Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #35 11/11/10 - 11/21/10

[islandmonkey]

Did I imagine it or did Desiree say in this mornings interview that she didn't know about Terri's DUI?

No ~ IIRC you didn't imagine it, I hope this will bring full disclosure with Desiree and Tony in regards to what went on in the  Horman home with the only exception being LE asked for it not to be shared. To be blindsided on top of everything else must have been like a wave that knocked her off her feet, I can't even imagine 

The dui was way back in 2005 and she just found out about it? See now that is not right. Desiree had a right to all information regarding her son and his living arrangments. Kaine had no right to withhold that information

IMO - Desiree should have known about the mentally unstable, passing-out drunk part, too (if true)...that didn't happen either.  Desiree was blindsided when Kaine's court filing hit the news. 

Question:  does any know - Kaine's accusations about Terri being a pssing-out drunk - what happens if Terri's attorneys were to assert that Kaine's statements are not true and requests that Kaine "prove it"?

I have been asking that question and in regards to affadavits in general, do they have to be facts as you witnessed as mine was.....or do they allow supposition and speculation? I wish JessStar or some atty on SM would add their two cents....I was just watching that vid again when it hit me how many times she has been blindsided  I hope she has strong emotional support from Tony and family to help her thru this, I don't even know how anyone ever gets thru a situation so horrific.

[Puzzler]

Yes, Tony was going to take Kyron fishing, but I believe a trip to CA with Kaine was also planned.

For what it's worth - Kaine says in the presser that they split summers.  He had Kyron half the summer and Desiree half the summer.  And yes I remember a trip to CA with Kaine also.

I've read several places that this was the "first summer" that Desiree was going to have him for a period of time.

[Tracygirl]

I think Desiree was to have him on he 2nd half of the summer, I recall something about a houseboat in August.

I think Kaine was not being upfront and honest at first because he didn't want to risk custody of Kyron. If it came out that he allowed Terri to care for him while he witnessed her being drunk all the time, I think Desiree could win custody of Kyron. God I wish that was the case we were talking about? Who should Kyron live with now that he has been found? Kaine or Desiree? What I would give to argue that point...

If he didn't tell Desiree about the DUI nor did he tell her about the drinking problem he is now claiming, what other things is he not telling her? I bet this is what she is wondering too.
What did she mean, his choices he is now making? There is more, this is what I think so I am bracing myself. Right now, the only person I can trust is Desiree, so I am going with all she is saying.

[fatcatlurker]

JMO but I think Kaine is going to use whatever he has to keep the present child away from Terri Horman until this is resolved.  I personally can't say I blame him at this point.  Until or Unless she talked and cleared it in "my mind" that she was not involved in Kyron missing I'd throw everything I had at her to include the kitchen sink to protect the present child.  And I'm sure guilt over Kyron is pushing him forward on this.  All JMO.

I agree with you, but his attorney should know that TH's attorneys will beat him up on the stand if he tries to say she was all these things, yet he continued to leave Kiara in her care, why is he complaining now.  He can offer whatever excuse he wants to, but I can guarantee you her attorney will beat him up if he keeps contradicting himself.

I am sure the DA is overseeing every little thing that Kaine's attornies are doing in regards to Terri because they have a interest in it too.  I think or hope that they have a method to the madness so to speak that we do not see or know about yet ----- other than pressure on her.  They know her better than us hopefully they know what buttons to push to get what they are after.  Kaine has paid either way he has to lay it all out there regardless for Kyron. 

Just maybe after they have touched on every little fault of Terri's someone (helper/accomplice) will come out of the woodwork with something regarding Kyron.  That IMO is the prize we are all waiting for.

[Puzzler]

Did I imagine it or did Desiree say in this mornings interview that she didn't know about Terri's DUI?

No ~ IIRC you didn't imagine it, I hope this will bring full disclosure with Desiree and Tony in regards to what went on in the  Horman home with the only exception being LE asked for it not to be shared. To be blindsided on top of everything else must have been like a wave that knocked her off her feet, I can't even imagine 

The dui was way back in 2005 and she just found out about it? See now that is not right. Desiree had a right to all information regarding her son and his living arrangments. Kaine had no right to withhold that information

IMO - Desiree should have known about the mentally unstable, passing-out drunk part, too (if true)...that didn't happen either.  Desiree was blindsided when Kaine's court filing hit the news. 

