using that word ) to Kaine in that relaionship and the balance of power was determined by who had the money, job things in his name. Nothing to do with Kyron, but how was Terri to get a divorce from Kaine ? Lawyers cost money. She had none. And it doesn't sound as if she felt she had any freedom either. If she was depressed with PPD, anything is possible in the situation she was in, but I just can't see her plotting to do something to Kyron to fix up her life that she didn't like. That could change as time goes on and more is released.
..

Actually regarding the 911 calls Bunch wants; 

October 7, 2010
Bunch also contends he'd be at a major disadvantage because the state and police aren't sharing their investigative material, not even allowing them to obtain a copy of a 9-1-1 call Terri Horman made in December.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/10/terri_horman_willing_to_agree.html

November 12, 2010
Bunch also contends he'd be at a major disadvantage because the state and police aren't sharing their investigative material, not even allowing them to obtain a copy of a 9-1-1 call Terri Horman made in June, while providing investigative material to Kaine Horman. In October, Bunch asked the court to delay any divorce proceeding, and Judge Keith Meisenheimer pushed the matter back 90 days until Jan. 6, the next scheduled hearing.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_may_seek_sanction.html
___________________________________________________________________________
Somebody Snafu'ed here? 
I won't take up for Terri period.  However she does have a right to do what she is doing with that said I think it is all about Terri in a pressure cooker.  JMO. 

[fatcatlurker]

Though a judge already agreed to dismiss Terri Moulton Horman's motion to seek parenting time with her daughter, Kaine Horman's lawyer filed a 10-page response, threatening to ask the court to sanction Terri Horman if she refuses to testify in the pending divorce and child custody case.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_may_seek_sanction.html

____________________________________________________________

Legal ?  what the heck are "Sanctions"???  Anybody?

[Kat_Gram]

Oh, and I did notice how she twisted it so that Desiree wouldn't stay at home to look after Kyron. Kaine got custody back from Desiree because Desiree was in Canada being treated for kidney failure. Then, she was in debt for the medical treatments afterwards. Kaine didn't get custody because he was a better perent or anything like that, it was just because of necessity. And he had a gf who was more available for child care. She did get an education during that time.
Terri's perception seems "off".   

[sassifrass]

Though a judge already agreed to dismiss Terri Moulton Horman's motion to seek parenting time with her daughter, Kaine Horman's lawyer filed a 10-page response, threatening to ask the court to sanction Terri Horman if she refuses to testify in the pending divorce and child custody case.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_may_seek_sanction.html

____________________________________________________________

Legal ?  what the heck are "Sanctions"???  Anybody?

http://www.divorcedex.com/divorce/Sanctions-774.shtml


In divorce actions, sanctions sometimes happen when one party sabotages the legitimate efforts of the other during discovery. Many dependent spouses (who are very often wives) face an uphill fight with recalcitrant husbands who stonewall them about disclosing necessary financial information so that divorce may proceed and an equitable distribution of property can be made.

Discovery, which is the way the plaintiff prepares for a case by requesting pertinent information from the defendant, makes known what was previously unknown. It is often time consuming and expensive, but it is impossible to go to trial without it.

Discovery affords an angry spouse many opportunities to frustrate the legitimate movement of a divorce. He or she ignores interrogatories, skips depositions, fails to comply with the production of documents. Noncompliance frustrates preparation for trial or settlement, causing delays that run up attorney fees.

In the face of discovery violations, courts bring sanctions, which is punishment for improper behavior. When problems development during discovery, the first step -- and one required in some jurisdictions -- is for one lawyer to contact the other and attempt to resolve the problem without sanctions. That failing, the next step is to file a motion to compel if the noncompliance persists. After a notice and hearing, the court may sanction the obstructing party.

As a general, noncompliance must be willful, not inadvertent or unintentional.

Courts consider factors in the selection of the appropriate sanction. The include the degree of willfulness or bad faith; the reason for noncompliance; the significance of the information in question; the impact of the violation, its duration and the number of violations; the effectiveness of the sanctions in bringing about the desired result; and the part, if any, opposing counsel may have played in the problem.

In imposing sanctions, courts seek a punishment that fits the crime. The most severe sanction is the denial to contest, generally by striking the pleading of the offending spouse and entering a default judgment. Less severe is denial of the right to present evidence. Courts also have the power to find a party in contempt. And finally courts may draw what is termed an "adverse inference" from the behavior of an uncooperative spouse and act accordingly in deciding a party’s credibility.

Some courts have considered discovery violations as a factor in distribution; other have not. A spouse’s noncompliance with discovery obligations or orders may be justification for awarding attorney fees to the victim spouse.

[fatcatlurker]

Sassifras - thank you.  So I guess that means it goes back to the money?  Terri wanted alimoney so Kaine says not until we get all assets on the table, I'm guessing here. 

[islandmonkey]

Though a judge already agreed to dismiss Terri Moulton Horman's motion to seek parenting time with her daughter, Kaine Horman's lawyer filed a 10-page response, threatening to ask the court to sanction Terri Horman if she refuses to testify in the pending divorce and child custody case.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_may_seek_sanction.html

____________________________________________________________

Legal ?  what the heck are "Sanctions"???  Anybody?

