Natalee Holloway Case Discussion #851 11/16/10 - 11/20/10

[Tylergal]

   sandy leiva  long time no see 

Hi Nut and all other monkeys who are checking in for info. Ive been in the rafters and reading daily just havent posted. But i do wonder hat is the significance of the 3 musketeers bar Beth gave to Joran at Castro Castro prison anyone have ideas? I pray Beth gets some closure soon, ill be here in the rafters till i have something more to write...sl

Joran, Paulus and Anita
Joran, the kowpunch boys.

[carpe noctem]

God Bless all of Natalee`s family through this. Keep them strong!

It would be nice if it happened today on the 18th day of November.

Natalee was 18, and so it would be fitting.

    Justice for Natalee Ann

 

 
      pray  for  a   m i r a c l e !

[Tylergal]

So when JQK went to Aruba to speak to Joran, when he was trying to extort Beth, he ate Milky Way and coke.  Beth brought that for him in Castro Castro.  IMO, it was more of an in your face than nice gesture 

You are absolutely right about that.  I totally agree.  I was not aware that was what he had when he was trying to extort the money.  No need for words when she did that; she was sending him a message indeed.

[jjayinthemorning]

If the bone was planted then it had to have been in a place where it was retrieved... like the van der Sloots yard.
If the bone came from the crab trap, which the DJ arranged, then the storm blew it in like Lacy Peterson finally washed up on shore.
If Natalee went for a swim then the rest of her bones would be very close to the jaw bone.

Alot of the speculation I see on here comes from the stories Joran made up after the fact. He knew the bird sanctuary was just that, a sanctuary where no one could search because it was protected, he was throwing the police off track and wasting LE efforts. The report of the boat operator who helped came from another source IIRC. There was a witness to that... thus pointing to the crab trap.

Nothing Joran said can be taken seriously. As we've seen in the Stephany case, he lies, a tiny bit of truth and then the rest is fabricated. He leaves out the truth which is locked safely in his head. You would think by now that we would have a drug to extract the truth.

Anyway, crabtrap, DJ, rest of the bones are in the bottom of the ocean waiting for mother nature to reveal.

Edit:  JJ, Natalee's name is spelled with two e's at the end of her name, not ie as you have been spelling it.  I've edited the last couple of your posts that have misspelled her name and I will edit each and every victim's name I find misspelled in this forum, because I feel their name is important.  As far as other typos in general, I don't really care, since I'm most interested in content.  But please, please spell Natalee's and other victims names correctly.  MuffyBee

[jjayinthemorning]

One more thing. If Aruba does get jurisdiction I believe they will do the right thing to clear their good name and make peace with tourism.

[Nut44x4]

From last night 11.17.10  Transcript  NG
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/17/ng.01.html

imo, the whole thing isn't worth posting. I'll let you guys decide which, if any parts to post....

[Bearlyhere]

Bearlyhere, BoxerDawg, PJ, carpe noctem and 10 Guests are viewing this topic

 

[can]

God Bless all of Natalee`s family through this. Keep them strong!

It would be nice if it happened today on the 18th day of November.

Natalee was 18, and so it would be fitting.

    Justice for Natalee Ann

 

 
      pray  for  a   m i r a c l e !

 

[PJ]

Bearlyhere, BoxerDawg, PJ, carpe noctem and 10 Guests are viewing this topic

 

[Nut44x4]

Nut44x4 and 9 Guests are viewing this topic. 

[texasmom]

With no extradition treaty, Peru does not have to release Joran to Aruba.  Peru will try him, if he isn't already dead by his hand, or others, he will be convicted.  What I wonder if he then  is to serve the sentence for Stephanie's death before he is release to either US or Aruba for prosecution.

I hope you are right AZSunny.  I have a terrible feeling about everything.

Janet

AZ Sunny is right on this one.  If there is no extradition treaty, then Peru can do what they damn well please.  My thought is that Stephany's family may be willing to have him extradited to Alabama to face the charges of extortion and there is a possibility so I have been told that (lots of loops to jump through) but Joran could be tried in Alabama for Natalee's death.  It has to do with international law that Alabama partakes in, that some states in the USA do not.  It was more than my brain could take on a day when we had a friend dying in CCU from a horrific accident and lots of legal beagles talking, so I just did not grasp the whole account. 

If that were to occur, Anita would join Paulus as Alabama, unlike Aruba or Peru, has the death penalty but that would also free Anita of any problems in the future.  She might like his disappearance from the face of the earth better.  Joran is going to face hell coming and going in Peru because one day the funds will run out and he will left to the mercy of the street thugs in prison, which he will not, without the greenback, be able to survive.   

