Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #35 11/11/10 - 11/21/10

[klaasend]

Thanks Brandi

[Joni97103]

He stated this in court documents:

6. It was common for Respondent to be visibly impaired from alcohol, i.e. slurring speech, staggering gait, etc... several nights a week. Often, Respondent would pass out on the couch around 7:00 or 8:00 p.m. after drinking heavily and would wake up on and off for the rest of the night. Sometimes Kiara would be up with Respondent rather than on a schedule. Respondent spent most nights sleeping on the living room couch with Kiara. Respondent would typically be passed out from heavily drinking. Kiara would be up past midnight playing and/or watching tv until I tried to intervene. Sometimes if I tried to help by putting Kiara to bed, Respondent would become verbally combative and seem offended. 

And now he says this:


He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic. If it wasn't until recently.....how could he know the following below

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

Yet...the passing out never got his attention?  Allowing the two baby children to be in an alcoholic's care never got his attention?  I wonder if Desiree is preparting to file a civil suit of her own...and not just against TH.

Novella - I was thinking this exact thing.  If she hid her problem so well and he didn't know until recently that she had been drinking so much, what did he think the drinking several nights a week and passing out on the couch was?  I'm not vilifying Kaine, although I don't care much for him, but this seems to be a pretty big contradiction, ya know?

[Puzzler]

Wow! Desiree has a lot to say. Dumps all over Kaine.

Her interview starts at 2:03. Total segment 6:44.

Kaas? Anyone? Can this be embedded in the thread? Thanks.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/40192247#40192247

Wow! I had to walk away from that after listening to it. My heart was just breaking for her. 

Some of the things that stood out in the interview:

She tried to get custody of Kyron about a year ago before he went missing. Terri telling Desiree, personally, that she wanted Desiree to take Kyron.

The emails that TH sent to friends stated, in great detail, her 'severe' hatred for Kyron because she believed he was the reason for the problems between her and Kaine.

She, Desiree, without a shadow of a doubt, believes Terri hated Kyron so much that she is not only capable of hurting Kyron, but she could have hurt him in the worst possible way. 

Okay, I've very far behind in reading and just reached this point, so if this has been discussed further...I apologize for being so behind.

Now, if all this is true and I have no reason to question Desiree, änd Desiree knew back then (a year before Kyron went missing) then why didn't Desiree get an attorney and move heaven and earth to get custody of Kyron.  Just because Kaine says it's not an option...doesn't mean a thing in my book.  I'm not blaming Desiree, DON'T misunderstand what I'm saying.  But I question "why" Desiree didn't try all means to get Kyron (if Desiree had the knowledge of how Terri felt, if Kyron wasn't happy).  Maybe my question has already been answered and I'll eventually get to it as I get caught up on reading the pages...but at this point..."WHY"? 

There's just something not right about this.  There's still more than we know. 

[klaasend]

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

[cw618]

not sure this vid has been posted, first on the list below vid box

Divers search for Kyron
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/mediacenter/default.aspx?videoId=18816@koin.web.entriq.net&navCatId=156

[novella]

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

I don't think anyone is placing the blame on Kaine or Desiree...Hindsight is 20/20.  I think what many are wondering is why the contradictory statements...not with Desiree...but with Kaine.  Why not tell Desiree...Look, I made some mistakes and this is what was going on...instead of Desiree having to find out about TH supposed drinking problem with the release of court documents.  Why make statements of TH being a falling down drunk that passes out on the couch in the court documents to "I had to put the pieces together" to figure out she had a problem with alcohol.  Why not allow Desiree to have Kyron if he knew that TH was a falling down drunk?  But this is all...WHY did it have to get to this point...the point of no return...the point where a child that was in an environment where he was endangered was allowed to be in that environment because the father did not think that falling down drunk and passing out on the couch a couple of times a week was a problem...yet it is in the court documents for custody of Kiara...it was.

I feel horrible for Desiree...my heart aches for her.  I can't even imagine the anger and heartache she is feeling...that we can see.

[Tamikosmom]

Wow! Desiree has a lot to say. Dumps all over Kaine.

Her interview starts at 2:03. Total segment 6:44.

Kaas? Anyone? Can this be embedded in the thread? Thanks.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/40192247#40192247

 

[novella]

And really the worst thing is...the whole custody issue with Kyron seems to be about control and lack of respect for the other parent.  I think some people are walking away with that feeling after seeing Desiree's interview and it does not sit well.  It makes people question the custody issue at hand because we are seeing someone convicted in the court of public opinion before that person has even been tried in a criminal court.  I know who appears guilty, but at the same time I am not willing to waive anyone's right to a fair trial.   