  Clueless here~when I hear the word sanction I think "withhold" or a political sanction (don't kow why)...but at this point what could they withhold from her other than what has been requested. Maybe it means "fine" in these terms, I just have no clue what LE is doing in regards to the information and withhholding the 911 call, alot of it just makes no sense to me.

[Monkey King]

So Kaine's attorney is trying to make both women, Desiree and Terri, look like incompetants and he's the dear, sweeet man who's the victim of both women.

Geesh!

I have a feeling this is going to backfire and open up a BIG can of worms!!

Rackner has to realize these below the belt tactics have repercussions AND her client will wind up with egg on his face.  I understand she has expertise is with custody cases, and she may very well be a great attorney, however, I think the Bunch/Houze combination will eat her up.

[islandmonkey]

Though a judge already agreed to dismiss Terri Moulton Horman's motion to seek parenting time with her daughter, Kaine Horman's lawyer filed a 10-page response, threatening to ask the court to sanction Terri Horman if she refuses to testify in the pending divorce and child custody case.

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_may_seek_sanction.html

____________________________________________________________

Legal ?  what the heck are "Sanctions"???  Anybody?

http://www.divorcedex.com/divorce/Sanctions-774.shtml


In divorce actions, sanctions sometimes happen when one party sabotages the legitimate efforts of the other during discovery. Many dependent spouses (who are very often wives) face an uphill fight with recalcitrant husbands who stonewall them about disclosing necessary financial information so that divorce may proceed and an equitable distribution of property can be made.

Discovery, which is the way the plaintiff prepares for a case by requesting pertinent information from the defendant, makes known what was previously unknown. It is often time consuming and expensive, but it is impossible to go to trial without it.

Discovery affords an angry spouse many opportunities to frustrate the legitimate movement of a divorce. He or she ignores interrogatories, skips depositions, fails to comply with the production of documents. Noncompliance frustrates preparation for trial or settlement, causing delays that run up attorney fees.

In the face of discovery violations, courts bring sanctions, which is punishment for improper behavior. When problems development during discovery, the first step -- and one required in some jurisdictions -- is for one lawyer to contact the other and attempt to resolve the problem without sanctions. That failing, the next step is to file a motion to compel if the noncompliance persists. After a notice and hearing, the court may sanction the obstructing party.

As a general, noncompliance must be willful, not inadvertent or unintentional.

Courts consider factors in the selection of the appropriate sanction. The include the degree of willfulness or bad faith; the reason for noncompliance; the significance of the information in question; the impact of the violation, its duration and the number of violations; the effectiveness of the sanctions in bringing about the desired result; and the part, if any, opposing counsel may have played in the problem.

In imposing sanctions, courts seek a punishment that fits the crime. The most severe sanction is the denial to contest, generally by striking the pleading of the offending spouse and entering a default judgment. Less severe is denial of the right to present evidence. Courts also have the power to find a party in contempt. And finally courts may draw what is termed an "adverse inference" from the behavior of an uncooperative spouse and act accordingly in deciding a party’s credibility.

Some courts have considered discovery violations as a factor in distribution; other have not. A spouse’s noncompliance with discovery obligations or orders may be justification for awarding attorney fees to the victim spouse.

Thank you~that refreshed my memory ASAP!!!! In my divorce, my ex wouldn't anwer the interrogatories but we never threatened sanctions, the judge compelled him to answer them as I had filed on Feb 14th and in July he still hadn't answered, so the judge put on record that he had until Sept 14th to answer and if he didn't I would win a default judgement (which I did), then the chit hit the fan and it took another 2 yrs, but I understand now.

[islandmonkey]

So Kaine's attorney is trying to make both women, Desiree and Terri, look like incompetants and he's the dear, sweeet man who's the victim of both women.

Geesh!

I have a feeling this is going to backfire and open up a BIG can of worms!!

Rackner has to realize these below the belt tactics have repercussions AND her client will wind up with egg on his face.  I understand she has expertise is with custody cases, and she may very well be a great attorney, however, I think the Bunch/Houze combination will eat her up.

Where are you reading that........I totally missed that the atty was also trying to make Desiree looks incompetent????? Geesh, if that's true you are right, a huge ugly can of worms because IIRC Desiree asked for custody back once she was thru with her treatment and on her feet, and he told her no from what I recall.........

[Kat_Gram]

This divorce will take a long time. And money for both sides.
Can Terri even work right now ? As if anyone would hire her. 

[Puzzler]

So Kaine's attorney is trying to make both women, Desiree and Terri, look like incompetants and he's the dear, sweeet man who's the victim of both women.

Geesh!

I have a feeling this is going to backfire and open up a BIG can of worms!!

Rackner has to realize these below the belt tactics have repercussions AND her client will wind up with egg on his face.  I understand she has expertise is with custody cases, and she may very well be a great attorney, however, I think the Bunch/Houze combination will eat her up.

IMO Rackner will NOT get any information with respect to the LD allowed in court.  Also, she may encounter some problems herself as an attorney trying to get this information on the record, as we all know that LD are NOT admissable in court. 

What is she thinking?

[Puzzler]

This divorce will take a long time. And money for both sides.
Can Terri even work right now ? As if anyone would hire her. 

KatGram - I think we've finally hit upon something that is a fact - yep - this divorce will take a long time - and money for both sides.