I'm glad you mentioned that Tylergal!  I started to last night, I know it's been discussed here more than once.  Found this, and it may be what I'm remembering.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=printpage;topic=2432.0

Karmaroundup and Janet's posts:

Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 2, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.

Art Wood
DANA PRETZER
July 2, 2006 - Part 1
July 8, 2006 - Part 2

http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=07

Art:

The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an american citizen there.

http://www.internationalextradition.com/netherlands_bi.htm
When the FBI Seeks Extradition
BILATERAL EXTRADITION TREATIES
NETHERLANDS

<snipped>

SCHEDULE OF OFFENSES

1. Murder; assault with intent to commit murder.

2. Manslaughter.

3. Malicious wounding; inflicting grievous bodily harm.

4. Arson.

5. Rape; indecent assault; incest; bigamy.

6. Unlawful sexual acts with or upon children under the age specified by the laws of both the Requesting and Requested States.

7. Wilful abandonment of a minor or other dependent person when the life of that minor or that dependent person is or is likely to be injured or endangered.

8. Kidnapping; abduction; false imprisonment.

9. Robbery; burglary; larceny; embezzlement.

10. Fraud, including obtaining property, money or valuable securities by false pretenses, deceit, falsehood, or other fraudulent means.

11. Bribery, including soliciting, offering [*27] and accepting.

12. Extortion.

13. Receiving, possessing or transporting anything of value knowing it to have been unlawfully obtained.

14. Offenses relating to criminal breach of trust.

15. An offense against the laws relating to counterfeiting and forgery; including the forging of seals, trademarks, documents, or use of such forgeries.

16. An offense against the laws relating to international transfers of funds.

17. An offense against the laws relating to importation, exportation or transit of goods, articles, or merchandise, including violations of the customs laws.

18. Offenses relating to slavery or the illegal transporting of persons.

19. Offenses against the laws relating to bankruptcy.

20. Offenses against the laws relating to prohibition of private monopoly or unfair trade practices.

21. Perjury; subornation of perjury; making a false statement to a government agency or official.

22. Offenses relating to wilful evasion of taxes and duties.

23. Any act or omission intended or likely to: (a) endanger the safety of an aircraft in flight or of any person on board such aircraft; or (b) destroy or render any aircraft incapable of flight.

24. Any unlawful seizure or exercise of control [*28] of an aircraft in flight by force or violence, or by threat of force or violence, or by any other form of intimidation.

25. Any unlawful act or omission intended or that is likely to endanger the safety of any person in a railway train or in any vessel or other means of transportation.

26. Piracy, mutiny, or any mutinous act committed on board a vessel.

27. Malicious damage to property.

28. Offenses against the laws relating to the traffic in, or the possession, production or manufacture of narcotic drugs, cannabis, psychotropic drugs, cocaine and its derivatives, and other dangerous drugs and chemicals.

29. Offenses against laws relating to the poisonous chemicals or substances injurious to health.

30. Offenses against the laws relating to firearms, ammunition, explosives, incendiary devices or nuclear materials.

31. Offenses against the laws relating to the abuse of official authority.

32. Offenses against the laws relating to obstruction of justice.

33. Offenses relating to securities and commodities.

34. Facilitating or permitting the escape of a person from custody.

35. Incitements to violence.

36. Any other act for which extradition may be granted in accordance with the laws [*29] of both Contracting Parties.

[texasmom]

God Bless all of Natalee`s family through this. Keep them strong!

It would be nice if it happened today on the 18th day of November.

Natalee was 18, and so it would be fitting.

    Justice for Natalee Ann

 

 
      pray  for  a   m i r a c l e !

 

[texasmom]

Nut44x4 and 9 Guests are viewing this topic. 

I was here kinda sorta!   

[Titch]

With no extradition treaty, Peru does not have to release Joran to Aruba.  Peru will try him, if he isn't already dead by his hand, or others, he will be convicted.  What I wonder if he then  is to serve the sentence for Stephanie's death before he is release to either US or Aruba for prosecution.

I hope you are right AZSunny.  I have a terrible feeling about everything.

Janet

AZ Sunny is right on this one.  If there is no extradition treaty, then Peru can do what they damn well please.  My thought is that Stephany's family may be willing to have him extradited to Alabama to face the charges of extortion and there is a possibility so I have been told that (lots of loops to jump through) but Joran could be tried in Alabama for Natalee's death.  It has to do with international law that Alabama partakes in, that some states in the USA do not.  It was more than my brain could take on a day when we had a friend dying in CCU from a horrific accident and lots of legal beagles talking, so I just did not grasp the whole account. 

