Kyron Horman, 7 years old, PORTLAND, OR #35 11/11/10 - 11/21/10

[Kokos Cat]

Thanks, Sassi! You're an

 

[Kokos Cat]

Dear Monkeys,

If any of you hear of a search this weekend, will you let us know?  I will be surprised if they don't go back out again. 

Brace yourselves, if they do.   

Does anyone know in Portland know what time/channel the afternoon news comes on?
Thanks!

K. Cat 

KGW has news at 12:00 and 12:30 Koko. 

Just bumping this for the new page! 
  Here's to the day that Kyron returns home...

[starwynn]

For some reason, when I read Kaine's comments, I get the feeling that now that the attention (read as "blame") is focusing more on him, he's being a defensive.  I feel because of that feeling of defensiveness,  he's trying a little too hard to convince us (and possibly himself) that he's not feeling guilty about things. 

I know when I lost my mom to suicide, there was a lot of guilt to deal with.  There was a point where I would say things like "I know now that I couldn't have stopped her reasonably" that I didn't really feel it.  But I felt it *some* which was a lot more than I felt it at first, and *some* felt like a whole lot at that point.  I needed to say it out loud to remind myself, and remind others that it was ok not to flog myself daily for something that yes - maybe I could have stopped, but reasonably I couldn't have.   

Perhaps I'm projecting my memory of the feelings of combined guilt/loss/hopelessness onto him, but it would make sense.  Really HE probably doesn't even really know what he's feeling.  And I think because he's been well spoken usually throughout this, we all tend to have had hopes for him being a more sensitive man than most. 

But maybe in the end he's just a guy who is confused and feeling defensive in the sudden hot-spotlight for something that ultimately he didn't do - which is abduct (or kill) Kyron.

Just my thoughts.

[starwynn]

p.s.  Maybe I should say "OK to STOP flogging myself daily"  >.>   I do agree with the others that I don't think you ever completely get rid of the guilty feelings or WIFS (what-ifs) that come with a traumatic loss.

[no rose colored glasses]

Just a thought from many of my own experiences. I don't know of course if Kaine is on any kind of antidepressant, or anxiety medication, but more often then not they can give you a flat thought process. It doesn't mean you don't care, it sort of takes the cares, worries, depression and pushes them to the back and sometimes a person can come across as a cold person. They can definitely change you and how you look at things.

[Tracygirl]

Hi Monkeys...I missed the conversation yesterday about unemployment but wanted to mention something.  There is no way that TH could have been making much from her unemployment, IF she had it at all, which I highly doubt. 

I am currently on unemployment, just started the 2nd phase (extension), which is for 20 more weeks.  The maximum amount of unemployment paid in Oregon is around $478/mo, regardless of how much you made.  I made over $15/hr in the job I was laid off from, and my unemployment is right around $400.

My ex was receiving over 1600 per month from unemployment in oregon and was on the extension. I know because of the court filings with child support. Hmmm not sure, perhaps it is based on earnings

Hi Tracygirl...I would guess that he might have been a union member?  Union members get additional unemployment through their union.

Nope not a union member either. I don't know, I saw the papers and know what he was getting. Perhaps it feel under something else? Don't know though.

[no rose colored glasses]

p.s.  Maybe I should say "OK to STOP flogging myself daily"  >.>   I do agree with the others that I don't think you ever completely get rid of the guilty feelings or WIFS (what-ifs) that come with a traumatic loss.

I'm sorry that you lost your mom to suicide   

[Tracygirl]

Hi Monkeys...I missed the conversation yesterday about unemployment but wanted to mention something.  There is no way that TH could have been making much from her unemployment, IF she had it at all, which I highly doubt. 

I am currently on unemployment, just started the 2nd phase (extension), which is for 20 more weeks.  The maximum amount of unemployment paid in Oregon is around $478/mo, regardless of how much you made.  I made over $15/hr in the job I was laid off from, and my unemployment is right around $400.