Question:  does any know - Kaine's accusations about Terri being a pssing-out drunk - what happens if Terri's attorneys were to assert that Kaine's statements are not true and requests that Kaine "prove it"?

I have been asking that question and in regards to affadavits in general, do they have to be facts as you witnessed as mine was.....or do they allow supposition and speculation? I wish JessStar or some atty on SM would add their two cents....I was just watching that vid again when it hit me how many times she has been blindsided  I hope she has strong emotional support from Tony and family to help her thru this, I don't even know how anyone ever gets thru a situation so horrific.

Re: affidavits.  I'm not an attorney.  But, I can't imagine that a "court filing" would be allowable based on speculation and supposition.  I would think that with it being an official cour filing that it would be considered a sworn affidavit.  In other words, an assertion that this is the words in the filing are the truth.  I would think if a court allows supposition and speculation, that courts would run amok with worthless documents.   However, Kaine's filing is Kaine's filing.  It is supposed to be Kaine's side of things.  I'm very curious how this works.  If January comes and Terri/Kaine/Attorneys are before the judge and Terri takes the stand and says that's not true.  Then what?  Is the onus on the accuser (Kaine) to prove that what he asserts is true? 

 

[Tracygirl]

I would think a  child who witnesses her brother being killed, if she understood what was happening anyway, would show signs of not being ok. I worked in a child abuse center for a few years and never did I run across a child that was happy after witnessing abuse of a sibling.

My guess is she is too young though. I dont' think she would understand what she was seeing as a concept of pain and death. I would assume she wonders where her brother is, and where is that red haired lady that was around. I bet she is some what confused. I hope there is a good, solid person caring for her when Kaine is at work.

[Puzzler]

I think Desiree was to have him on he 2nd half of the summer, I recall something about a houseboat in August.

I think Kaine was not being upfront and honest at first because he didn't want to risk custody of Kyron. If it came out that he allowed Terri to care for him while he witnessed her being drunk all the time, I think Desiree could win custody of Kyron. God I wish that was the case we were talking about? Who should Kyron live with now that he has been found? Kaine or Desiree? What I would give to argue that point...

If he didn't tell Desiree about the DUI nor did he tell her about the drinking problem he is now claiming, what other things is he not telling her? I bet this is what she is wondering too.
What did she mean, his choices he is now making? There is more, this is what I think so I am bracing myself. Right now, the only person I can trust is Desiree, so I am going with all she is saying.

Agree....I, too, think there is more to come.  Who knows what the "choices his is making" means. 

Why was Kaine okay with having Terri take care of Kyron (taking into consideration all the things he stated about Terri in his affidavit he filed with the court)?

[Tracygirl]

Terri can take the stand plead the 5th and Kaine can be called and be crossed by Terri's attorney so in actuality, she can testify by not testifying and use Kaine.

I have to say, there are many reasons to believe Terri did this, but her staying silent in my opinion is not an admission of guilt or proof of her guilt, Kaine said that and I disagree.   

[islandmonkey]

I think Desiree was to have him on he 2nd half of the summer, I recall something about a houseboat in August.

I think Kaine was not being upfront and honest at first because he didn't want to risk custody of Kyron. If it came out that he allowed Terri to care for him while he witnessed her being drunk all the time, I think Desiree could win custody of Kyron. God I wish that was the case we were talking about? Who should Kyron live with now that he has been found? Kaine or Desiree? What I would give to argue that point...

If he didn't tell Desiree about the DUI nor did he tell her about the drinking problem he is now claiming, what other things is he not telling her? I bet this is what she is wondering too.
What did she mean, his choices he is now making? There is more, this is what I think so I am bracing myself. Right now, the only person I can trust is Desiree, so I am going with all she is saying.

Agree....I, too, think there is more to come.  Who knows what the "choices his is making" means. 

Why was Kaine okay with having Terri take care of Kyron (taking into consideration all the things he stated about Terri in his affidavit he filed with the court)?

