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Author Topic: Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #851 11/16/10 - 11/20/10  (Read 211206 times)
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FloridaKatz
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« Reply #140 on: November 16, 2010, 11:46:42 PM »

TM - are you having problems pulling up www.awe24.com ?  I haven't been able to access the site most of the day today.

Yes, I'm having problems with it too.  Maybe they're down...I checked over on their twitter page and their last message was 11 hours ago.

Oh good, then it's not just me 

I was on there earlier.  Isn't it 24ora.com ?

No, 2 different sites.  24ora.com is the site where the jawbone was first reported and they have the stock photo of a jawbone that was actually found in Africa.

awe24.com is a different Aruban site and it's been down most of the day today.

oh ok thanks !
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FloridaKatz
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« Reply #141 on: November 16, 2010, 11:49:04 PM »

Hey SMs, been a long time since I've logged on and posted here (actually since I searched for Caylee) but I wanted to get this info on here, since I don't post on any other crime forum.  My husband just had his 2 week mid deployment break from military duty in Afghanistan, and his desire was to spend a week of that in Aruba, searching for clues in Natalee's disappearance.  The 2 of us have done SAR for many years.  The area where this jawbone was found on Friday, we were at the very same spot the day before.  (I have 3 pics if I could figure out how to upload them here).  Here's the interesting part.  During the majority of last week, the west side of Aruba (where the Divi Phoenix is located), has had huge waves wash ashore from a combination of the leftovers from hurricane Tomas, coupled with a storm front that moved in from the south and west off of Venezuela.  The locals we spoke with that had businesses in this area had even told us that their beachside huts and palm umbrellas had been washed away earlier in the week.  about 3 yards south and to the west of this hotel is the march of the Bubuli Bird Sanctuary, and there is a drainage link that goes between the marsh of the sanctuary, under Irausquin Blvd. and drains out into the ocean.  Where it drains into the ocean, there is a huge pile of conch shells, some the size of your head.  When it rains heavy, the march drains into the ocean.  In the opposite, when the tides are high, they push into the drain area which flows back into the sanctuary marsh.  So if Natalee was placed in the march, she could have washed out to sea.  When Tomas and the Venezuela system moved in, the combination of the two could have washed her back to shore.  OR, due to the two storm systems hitting at the same time, if she had been put directly in the ocean, the combination of the two storm systems could have dislodged her, and washed her in.  In one of Joran's confessions, he stated that he had placed her in the Bubali Marsh.  Also, we found know that Joran's house in Aruba is in the Montana (spanish emphasis on the "n"), and this is directly inland by about a mile, mile and a half from where the Divi Phoenix and the location where the jawbone was found.  An easy walk for someone like Joran.  An even easier car ride for his dad to come pick him up.  If in fact this turns out to be Natalee's jaw bone, I hope the local authorities will finally get off their duffs, excavate that area where the conch shells are, and do a radial search of the ocean in this area.  If anyone can tell me how to upload the photos, I'll put them up here.

When you post, you will see ADDITIONAL OPTIONS on the bottom left.  If you click on ADDITIONAL OPTIONS, you will see where you can upload the photo from your PC.

I'd love to see the pics.

ok here goes - trying to upload pics....
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2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #142 on: November 16, 2010, 11:50:02 PM »


I'd like to hear a description of the jaw bone, location found, etc. directly from the tourists that found it, if thats what really happened.  As no one comes forward I start to wonder...

Also, how does it happen that supposedly two Aruban officials accompany the bone to Holland, where they can't do the tests yet because they don't have permission?  WTH is that about?  Who sent the bone and the two officials to the lab in Holland if not the OM/Prosecutor?

These people... I just don't trust any of them.   



I totally understand what you mean, Lifesong.  I've been wondering about the tourists who reportedly found this on the beach.  One report said they picked it up and brought it to the police department.      Can't wrap my mind around it, so I've been quiet, for the time being. 
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R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

SOMEONE KNOWS THE TRUTH  

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FloridaKatz
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« Reply #143 on: November 16, 2010, 11:50:16 PM »