If that were to occur, Anita would join Paulus as Alabama, unlike Aruba or Peru, has the death penalty but that would also free Anita of any problems in the future.  She might like his disappearance from the face of the earth better.  Joran is going to face hell coming and going in Peru because one day the funds will run out and he will left to the mercy of the street thugs in prison, which he will not, without the greenback, be able to survive.   

I'm glad you mentioned that Tylergal!  I started to last night, I know it's been discussed here more than once.  Found this, and it may be what I'm remembering.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?action=printpage;topic=2432.0

Karmaroundup and Janet's posts:

Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 2, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.

Art Wood
DANA PRETZER
July 2, 2006 - Part 1
July 8, 2006 - Part 2

http://sundaynightsatellite.libsyn.com/index.php?post_year=2006&post_month=07

Art:

The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an american citizen there.

http://www.internationalextradition.com/netherlands_bi.htm
When the FBI Seeks Extradition
BILATERAL EXTRADITION TREATIES
NETHERLANDS

<snipped>

SCHEDULE OF OFFENSES

1. Murder; assault with intent to commit murder.

2. Manslaughter.

3. Malicious wounding; inflicting grievous bodily harm.

4. Arson.

5. Rape; indecent assault; incest; bigamy.

6. Unlawful sexual acts with or upon children under the age specified by the laws of both the Requesting and Requested States.

7. Wilful abandonment of a minor or other dependent person when the life of that minor or that dependent person is or is likely to be injured or endangered.

8. Kidnapping; abduction; false imprisonment.

9. Robbery; burglary; larceny; embezzlement.

10. Fraud, including obtaining property, money or valuable securities by false pretenses, deceit, falsehood, or other fraudulent means.

11. Bribery, including soliciting, offering [*27] and accepting.

12. Extortion.

13. Receiving, possessing or transporting anything of value knowing it to have been unlawfully obtained.

14. Offenses relating to criminal breach of trust.

15. An offense against the laws relating to counterfeiting and forgery; including the forging of seals, trademarks, documents, or use of such forgeries.

16. An offense against the laws relating to international transfers of funds.

17. An offense against the laws relating to importation, exportation or transit of goods, articles, or merchandise, including violations of the customs laws.

18. Offenses relating to slavery or the illegal transporting of persons.

19. Offenses against the laws relating to bankruptcy.

20. Offenses against the laws relating to prohibition of private monopoly or unfair trade practices.

21. Perjury; subornation of perjury; making a false statement to a government agency or official.

22. Offenses relating to wilful evasion of taxes and duties.

23. Any act or omission intended or likely to: (a) endanger the safety of an aircraft in flight or of any person on board such aircraft; or (b) destroy or render any aircraft incapable of flight.

24. Any unlawful seizure or exercise of control [*28] of an aircraft in flight by force or violence, or by threat of force or violence, or by any other form of intimidation.

25. Any unlawful act or omission intended or that is likely to endanger the safety of any person in a railway train or in any vessel or other means of transportation.

26. Piracy, mutiny, or any mutinous act committed on board a vessel.

27. Malicious damage to property.

28. Offenses against the laws relating to the traffic in, or the possession, production or manufacture of narcotic drugs, cannabis, psychotropic drugs, cocaine and its derivatives, and other dangerous drugs and chemicals.

29. Offenses against laws relating to the poisonous chemicals or substances injurious to health.

30. Offenses against the laws relating to firearms, ammunition, explosives, incendiary devices or nuclear materials.

31. Offenses against the laws relating to the abuse of official authority.

32. Offenses against the laws relating to obstruction of justice.

33. Offenses relating to securities and commodities.

34. Facilitating or permitting the escape of a person from custody.

35. Incitements to violence.

36. Any other act for which extradition may be granted in accordance with the laws [*29] of both Contracting Parties.

Thank you so much Tylergal & AZsunny. I must have been confused on matters handled at The Hague. You see, I was thinking along these lines... Since the USA has an extradition treaty with Peru, then we could extradite him as the crime involving extortion occurred first...however the matter would be heard in The Hague. Since The Hague is in The Netherlands, I was thinking they could end up keeping him bc the crime against Natalee happened in Aruba, and Aruba is part of The Netherlands. I remember there was another young woman that had gone missing years ago, before Natalee went missing. For some reason I thought there was implication of Urine. I must be really confused. I sure hope he NEVER leaves Castro Castro and dies in Peru. But will that really happen? He's such a damn schemer. I forget, what is the duration of time he may spend in prison if convicted on Stephany's murder? Is it death or life unlimited, or is there a limitation like in Aruba where life cannot exceed more than 20 years? If he ends up being extradited here, could he serve a sentence here then be extradited back to Peru to serve a subsequent sentence, therefore he may never even get out of the prison system? Or even visa versa - Peru then Here in the USA?