I just listened AGAIN because I thought it was past tense, but you're right~she stated that about his choices and behovoir.....so, I am wondering if she is just wracked with grief and meant only one, or did she literally mean both. If that is the case I wonder what behavoir (other than not sharing about the family dynamics) she is alluding too?

TG~I think you are right about the affadavits, I rememeber they are notarized and sworn documents....but, I can't see Terri rebutting them since she won't talk.

[Puzzler]

Terri can take the stand plead the 5th and Kaine can be called and be crossed by Terri's attorney so in actuality, she can testify by not testifying and use Kaine.

I have to say, there are many reasons to believe Terri did this, but her staying silent in my opinion is not an admission of guilt or proof of her guilt, Kaine said that and I disagree.   

TG - TY

Interesting

[fatcatlurker]

Did I imagine it or did Desiree say in this mornings interview that she didn't know about Terri's DUI?

No ~ IIRC you didn't imagine it, I hope this will bring full disclosure with Desiree and Tony in regards to what went on in the  Horman home with the only exception being LE asked for it not to be shared. To be blindsided on top of everything else must have been like a wave that knocked her off her feet, I can't even imagine 

The dui was way back in 2005 and she just found out about it? See now that is not right. Desiree had a right to all information regarding her son and his living arrangments. Kaine had no right to withhold that information

IMO - Desiree should have known about the mentally unstable, passing-out drunk part, too (if true)...that didn't happen either.  Desiree was blindsided when Kaine's court filing hit the news. 

Question:  does any know - Kaine's accusations about Terri being a pssing-out drunk - what happens if Terri's attorneys were to assert that Kaine's statements are not true and requests that Kaine "prove it"?

Good question Puzzler.  That's why I keep wondering if some of this isn't being said to provoke Terri?  Or maybe to provoke someone else? 

[Tracygirl]

I think Desiree was to have him on he 2nd half of the summer, I recall something about a houseboat in August.

I think Kaine was not being upfront and honest at first because he didn't want to risk custody of Kyron. If it came out that he allowed Terri to care for him while he witnessed her being drunk all the time, I think Desiree could win custody of Kyron. God I wish that was the case we were talking about? Who should Kyron live with now that he has been found? Kaine or Desiree? What I would give to argue that point...

If he didn't tell Desiree about the DUI nor did he tell her about the drinking problem he is now claiming, what other things is he not telling her? I bet this is what she is wondering too.
What did she mean, his choices he is now making? There is more, this is what I think so I am bracing myself. Right now, the only person I can trust is Desiree, so I am going with all she is saying.

Agree....I, too, think there is more to come.  Who knows what the "choices his is making" means. 

Why was Kaine okay with having Terri take care of Kyron (taking into consideration all the things he stated about Terri in his affidavit he filed with the court)?

I don't know, everyone talks in circles and the press doesn't ask the right questions, imo

[monchichi]

I thought it was interesting in this article, Kaine said he thinks Kyron is alive, but it is really just a small bit of what he said and I am wondering if it was somehow taken out of context?  I have been getting the vibe from Kaine he thought the worst had happened. 

I have tried and tried to be optimistic but I am afraid my optimism has worn pretty thin.

here is the link to that article:

 http://www.katu.com/news/108250924.html

[Tracygirl]

Did I imagine it or did Desiree say in this mornings interview that she didn't know about Terri's DUI?

No ~ IIRC you didn't imagine it, I hope this will bring full disclosure with Desiree and Tony in regards to what went on in the  Horman home with the only exception being LE asked for it not to be shared. To be blindsided on top of everything else must have been like a wave that knocked her off her feet, I can't even imagine 

The dui was way back in 2005 and she just found out about it? See now that is not right. Desiree had a right to all information regarding her son and his living arrangments. Kaine had no right to withhold that information

IMO - Desiree should have known about the mentally unstable, passing-out drunk part, too (if true)...that didn't happen either.  Desiree was blindsided when Kaine's court filing hit the news. 

Question:  does any know - Kaine's accusations about Terri being a pssing-out drunk - what happens if Terri's attorneys were to assert that Kaine's statements are not true and requests that Kaine "prove it"?

Good question Puzzler.  That's why I keep wondering if some of this isn't being said to provoke Terri?  Or maybe to provoke someone else? 

