Zahra Clare Baker #6 11/4/10 - 11/11/10

[Northern Rose]

Thanks Klaas

Why would Adam adhere to one aspect of aboriginal customs regarding the belongings of the deceased and not adhere to the rituals involving the body of the deceased?

Janet

I seriously doubt he is aboriginal and I further doubt he would follow any aboriginal practices.

I thought there were several articles that stated Adam was a pagan.  If it is true that the goblet and offering is what is on the shelve in the mirror I would think that he would follow pagan rights.  IMO I doubt that aboriginal and/or pagan beliefs would suggest he would not seek medical attention for his daughter if she had a virus, then throw her prosthetic leg beside a road and proceed to further hide her body. 

[klaasend]

Thanks Klaas

Why would Adam adhere to one aspect of aboriginal customs regarding the belongings of the deceased and not adhere to the rituals involving the body of the deceased?

Janet

I seriously doubt he is aboriginal and I further doubt he would follow any aboriginal practices.

I thought there were several articles that stated Adam was a pagan.  If it is true that the goblet and offering is what is on the shelve in the mirror I would think that he would follow pagan rights.  IMO I doubt that aboriginal and/or pagan beliefs would suggest he would not seek medical attention for his daughter if she had a virus, then throw her prosthetic leg beside a road and proceed to further hide her body. 

I didn't realize there was any connection between aboriginal and pagan.  Is there?

[espresso lover]

Klaasend,
I have a few pics/screen captures that are interesting but not sure if they should be posted and not sure what to do about them , would love your advice to this ...thanks

[Northern Rose]

Thanks Klaas

Why would Adam adhere to one aspect of aboriginal customs regarding the belongings of the deceased and not adhere to the rituals involving the body of the deceased?

Janet

I seriously doubt he is aboriginal and I further doubt he would follow any aboriginal practices.

I thought there were several articles that stated Adam was a pagan.  If it is true that the goblet and offering is what is on the shelve in the mirror I would think that he would follow pagan rights.  IMO I doubt that aboriginal and/or pagan beliefs would suggest he would not seek medical attention for his daughter if she had a virus, then throw her prosthetic leg beside a road and proceed to further hide her body. 

I didn't realize there was any connection between aboriginal and pagan.  Is there?

No idea. I have worded what I was trying to say poorly.  Whether Adam follows aboriginal beliefs, or whether he follows pagan beliefs makes no difference as I doubt either have any practices that would have him neglect his daughter to where things are today with the police searching for her remains.

[NCSunny]

Thanks Klaas

Why would Adam adhere to one aspect of aboriginal customs regarding the belongings of the deceased and not adhere to the rituals involving the body of the deceased?

Janet

I seriously doubt he is aboriginal and I further doubt he would follow any aboriginal practices.

I thought there were several articles that stated Adam was a pagan.  If it is true that the goblet and offering is what is on the shelve in the mirror I would think that he would follow pagan rights.  IMO I doubt that aboriginal and/or pagan beliefs would suggest he would not seek medical attention for his daughter if she had a virus, then throw her prosthetic leg beside a road and proceed to further hide her body. 

Northern,  thinking about the goblet and gargoyle on the mantle...i do realise EB considered herself a 'goth' person...and they like that type of spooky, dark stuff...but could those things have been Halloween decorations? 

I remember in a few of the first photos of the home, there were skulls on the wrought iron railing. They were for Halloween, right? 

Dunno, can't sleep...this case...

[Green Eyes]

Thanks Klaas

Why would Adam adhere to one aspect of aboriginal customs regarding the belongings of the deceased and not adhere to the rituals involving the body of the deceased?

Janet

I seriously doubt he is aboriginal and I further doubt he would follow any aboriginal practices.

I thought there were several articles that stated Adam was a pagan.  If it is true that the goblet and offering is what is on the shelve in the mirror I would think that he would follow pagan rights.  IMO I doubt that aboriginal and/or pagan beliefs would suggest he would not seek medical attention for his daughter if she had a virus, then throw her prosthetic leg beside a road and proceed to further hide her body. 

I didn't realize there was any connection between aboriginal and pagan.  Is there?

Klaas as far as I know and with a quick check they are not the same. The aboriginal belief is more a nature belief.

[Northern Rose]

Thanks Klaas

Why would Adam adhere to one aspect of aboriginal customs regarding the belongings of the deceased and not adhere to the rituals involving the body of the deceased?

Janet

I seriously doubt he is aboriginal and I further doubt he would follow any aboriginal practices.

I thought there were several articles that stated Adam was a pagan.  If it is true that the goblet and offering is what is on the shelve in the mirror I would think that he would follow pagan rights.  IMO I doubt that aboriginal and/or pagan beliefs would suggest he would not seek medical attention for his daughter if she had a virus, then throw her prosthetic leg beside a road and proceed to further hide her body. 

Northern,  thinking about the goblet and gargoyle on the mantle...i do realise EB considered herself a 'goth' person...and they like that type of spooky, dark stuff...but could those things have been Halloween decorations? 