My ex was receiving over 1600 per month from unemployment in oregon and was on the extension. I know because of the court filings with child support. Hmmm not sure, perhaps it is based on earnings

Joni, isn't that $400 a week that you receive?  I don't know of any state that pays only $400 a month.  Arizona is one of lowest in the nation, and it pays $275 a week before deductions for taxes. Hi Tracygirl...I would guess that he might have been a union member?  Union members get additional unemployment through their union.

Oh DUH!  Yes, of course I meant per week...sorry, I got a temp thing this week, been working 12/hr days so I guess I was just tired. (But YAYYY got to work!    )

OHHHH see knew it was something else. I highly doubt my ex would ever tell me he was getting paid more then what he was, lol.

[Puzzler]

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/11/02/kyron-horman-case-terri-horman-sexts-sent-to-kaine-hormans-phone-what/



1.   zeus says:
November 19, 2010 at 3:37 am
http://www.katu.com/news/local/109138704.html
I just read what Kaine said on KATU Nov 18th. It’s interesting because I know that most Moms would word it differently and feel differently about it. Here’s some of what he said:
* ..said he no longer feels responsible for what happened to his son
* ..he came to realize he didn’t stand a chance against this circumstance. (after therapy)
* Kaine said he now believes there was no way to know his son would disappear
* ..said he believes there was nothing he and others close to Kyron could have done to prevent it
* That if it helps people to put blame on me for this then go right ahead if it makes you feel better as long as you get right back out and start looking for him then that’s fine. But I don’t hold myself responsible. I’m not going to hold myself hostage for this event that happened to him
* “I know that she’s extremely upset. I don’t know it’s necessarily at me or anyone else in particular. We’re all having a hard time with this,” he said. “I’m just chalking it up to just one of those really difficult times that we’re going through right now (discussing Desiree)
____________________
Man, if that had been me, as a mom, I would always blame myself. Even if there was no way I could have caused any of it. There would be no amount of therapy that would make me feel better-none-ever. The what ifs would haunt me until I died. Especially in circumstances like Kaine and Terri’s, with some of her odd behavior. I believe poor Desiree feels extreme guilt (even though she shouldn’t), and I wonder how she will react to what Kaine said?
But as a curious thought-I wonder how everyone feels reading or listening to what Kaine said. If he himself feels clear of any responsibility in Kyron’s disappearance-do you all feel better that he is being honest and putting it out there? Or do you think he is not telling the truth for some reason?
I am REALLY wondering about his choice of words for this particular sentence:
*****************
“I’m not going to hold myself hostage for this event that happened to him”
*****************
I’m sorry-but that feels sort of heartless/cold and definitely weird!
______________

My 2 cents:

Re post from BOC:  I haven’t seen anything for myself that Kaine said these things, but, if he did, I just don’t understand this man.

IMO, one thing’s for sure:  We are seeing Kaine trying to manipulate people’s thoughts.  Have you noticed that every time Desiree comes out and talks, Kaine speaks out right afterwards.  Last word.  This time though, Desiree spoke out against Kaine…so he’s been out twice since Desiree last spoke. 

He makes it clear he takes no blame, yet he filed court papers saying that Terri was a passing-out drunk several nights a week and he didn’t state anything he did to get help for her with her problems OR any steps he took to keep his children safe.  Wow, just wow!

As far as Kaine and his comments in that interview, IMO, I feel he's in a bit of denial with Desiree's anger towards him, and him neglecting to inform her of what was happening in that house. Having said that, I don't feel for one minute that Kaine is responsible, or should feel responsible for what happened to Kyron. The ONLY one responsible is Terri Moulton Homon.

His wording may seem off base to many people, but we really don't know him. For all we know, that's how he speaks. IMO, I think the content of the words spoken are more important than the choice of his words expressing his feelings. JMO

Yes, Desiree is angry at Kaine. That can't be denied if you watched her in the video.  There still is emotion going all the way back to when they were married. It's their history and has only worsened with time.

IMO we do not know the the ONLY one responsible is Terri...even LE has NOT told us that.  There could be a number of people involved.  I just hope we find out for sure one day. I want the whole truth to come out and every single person involved to be brought to justice!

I respect those who don't feel Kaine is involved in any way. IMO I just want the truth...even "if" Kaine is involved in some way.