Well if he is "exaggerating" or what I call knowingly lying on an a court document, he is risking a hell of a lot more then Terri seeing Kitty in a lobby of the police department. If his lawyer is knowingly allowing him to file court documents and she knows he is not being honest, she is risking her career. My bet is the story of Terri's drinking is the "real" truth. 

[Puzzler]

Transcript from The Today Show. 11/15/10
Closed captioning of: Mom: Stepmom had ‘severe hatred’ for KyronAdvertisement | ad info
>>> talk to kyron horman's mom, but here's the latest developments.

>> reporter: this weekend, divers searched the waters of sobi island, a two-day multiagency effort to find little kyron horman. in june when he was 7 years old, kyron disappeared from school after a science fair . on sunday they again walked away empty handed.

>> the dedication is to bring kyron home for closure for the family and for the investigation.

>> reporter: despite a search that appears to be more of a recovery effort, kyron's parents hold out hope their son is alive.

>> some days are better than others, we live it almost hour by hour.

>> it's sickening, it's painful.

>>> it's the worst torture.

kyron's biological parents -- kaine has since filed for divorce from horman.

>> i have everything to --

>> terry horman has never spoke on the the media but in court documents, kaine 's claims -- some of her former friends have spoken out.

>> i don't think terri is capable or harming a child, period. she's just not the type of woman that would do it that i can see.

>> reporter: but in divorce documents, kaine describe s terri as a terrible stepmother, it was common for her to be visibly impaired by alcohol and to pass out on the couch.

>> without a doubt, i wish i would have known it before, i wouldn't tolerate it.

>> a mother and father with her own suspicions as the search for n5 their son approaches six months. @8

>> kyron's mom desiree young is with us exclusively. good morning to you. this is the first time you're speaking out about kyron without your ex-husband kaine . up until now you have presented a united front so what has chan change?

we're still a united front in the goal that we want kyron home and we want answers, that hasn't changed. i personally have learned of information lately that has disappointed me in kaine 's choices and his behavior and i just can't stand by and support the choices that he's making.
>> some of that has to do with these court documents that you have seen where he talks about his wife terri being visibly impaired from alcohol several times a week, he calls her emotionally disturbed , yet he never shared any of his concerns with you, is that correct?

>> that's correct. we learned of all of this information after the fact and from the media. he had several opportunities to let tony and i know what was going on in the house and he did not. he had several opportunities to make the right choice and either let me know or remove kyron from the house, i would have removed kyron from the house if i would have known what was going on.

>> did you see signs ever desiree that terri was dealing with alcohol abuse or that she was emotionally disturbed ?

i did not see any evidence of alcohol abuse , in fact i didn't know about the dui until after kyron went missing. but as far as a personality disorder, i did for years, i was aware that she had some issues with pathological lying, things of that nature, but just mostly from my interactions with her. i didn't see, you know, as much as kaine did.

>> if you had any concerns, why didn't you at any time -- or did you try to get your son kyron out of that home?

>> oh, yes, i did. starting a year prior to him going missing , i tried to get custody of him.

>> and what would happen?

>> kaine told me it was not an option on several occasions and it was a point of contention with us. he was exhibiting some problems in school and he was expressing a lot of sadness and upset at the situation and kyron on many occasions told me he wanted to come and live with me and on a couple of different occasions, terri had called me specifically so that i could talk to kyron because he was so upset and terri , personally wanted me to take kyron. >>

and then on friday, the police showed you some e-mails that terri had sent to friends of hers describing her marriage to kaine and her feelings about your son. i know you can't reveal the specifics because of the investigation, but generally, what did they say?

it's very clear from terri 's horrible words that she had a severe hatred for kyron and that a lot -- she blames a lot of the marital rproblems between kaine and herself on kyron. it was a huge point of contention in their marriage and she had expressed in great detail her hatred for kyron. i now believe, without a shadow of a doubt that not only is she capable of hurting kyron, that it's clear that she could have hurt him in the worst possible way.

>> do you still hold out hope that your son's alive?

>> i will until the day i die.

>> thank you so much for joining us and please know that our thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

>> thank you.