Hey SMs, been a long time since I've logged on and posted here (actually since I searched for Caylee) but I wanted to get this info on here, since I don't post on any other crime forum.  My husband just had his 2 week mid deployment break from military duty in Afghanistan, and his desire was to spend a week of that in Aruba, searching for clues in Natalee's disappearance.  The 2 of us have done SAR for many years.  The area where this jawbone was found on Friday, we were at the very same spot the day before.  (I have 3 pics if I could figure out how to upload them here).  Here's the interesting part.  During the majority of last week, the west side of Aruba (where the Divi Phoenix is located), has had huge waves wash ashore from a combination of the leftovers from hurricane Tomas, coupled with a storm front that moved in from the south and west off of Venezuela.  The locals we spoke with that had businesses in this area had even told us that their beachside huts and palm umbrellas had been washed away earlier in the week.  about 3 yards south and to the west of this hotel is the march of the Bubuli Bird Sanctuary, and there is a drainage link that goes between the marsh of the sanctuary, under Irausquin Blvd. and drains out into the ocean.  Where it drains into the ocean, there is a huge pile of conch shells, some the size of your head.  When it rains heavy, the march drains into the ocean.  In the opposite, when the tides are high, they push into the drain area which flows back into the sanctuary marsh.  So if Natalee was placed in the march, she could have washed out to sea.  When Tomas and the Venezuela system moved in, the combination of the two could have washed her back to shore.  OR, due to the two storm systems hitting at the same time, if she had been put directly in the ocean, the combination of the two storm systems could have dislodged her, and washed her in.  In one of Joran's confessions, he stated that he had placed her in the Bubali Marsh.  Also, we found know that Joran's house in Aruba is in the Montana (spanish emphasis on the "n"), and this is directly inland by about a mile, mile and a half from where the Divi Phoenix and the location where the jawbone was found.  An easy walk for someone like Joran.  An even easier car ride for his dad to come pick him up.  If in fact this turns out to be Natalee's jaw bone, I hope the local authorities will finally get off their duffs, excavate that area where the conch shells are, and do a radial search of the ocean in this area.  If anyone can tell me how to upload the photos, I'll put them up here.

When you post, you will see ADDITIONAL OPTIONS on the bottom left.  If you click on ADDITIONAL OPTIONS, you will see where you can upload the photo from your PC.

I'd love to see the pics.

ok here goes - trying to upload pics....
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FloridaKatz
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« Reply #144 on: November 16, 2010, 11:52:20 PM »


When you post, you will see ADDITIONAL OPTIONS on the bottom left.  If you click on ADDITIONAL OPTIONS, you will see where you can upload the photo from your PC.

I'd love to see the pics.

and here's another one -
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FloridaKatz
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« Reply #145 on: November 16, 2010, 11:55:10 PM »


When you post, you will see ADDITIONAL OPTIONS on the bottom left.  If you click on ADDITIONAL OPTIONS, you will see where you can upload the photo from your PC.

I'd love to see the pics.
[/quote]

The pics that were on NG this evening, from where I took this pic, if you look down to the water and then to the right about 4 yards, you see where the concrete slabs are breaking and falling into the water (I presume used to be some sort of sidewalk or a concrete slab where a beachside business/shack used to be, before the storms last week broke them apart.
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texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #146 on: November 16, 2010, 11:57:02 PM »

Thanks for posting the pics FloridaKatz!   

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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
FloridaKatz
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« Reply #147 on: November 17, 2010, 12:00:32 AM »

Thanks for posting the pics FloridaKatz!   



I'm finding it a bit suspicious, now that I read others posts, in this area, with all the shells washing up, how does one just happen to come across a jawbone.  I stood there in that pile of conch shells for a good 45 minutes (yes, trying to figure out if I could get one past immigration to take it home), and there's no way I would have/could have spotted a jaw bone amongst all the shells.  Unless it washed up just to the north of all these, but those big concrete slabs were just to the north of these, so I find it unlikely, unless high tide was really high Thursday night.  It was Thursday during the day when I took these pics.
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2NJSons_Mom
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« Reply #148 on: November 17, 2010, 12:01:36 AM »

Thanks for posting the pics FloridaKatz!   



I 2nd that, FloridaKatz.  It looks just like after a storm on the Jersey shore.  Loads of shells, etc. 
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R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

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« Reply #149 on: November 17, 2010, 12:04:54 AM »

Thanks for posting the pics FloridaKatz!   



I'm finding it a bit suspicious, now that I read others posts, in this area, with all the shells washing up, how does one just happen to come across a jawbone.  I stood there in that pile of conch shells for a good 45 minutes (yes, trying to figure out if I could get one past immigration to take it home), and there's no way I would have/could have spotted a jaw bone amongst all the shells.  Unless it washed up just to the north of all these, but those big concrete slabs were just to the north of these, so I find it unlikely, unless high tide was really high Thursday night.  It was Thursday during the day when I took these pics.
I was thinking the same thing............ it looked like ALL bones amongst the conch shells in those pics!
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« Reply #150 on: November 17, 2010, 12:05:08 AM »

Thanks for the pics.