Thanks so much for your help and knowledge.

Titch

[MuffyBee]

Who said or tested the found object and said it was a small white female. Isn't that beyond their capabilites on the rock? I am trying to not get excited. Too many other times.

I agree. I'm not sure that you could find a forensic anthropologist in every university here in America. Unless someone is on Indian dig there for the last 5 years. So what big find is in Aruba that would keep an anthropologist there?  Every time they find anything with a bone we have an instant expert there. If they do have a resident, name them and their credentials or at least why they never leave the island. So all anthropologists just spread out across every island in the Caribbean?

Anita fancies herself an anthropologist and Paulus a judge, although neither is either.

   Hi Tyler, I hope you're well.  It's good to hear from you.   

[wreck]

Maybe today's the day!! 

[klaasend]

Thank you Muffy!

[Lisa in MD]

   sandy leiva  long time no see 

Hi Nut and all other monkeys who are checking in for info. Ive been in the rafters and reading daily just havent posted. But i do wonder hat is the significance of the 3 musketeers bar Beth gave to Joran at Castro Castro prison anyone have ideas? I pray Beth gets some closure soon, ill be here in the rafters till i have something more to write...sl

JOHN KELLY: "How you doing?"  He's covered with sweat.  He apparently walked from his house to get there.  And, you know, I just told him to have a seat. Gave him a Diet Coke.  We actually split a Three Musketeers. The one thing I did at the very beginning was show him the $10,000 cash.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37650865/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/page/5/




3 Musketeers -  Joran, Deepak, Satish ??

Just a play on words....but I like the "Split" 3 Musketeers symbolism...
It's over for urine and k2's case against Dr Phil is coming to an unfavorable ending for the 3 Musketeers

On NG - Beth says something like, Joran do you know the significance of the Three Musketeers?  He said, I don’t know is that something I should know? 

JMO – The Three Musketeers - Joran, Deepak, Satish a subliminal mind message to make Joran think “All for One and One for All” yet the Kalpoes walk free while he alone is behind bars. 

I think this was initiated by JQK when he met with Joran specifically to subliminally make him think about how the Kalpoes have slipped out of sight and he is seemingly alone in this.

[klaasend]

Lisa - I agree 

[Lisa in MD]

Larry King Live June 18, 2010
Aruban authorities ask Natalee Holloway's father to delay search
Posted: 07:53 AM ET

 Aruban authorities are urging Natalee Holloway's father, Dave Holloway, to delay volunteer search efforts in her disappearance until police get better information on the case from Peruvian investigators who have spoken to Joran van der Sloot, prosecutor Peter Blanken said.

Police do not want their investigation jeopardized or possible evidence contaminated in the Bubali Bird Sanctuary, a swamp area where Joran once said he dumped Holloway's body, Blanken said. Aruban authorities wish to search a more focused area once they receive more information from van der Sloot and his laptop, which may include files linking him to the Holloway disappearance.

Earlier, Blanken said investigators from Aruba would not be able to question van der Sloot until Peruvian authorities finish their probe of the May 30 slaying of Stephany Flores. The formalities of Peruvian law also will determine the time frame, the prosecutor said.

Aruban and Peruvian authorities agreed to "help each other" in the Flores case.   
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the mandible was planted, I think this was planned long before Beth’s Visit to Peru.   I think they were already considering it when this article appeared with the end result of  “make this and the Holloways/ Twittys go away”.  Aruba knows they will continue to return to that island until Natalee is found or Hell freezes over.  Aruba has taken so many hits and sustained some major damage to the islands reputation and  economy over this that surely by now they realize it is in their best interest to find a way to resolve it. Ie… plant a bone fragment.

I am in total support of Beth but I really feel a lot of the time it is overlooked that Dave Holloway has stood in there ever bit as well. I am not saying anyone here doesn’t give him enough credit.  His approach is different and it was good between the two of them to have two plans of attack.

I hear if the right one doesn’t get you the left one will!