At the very least, if we take into consideration Kaine's court filings and his assertion that Terri was a passing-out drunk and possibly mentally unstable, then why wouldn't Kaine have taken some sort of action to protect his children?  Why wouldn't Kaine hide the truth from the bio mom?  Why wouldn't Kaine consider letting Desiree have a little more custody (if not full custody) if his child was in such a bad situation? Why didn't Kaine intervene to try to help his spouse if he thought she had such problems?


 

[Brandi]

For some reason, when I read Kaine's comments, I get the feeling that now that the attention (read as "blame") is focusing more on him, he's being a defensive.  I feel because of that feeling of defensiveness,  he's trying a little too hard to convince us (and possibly himself) that he's not feeling guilty about things. 

I know when I lost my mom to suicide, there was a lot of guilt to deal with.  There was a point where I would say things like "I know now that I couldn't have stopped her reasonably" that I didn't really feel it.  But I felt it *some* which was a lot more than I felt it at first, and *some* felt like a whole lot at that point.  I needed to say it out loud to remind myself, and remind others that it was ok not to flog myself daily for something that yes - maybe I could have stopped, but reasonably I couldn't have.   

Perhaps I'm projecting my memory of the feelings of combined guilt/loss/hopelessness onto him, but it would make sense.  Really HE probably doesn't even really know what he's feeling.  And I think because he's been well spoken usually throughout this, we all tend to have had hopes for him being a more sensitive man than most. 

But maybe in the end he's just a guy who is confused and feeling defensive in the sudden hot-spotlight for something that ultimately he didn't do - which is abduct (or kill) Kyron.

Just my thoughts.

Excellent insights.

And I am sorry you lost your mother and went through that guilt.

[Puzzler]

http://blinkoncrime.com/2010/11/02/kyron-horman-case-terri-horman-sexts-sent-to-kaine-hormans-phone-what/



1.   zeus says:
November 19, 2010 at 3:37 am
http://www.katu.com/news/local/109138704.html
I just read what Kaine said on KATU Nov 18th. It’s interesting because I know that most Moms would word it differently and feel differently about it. Here’s some of what he said:
* ..said he no longer feels responsible for what happened to his son
* ..he came to realize he didn’t stand a chance against this circumstance. (after therapy)
* Kaine said he now believes there was no way to know his son would disappear
* ..said he believes there was nothing he and others close to Kyron could have done to prevent it
* That if it helps people to put blame on me for this then go right ahead if it makes you feel better as long as you get right back out and start looking for him then that’s fine. But I don’t hold myself responsible. I’m not going to hold myself hostage for this event that happened to him
* “I know that she’s extremely upset. I don’t know it’s necessarily at me or anyone else in particular. We’re all having a hard time with this,” he said. “I’m just chalking it up to just one of those really difficult times that we’re going through right now (discussing Desiree)
____________________
Man, if that had been me, as a mom, I would always blame myself. Even if there was no way I could have caused any of it. There would be no amount of therapy that would make me feel better-none-ever. The what ifs would haunt me until I died. Especially in circumstances like Kaine and Terri’s, with some of her odd behavior. I believe poor Desiree feels extreme guilt (even though she shouldn’t), and I wonder how she will react to what Kaine said?
But as a curious thought-I wonder how everyone feels reading or listening to what Kaine said. If he himself feels clear of any responsibility in Kyron’s disappearance-do you all feel better that he is being honest and putting it out there? Or do you think he is not telling the truth for some reason?
I am REALLY wondering about his choice of words for this particular sentence:
*****************
“I’m not going to hold myself hostage for this event that happened to him”
*****************
I’m sorry-but that feels sort of heartless/cold and definitely weird!
______________

My 2 cents:

Re post from BOC:  I haven’t seen anything for myself that Kaine said these things, but, if he did, I just don’t understand this man.

IMO, one thing’s for sure:  We are seeing Kaine trying to manipulate people’s thoughts.  Have you noticed that every time Desiree comes out and talks, Kaine speaks out right afterwards.  Last word.  This time though, Desiree spoke out against Kaine…so he’s been out twice since Desiree last spoke. 