BBM
1st bold section:  disappointed in Kaine's choices, Kaine's decisions and can't stand by and support the "choices he is making".
Wow...what's going on?

2nd bold section:  maybe it's true that Terry had a problem with Kyron, but at least she would call his mother and let Kyron talk to his mom.

Wonder what's going to come out eventually as to "all" the reasons Terri wanted Desiree to have Kyron?

[Puzzler]

Did I imagine it or did Desiree say in this mornings interview that she didn't know about Terri's DUI?

No ~ IIRC you didn't imagine it, I hope this will bring full disclosure with Desiree and Tony in regards to what went on in the  Horman home with the only exception being LE asked for it not to be shared. To be blindsided on top of everything else must have been like a wave that knocked her off her feet, I can't even imagine 

The dui was way back in 2005 and she just found out about it? See now that is not right. Desiree had a right to all information regarding her son and his living arrangments. Kaine had no right to withhold that information

IMO - Desiree should have known about the mentally unstable, passing-out drunk part, too (if true)...that didn't happen either.  Desiree was blindsided when Kaine's court filing hit the news. 

Question:  does any know - Kaine's accusations about Terri being a pssing-out drunk - what happens if Terri's attorneys were to assert that Kaine's statements are not true and requests that Kaine "prove it"?

Good question Puzzler.  That's why I keep wondering if some of this isn't being said to provoke Terri?  Or maybe to provoke someone else? 

Well if he is "exaggerating" or what I call knowingly lying on an a court document, he is risking a hell of a lot more then Terri seeing Kitty in a lobby of the police department. If his lawyer is knowingly allowing him to file court documents and she knows he is not being honest, she is risking her career. My bet is the story of Terri's drinking is the "real" truth. 

Okay...I'll bite..."How" would Kaine's attorney know what was true and what isn't about Terri passing-out drunk several times a week?  How would Kaine's attorney know that was true for a fact? 

I believe the attorney would work on the basis that she believed what her client represented to her; therefore, she would be making a filing to the best of her ability.  I don't think the attorney would be at fault unless she "knowingly" made a false representation and I just don't see her doing that.  However, I also don't see how she would have "absolute fact" about Terri.

[Tracygirl]

I have to admit, learning that Terri had reached out to Desiree and told her that she believes Kyron needs to be with her, that puts this in a whole different light for me. What did Desiree say, Kyron called her and was crying, Desiree spoke to Terri and that is when Terri told her that Kyron needs to be with her. Kaine had said something about there was a time during a business trip there was something said about that but he didn't think it was necessarily the correct response to send Kyron away. That I think happened a year prior to Kyron going missing per Desiree, 7/09
Didn't Terri's son James get sent away while Kaine was on a business trip?  That was 1/10 right? WTH is with Terri and kaine being on business trips that leads to her freaking out and she wants to send the kids away? 

[Tracygirl]

Did I imagine it or did Desiree say in this mornings interview that she didn't know about Terri's DUI?

No ~ IIRC you didn't imagine it, I hope this will bring full disclosure with Desiree and Tony in regards to what went on in the  Horman home with the only exception being LE asked for it not to be shared. To be blindsided on top of everything else must have been like a wave that knocked her off her feet, I can't even imagine 

The dui was way back in 2005 and she just found out about it? See now that is not right. Desiree had a right to all information regarding her son and his living arrangments. Kaine had no right to withhold that information

IMO - Desiree should have known about the mentally unstable, passing-out drunk part, too (if true)...that didn't happen either.  Desiree was blindsided when Kaine's court filing hit the news. 

Question:  does any know - Kaine's accusations about Terri being a pssing-out drunk - what happens if Terri's attorneys were to assert that Kaine's statements are not true and requests that Kaine "prove it"?

Good question Puzzler.  That's why I keep wondering if some of this isn't being said to provoke Terri?  Or maybe to provoke someone else? 

Well if he is "exaggerating" or what I call knowingly lying on an a court document, he is risking a hell of a lot more then Terri seeing Kitty in a lobby of the police department. If his lawyer is knowingly allowing him to file court documents and she knows he is not being honest, she is risking her career. My bet is the story of Terri's drinking is the "real" truth. 