[islandmonkey]

I also want to say whomever rec'd those horrible emails must have been equally a POS if they didn't bring them to the attn of his Kaine and or/Desiree, what kind of person says that hate a 7yr old innocent precious child I can't wrap my head around that mindset and I guess I don't want to. Also, I wonder if those emails by some stretch of the imagination have spurred the new search, IIRC they are using side scanning sonar so it seems more specific than a ground search or a search that happened right after Kyron's disappearance. I pray they find him in this search....I just can't imagine how much more they can take with without some type of resolution.

[Curly]

Kaine's assertion that TH was a "master of deception" is pretty predictable...what's he going to say?...that he was too selfish, lazy, stupid, weak, etc. to notice the woman he allowed to be the primary caregiver of his son and daughter was a drunken, irresponsible manipulative mess of a human being.      He does not get a pass from me.  He lived with this woman for years.  This naivety does not compute with a man who controlled news conferences when his son went missing.     Nor does it compute with a man who told his ex-wife and son that a change in custody was not an option.  All, IMO.

look at this...

Young, interviewed on the Today Show this morning, said the emails revealed "a severe hatred of Kyron."

In the news conference, Kaine didn't address that issue directly, but he did talk about accusations in his court files that Terri Horman had a drinking problem.

He said it wasn't until recently, after conversations with friends and family and talking to people who know about alcoholism, that he said he realized she was an alcoholic.

He said she exhibited odd behavior but he didn't know what it meant.

"I had no idea what the problem was," he said.  "All of a sudden it comes right into focus."

He said "I think the alcoholism was the tip of the iceberg."

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/11/kaine_horman_says_he_didnt_rea.html

If Terri's alcohol abuse was news to Kaine, why did he say he'd find her passed out on the couch a few nights per week?
I don't get it.

Many years ago my husband and I had friends.  Every time we would get together the guy would fall asleep.  Didn't matter what we were doing, he would fall asleep.  Eat and sleep.  Turns out he was depressed, bored in his marriage and was escaping but was not drinking.  The couple divorced.  Now, if I were told later that he was also drinking I would never have known.  He was "passing out".

Interesting, Klaas. My first guess would have been narcolepsy, but depression fits.
Hope there's an arrest very soon as well.

[novella]

And looking at the Zahra case, LE would not even confirm if the jailhouse letters were EB's...so what purpose would LE have to show DY and KH those emails?  Wouldn't those emails be potential evidence at least to establish motive? 

[can]

Personally I hope they are about ready to arrest someone

I hope so too Klaas.

Things seem to be heating up with the new searches and LE disclosing the contents of Terri's emails about Kyron with Desiree.

I believe that sharing was a well thought out decision by LE.  They walk a fine line and it is always a question of how much should be released to a grieving parent.  Yet, for reasons yet unknown, LE gave that information to Desiree. 

[klaasend]

Personally I hope they are about ready to arrest someone

I hope so too Klaas.

Things seem to be heating up with the new searches and LE disclosing the contents of Terri's emails about Kyron with Desiree.

I believe that sharing was a well thought out decision by LE.  They walk a fine line and it is always a question of how much should be released to a grieving parent.  Yet, for reasons yet unknown, LE gave that information to Desiree. 

LE gave the information to Desiree and Kaine, not just Desiree.

[can]

Personally I hope they are about ready to arrest someone

I hope so too Klaas.

Things seem to be heating up with the new searches and LE disclosing the contents of Terri's emails about Kyron with Desiree.

I believe that sharing was a well thought out decision by LE.  They walk a fine line and it is always a question of how much should be released to a grieving parent.  Yet, for reasons yet unknown, LE gave that information to Desiree. 

LE gave the information to Desiree and Kaine, not just Desiree.

Yes I know Klaas.  Do you know if Kaine rec'd that info. on Friday?

[klaasend]

I have no idea when Kaine was made aware of the emails. 

[sassifrass]

IMO, you can go over the 'would a should a could a' all you want. My point is that Terri Moulton Hormon is the POI here. The past can not be changed.

This is all about getting that narcissist woman to tell the truth, and that truth would be, WTH is Kyron! 

[can]

thanks Klaas.

[cw618]

this could explain why kaine seemed odd,reserved in the beginning
maybe he thought at some point this is going to come out,then what!
because,maybe some of TH friends had expressed concern to kaine
over the emails so maybe he was aware, if he knew im sure he talked
to LE about it, maybe thats what  he was talking about,in his PC at the wall
when he some things in the home, DY might not be aware of but LE was
paraphrased, all very disturbing if true

DY
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/40192247#40180429
kaine
http://www.koinlocal6.com/content/mediacenter/default.aspx

[Puzzler]

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

I'm sure they both feel too horrible for words.  I DON'T doubt that for one second.