I was reading on one of the travel boards.  Someone was due to arrive at the Divi Phoenix.  They were wondering if the beach was roped off/closed for searching as a crime scene.   They obviously don't know Aruban protocol.....unless the exact location of where that bone originated...how could they possibly search and disturb nature?...   
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Scandi
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« Reply #151 on: November 17, 2010, 12:09:07 AM »

Hey SMs, been a long time since I've logged on and posted here (actually since I searched for Caylee) but I wanted to get this info on here, since I don't post on any other crime forum.  My husband just had his 2 week mid deployment break from military duty in Afghanistan, and his desire was to spend a week of that in Aruba, searching for clues in Natalee's disappearance.  The 2 of us have done SAR for many years.  The area where this jawbone was found on Friday, we were at the very same spot the day before.  (I have 3 pics if I could figure out how to upload them here).  Here's the interesting part.  During the majority of last week, the west side of Aruba (where the Divi Phoenix is located), has had huge waves wash ashore from a combination of the leftovers from hurricane Tomas, coupled with a storm front that moved in from the south and west off of Venezuela.  The locals we spoke with that had businesses in this area had even told us that their beachside huts and palm umbrellas had been washed away earlier in the week.  about 3 yards south and to the west of this hotel is the march of the Bubuli Bird Sanctuary, and there is a drainage link that goes between the marsh of the sanctuary, under Irausquin Blvd. and drains out into the ocean.  Where it drains into the ocean, there is a huge pile of conch shells, some the size of your head.  When it rains heavy, the march drains into the ocean.  In the opposite, when the tides are high, they push into the drain area which flows back into the sanctuary marsh.  So if Natalee was placed in the march, she could have washed out to sea.  When Tomas and the Venezuela system moved in, the combination of the two could have washed her back to shore.  OR, due to the two storm systems hitting at the same time, if she had been put directly in the ocean, the combination of the two storm systems could have dislodged her, and washed her in.  In one of Joran's confessions, he stated that he had placed her in the Bubali Marsh.  Also, we found know that Joran's house in Aruba is in the Montana (spanish emphasis on the "n"), and this is directly inland by about a mile, mile and a half from where the Divi Phoenix and the location where the jawbone was found.  An easy walk for someone like Joran.  An even easier car ride for his dad to come pick him up.  If in fact this turns out to be Natalee's jaw bone, I hope the local authorities will finally get off their duffs, excavate that area where the conch shells are, and do a radial search of the ocean in this area.  If anyone can tell me how to upload the photos, I'll put them up here.

Thanks FloridaKatz!  Interesting!

If Natalee was put in Bubali Plas at all, I don't think they left her there.  I think they may have worried that she would be found when they figured out rather quickly that her parents meant business, and moved her where she wouldn't be found...and wouldn't float back to shore.

More than likely wrapped in a tarp, and placed in a crab trap 1-2 miles out in about 90 feet of water.

JMO

Hi Texasmom,  That is close to what Sonar Captain Gene Ralston thought too.  He sent me a mail saying he believed she was put in a weighted trap and dropped out by a coral reef where the crabs breed. 

Thanks to everyone for the great posts.  I could hardly wait to get here and see what y'all had to say.  Let it be Natalee.  I think her Mom is near a breaking point after all these years with everything that has happened.  xox
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FloridaKatz
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« Reply #152 on: November 17, 2010, 12:13:59 AM »

Thanks for the pics.

I was reading on one of the travel boards.  Someone was due to arrive at the Divi Phoenix.  They were wondering if the beach was roped off/closed for searching as a crime scene.   They obviously don't know Aruban protocol.....unless the exact location of where that bone originated...how could they possibly search and disturb nature?...   

I doubt it.  The only thing I saw the local cops doing was sitting around on ATVs, checking out the pretty young girls as they walked by during the day, and on Friday night, they would just sit there and watch the young crowd drive their sooped up vehicles up and down Irausquin, going way too fast, and with the music thumping way too loud.  And well, they just turn their heads the other way if they see something untoward in downtown Oranjestad.  The locals call it "One Happy Island".  I call it "One Dirty Island".  Both in looks and the legal system   
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cajun miracle
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« Reply #153 on: November 17, 2010, 12:18:30 AM »

Thanks for the pics.

I was reading on one of the travel boards.  Someone was due to arrive at the Divi Phoenix.  They were wondering if the beach was roped off/closed for searching as a crime scene.   They obviously don't know Aruban protocol.....unless the exact location of where that bone originated...how could they possibly search and disturb nature?...   