He makes it clear he takes no blame, yet he filed court papers saying that Terri was a passing-out drunk several nights a week and he didn’t state anything he did to get help for her with her problems OR any steps he took to keep his children safe.  Wow, just wow!

As far as Kaine and his comments in that interview, IMO, I feel he's in a bit of denial with Desiree's anger towards him, and him neglecting to inform her of what was happening in that house. Having said that, I don't feel for one minute that Kaine is responsible, or should feel responsible for what happened to Kyron. The ONLY one responsible is Terri Moulton Homon.

His wording may seem off base to many people, but we really don't know him. For all we know, that's how he speaks. IMO, I think the content of the words spoken are more important than the choice of his words expressing his feelings. JMO

Yes, Desiree is angry at Kaine. That can't be denied if you watched her in the video.  There still is emotion going all the way back to when they were married. It's their history and has only worsened with time.

IMO we do not know the the ONLY one responsible is Terri...even LE has NOT told us that.  There could be a number of people involved.  I just hope we find out for sure one day. I want the whole truth to come out and every single person involved to be brought to justice!

I respect those who don't feel Kaine is involved in any way. IMO I just want the truth...even "if" Kaine is involved in some way.

At the very least, if we take into consideration Kaine's court filings and his assertion that Terri was a passing-out drunk and possibly mentally unstable, then why wouldn't Kaine have taken some sort of action to protect his children?  Why wouldn't Kaine hide the truth from the bio mom?  Why wouldn't Kaine consider letting Desiree have a little more custody (if not full custody) if his child was in such a bad situation? Why didn't Kaine intervene to try to help his spouse if he thought she had such problems?


 

Correction:  Why would (not wouldn't) Kaine hid the truth from the bio mom?

[no rose colored glasses]

Puzzler, only Kaine has the answer to why he didn't tell Desiree things that he should have considering she is Kyron's mother. It could be just me and I have no idea, but after reading and seeing what Kaine had to say I would imagine she is angrier today then she was yesterday.

[sassifrass]

For some reason, when I read Kaine's comments, I get the feeling that now that the attention (read as "blame") is focusing more on him, he's being a defensive.  I feel because of that feeling of defensiveness,  he's trying a little too hard to convince us (and possibly himself) that he's not feeling guilty about things. 

I know when I lost my mom to suicide, there was a lot of guilt to deal with.  There was a point where I would say things like "I know now that I couldn't have stopped her reasonably" that I didn't really feel it.  But I felt it *some* which was a lot more than I felt it at first, and *some* felt like a whole lot at that point.  I needed to say it out loud to remind myself, and remind others that it was ok not to flog myself daily for something that yes - maybe I could have stopped, but reasonably I couldn't have.   

Perhaps I'm projecting my memory of the feelings of combined guilt/loss/hopelessness onto him, but it would make sense.  Really HE probably doesn't even really know what he's feeling.  And I think because he's been well spoken usually throughout this, we all tend to have had hopes for him being a more sensitive man than most. 

But maybe in the end he's just a guy who is confused and feeling defensive in the sudden hot-spotlight for something that ultimately he didn't do - which is abduct (or kill) Kyron.

Just my thoughts.

starwynn   I'm sorry you went through such a horrible experience.

I Do believe Kaine is feeling guilty. I just don't think he has really reached that stage of forgiveness even though he states that he has. I think that NRCG is right about the antidepressants. They can have an effect on people in the sense where it suppresses their real feelings.

[Puzzler]

For some reason, when I read Kaine's comments, I get the feeling that now that the attention (read as "blame") is focusing more on him, he's being a defensive.  I feel because of that feeling of defensiveness,  he's trying a little too hard to convince us (and possibly himself) that he's not feeling guilty about things. 

I know when I lost my mom to suicide, there was a lot of guilt to deal with.  There was a point where I would say things like "I know now that I couldn't have stopped her reasonably" that I didn't really feel it.  But I felt it *some* which was a lot more than I felt it at first, and *some* felt like a whole lot at that point.  I needed to say it out loud to remind myself, and remind others that it was ok not to flog myself daily for something that yes - maybe I could have stopped, but reasonably I couldn't have.   

