Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #35 11/11/10 - 11/21/10

[Gypsy DD]

LORDY, LORDY..was this the place that Kaine met TMH?

[cw618]

Glen Anderson owner of Bottoms up Tavern.


http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000061340654&ref=search



Edit to add forgotten link.  MB  : http://www.manta.com/c/mm48v2y/bottoms-up-tavern

back in the day ive been to a couple of bars with the same name
and they were dives, have a look see, maybe it was the atmosphere
http://local.yahoo.com/info-21977564-bottoms-up-tavern-portland?tab=photos#photos

[no rose colored glasses]

Glen Anderson owner of Bottoms up Tavern.


http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000061340654&ref=search



Edit to add forgotten link.  MB  : http://www.manta.com/c/mm48v2y/bottoms-up-tavern

back in the day ive been to a couple of bars with the same name
and they were dives, have a look see, maybe it was the atmosphere
http://local.yahoo.com/info-21977564-bottoms-up-tavern-portland?tab=photos#photos

Looks like a dive to me, and there is one review 

[pdh3]

Hi NR!  I don't know...after the affair KH had with TH when she was pregnant then the medical issues and custody battle...I think (pure speculation) that DY felt she could not win against KH.  DY is a victim just as her son.
(Edit to add missing quote bracket. MB)  

I haven't heard of a "custody battle".  Correct me if I'm wrong, please...what I recall is that during Desiree's illness she went to Canada and had a recovery period.  During that time, Desiree thought it best for the "dad's" of her two boys to watch after the boys.  Then...when Desiree was better, she asked both dad's to let her have the boys back and they refused.  I did not hear there was a court battle over either son.  That she asked the two dads to let her have her boys and both dads wouldn't agree to give back the boy.  I do wonder why "both" dads wouldn't return custody of the sons back to Desiree.  Maybe there were court battles, but I've not read anything about it.

Has anyone else any knowledge?

http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-seattle/kyron-horman-update-family-turmoil-two-911-calls-saturday-at-horman-residence-dad-moves-out
In 2003 Desiree and Kaine’s divorce is final. They share custody of Kyron who lives mostly with Desiree.

By 2004 Terri is back in school and earns her master’s in education at Pacific University in Forest Grove.

Also in 2004 Desiree moves to Canada for medical treatment. Terri, Desiree’s friend, offers to move in with Kaine to help care for Kyron, a toddler at the time. She brings her son James with her.

Just two months later Desiree returns from Canada with $30,000 in bills. She moves in with her parents in Medford and allegedly did not try to regain custody of Kyron. She did maintain a relationship with him.



I do not know for certain...but I imagine there was a custody battle during the divorce because of this:

Because Desiree was afraid Kaine would take Kyron and her older son from a previous marriage, she filed a restraining order against him when she was divorcing him (Just above the mid story ad http://wweek.com/editorial/3633/14183/ ) and it was granted by the judge.

What hasn’t been made public is the fact that, a month after filing for divorce, Young sought a restraining order against Kaine Horman, Kyron’s dad.

At the time, she had a 7-year-old son from a previous marriage. In court documents, Young said she feared Kaine Horman would “remove our children from their residence.” It’s unclear whether the couple was living together at the time. Washington County Circuit Judge Donald Letourneau granted Young’s request, forbidding either her or Kaine Horman from taking the children without the other’s consent.http://wweek.com/editorial/3633/14183/

Your source has a lot of mistakes.

Terri and Desiree were never friends.

There was never any custody battle. Desiree had Kyron until she was too sick to care for him. Kyron was 2 years old when she had to go to Canada. Kaine took over his care at that point.
The RO was STANDARD for a divorce case and also APPLIED TO DESIREE AS WELL. NEITHER PARTY was allowed to take off with Kyron. Those are issued until the custody agreements are worked out and finalized. It's just a legal way to keep couples from fighting over where the children will live until then. Since Desiree filed for the divorce, she filed the RO. Any wording is going to be one-sided because that's the way lawyers file things in a divorce. It's an adversarial legal process.
Quinn was never an issue. He went to live with his father when Desiree went to Canada. Kaine had no legal right to Quinn, and he would know that, as would his lawyer at that time.

[sassifrass]

Well I'm going to say this because it's about Kyron. This is what the Desiree side said to me. I haven't disclosed a lot but I just want to give you an idea of their suspicions and what they know. This is what was told to me without me questioning anything.

I want to make it very clear, I NEVER asked any questions regarding this case. The communication was more of a dumping of frustration on their part and asking questions because Desiree refused to surf the internet on her own. If anything popped up, she was given the info and one of her family members dealt with it.

The quote about KH and TH: Under the circumstances of how Terri and Kaine came to be

Now you can take this in any way you want but considering the location of the bar and KH being friendly with the owner, well it's up to your opinion. 