I'm not placing any blame on Desiree.  I just have a question about Desiree.

Why place blame on Kaine because Terri is the unstable one?  Well, he lived with Terri, he was aware of all the problems. He has scorched the woman to high heavens in court filings.  According to Desiree, he never shared any of that with Desiree.  I knew when I read the filings that Desiree was going to be livid.  She should be!  She has every right! It just hurts so bad to see her so destroyed.

According to Desiree, she never saw any indications of problems with alcohol.  Yes...IMO...there's a problem with Kaine keeping all that to himself..."if true"...when another bio parent is kept in the dark....especially when Desiree discussed Kyron being unhappy and wanting to stay with her.  If Terri was a passing-out drunk several nights a week...why wouldn't Kaine have worked out something with Desiree to ease the burden on Kyron"?  Kyron had to have been stressed out over all of this; yet, everyone says he was a happy little boy and always smiling. We know when a child's homelife isn't going well, it shows up in little ways...usually through school.  I think Kyron loved his mother and wanted to spend more time with her and Kaine wouldn't let it happen...no, it's not an option...even though it would have been better for Kyron - if what Kaine says in his court papers is true. (Repeat: I have no reason to not believe what Kaine said in his filings was true.)

Kaine says in court filings that Terri is a stumbling, speech slurring, passed-out drunk many nights of the week.  He questions her mental health, too.  Yet, he appeared to be fine with having Terri take care of both his children in her condition. 

If I were Desiree and I found out what Kaine has asserted in his court documents about the person who's been taking care of my child...what the "father" says about the person he let that care of my child, I would be upset beyond words.  Now we hear from Desiree that about a year and a half ago she approached Kaine about getting custody of Kyron and Kaine says it's not an option.  She did broach the subject. 

I do wonder why Desiree wasn't more assertive in trying to get custody of Kyron, because Desiree said today that Terri blamed Kyron for all Terri/Kaine's marriage problems and Terri didn't like Kyron and Kyron was unhappy, too.  Now...IMO...it's Desiree's business as to why she didn't go to court and fight for custody. 

It's just a crying shame to hear about all of this now because where Desiree was already in a fragile state....now that Kaine's court filings have been made public...can only make Desiree's mind set soooo much worse.  It's too sad for words.

And, Kaine...while I DO have deep sympathy for him because his son is missing...immense sympathy...I can't help but wonder about why he wouldn't even discuss with Desiree of her having custody of Kyron...or at least a little more custody ( some sort of compromise maybe) when Kaine KNEW what kind of home life Kyron was living (if everything in Kaine's court filings is true and I have no reason to believe it's not)...Kaine portrays a picture of a person (Terri) who should NEVER be left to take care of his son...especially if she's got any mental problems, is a passing-out nightly drunk, etc. 

According to Desiree, Kaine NEVER relayed any problems to her...he wouldn't...he didn't want to lose custody of Kyron.  However, does it mean that Kaine acted in the best interest of Kyron?  Well, that's a good question...IMO.

And....now....why would Terri do anything with Kyron on June 4....just when Kyron was getting ready to go stay with his mom for the summer...just when Kyron was going to be out of Terri's life for a while?  Huh??

[Gypsy DD]

What is the point of placing blame now on Kaine?  Terri is the unstable one and Terri is the one LE believes harmed Kyron.  Why place blame on Kaine or Desiree?  I'm sure they both feel horrible.

I don't think anyone is placing the blame on Kaine or Desiree...Hindsight is 20/20.  I think what many are wondering is why the contradictory statements...not with Desiree...but with Kaine.  Why not tell Desiree...Look, I made some mistakes and this is what was going on...instead of Desiree having to find out about TH supposed drinking problem with the release of court documents.  Why make statements of TH being a falling down drunk that passes out on the couch in the court documents to "I had to put the pieces together" to figure out she had a problem with alcohol.  Why not allow Desiree to have Kyron if he knew that TH was a falling down drunk?  But this is all...WHY did it have to get to this point...the point of no return...the point where a child that was in an environment where he was endangered was allowed to be in that environment because the father did not think that falling down drunk and passing out on the couch a couple of times a week was a problem...yet it is in the court documents for custody of Kiara...it was.

I feel horrible for Desiree...my heart aches for her.  I can't even imagine the anger and heartache she is feeling...that we can see.

I still believe that Terri was telling Kaine she ad PPD nad was taking medication..and he atrributed much of the behavior to that situation.