I remember in a few of the first photos of the home, there were skulls on the wrought iron railing. They were for Halloween, right? 

Dunno, can't sleep...this case...

Yup, some of the first images of the house had skulls on the railing by the front door.  Never thought that the stuff inside could be part of her halloween decorations.  Could very well b possible.

[Brandi]

 Zahra search moves to 'bone-infested' area
November 11, 2010 - 1:07PM

US police investigating the likely killing of missing Australian girl Zahra Baker say they may have found a new piece of evidence.

They refused to release any information about the potential find, but the announcement came as the search for the body of Wagga Wagga-born Zahra moved to North Carolina's "bone-infested" Gunpowder Creek.

A team of 39 investigators on Wednesday waded through the creek's murky 1.5-metre-deep water and meticulously searched the banks and surrounding land that is known as a site where hunters illegally dump animal carcasses.
Advertisement: Story continues below

To assist the search, a BobCat mower was brought in to trim long grass in the hope of finding clues to the whereabouts of Zahra, 10, who has been missing for more than a month.

The animal bones are complicating the search.

"The area is bone-infested," Tommy Courtner, Caldwell County's Emergency Services director, told the Winston-Salem Journal newspaper.

"We're looking for bags, boxes, bones; anything that can help us."

Zahra's father, Adam Baker, alerted police she was missing on October 9, but police from the Bakers' hometown of Hickory, North Carolina, believe Zahra may have been killed up to a fortnight before then.

They have not ruled out Mr Baker nor his American wife, Elisa Baker, as suspects.

Mrs Baker has been held in custody since October 10, with one charge relating to a fake ransom note police allege she wrote and left on a vehicle outside their Hickory home.

The Bakers met on the internet and two years ago Mr Baker moved to North Carolina with Zahra to be with Mrs Baker.

Zahra had her lower left leg amputated five years ago following a battle with bone cancer. Police found her prosthetic leg in bushland.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/zahra-search-moves-to-boneinfested-area-20101111-17ojf.html

[klaasend]

Klaasend,
I have a few pics/screen captures that are interesting but not sure if they should be posted and not sure what to do about them , would love your advice to this ...thanks

I'll be up a while longer, you can email me at smklaas@hotmail.com.

[klaasend]

Klaasend,
I have a few pics/screen captures that are interesting but not sure if they should be posted and not sure what to do about them , would love your advice to this ...thanks

I'll be up a while longer, you can email me at smklaas@hotmail.com  .

Wanting to add, most photos are OK.  We don't like to post photos of minors not involved in cases and no nudity or porn.  Also, probably not something too gruesome.  Other than that most other photos would be ok.

[espresso lover]

Klaasend,
Email has been sent....Thank you !

[klaasend]

Klaasend,
I have a few pics/screen captures that are interesting but not sure if they should be posted and not sure what to do about them , would love your advice to this ...thanks

Here are the photos/screen caps from I believe Elisa's myspace.  I had seen the pics of Adam with their dog but not the other pic of Zahra with the people:

I blurred out the other kids faces.  This looks like Aaron Young and that side of the family.

[klaasend]

Goodnight all!  Praying that tomorrow is the day they find Zahra! 

[Monkey King]

Monkey King - Isn't that article from WSOCTV.COM and posted here at Scared Monkeys (not authored) by Northern Rose?  The article is copyrighted and it's not supposed to be "rewritten".     Maybe just a notation below it or something if it gets posted over in the timeline thread. 


Your post quoting Northern Rose
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=8837.msg1259403#msg1259403

You are correct, MuffyBee!

Perhaps it could be included in blue with a memo on the bottom as being added in?

 

[Tibrogargan]

Does anyone remember Adam ever saying anything about being aboriginal? They have a new poster at websluths called OzChristian. I will only post part of his post, anyone wanting to know the rest can follow the link. Tibro, do you know anything about the rituals of the aboriginals?

Originally Posted by OzChristian 
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal. It also explains why Zahra's clothes were left behind in the wardrobe after the eviction. During the mourning process, the deceased person's clothes are generally destroyed. They would certainly never be kept as a "keepsake". Death is often referred to as "sorry business" and use of somebody's name after they have died is generally forbidden. As far as mortuary rituals are concerned, this very much depends upon the particular aboriginal nation to which the person belonged. Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118907&page=26

I have read the original post about Adam's possible Aboriginal heritage.  I would like to see some official confirmation of this before it is assumed that this is the case. If true it would be a big mystery to me why he left to live in USA as the welfare and support for our native peoples here is very generous, compared to our usual citizens, and he would have received on going support from our Government for Zahra especially in her condition.

Our aboriginals have many nations also called language groups (or tribes) here and each tribe has their own beliefs and rituals.  If you think of our continent as being the size of the USA you can imagine how many small tribes or groups of our native people were living in so many different areas from our jungles to deserts, and every type of terrain in between, all of them having their own unique customs and beliefs.  They are all a very spiritual people with wonderful nature beliefs and legends, and their afterlife is called the Dreamtime.