[sassifrass]

Hi NR!  I don't know...after the affair KH had with TH when she was pregnant then the medical issues and custody battle...I think (pure speculation) that DY felt she could not win against KH.  DY is a victim just as her son.
(Edit to add missing quote bracket. MB)  

I haven't heard of a "custody battle".  Correct me if I'm wrong, please...what I recall is that during Desiree's illness she went to Canada and had a recovery period.  During that time, Desiree thought it best for the "dad's" of her two boys to watch after the boys.  Then...when Desiree was better, she asked both dad's to let her have the boys back and they refused.  I did not hear there was a court battle over either son.  That she asked the two dads to let her have her boys and both dads wouldn't agree to give back the boy.  I do wonder why "both" dads wouldn't return custody of the sons back to Desiree.  Maybe there were court battles, but I've not read anything about it.

Has anyone else any knowledge?

http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-seattle/kyron-horman-update-family-turmoil-two-911-calls-saturday-at-horman-residence-dad-moves-out
In 2003 Desiree and Kaine’s divorce is final. They share custody of Kyron who lives mostly with Desiree.

By 2004 Terri is back in school and earns her master’s in education at Pacific University in Forest Grove.

Also in 2004 Desiree moves to Canada for medical treatment. Terri, Desiree’s friend, offers to move in with Kaine to help care for Kyron, a toddler at the time. She brings her son James with her.

Just two months later Desiree returns from Canada with $30,000 in bills. She moves in with her parents in Medford and allegedly did not try to regain custody of Kyron. She did maintain a relationship with him.



I do not know for certain...but I imagine there was a custody battle during the divorce because of this:

Because Desiree was afraid Kaine would take Kyron and her older son from a previous marriage, she filed a restraining order against him when she was divorcing him (Just above the mid story ad http://wweek.com/editorial/3633/14183/ ) and it was granted by the judge.

What hasn’t been made public is the fact that, a month after filing for divorce, Young sought a restraining order against Kaine Horman, Kyron’s dad.

At the time, she had a 7-year-old son from a previous marriage. In court documents, Young said she feared Kaine Horman would “remove our children from their residence.” It’s unclear whether the couple was living together at the time. Washington County Circuit Judge Donald Letourneau granted Young’s request, forbidding either her or Kaine Horman from taking the children without the other’s consent.http://wweek.com/editorial/3633/14183/

Your source has a lot of mistakes.

Terri and Desiree were never friends.

There was never any custody battle. Desiree had Kyron until she was too sick to care for him. Kyron was 2 years old when she had to go to Canada. Kaine took over his care at that point.
The RO was STANDARD for a divorce case and also APPLIED TO DESIREE AS WELL. NEITHER PARTY was allowed to take off with Kyron. Those are issued until the custody agreements are worked out and finalized. It's just a legal way to keep couples from fighting over where the children will live until then. Since Desiree filed for the divorce, she filed the RO. Any wording is going to be one-sided because that's the way lawyers file things in a divorce. It's an adversarial legal process.
Quinn was never an issue. He went to live with his father when Desiree went to Canada. Kaine had no legal right to Quinn, and he would know that, as would his lawyer at that time.

http://www.divorcenet.com/states/oregon/orart_08

What happens if my partner gets a restraining order against me?
Recent changes in restraining order law interfere with the alleged abusers ability to claim custody. If a restraining order is upheld against you, your ability to request sole custody in future cases may be affected. A skillful attorney may be able to negotiate to dismiss the restraining order in exchange for a "Domestic Relations Restraining Order." A Domestic Relations Restraining Order has substantially less prejudicial effect on the alleged abuser.

Some people file for divorce and obtain a restraining order at the same time as part of "divorce planning" to gain an advantage in a divorce case. The consequences for the alleged abuser are enormous, including losing the right to hunt and possess firearms, restriction on your rights to seek custody, and the constant risk of arrest for a reported violation. An attorney may be able to assist you in having the restraining order dismissed in court, or through negotiation.

[no rose colored glasses]

Well I'm going to say this because it's about Kyron. This is what the Desiree side said to me. I haven't disclosed a lot but I just want to give you an idea of their suspicions and what they know. This is what was told to me without me questioning anything.

I want to make it very clear, I NEVER asked any questions regarding this case. The communication was more of a dumping of frustration on their part and asking questions because Desiree refused to surf the internet on her own. If anything popped up, she was given the info and one of her family members dealt with it.

The quote about KH and TH: Under the circumstances of how Terri and Kaine came to be

Now you can take this in any way you want but considering the location of the bar and KH being friendly with the owner, well it's up to your opinion. 

I kind of got the feeling that is where they perhaps met.