I doubt it.  The only thing I saw the local cops doing was sitting around on ATVs, checking out the pretty young girls as they walked by during the day, and on Friday night, they would just sit there and watch the young crowd drive their sooped up vehicles up and down Irausquin, going way too fast, and with the music thumping way too loud.  And well, they just turn their heads the other way if they see something untoward in downtown Oranjestad.  The locals call it "One Happy Island".  I call it "One Dirty Island".  Both in looks and the legal system   


Thanks for the great pictures. It sure looks like tons of shells and bones.
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klaasend
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« Reply #154 on: November 17, 2010, 12:22:27 AM »

FloridaKatz - I uploaded your photos to photobucket and resized them so they are easier to see in the forum



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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #155 on: November 17, 2010, 12:35:42 AM »

NANCY GRACE
Jawbone Found in Aruba, Likely to be White Female
Aired November 16, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/16/ng.01.html
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #156 on: November 17, 2010, 12:39:47 AM »

Hey SMs, been a long time since I've logged on and posted here (actually since I searched for Caylee) but I wanted to get this info on here, since I don't post on any other crime forum.  My husband just had his 2 week mid deployment break from military duty in Afghanistan, and his desire was to spend a week of that in Aruba, searching for clues in Natalee's disappearance.  The 2 of us have done SAR for many years.  The area where this jawbone was found on Friday, we were at the very same spot the day before.  (I have 3 pics if I could figure out how to upload them here).  Here's the interesting part.  During the majority of last week, the west side of Aruba (where the Divi Phoenix is located), has had huge waves wash ashore from a combination of the leftovers from hurricane Tomas, coupled with a storm front that moved in from the south and west off of Venezuela.  The locals we spoke with that had businesses in this area had even told us that their beachside huts and palm umbrellas had been washed away earlier in the week.  about 3 yards south and to the west of this hotel is the march of the Bubuli Bird Sanctuary, and there is a drainage link that goes between the marsh of the sanctuary, under Irausquin Blvd. and drains out into the ocean.  Where it drains into the ocean, there is a huge pile of conch shells, some the size of your head.  When it rains heavy, the march drains into the ocean.  In the opposite, when the tides are high, they push into the drain area which flows back into the sanctuary marsh.  So if Natalee was placed in the march, she could have washed out to sea.  When Tomas and the Venezuela system moved in, the combination of the two could have washed her back to shore.  OR, due to the two storm systems hitting at the same time, if she had been put directly in the ocean, the combination of the two storm systems could have dislodged her, and washed her in.  In one of Joran's confessions, he stated that he had placed her in the Bubali Marsh.  Also, we found know that Joran's house in Aruba is in the Montana (spanish emphasis on the "n"), and this is directly inland by about a mile, mile and a half from where the Divi Phoenix and the location where the jawbone was found.  An easy walk for someone like Joran.  An even easier car ride for his dad to come pick him up.  If in fact this turns out to be Natalee's jaw bone, I hope the local authorities will finally get off their duffs, excavate that area where the conch shells are, and do a radial search of the ocean in this area.  If anyone can tell me how to upload the photos, I'll put them up here.

Thanks FloridaKatz!  Interesting!

If Natalee was put in Bubali Plas at all, I don't think they left her there.  I think they may have worried that she would be found when they figured out rather quickly that her parents meant business, and moved her where she wouldn't be found...and wouldn't float back to shore.

More than likely wrapped in a tarp, and placed in a crab trap 1-2 miles out in about 90 feet of water.

JMO

Hi Texasmom,  That is close to what Sonar Captain Gene Ralston thought too.  He sent me a mail saying he believed she was put in a weighted trap and dropped out by a coral reef where the crabs breed. 

Thanks to everyone for the great posts.  I could hardly wait to get here and see what y'all had to say.  Let it be Natalee.  I think her Mom is near a breaking point after all these years with everything that has happened.  xox

Great to see you Scandi!   

I hope it's her too, however it happened...and I hope they'll send all they have of her back to her family for a proper burial.  It's never too late to do the right thing.

Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
texasmom
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #157 on: November 17, 2010, 12:43:37 AM »

Thanks for posting the pics FloridaKatz!   



I'm finding it a bit suspicious, now that I read others posts, in this area, with all the shells washing up, how does one just happen to come across a jawbone.  I stood there in that pile of conch shells for a good 45 minutes (yes, trying to figure out if I could get one past immigration to take it home), and there's no way I would have/could have spotted a jaw bone amongst all the shells.  Unless it washed up just to the north of all these, but those big concrete slabs were just to the north of these, so I find it unlikely, unless high tide was really high Thursday night.  It was Thursday during the day when I took these pics.

Yes, looking at your pictures I was thinking the same. 

Logged

I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #158 on: November 17, 2010, 12:44:23 AM »

Bottom Line

NANCY GRACE
Jawbone Found in Aruba, Likely to be White Female
Aired November 16, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET


MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION:  ... they`ve got blood on their hands in Aruba because another young lady died because they failed to take the actions that were necessary.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/16/ng.01.html

 
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

A person of integrity expects to be believed and when hes not, he lets time prove him right. -unknown
FloridaKatz
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« Reply #159 on: November 17, 2010, 12:47:08 AM »

FloridaKatz - I uploaded your photos to photobucket and resized them so they are easier to see in the forum


Cool., thanks Klaas !  Me not so "techy" !!!
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Praying for Natalee's return.............
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