Death to them is very respected and many of the tribes bury their dead in sacred burial grounds where their ancestors have also been laid to rest for many hundreds of years.  Other tribes deal with the body in different ways depending more on the local landscape.  No where would there be any disrespect shown to the body.  Sometimes clothing or possessions of the deceased is also buried with them.  Also in some tribes it is forbidden to mention the deceased's name and often their relatives then changed their own names.  Since Christianity converted many of them they are now buried in district cemeteries and sometimes in their own section of these resting places, with only the natives living in their original habitats and responding fully to their tribal customs being buried in the old ways.

Aboriginals avoid viewing any pictures of deceased ancestors and with some of our TV and movie documentaries there is always a warning posted before the programme starts stating that it may contain pictures of since deceased natives.

I hope this helps and I can enlarge on our Aboriginal customs and rituals should anyone wish to learn more.

[Tibrogargan]

Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment.

snipped from quote in my previous post.

This is not correct as my previous post clearly states. 

Also my understanding of "elements" are : earth, wind, fire and air. So burying a body is also returning it to the elements.

[Monkey King]

I really hope when Emily does arrive here, she is in the company of some very compassionate and nurturing family members/friends.

A confrontation with the Bakers will be horrible. 

Better for AB to be in jail- for his sake!

[crazybabyborg]

What kind of dog is their new puppy? It's head looks a little like a Pit Bull to me, but you don't normally crop their ears. Well, I guess they could afford to take care of the dog.   

[Bearlyhere]

Goodnight all!  Praying that tomorrow is the day they find Zahra!  

Thanks, Klaas, for posting those pictures.

Thanks, espresso lover for providing them.

I want to cry looking at Zahra.  Every other child in the picture is being touched or joked with.  SM and Zahra are not touching and she looks so sad.  My heart aches for her.  I am so sorry, Zahra, we do not do a better job of protecting our children.  Your life and history has touched many and opened the eyes of many others.  Thank you for giving your life so that others may live, if that is how it works.  In death, you help others, just as in life.  Rest now, in the arms of the Lord, his Mother, and the angels.  You have plenty touching you now and you have touched others, here on earth, as well.

[Bearlyhere]

Does anyone remember Adam ever saying anything about being aboriginal? They have a new poster at websluths called OzChristian. I will only post part of his post, anyone wanting to know the rest can follow the link. Tibro, do you know anything about the rituals of the aboriginals?

Originally Posted by OzChristian 
I am new to this site and would like to offer what I believe is a new perspective. It is my understanding that Adam Baker either was, or that he claimed to be, of Australian aboriginal descent. When I saw Zahra's photo with the caption referring to "dark child LOL", I interpreted the LOL to mean that she didn't really look aboriginal. It also explains why Zahra's clothes were left behind in the wardrobe after the eviction. During the mourning process, the deceased person's clothes are generally destroyed. They would certainly never be kept as a "keepsake". Death is often referred to as "sorry business" and use of somebody's name after they have died is generally forbidden. As far as mortuary rituals are concerned, this very much depends upon the particular aboriginal nation to which the person belonged. Burial in the ground was never an option. One way or another, the body was offered to the elements, knowing that the deceased is still part of the natural environment.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118907&page=26

I have read the original post about Adam's possible Aboriginal heritage.  I would like to see some official confirmation of this before it is assumed that this is the case. If true it would be a big mystery to me why he left to live in USA as the welfare and support for our native peoples here is very generous, compared to our usual citizens, and he would have received on going support from our Government for Zahra especially in her condition.

Our aboriginals have many nations also called language groups (or tribes) here and each tribe has their own beliefs and rituals.  If you think of our continent as being the size of the USA you can imagine how many small tribes or groups of our native people were living in so many different areas from our jungles to deserts, and every type of terrain in between, all of them having their own unique customs and beliefs.  They are all a very spiritual people with wonderful nature beliefs and legends, and their afterlife is called the Dreamtime.

Death to them is very respected and many of the tribes bury their dead in sacred burial grounds where their ancestors have also been laid to rest for many hundreds of years.  Other tribes deal with the body in different ways depending more on the local landscape.  No where would there be any disrespect shown to the body.  Sometimes clothing or possessions of the deceased is also buried with them.  Also in some tribes it is forbidden to mention the deceased's name and often their relatives then changed their own names.  Since Christianity converted many of them they are now buried in district cemeteries and sometimes in their own section of these resting places, with only the natives living in their original habitats and responding fully to their tribal customs being buried in the old ways.

Aboriginals avoid viewing any pictures of deceased ancestors and with some of our TV and movie documentaries there is always a warning posted before the programme starts stating that it may contain pictures of since deceased natives.

I hope this helps and I can enlarge on our Aboriginal customs and rituals should anyone wish to learn more.

Thanks, Tibro, that was very enlightening.