[nicubird]

Hi NR!  I don't know...after the affair KH had with TH when she was pregnant then the medical issues and custody battle...I think (pure speculation) that DY felt she could not win against KH.  DY is a victim just as her son.
(Edit to add missing quote bracket. MB)  

I haven't heard of a "custody battle".  Correct me if I'm wrong, please...what I recall is that during Desiree's illness she went to Canada and had a recovery period.  During that time, Desiree thought it best for the "dad's" of her two boys to watch after the boys.  Then...when Desiree was better, she asked both dad's to let her have the boys back and they refused.  I did not hear there was a court battle over either son.  That she asked the two dads to let her have her boys and both dads wouldn't agree to give back the boy.  I do wonder why "both" dads wouldn't return custody of the sons back to Desiree.  Maybe there were court battles, but I've not read anything about it.

Has anyone else any knowledge?

http://www.examiner.com/headlines-in-seattle/kyron-horman-update-family-turmoil-two-911-calls-saturday-at-horman-residence-dad-moves-out
In 2003 Desiree and Kaine’s divorce is final. They share custody of Kyron who lives mostly with Desiree.

By 2004 Terri is back in school and earns her master’s in education at Pacific University in Forest Grove.

Also in 2004 Desiree moves to Canada for medical treatment. Terri, Desiree’s friend, offers to move in with Kaine to help care for Kyron, a toddler at the time. She brings her son James with her.

Just two months later Desiree returns from Canada with $30,000 in bills. She moves in with her parents in Medford and allegedly did not try to regain custody of Kyron. She did maintain a relationship with him.



I do not know for certain...but I imagine there was a custody battle during the divorce because of this:

Because Desiree was afraid Kaine would take Kyron and her older son from a previous marriage, she filed a restraining order against him when she was divorcing him (Just above the mid story ad http://wweek.com/editorial/3633/14183/ ) and it was granted by the judge.

What hasn’t been made public is the fact that, a month after filing for divorce, Young sought a restraining order against Kaine Horman, Kyron’s dad.

At the time, she had a 7-year-old son from a previous marriage. In court documents, Young said she feared Kaine Horman would “remove our children from their residence.” It’s unclear whether the couple was living together at the time. Washington County Circuit Judge Donald Letourneau granted Young’s request, forbidding either her or Kaine Horman from taking the children without the other’s consent.http://wweek.com/editorial/3633/14183/

Your source has a lot of mistakes.

Terri and Desiree were never friends.

There was never any custody battle. Desiree had Kyron until she was too sick to care for him. Kyron was 2 years old when she had to go to Canada. Kaine took over his care at that point.
The RO was STANDARD for a divorce case and also APPLIED TO DESIREE AS WELL. NEITHER PARTY was allowed to take off with Kyron. Those are issued until the custody agreements are worked out and finalized. It's just a legal way to keep couples from fighting over where the children will live until then. Since Desiree filed for the divorce, she filed the RO. Any wording is going to be one-sided because that's the way lawyers file things in a divorce. It's an adversarial legal process.
Quinn was never an issue. He went to live with his father when Desiree went to Canada. Kaine had no legal right to Quinn, and he would know that, as would his lawyer at that time.

http://www.divorcenet.com/states/oregon/orart_08

What happens if my partner gets a restraining order against me?
Recent changes in restraining order law interfere with the alleged abusers ability to claim custody. If a restraining order is upheld against you, your ability to request sole custody in future cases may be affected. A skillful attorney may be able to negotiate to dismiss the restraining order in exchange for a "Domestic Relations Restraining Order." A Domestic Relations Restraining Order has substantially less prejudicial effect on the alleged abuser.

Some people file for divorce and obtain a restraining order at the same time as part of "divorce planning" to gain an advantage in a divorce case. The consequences for the alleged abuser are enormous, including losing the right to hunt and possess firearms, restriction on your rights to seek custody, and the constant risk of arrest for a reported violation. An attorney may be able to assist you in having the restraining order dismissed in court, or through negotiation.

BBM. I believe the type of RO Desiree filed is the former mentioned (Domestic Relations Restraining order). It is the routine filing that prohibits the removal of the children from the current home. The second restraining order mentioned is a FAPA (the type Kaine filed when filing for divorce). The FAPA results in the restrictions mentioned and is the one the other party must defend against.

[neighbor]

Well I'm going to say this because it's about Kyron. This is what the Desiree side said to me. I haven't disclosed a lot but I just want to give you an idea of their suspicions and what they know. This is what was told to me without me questioning anything.

I want to make it very clear, I NEVER asked any questions regarding this case. The communication was more of a dumping of frustration on their part and asking questions because Desiree refused to surf the internet on her own. If anything popped up, she was given the info and one of her family members dealt with it.

The quote about KH and TH: Under the circumstances of how Terri and Kaine came to be

Now you can take this in any way you want but considering the location of the bar and KH being friendly with the owner, well it's up to your opinion. 

I kind of got the feeling that is where they perhaps met.