Perhaps I'm projecting my memory of the feelings of combined guilt/loss/hopelessness onto him, but it would make sense.  Really HE probably doesn't even really know what he's feeling.  And I think because he's been well spoken usually throughout this, we all tend to have had hopes for him being a more sensitive man than most. 

But maybe in the end he's just a guy who is confused and feeling defensive in the sudden hot-spotlight for something that ultimately he didn't do - which is abduct (or kill) Kyron.

Just my thoughts.

starwynn   I'm sorry you went through such a horrible experience.

I Do believe Kaine is feeling guilty. I just don't think he has really reached that stage of forgiveness even though he states that he has. I think that NRCG is right about the antidepressants. They can have an effect on people in the sense where it suppresses their real feelings.

Do we "know" that Kaine is on antidepressants?  I mean, I could guess that he is considering the horrible situation Kaine is in, but I would only be guessing.  Has anyone seen or read where Kaine states he's on antidepressants?

[Puzzler]

Puzzler, only Kaine has the answer to why he didn't tell Desiree things that he should have considering she is Kyron's mother. It could be just me and I have no idea, but after reading and seeing what Kaine had to say I would imagine she is angrier today then she was yesterday.

Agree: angrier today than yesterday.

Sometimes you can push people just so far before they blow and spill the beans!

[no rose colored glasses]

Puzzler I was only trying to maybe guess why Kaine said some of the things he said, I have never read anything about him being on pills, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. Also, some people just can't express emotions as well as others, I'm one, and it sounds like I'm a callous person when in fact I'm not. Just can't express my words the right way, maybe he has that problem as well, I don't know.

[monchichi]

I'm happy kgw decided to re-air the Kyron Dateline special because they should not have pre-empted it for the game.  It's on tonight.

 

Oops, I guess it's on tomorrow night.

[no rose colored glasses]

Puzzler, only Kaine has the answer to why he didn't tell Desiree things that he should have considering she is Kyron's mother. It could be just me and I have no idea, but after reading and seeing what Kaine had to say I would imagine she is angrier today then she was yesterday.

Agree: angrier today than yesterday.

Sometimes you can push people just so far before they blow and spill the beans!

Knowing how I am my anger would be very bad right now, and I would be very hurt as well. That is why I sure hope Desiree has someone, a therapist, a priest, minister, friend that she can talk too.

[Puzzler]

Puzzler, only Kaine has the answer to why he didn't tell Desiree things that he should have considering she is Kyron's mother. It could be just me and I have no idea, but after reading and seeing what Kaine had to say I would imagine she is angrier today then she was yesterday.

Agree: angrier today than yesterday.

Sometimes you can push people just so far before they blow and spill the beans!

Knowing how I am my anger would be very bad right now, and I would be very hurt as well. That is why I sure hope Desiree has someone, a therapist, a priest, minister, friend that she can talk too.

Agree.  HURT.  Why? Why is it necessary to keep hurting Desiree?  IMO it would have been common sense to give Desiree a head's up on Kaine's court filing.  Or at the very least give her the curtesy of a phone call after the filing and before it hit the news and the public.  Surely, folks (or most folks) can agree that Kyron's mother was due the respect of being informed before such inflammatory information hit the public.

HURT?  You're darned right she's hurt...and that's on top of the unimaginable hurt she's going through with her son being missing.

Why? Why hurt this woman that way? 

[Tracygirl]

JMO but when I hear a man say he does not feel guilt I think he feels the opposite.  But like I said that is JMO. 

That may be, because it would be impossible imo, not to feel some guilt or responsibility.

I don't understand not feeling guilt or responsibility if you ask me. He must have some therapist, wish I could go see him/her because I still have issues from year's and year's ago.
I don't think it is a man thing either. My ex, (I have been mentioning him a lot, ugh) he feels guilt and responsibility for my son having autism, we both do. We have asked ourselves over and over again if there was any way we could have prevented it, did we accidently cause it, have we done enough to help him.... I think that is a normal part of parenting any child. So I don't get where Kaine is coming from, jmo.