Okay...I'll bite..."How" would Kaine's attorney know what was true and what isn't about Terri passing-out drunk several times a week?  How would Kaine's attorney know that was true for a fact? 

I believe the attorney would work on the basis that she believed what her client represented to her; therefore, she would be making a filing to the best of her ability.  I don't think the attorney would be at fault unless she "knowingly" made a false representation and I just don't see her doing that.  However, I also don't see how she would have "absolute fact" about Terri.

Well I would guess Terri's lawyers would sure like to try to get her to prove she didn't knowlingly file false documents in the attempt to fool the court. With Kaines stories changing so much, I would think his attorney did validate the information and there is a paper trail to prove it. Who knows though, I am not a lawyer, it just makes sense to me.

[Puzzler]

I have to admit, learning that Terri had reached out to Desiree and told her that she believes Kyron needs to be with her, that puts this in a whole different light for me. What did Desiree say, Kyron called her and was crying, Desiree spoke to Terri and that is when Terri told her that Kyron needs to be with her. Kaine had said something about there was a time during a business trip there was something said about that but he didn't think it was necessarily the correct response to send Kyron away. That I think happened a year prior to Kyron going missing per Desiree, 7/09
Didn't Terri's son James get sent away while Kaine was on a business trip?  That was 1/10 right? WTH is with Terri and kaine being on business trips that leads to her freaking out and she wants to send the kids away? 

Maybe it was the only time she had a safe time to get something accomplished.  Remember, she called Kaine while he was on a trip and said James was gone.  It still makes me consider that with the bad marriage and all that the phone conversation might have be something like:  Okay, James is gone...are you happy now?  I could be off-base here, but that's what I thought when I first heard about James and in brining it up again today, I have that same thought.  IMO James leaving was not what Terri wanted.  She had James with her all his life.  He wasn't happy there - skipping school and bad grades, bored.  So, while Kaine is away, she makes the transition for James to get him into a happier place.  Maybe...the same for Kyron was tried...didn't happen...too bad it didn't happen.

[Puzzler]

Did I imagine it or did Desiree say in this mornings interview that she didn't know about Terri's DUI?

No ~ IIRC you didn't imagine it, I hope this will bring full disclosure with Desiree and Tony in regards to what went on in the  Horman home with the only exception being LE asked for it not to be shared. To be blindsided on top of everything else must have been like a wave that knocked her off her feet, I can't even imagine 

The dui was way back in 2005 and she just found out about it? See now that is not right. Desiree had a right to all information regarding her son and his living arrangments. Kaine had no right to withhold that information

IMO - Desiree should have known about the mentally unstable, passing-out drunk part, too (if true)...that didn't happen either.  Desiree was blindsided when Kaine's court filing hit the news. 

Question:  does any know - Kaine's accusations about Terri being a pssing-out drunk - what happens if Terri's attorneys were to assert that Kaine's statements are not true and requests that Kaine "prove it"?

Good question Puzzler.  That's why I keep wondering if some of this isn't being said to provoke Terri?  Or maybe to provoke someone else? 

Well if he is "exaggerating" or what I call knowingly lying on an a court document, he is risking a hell of a lot more then Terri seeing Kitty in a lobby of the police department. If his lawyer is knowingly allowing him to file court documents and she knows he is not being honest, she is risking her career. My bet is the story of Terri's drinking is the "real" truth. 

Okay...I'll bite..."How" would Kaine's attorney know what was true and what isn't about Terri passing-out drunk several times a week?  How would Kaine's attorney know that was true for a fact? 

I believe the attorney would work on the basis that she believed what her client represented to her; therefore, she would be making a filing to the best of her ability.  I don't think the attorney would be at fault unless she "knowingly" made a false representation and I just don't see her doing that.  However, I also don't see how she would have "absolute fact" about Terri.

Well I would guess Terri's lawyers would sure like to try to get her to prove she didn't knowlingly file false documents in the attempt to fool the court. With Kaines stories changing so much, I would think his attorney did validate the information and there is a paper trail to prove it. Who knows though, I am not a lawyer, it just makes sense to me.

I hear you...but..."how" would Kaine's attorney validate that Terri was a passing-out drunk?  I really don't know how you validate that.