Fits the bill and is very popular on Fridays.  I always wondered why there were so many cars parked on the side of Hwy 30.  Welcome to Portland, I guess.

[sassifrass]

nicu, I have to research that further. After all, we don't have the legal docs to see the RO that DY placed on KH.

NRCG: I absolutely believe that is where KH met TH.

I just wanted to make one more note before I head out.I know for a fact that DY's family reads this forum and I just hope that we can be kind in any words or opinions that we say about her. She is truly suffering. I'm not trying to sway opinions, I just want you to know that she is in great pain.

Good night Monkeys 

[neighbor]

Glen Anderson owner of Bottoms up Tavern.


http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000061340654&ref=search



Edit to add forgotten link.  MB  : http://www.manta.com/c/mm48v2y/bottoms-up-tavern

A red herring, but IIRC that guy also own a restaurant.  I doubt that strip clubs allow camera's let alone have the owner pose.

[no rose colored glasses]

nicu, I have to research that further. After all, we don't have the legal docs to see the RO that DY placed on KH.

NRCG: I absolutely believe that is where KH met TH.

I just wanted to make one more note before I head out.I know for a fact that DY's family reads this forum and I just hope that we can be kind in any words or opinions that we say about her. She is truly suffering. I'm not trying to sway opinions, I just want you to know that she is in great pain.

Good night Monkeys 

And my heart goes out to Desiree, and she is being kinder than I would be     Guess that bar looks like a busy place and from the one review and I could be wrong it is more then just a bar.

[no rose colored glasses]

Glen Anderson owner of Bottoms up Tavern.


http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000061340654&ref=search



Edit to add forgotten link.  MB  : http://www.manta.com/c/mm48v2y/bottoms-up-tavern

A red herring, but IIRC that guy also own a restaurant.  I doubt that strip clubs allow camera's let alone have the owner pose.

Now that I wouldn't know, about cameras in a strip club.

[Puzzler]

I seem to recall that Terri worked as a manager (or something like that) in a restaurant in Portland and that Kaine and some friends came in for dinner.  She was working when Kaine came in for dinner.

It seems like it was a fairly nice restaurant but that it may have had some kind of nudity, too.  But it was in Portland.

[sassifrass]

I just looked at Glens, the owner of Bottoms up Tavern, FB friends. One of his friends are DeFranco's Gym. They are super into weight lifting/ body building. http://realworldstrengthcoach.com/blog/amazing-weekend-joe-defrancos-gym/

Is this too much of a co- winkydinky?

Sorry, I just keep having these epiphanies. 

There has to be some connection there. Monkeys? Any thoughts?

[sassifrass]

I seem to recall that Terri worked as a manager (or something like that) in a restaurant in Portland and that Kaine and some friends came in for dinner.  She was working when Kaine came in for dinner.

It seems like it was a fairly nice restaurant but that it may have had some kind of nudity, too.  But it was in Portland.

Yeah, they serve food, but I don't think that is the main attraction. 

[sassifrass]

Ok, for real. I've been up since 1am and need sleep. Good night Monkeys and God Bless you All! 

[islandmonkey]

nicu, I have to research that further. After all, we don't have the legal docs to see the RO that DY placed on KH.

NRCG: I absolutely believe that is where KH met TH.

I just wanted to make one more note before I head out.I know for a fact that DY's family reads this forum and I just hope that we can be kind in any words or opinions that we say about her. She is truly suffering. I'm not trying to sway opinions, I just want you to know that she is in great pain.

Good night Monkeys 

And my heart goes out to Desiree, and she is being kinder than I would be     Guess that bar looks like a busy place and from the one review and I could be wrong it is more then just a bar.

ITA~she has shown far more dignity than I would have even considered, and of all the people involved I trust her more than anyone......if I had to weigh her words that she stated as fact vs others, in my mind it's not even a close call - she gets my vote hands down.

I have been sooooo busy at work, and hopefully will be thru the week and I thought I had missed alot with all the pressers, morning shows, Datline and searches~I guess I expected an arrest, sadly still nothing and no Kyron

[neighbor]

Glen Anderson owner of Bottoms up Tavern.


http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000061340654&ref=search



Edit to add forgotten link.  MB  : http://www.manta.com/c/mm48v2y/bottoms-up-tavern

A red herring, but IIRC that guy also own a restaurant.  I doubt that strip clubs allow camera's let alone have the owner pose.

Now that I wouldn't know, about cameras in a strip club.

Maybe some on location research .. NOT 

[hellokitty]

 

It's not that I don't believe that TH could have worked at Bottoms up, but I think that FB page is fake.

The owner has 5 friends?  That's really hard to believe.

And that pic of him and Kaine looks photo shopped to me.  Kaine's head looks huge compares to his, and the arm angles are weird.

I hope some photo shop expert will look at it.